The Unitarian belief that Jesus is not God causes those who offer worship to the Father's Throne (where Jesus sits) to be guilty of idolatry.

[TomL]

You have a reading comprehension problem, but based more on what I have seen you say, it's likely you're just intellectually dishonest.

The true light "was coming" into the world refers to the action taking place continually, in the present day before Jesus' ministry began, while Jesus was 30 years old. John 1:9-10 prove that since this was happening continuously, then this would not have been Jesus, who was already in the world, with that being a completed action.

Therefore Jesus is not the Creator. Your talking points are dropping like flies dear Tom.

Pathetic you just ignored the text'

John 1:10 (KJV 1900) — 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
Who was in the world

Who did the world not receive

Who did John announce

Whose glory was seen

John 1:6–18 (KJV 1900) — 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. 15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me. 16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. 17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. 18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Hello It was not the father

you are living in an alternate universe apart from reality

 

[Runningman]

Context is something you routinely ignore

Colossians 1:15–18 (NASB 2020) — 15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation: 16 for by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominions, or rulers, or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. 18 He is also the head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.

Nowhere is Christ stated to be part of creation

Because you do not investigate word meaning and simply assume your interpretation, you fail to understand the meaning of first born here.

it points to his pre-eminence

The context supports this as Christ is pre-eminent over creation because he created it

All things were created by him. He could not have created himself, so he is not a part of creation



πρωτότοκος -ου, ὁ; (prōtotokos), adj. firstborn; first-born. Hebrew equivalent: בְּכֹר (110). LTW πρωτότοκος (Ancestry and Posterity), πρωτότοκος (Passover), πρωτότοκος (Inheritance).
Adjective Usage
1. firstborn† — of or designating the son first in order of birth; especially all the rights and privileges that accompany being the firstborn. Related Topics: Firstborn; First Fruits.
Lk 2:7 καὶ ἔτεκεν τὸν υἱὸν αὐτῆς τὸν πρωτότοκον,
Ro 8:29 εἰς τὸ εἶναι αὐτὸν πρωτότοκον ἐν πολλοῖς ἀδελφοῖς·
Heb 1:6 ὅταν δὲ πάλιν εἰσαγάγῃ τὸν πρωτότοκον εἰς τὴν οἰκουμένην,
Heb 11:28 ὁ ὀλοθρεύων τὰ πρωτότοκα
Heb 12:23 καὶ ἐκκλησίᾳ πρωτοτόκων ἀπογεγραμμένων ἐν οὐρανοῖς,
2. first ⇔ firstborn† — preceding all others in time or space or degree; probably understood as still including all the rights and privileges that accompany being a physical firstborn.
Col 1:15 ὅς ἐστιν εἰκὼν τοῦ θεοῦ τοῦ ἀοράτου, πρωτότοκος πάσης κτίσεως,
Col 1:18 ὅς ἐστιν ἀρχή, πρωτότοκος ἐκ τῶν νεκρῶν, ἵνα γένηται ἐν
Re 1:5 ὁ πρωτότοκος τῶν νεκρῶν
Rick Brannan, ed., Lexham Research Lexicon of the Greek New Testament (Lexham Research Lexicons; Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2020).

For example we read

Exodus 4:22 (KJV 1900) — 22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:

God did not give birth to Israel. it was his favorite

Psalm 89:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 Also I will make him my firstborn, Higher than the kings of the earth.

God would make this one higher than the kings of the earth

Firstborn denotes two things of Christ: He preceded the whole Creation, and He is Sovereign over all Creation. In the Old Testament a firstborn child had not only priority of birth but also the dignity and superiority that went with it (cf. Ex. 13:2-15; Deut. 21:17). When Jesus declared Himself the First (; Rev. 1:17), He used a word that means absolutely first. Firstborn also implies sovereignty. The description firstborn was not a fairly common Old Testament designation of the Messiah-God. I will also appoint Him My Firstborn, the most exalted of the kings of the earth (Ps. 89:27). While this regal psalm refers to David, it also designates the Messiah, as seen in Revelation 1:5, where Christ is called the Firstborn from the dead (cf. Col. 1:18) and the Ruler of the kings of the earth. So Firstborn implies both Christs priority to all Creation (in time) and His sovereignty over all Creation (in rank).

such use is pointed to by the closing sentence of the passage

so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.

According to the context of Colossians 1:15-20, it's not referring to Jesus as being God, but rather the image of the invisible God. So your point is a non sequitur. Your premise leads to a conclusion that is not supported by the premise. So you were saying that Jesus is the Creator and then you quoted this passage for your alleged proof, but Colossians 1:15 proves that Jesus is not God, not called God, but is rather an image of God. An image of God being the Creator is not a point in Scripture. You are looking at this passage with a very staunch trinitarian bias and you are missing nuances that contradict it.

If you don't have basic reasoning and logic then you won't be able to keep up with these kind of debates, let alone rightly divide the scripture, even though you quote a lot of verses. Verses coupled with non-understanding will not help very much.

Let's look at the rest of Colossians 1:15-20 to understand how this passage follows from the premise Paul presents of Jesus being the image of the invisible God, not the invisible God.

This refers to the ministry of Jesus. Since Jesus was not the image of God until he was a human, then what Paul was referring being created "in" Jesus is the spiritual framework of the church on earth and in heaven for Jesus. The word "in" best refers to Jesus being the channel through which God created. Keeping in mind that Jesus was the image of the invisible God, the invisible God was doing the creating through Jesus. It refers to the creation of the church. The entire context is about the church as Colossians 1:18 says.

This is further evidenced by the fact that God did not reconcile all things (in the church) to Himself until Jesus' shed blood on the cross. This is not referring to "all things" in the most general sense of creation. All things in creation will not be reconciled to God until the new heavens and new hearth. See Revelation 21:1-5 for further assistance with your understanding.

Colossians 1 (NIV)
15The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

 

[TomL]

I gave you a chance to be honest, now we have you on record being dishonest.

Here is what you said

Now, do you want to rescind your false claims?

No you can't read

that is what I stated there and above

Hello

Is English a second language for you?

 

[TomL]

According to the context of Colossians 1:15-20, it's not referring to Jesus as being God, but rather the image of the invisible God. So your point is a non sequitur. Your premise leads to a conclusion that is not supported by the premise. So you were saying that Jesus is the Creator and then you quoted this passage for your alleged proof, but Colossians 1:15 proves that Jesus is not God, not called God, but is rather an image of God. An image of God being the Creator is not a point in Scripture. You are looking at this passage with a very staunch trinitarian bias and you are missing nuances that contradict it.

If you don't have basic reasoning and logic then you won't be able to keep up with these kind of debates, let alone rightly divide the scripture, even though you quote a lot of verses. Verses coupled with non-understanding will not help very much.

Let's look at the rest of Colossians 1:15-20 to understand how this passage follows from the premise Paul presents of Jesus being the image of the invisible God, not the invisible God.

This refers to the ministry of Jesus. Since Jesus was not the image of God until he was a human, then what Paul was referring being created "in" Jesus is the spiritual framework on the church on earth and in heaven for Jesus. The word "in" best refers to Jesus being the channel through which God created. Keeping in mind that Jesus was the image of the invisible God, the invisible God was doing the creating through Jesus. It refers to the creation of the church. The entire context is about the church as Colossians 1:18 says.

This is further evidenced by the fact that God did not reconcile all things (in the church) to Himself until Jesus' shed blood on the cross. This is not referring to "all things" in the most general sense of creation. All things in creation will not be reconciled to God until the new heavens and new hearth. See Revelation 21:1-5 for further assistance with your understanding.

Colossians 1 (NIV)
15The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

First you begin by ignoring my point

Context is something you routinely ignore

Colossians 1:15–18 (NASB 2020) — 15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation: 16 for by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominions, or rulers, or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. 18 He is also the head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.

Nowhere is Christ stated to be part of creation

Because you do not investigate word meaning and simply assume your interpretation, you fail to understand the meaning of first born here.

it points to his pre-eminence

The context supports this as Christ is pre-eminent over creation because he created it

All things were created by him. He could not have created himself, so he is not a part of creation



πρωτότοκος -ου, ὁ; (prōtotokos), adj. firstborn; first-born. Hebrew equivalent: בְּכֹר (110). LTW πρωτότοκος (Ancestry and Posterity), πρωτότοκος (Passover), πρωτότοκος (Inheritance).
Adjective Usage
1. firstborn† — of or designating the son first in order of birth; especially all the rights and privileges that accompany being the firstborn. Related Topics: Firstborn; First Fruits.
Lk 2:7 καὶ ἔτεκεν τὸν υἱὸν αὐτῆς τὸν πρωτότοκον,
Ro 8:29 εἰς τὸ εἶναι αὐτὸν πρωτότοκον ἐν πολλοῖς ἀδελφοῖς·
Heb 1:6 ὅταν δὲ πάλιν εἰσαγάγῃ τὸν πρωτότοκον εἰς τὴν οἰκουμένην,
Heb 11:28 ὁ ὀλοθρεύων τὰ πρωτότοκα
Heb 12:23 καὶ ἐκκλησίᾳ πρωτοτόκων ἀπογεγραμμένων ἐν οὐρανοῖς,
2. first ⇔ firstborn† — preceding all others in time or space or degree; probably understood as still including all the rights and privileges that accompany being a physical firstborn.
Col 1:15 ὅς ἐστιν εἰκὼν τοῦ θεοῦ τοῦ ἀοράτου, πρωτότοκος πάσης κτίσεως,
Col 1:18 ὅς ἐστιν ἀρχή, πρωτότοκος ἐκ τῶν νεκρῶν, ἵνα γένηται ἐν
Re 1:5 ὁ πρωτότοκος τῶν νεκρῶν
Rick Brannan, ed., Lexham Research Lexicon of the Greek New Testament (Lexham Research Lexicons; Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2020).

For example we read

Exodus 4:22 (KJV 1900) — 22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:

God did not give birth to Israel. it was his favorite

Psalm 89:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 Also I will make him my firstborn, Higher than the kings of the earth.

God would make this one higher than the kings of the earth

Firstborn denotes two things of Christ: He preceded the whole Creation, and He is Sovereign over all Creation. In the Old Testament a firstborn child had not only priority of birth but also the dignity and superiority that went with it (cf. Ex. 13:2-15; Deut. 21:17). When Jesus declared Himself the First (; Rev. 1:17), He used a word that means absolutely first. Firstborn also implies sovereignty. The description firstborn was not a fairly common Old Testament designation of the Messiah-God. I will also appoint Him My Firstborn, the most exalted of the kings of the earth (Ps. 89:27). While this regal psalm refers to David, it also designates the Messiah, as seen in Revelation 1:5, where Christ is called the Firstborn from the dead (cf. Col. 1:18) and the Ruler of the kings of the earth. So Firstborn implies both Christs priority to all Creation (in time) and His sovereignty over all Creation (in rank).

such use is pointed to by the closing sentence of the passage

so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.

Where have you addressed the meaning of πρωτότοκος

Where have you addressed the logic

If all things were created by him, he could not be created for he could not create himself

That's right you didn't

Then you assume what col 1:15 does not say

There is nothing in col 1:15 denying Christ is deity (god)

you are assuming your theology once again

 

[TomL]

No this is not an error. In John 1:1, there is the Word and then there is God. The God is entirely distinct from the Word. Therefore they aren't the same person. Your premise is flawed and the points that follow don't nullify that the Word being a god with The God are written into the very verse itself. My point stands.

This is so stupid

No one believe the Word is the God (the father ) he is with

but he still is God as the text states

Your point does not stand

Your grammar does not stand

and your understanding of Trinitarianism is lacking

 

[TomL]

No this is not an error. In John 1:1, there is the Word and then there is God. The God is entirely distinct from the Word. Therefore they aren't the same person. Your premise is flawed and the points that follow don't nullify that the Word being a god with The God are written into the very verse itself. My point stands.

If you want to play word games, "ho logos" is still not "ton Theon." John wrote this way to show distinction between the word and God so that no one could possibly confuse them for being the same.

If you want to play words games, then, by that logic, you cede Jesus is not the true God in 1 John 5:20. I was waiting for you to argue. I've discovered something about you. You will try to argue your way out of a paper bag. All I need to do is put it in front of you.

1 John 5
20We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true by being in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

The word becoming flesh refers to the the flesh coming into being.

You are left with the epic failure in Trinitarian theology that doesn't say the Word incarnated.

Another absurd comment

Incarnate refers to the word becoming flesh

Further trinitarianism does not hold Ho logos is Ton Theon

That would be modalism

How are you going debate what you do not even understand

You were told previously the verse teaches the logos is what the Ton Theon is - deity (God)

A class of being not the person of the Father

remember i asked you in another post you did not understand either

Did you think Trinitarianism teach Jesus is the Father

 

[TomL]

There is zero intellectual honest with this man.

The guy can't read with understanding

 

[TomL]

Deal with your dishonest brother rather than enabling him. We should keep this debate distraction free. I need my points to not get buried for the readers.

Sorry but you are in need of remedial reading skills

I stated what i stated and you failed to understand

 

[Runningman]

So you're saying that the message of the Lord gave a message, or the words of the Lord spoke words? The only way that could possibly make sense is if it was a recorded message. There's no indication of that actually happening.

Also, even though the Word of God exhibits all the characteristics that a Person can possess and qualifies to be a Person, he is not a Person in your books? If I impose that same criteria on you, how do I know you're a person? Sure you speak and communicate like a person but just as easily as you degrade the Word of God to a non-person I can just as easily do the same thing to you.

Stay on topic. You originally mentioned 1 Kings 12:22 and 1 Ch 17:3 as your claim that the "word of God" is a person. Test it out and see. The "word of God" speaks of the Lord in the third-person perspective which would mean that, if the "word of God" were a person, then this is strong proof that the word is not God.

We keep butting heads on basic reading comprehension misunderstandings and failures on your part. So it seems we need to take you back to elementary school. Let's settle this:

Third Person Point of View​

In third-person narration, the narrator exists outside the events of the story, and relates the actions of the characters by referring to their names or by the third-person pronouns he, she, or they.

source: https://www.merriam-webster.com/grammar/point-of-view-first-second-third-person-difference#:~:text=character%20and%20reader.-,Third%20Person%20Point%20of%20View,he%2C%20she%2C%20or%20they.

 

[synergy]

Just one of the many examples that refer to the most ancient of authorities. I've already looked it up. You haven't even bothered following the bread crumbs to find out how your Bible got altered by Trins looking to give credibility to their religion?

Heretics (Unitarians, Judaizers, Muslims, JWs, etc...) are all the same. They all seem to have come from the same school. First they say that the Bible aligns with their beliefs. And when they realize that the Bible doesn't align then they start to disparage it as being altered/corrupted. The Bible then becomes your Bible. It's like when your wife says to talk to your son about something he's done.

CC: @praise_yeshua , @civic

 

[praise_yeshua]

Another absurd comment

Incarnate refers to the word becoming flesh

Further trinitarianism does not hold Ho logos is Ton Theon

That would be modalism

How are you going debate what you do not even understand

You were told previously the verse teaches the logos is what the Ton Theon is - deity (God)

A class of being not the person of the Father

remember i asked you in another post you did not understand either

Did you think Trinitarianism teach Jesus is the Father

I've asked him multiple times now to tell us what the difference is between incarnation and "becoming flesh"......

He isn't here to have an intellectually honest conversation.

 

[civic]

You did not ask that. You wrote about what you hope I was not imagining which would be what I think, not what trinitarians imagine.

Are you Islamic in your beliefs ?

If so what sect ?

 

[Runningman]

This is a very weak argument

Hebrews 1:1–2 (KJV 1900) — 1 GOD, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

The passage speaks of God's revelation through the prophet and has nothing at all to do with creation







Again you do not investigate word meanings and usage and assume what you will

Hebrews 1:1–2 (KJV 1900) — 1 GOD, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;



αἰών -ος, ὁ; (aiōn), n. age. Hebrew equivalent: עוֹלָם (27). LTW αἰῶν (Eternity), αἰών (Time).
Noun Usage
1. era — a period of history having some distinctive feature.
Ga 1:4 ὅπως ἐξέληται ἡμᾶς ἐκ τοῦ αἰῶνος τοῦ ἐνεστῶτος πονηροῦ κατὰ
Eph 2:2 κατὰ τὸν αἰῶνα τοῦ κόσμου τούτου,
Eph 3:21 γενεὰς τοῦ αἰῶνος τῶν
1 Ti 1:17 τῷ δὲ βασιλεῖ τῶν αἰώνων, ἀφθάρτῳ, ἀοράτῳ, μόνῳ θεῷ,
Jud 25 δόξα μεγαλωσύνη κράτος καὶ ἐξουσία πρὸ παντὸς τοῦ αἰῶνος καὶ
2. evil age — a particular stage of history understood according to its values, beliefs, and morals in distinction to God’s.
Ro 12:2 τῷ αἰῶνι τούτῳ,
1 Co 2:6 τοῦ αἰῶνος τούτου
1 Co 3:18 τῷ αἰῶνι τούτῳ,
2 Co 4:4 τοῦ αἰῶνος τούτου
2 Ti 4:10 ἀγαπήσας τὸν νῦν αἰῶνα,
3. eternity† — time (as a continuum of experience) without beginning in the past or end in the future. Related Topic: Eternity.
Re 15:3 ὁ βασιλεὺς τῶν αἰώνων·
4. universe ⇔ ages† — everything that exists anywhere; perhaps with some temporal focus. Related Topic: Age.
Heb 1:2 καὶ ἐποίησεν τοὺς αἰῶνας·
Heb 11:3 πίστει νοοῦμεν κατηρτίσθαι τοὺς αἰῶνας ῥήματι θεοῦ, εἰς τὸ μὴ
5. kingdom of God ⇔ era† — the kingdom of God, understood by the temporal span within which the kingdom is inaugurated and extant.
Lk 20:35 τοῦ αἰῶνος ἐκείνου
Rick Brannan, ed., Lexham Research Lexicon of the Greek New Testament (Lexham Research Lexicons; Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2020).

but you could have simply read the rest of the chapter

Hebrews 1:8–10 (KJV 1900) — 8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. 9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. 10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

because you do not investigate word use and do not consider context you continually misinterpret scripture

Provided that the word for "worlds" does not appear in Hebrews 1:1-2, then it's not talking about the worlds. The word for "worlds" is kosmō which would be a reference to the literal world and universe and it appears in John 1:9,10 which proves that Jesus did not create the word/universe, but rather the true Light (God) is the creator.

However, the word in Hebrews 1:2 is aiōnas which refers to an age or a cycle of time. This is also how it is used consistently throughout the Bible.

To test the validity of your theology, simply ask yourself if the universe was made 2,000 years ago when God was speaking through Jesus. If the answer is yes, you need a doctor. If the answer is no, then do not be alarmed, your critical thinking is working exactly as it should be.

Here's one of the best literal translations of Hebrews 1:1-2. It refers to God speaking through Jesus as a prophet to make the church age.

Hebrews 1:1-2 (Berean Literal Bible)
1God, having spoken long ago to our fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He made the ages,

 

[civic]

I've asked him multiple times now to tell us what the difference is between incarnation and "becoming flesh"......

He isn't here to have an intellectually honest conversation.

Since the 6 days of creation are history then the Word who ( not it ) became flesh was personal unlike the creation of Adam from the dust.

There are so many holes in a theology that impersonalizes the Word in John 1:1, 14. Also as you know there are many other passages where we see the Personal Word( the Person who is the Word ) prior to the Incarnation stated throughout both testaments.

 

[Runningman]

Correct. @Runningman's failure to consult the Greek causes his heresies to blow up in his face again.Therefore, his entire heretical view of John 1 crashes and burns before our very eyes.

Apostle John seems to be trolling you. He said the word is not The God.

Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ Λόγος, καὶ ὁ Λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν Θεόν, καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος.

 

[civic]

Apostle John seems to be trolling you. He said the word is not The God.

Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ Λόγος, καὶ ὁ Λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν Θεόν, καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος.

Nice dodge both are called Theos/Theon in John 1:1

You just shot yourself in the foot lol. That means every time God is mentioned without definite article its not the True God.

You just debunked your own argument rofl.

oops

next

hope this helps !!!

 

[Runningman]

If this verse disproves Jesus is God it also disproves The father is LORD

1 Corinthians 8:6 (NASB 2020) — 6 yet for us there is only one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.

Jesus is the one lord (heis kyrios)

Heis kyrios are the words greek speaking Hebrews used to denote one YHWH in the shema of Israel

Here it is in the New Testament

Mark 12:29 (KJV 1900) — 29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

So the heis kyrios of 1cor 8:6 is the lord our God of Mark 12:29

As noted previously, john 17:3 does not state the father alone is the one true God

In Trinitarianism The Father, son , and the Holy Spirit are all the one true God

So a statement saying the Father is the one true God does not disprove trinitarianism

So you merely beg the question assuming your view only the father can be the one true God

And your interpretation of Eph 4 leaves you stuck with a declaration The father is not Lord

Ephesians 4:5–6 (KJV 1900) — 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

As we have seen Jesus is that one Lord 1Cor 8:6

and the Bible does point to Jesus the word being God

John 1:1 (KJV 1900) — 1 IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 20:28 (KJV 1900) — 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

and because you prefer modern bibles

Titus 2:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

2 Peter 1:1 (KJV 1900) — 1 SIMON Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

and approve of the NWT

(NWT) Joh 1:18 No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom [position] with the Father is the one that has explained him.

and lets not leave off the old testament modern or old translation

Isaiah 9:6 (KJV 1900) — 6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: And the government shall be upon his shoulder: And his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

As long as it disproves Jesus is God then let's go with the Father not being Lord for the sake of argument, though that is simply not the case. While it's true that Jesus is called the one Lord in 1 Cor. 8:6, Jesus is never called the One God throughout all of Scripture, yet the Father is indeed called the One God, the only God, the true God, and even the One Lord in Eph. 4:4-6. Since that's the case, then the common denominator is that Jesus is not God.

The factor you fail to consider is that the Father is indeed called the Lord. Jesus, a man with human hands, referred to the Father as the Lord of heaven and earth in Matthew 11:25:

Matthew 11:25(NIV)​

25At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.​

While in Acts 17:24,25, Paul referred to God as the Lord of heaven and earth and Creator, saying He is not served by human hands:

Acts 17 (NIV)​

24“The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by human hands. 25And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything. Rather, he himself gives everyone life and breath and everything else​

Since the post-resurrected Jesus retained his human hands when he stated in Matthew 28:18 "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me" then we can conclude that despite Jesus' authority that he was given after his resurrection that Jesus is not God. Jesus is not the creator. Jesus is not the Lord of heaven and earth. That's Sola Scriptura.

Where you are getting lost is that as far as the Lordship of God and Jesus go, there is a hierarchy in the kingdom of heaven. This is fundamental to understand and something that I have observed the Trinitarian school of thought slowly adopting. The Father is God and is the one Lord overall, Jesus is Lord over the church.

Ephesians 4 (NIV)​

4There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; 5one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.​

 

[Runningman]

Where do you see verse 14 calling the word "it"??? I see a personal pronoun "His". Verses from the Unitarian Heretical Standard Edition are not recognized here.

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

That was in the God's Word translation as I had already showed.

John 1 (God's Word Translation)
14The Word became human and lived among us. We saw his glory. It was the glory that the Father shares with his only Son, a glory full of kindness and truth.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

I've asked him multiple times now to tell us what the difference is between incarnation and "becoming flesh"......

He isn't here to have an intellectually honest conversation.

I can share my opinion and I would like to know yours.

"Becoming flesh" means that all thoughts, words and acts reflect perfectly God's Message (God's Word).

 

[Peterlag]

You failed to address the rebuttal to the claim of your book

that Christ became God in 300 a.d.

He is Lord of all the world, to whom God said at the foundation of the world, “Let us make man after our image, and after our likeness.” Barnabas (c. 70–130, E), 1.139.

Let us reverence the Lord Jesus Christ, whose blood was given for us. Clement of Rome (c. 96, W), 1.11.

God Himself was manifested in human form for the renewal of eternal life. Ignatius (c. 105, E), 1.58.

Continue in intimate union with Jesus Christ, our God. Ignatius (c. 105, E), 1.68.

I pray for your happiness forever in our God, Jesus Christ. Ignatius (c. 105, E), 1.96.

The Christians trace the beginning of their religion to Jesus the Messiah. He is called the Son of the Most High God. It is said that God came down from heaven. He assumed flesh and clothed Himself with it from a Hebrew virgin. And the Son of God lived in a daughter of man. Aristides (c. 125, E), 9.265.

Truly God Himself, who is Almighty, the Creator of all things, and invisible, has sent from heaven, and placed among men, the One who is the truth, and the holy and incomprehensible Word.… God did not, as one might have imagined, send to men any servant, angel, or ruler.… Rather, He sent the very Creator and Fashioner of all things—by whom He made the heavens.… As a king sends his son, who is also a king, so God sent Him. He sent Him as God. Letter to Diognetus (c. 125–200), 1.27.

Brethren, it is fitting that you should think of Jesus Christ as of God—as the Judge of the living and the dead. Second Clement (c. 150), 7.517.

We reasonably worship Him, having learned that He is the Son of the true God Himself, and holding Him in the second place. Justin Martyr (c. 160, E), 1.166.

The Word, … He is Divine. Justin Martyr (c. 160, E), 1.166.

The Father of the universe has a Son. And He, being the First-Begotten Word of God, is even God. Justin Martyr (c. 160, E), 1.184.

Next to God, we worship and love the Word who is from the unbeggoten and ineffable God. Justin Martyr (c. 160, E), 1.193.

For Christ is King, Priest, God, Lord, Angel, and Man. Justin Martyr (c. 160, E), 1.211.

[TRYPHO, A JEW:] You utter many blasphemies, in that you seek to persuade us that this crucified man was with Moses and Aaron, and spoke to them in the pillar of the cloud. Justin Martyr (c. 160, E), 1.213.

Moses … declares that He who appeared to Abraham under the oak in Mamre is God. He was sent with the two angels in His company to judge Sodom by another One, who remains ever in the supercelestial places, invisible to all men, holding personal contact with no one. We believe this other One to be the Maker and Father of all things.… Yet, there is said to be another God and Lord subject to the Maker of all things. And He is also called an Angel, because he announces to men whatsoever the Maker of all things—above whom there is no other God—wishes to announce to them. Justin Martyr (c. 160, E), 1.223.

He deserves to be worshipped as God and as Christ. Justin Martyr (c. 160, E), 1.229.

David predicted that He would be born from the womb before the sun and moon, according to the Father’s will. He made Him known, being Christ, as God, strong and to be worshipped. Justin Martyr (c. 160, E), 1.237.

The Son ministered to the will of the Father. Yet, nevertheless, He is God, in that He is the First-Begotten of all creatures. Justin Martyr (c. 160, E), 1.262.

If you had understood what has been written by the prophets, you would not have denied that He was God, Son of the Only, Unbegotten, Unutterable God. Justin Martyr (c. 160, E), 1.263.

“Rejoice, O you heavens, with him, and let all the angels of God worship Him” [Deut. 32:43]. Justin Martyr (c. 160, E), 1.264.

He is forever the first in power. For Christ, being the First-Born of every creature, became again the chief of another race regenerated by Himself through water, faith, and wood. Justin Martyr (c. 160, E), 1.268.

Then did the whole creation see clearly that for man’s sake the Judge was condemned, and the Invisible was seen, and the Illimitable was circumscribed, and the Impassible suffered, and the Immortal died, and the Celestial was laid in the grave. Melito (c. 170, E), 8.756.

God was put to death, the King of Israel slain! Melito (c. 170, E), 8.758.

There is the one God and the Logos proceeding from Him, the Son. We understand that the Son is inseparable from Him. Athenagoras (c. 175, E), 2.137.

God by His own Word and Wisdom made all things. Theophilus (c. 180, E), 2.91.

“Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever; the scepter of Your kingdom is a right scepter. You have loved righteousness and hated iniquity. Therefore, God, Your God, has anointed You.” For the Spirit designates by the name of God—both Him who is anointed as Son, and He who anoints, that is, the Father. And again, “God stood in the congregation of the gods; He judges among the gods.” Here he refers to the Father and the Son, and those who have received the adoption. Irenaeus (c. 180, E/W), 1.419.

For He fulfills the bountiful and comprehensive will of His Father, inasmuch as He is Himself the Savior of those who are saved, and the Lord of those who are under authority, and the God of all those things that have been formed, the Only-Begotten of the Father. Irenaeus (c. 180, E/W), 1.443.

I have shown from the Scriptures that none of the sons of Adam are, absolutely and as to everything, called God, or named Lord. But Jesus is Himself in His own right, beyond all men who ever lived, God, Lord, King Eternal, and the Incarnate Word.… He is the Holy Lord, the Wonderful, the Counselor, the Beautiful in appearance, and the Mighty God. Irenaeus (c. 180, E/W), 1.449.

Thus He indicates in clear terms that He is God, and that His advent was in Bethlehem.… God, then, was made man, and the Lord did Himself save us. Irenaeus (c. 180, E/W), 1.451.

He is God, for the name Emmanuel indicates this. Irenaeus (c. 180, E/W), 1.452.

Christ Himself, therefore, together with the Father, is the God of the living, who spoke to Moses, and who was also manifested to the fathers. Irenaeus (c. 180, E/W), 1.467.

Now the father of the human race is the Word of God. Irenaeus (c. 180, E/W), 1.505.

How can they be saved unless it was God who worked out their salvation upon earth? Or how shall man pass into God, unless God has first passed into man? Irenaeus (c. 180, E/W), 1.507.

It is plain that He was Himself the Word of God, who was made the son of man. He received from the Father the power of remission of sins. He was man, and He was God. This was so that since as man He suffered for us, so as God He might have compassion on us. Irenaeus (c. 180, E/W), 1.545.

He is God in the form of man, stainless, the minister of His Father’s will, the Word who is God, who is in the Father, who is at the Father’s right hand. And with the form of God, He is God. Clement of Alexandria (c. 195, E), 2.210.

There is a suggestion of the divinity of the Lord in [Isaac’s] not being slain. Jesus rose again after His burial, having suffered no harm—just like Isaac was released from being sacrificed. Clement of Alexandria (c. 195, E), 2.215.

O the great God! O the perfect child! The Son in the Father and the Father in the Son.… God the Word, who became man for our sakes. Clement of Alexandria (c. 195, E), 2.215.

The Father of all is alone perfect, for the Son is in Him and the Father is in the Son. Clement of Alexandria (c. 195, E), 2.222.

Our Instructor is the holy God Jesus, the Word. Clement of Alexandria (c. 195, E), 2.223.

Nothing, then, is hated by God, nor yet by the Word. For both are one—that is, God. For He has said, “In the beginning the Word was in God, and the Word was God.” Clement of Alexandria (c. 195, E), 2.225.

He who has the Almighty God, the Word, is in want of nothing. Clement of Alexandria (c. 195, E), 2.281.

Pointing to the First-Begotten Son, Peter writes, accurately comprehending the statement, “In the beginning God made the heaven and the earth.” And He is called Wisdom by all the prophets. This is He who is the Teacher of all created beings. Clement of Alexandria (c. 195, E), 2.493.


David W. Bercot, ed., “Christ, Divinity Of,” A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs: A Reference Guide to More than 700 Topics Discussed by the Early Church Fathers (Peabody, MA: Hendrickson Publishers, 1998), 93–95.

My book as a good 157 pages. What claim are you referring to when you say I failed to address the rebuttal to the claim of my book?