The Unitarian belief that Jesus is not God causes those who offer worship to the Father's Throne (where Jesus sits) to be guilty of idolatry.

[101G]

@TomL
to clearly understand the Portion or the EQUAL SHARE of God, (the Spirit) in flesh. see the Greek term "ANOTHER" in G243 "ALLOS". listen,, again. G243, Allos, "Allos expresses a numerical difference and denotes another of the same sort". now look up the term "SORT".

G243 Allos/Another is Opposite of G2087 heteros/Another "heteros expresses a qualitative difference and denotes "another" of a different sort."

know the different between the two definitions.... then one can understand the real meaning of H259 ECHAD.

101G.

 

[TomL]

You have not shown an echad of spirit would be different

BTW christ had flesh and bone

@TomL
to clearly understand the Portion or the EQUAL SHARE of God, (the Spirit) in flesh. see the Greek term "ANOTHER" in G243 "ALLOS". listen,, again. G243, Allos, "Allos expresses a numerical difference and denotes another of the same sort". now look up the term "SORT".

G243 Allos/Another is Opposite of G2087 heteros/Another "heteros expresses a qualitative difference and denotes "another" of a different sort."

know the different between the two definitions.... then one can understand the real meaning of H259 ECHAD.

101G.

Same sort not a numerical identity

Your own evidence refutes you

 

[TomL]

Oh my, did you not read? Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:" form is Spirit... follow. and the Spirit is shared.... how, the root of Form is G3313 μέρος meros (me'-ros) n.1. a portion (i.e. an amount allotted, a part of something). and another word for portion is "SHARE. this can be found at https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/another-word-for/portion.html under " A part of something divided between people", when used as a NOUN..... the very first word, "SHARE".

101G.

Morphe is not Meros

nor is Meros the root of Morphe

Morphon however is

Did you just pluck Meros from thin air?

 

[Studyman]

the seed that "BECAME?" .... was from his Father? are you speaking biological, yes or no? if biological nonsense. now explain the "SEED".

101G.

It is written that Jesus was a child born of a woman who was a virgin. I believe it was God who by His Power, caused Mary to conceive. I believe God is in Heaven, therefore Jesus came from the Father, who was in heaven, Hence, Jesus was from heaven.

Jesus was a biological male and came to us as Flesh and Blood. Some believe this is nonsense, I am not one who does.

 

[101G]

It is written that Jesus was a child born of a woman who was a virgin. I

first mistake, Jesus is never born, the Christ is born.

I believe it was God who by His Power, caused Mary to conceive.

the Holy Spirit, see Matthews 1:20.

I believe God is in Heaven, therefore Jesus came from the Father, who was in heaven, Hence, Jesus was from heaven.

God in Heaven? (smile), earth too and everywhere else. listen, Jeremiah 23:23 "Am I a God at hand, saith the LORD, and not a God afar off?" Jeremiah 23:24 "Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD."
now the Son,
John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." while on earth in flesh, and talking to Nicodemus he was in heaven at the same time.... (smile).

Jesus was a biological male and came to us as Flesh and Blood. Some believe this is nonsense, I am not one who does.

ONE QUESTION, is the Son of man who came from heaven..... is he biological? yes or no...... (smile).

101G.

 

[Peterlag]

The blind man was recorded, when translated to English, as saying "I am he", not "I Am!". Do you see the difference?

(John 9:9) Some said, This is he. Others said, He is like him. He said, I am he.

The Bible proves that my point stands.

It's impossible for the Bible to prove your point because Jesus is not God and that's why it's not taught anywhere in the Bible. All you guys have are little words or have sentences and they are scattered all over the Bible these little one or two words. And you call that a Bible teaching.

 

[Peterlag]

Clue me in, Peter. Who is "we"?

Cluing you in on the following verse. The trinity folks look at the verse and see God came in the flesh. We (those like me who are not with the trinity camp) see Jesus came in the flesh. The trinity folks see us (those like me) into idolatry because we do not worship the right God. We (the non trinity folks) think the same of the trinity people.

John 4:3
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

 

[Peterlag]

Invite Richard to join the forum and join this discussion. I'm confident @synergy can address all his concerns and any dissent Richard might broach. Otherwise, it's probably best you speak for yourself and not use third-party anecdotal reports to rag on Trinitarians and insinuate they are idol worshippers.

Just saying

There are thousands of Bible scholars who do not believe the trinity. Are you saying I can't quote them? That I can only quote myself?

 

[Runningman]

Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit. Jesus had the Holy Spirit with Him and in Him from the conception in Mary's womb. This is comparable to you having both your mother and father's DNA in you. Jesus had both His mothers and Fathers DNA in Him.

Jesus was made without a male partner when the word became flesh, but no such mention of Jesus having the Holy Spirit until the water baptism. No such mention of having done any miracles until after that either, in the canonized Bible. There are some gnostic gospels that mention Jesus doing miracles as a kid. I don’t know if you are referring to those or not.

 

[Runningman]

you ERROR, listen, Matthew 1:23 "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us." now OT, Isaiah 35:4 "Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you." who came? GOD.

second ERROR, the son of God ... flesh bone and blood came out of Mary. Son of Man, came from above.... (smile). please know the difference. ... ok

101G.

How is that an error based on the definition of the name Immanuel? How about based on the definition of Yeshuah, which means “YHWH is salvation?”

Why do you make a distinction between Son of Man and Jesus being a human? Did you know son of man is used to refer to humans? Who is the son of God to you?

P.s. are you a modalist?

 

[civic]

Jesus was made without a male partner when the word became flesh, but no such mention of Jesus having the Holy Spirit until the water baptism. No such mention of having done any miracles until after that either, in the canonized Bible.

You have an argument from silence as your position, not good.

 

[JoshebB]

We (those like me who are not with the trinity camp)...

And who is that "camp"? Please do not delay with a forthcoming answer. Are you Unitarian, JW, Oneness Pentecostal, modalist? What?

There are thousands of Bible scholars who do not believe the trinity. Are you saying I can't quote them? That I can only quote myself?

Argument ad populum is a fallacious argument, one that indicates a poster is thinking and writing from the flesh, not the Spirit. God never teaches his people to argue fallaciously. Post #148 is also non sequitur. I suggested Richard be invited to the discussion and you speak for yourself rather than post an anecdotal report that no one can verify or engage except through a mediator who has already committed a number of logical fallacies. Start over.


Who is the "we" to which you are referring? Non-trins are not all the same.

 

[Runningman]

You have an argument from silence as your position, not good.

Jesus not having a human father is an argument from silence? The “became” flesh. Revelation 3:14 says Jesus is the first of God’s creation. Colossians 1:15 says Jesus is a creature. Read the Bible.

 

[101G]

How is that an error based on the definition of the name Immanuel? How about based on the definition of Yeshuah, which means “YHWH is salvation?”

Why do you make a distinction between Son of Man and Jesus being a human? Did you know son of man is used to refer to humans? Who is the son of God to you?

P.s. are you a modalist?

A. God with us? HOW, by dwelling in flesh and blood as we. B. Son of man in reference (only) and is not....the Son of Man who is the Spirit, son of God is flesh bone and blood. son of Man came from heaven, (where no blood man can enter). Son of God, (flesh bone and blood came out of Mary). understand now? C. 101G is NOT a Modalist....

101G

 

[civic]

Jesus not having a human father is an argument from silence? The “became” flesh. Revelation 3:14 says Jesus is the first of God’s creation. Colossians 1:15 says Jesus is a creature. Read the Bible.

No your argument about the Holy Spirit is one from silence. Try and follow the argument instead of diverting it.

 

[101G]

Jesus not having a human father is an argument from silence? The “became” flesh. Revelation 3:14 says Jesus is the first of God’s creation. Colossians 1:15 says Jesus is a creature. Read the Bible.

Revelation 3:14 "And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;"
YOU made a big blunder, the FIRST of God creation. is not God the First of his Creation in Genesis 1:1? listen, Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."
Beginning: H7225 רֵאשִׁית re'shiyth (ray-sheeth') n-f.
1. the first, in place, time, order or rank.
2. (specifically) a firstfruit.
[from the same as H7218]
KJV: beginning, chief(-est), first(-fruits, part, time), principal thing.
Root(s): H7218
now this, Colossians 1:15 "Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:" FROM THE DEAD. Colossians 1:18 "And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence."

preeminence: G4409 πρωτεύω proteuo (prō-tev'-ō) v.
to be first (in rank or influence).
[from G4413]
KJV: have the preeminence
Root(s): G4413

not a creation but the "FIRST" in the NEW CREATION from the DEAD.

101G.

 

[Peterlag]

And who is that "camp"? Please do not delay with a forthcoming answer. Are you Unitarian, JW, Oneness Pentecostal, modalist? What?

Argument ad populum is a fallacious argument, one that indicates a poster is thinking and writing from the flesh, not the Spirit. God never teaches his people to argue fallaciously. Post #148 is also non sequitur. I suggested Richard be invited to the discussion and you speak for yourself rather than post an anecdotal report that no one can verify or engage except through a mediator who has already committed a number of logical fallacies. Start over.


Who is the "we" to which you are referring? Non-trins are not all the same.

Since Richard is not here and since you want me to speak for myself. Then let's do that. Here's from my very own book showing Jesus is not God. Even after Jesus became the first resurrected man and is in heaven. Paul is still referring to him as a man as @Runningman was so sharp in noticing.

Chapter 5 from my online book that you can view here... https://www.carb-fat.com/jesus.html

Mediator: One who intervenes between two parties. (24)

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Hebrews 12:24
And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant,

A mediator is the third party through whom agreement is reached between two parties previously in conflict with each other. Christ is the mediator of the new covenant, the one whose action makes the covenant possible, and who is the guarantor of its execution. Christ Jesus is the one functioning as a go between, in order to initiate a relationship with us because he is literally connected to both sides, and therefore he is set between God and us. It's our big brother Christ Jesus, who is the one who is acting as a guarantee—to secure something that otherwise would not be obtained. Christ is the better covenant, the new covenant, guaranteeing its terms for the Christian people before the almighty God. Christ Jesus is producing peace for the salvation of his Church and has made a promise of assurance that the new covenant will perform satisfactorily because he is the one who is set between God and us.

Advocate: He who has been or may be called to help; a pleader who comes forward in favor of, and as the representative of another. (25)

1 John 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Jesus Christ is the person who is professionally qualified legally to plead our case in the highest court. As a technical term, advocate was used mainly in the legal systems that was derived from the Roman law. Christ, and only Christ, has taken the position of an advocate for us with God, and therefore he must have some claim upon the divine benefaction and the legal right to stand with us and speak in our defense. What a wonderful day it will be in our community, in our lives, and in our hearts when we realize the breach of God’s laws have been completely paid for, and Jesus Christ is in the heavenly courtroom to plead our case. We who were dead in our sins, because we were without God and without hope for salvation, have been made alive by an attorney who paid the consequences for our shortcomings and has taken up residence at the right hand of the throne of God to defend us.

Intercessor: Is one who intercedes on behalf of another. (26)

Romans 8:34
It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Hebrews 7:25
Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Hebrews 9:24
For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

The intercessor must have standing before God, just as defense attorneys must have standing before the court where they are pleading. Christ Jesus intercedes by placing his incorruptible life at the service of the Christian people to help in the form of a supporter. Christ has undertaken to see to it that this new covenant will not go unfulfilled since this function of the intercessor is related to the divine promise that is in the relation between God's sworn oath and us. Since God is one of the parties involved in the covenant and since there is no higher court that God could represent His covenant in relation to us; the only possible solution is to have Christ vouch for God’s oath to the new covenant. Since we are the other party involved in the covenant and since God has made His Son our brother and Lord, by way of the spirit of Christ within us; the only possible solution is to have Christ vouch for us in the relationship of this new covenant.

 

[JoshebB]

Since Richard is not here and since you want me to speak for myself. Then let's do that.

Let's.

Tell me who the "we" is in which you include yourself. Nothing more is asked of you at this time.

Here's from my very own book...

No, let's not.

All I want to know right now
is who is the "we"
to which you were previously referring?​

I am not asking for anything more than that at this time. Not all non-trins are alike so please do not tell me, "we non-trins," because that is a disingenuous answer. Modalist non-trins are not JW non-trins, and neither of those two are LDS non-trins.

You think we are in idolatry and we think the same of you..............

Ummm.... okay.....

Who is the "we" in that sentence?​

.

 

[Peterlag]

Let's.

Tell me who the "we" is in which you include yourself. Nothing more is asked of you at this time.

No, let's not.

All I want to know right now
is who is the "we"
to which you were previously referring?​

I am not asking for anything more than that at this time. Not all non-trins are alike so please do not tell me, "we non-trins," because that is a disingenuous answer. Modalist non-trins are not JW non-trins, and neither of those two are LDS non-trins.

Ummm.... okay.....

Who is the "we" in that sentence?​

.

Let's.

Tell me who the "we" is in which you include yourself. Nothing more is asked of you at this time.

No, let's not.

All I want to know right now
is who is the "we"
to which you were previously referring?​

I am not asking for anything more than that at this time. Not all non-trins are alike so please do not tell me, "we non-trins," because that is a disingenuous answer. Modalist non-trins are not JW non-trins, and neither of those two are LDS non-trins.

Ummm.... okay.....

Who is the "we" in that sentence?​

.

I answered this question in post 147. Are you going to be like others here and keep asking me the same question I already answered? Or did you just miss post 147 that I addressed to you?

 

[TomL]

I answered this question in post 147. Are you going to be like others here and keep asking me the same question I already answered? Or did you just miss post 147 that I addressed to you?

I know you still have not dealt with the fact Phil 2:5ff shows the Word was not impersonal