There were two in Genesis 2:24 which is a plurality within the echad reference of two becoming one, ie a UNITY!!!!
The Shema
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Matthias
Well-known member
One (echad) flesh. Not more than one flesh.
One means one. It doesn’t cease meaning “one” when it modifies a collective noun.
Your biblical example involved two persons.
One football team would be a non-biblical example, involving many more than just two persons.
One (echad) football team is not more than one football team.
One means one. It doesn’t cease meaning “one“ when it modifies the collective noun.
Diserner
Well-known member
Grammar features of target languages do not always 1 to 1 correlate with the origin language, so this is literally impossible.
If we had a noun like goose and geese, we could say "the geese was featherless" to convey the idea of a plural noun and singular verb.
Matthias
Well-known member
”One” works exactly the same way in Hebrew as it does in English or any other language.
“One” goose is “one” goose, not more than “one” goose.
“One” geese is just bad grammar.
“One” flock of geese is “one” flock of geese, not more than “one” flock of geese.
There is no plurality in “one”.
Matthias
Well-known member
Let’s look at the Hebrew phrase echad elohim.
There is no plurality in echad.
If there is plurality in the phrase, then it has to be in the word elohim.
Elohim is always plural in form but is not always plural in meaning.
If we insist that elohim is plural in meaning, then it must be insisted that we translate elohim as plural.
By the same token, if we insist that elohim is singular in meaning, then it must be insisted that we translate elohim as singular.
Which choice should make with the Hebrew phrase, echad elohim?
If we decide that elohim is singular in meaning then there is no plurality.
If we decide that elohim is plural in meaning then we must translate it as plural in meaning.
We’ve insisted that it’s plural in meaning? Okay. Here’s what it looks like when it’s translated as plural in meaning: one gods.
We’ve insisted that it’s singular in meaning? Okay. Here’s what it looks like when it’s translated as singular in meaning: one god.
Diserner
Well-known member
In English...
Matthias
Well-known member
The Code of Justinian.
“Shema Yisrael, sometimes considered the most important prayer in Judaism (‘Hear, O Israel, YHWH our God, YHWH is one’) was banned, as a denial of the Trinity.”
orthodoxwiki.org
“Shema Yisrael, sometimes considered the most important prayer in Judaism (‘Hear, O Israel, YHWH our God, YHWH is one’) was banned, as a denial of the Trinity.”
Code of Justinian - OrthodoxWiki
Matthias
Well-known member
GW Law Library: Library Guides: Roman Law Research: Corpus Juris Civilis
GW Law Library: Library Guides: Roman Law Research: Corpus Juris Civilis
law.gwu.libguides.com
Education is the solution to ignorance.
Matthias
Well-known member
“… the Sh’ma was condemned as being anti-trinitarian, ...”
jewishcurrents.org
An episode in 6th century Christian history.
April 7: Justinian's Code
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jewishcurrents.org
An episode in 6th century Christian history.
civic
Well-known member
Scripture is the answer as the wisdom of the world is foolishness to God.GW Law Library: Library Guides: Roman Law Research: Corpus Juris Civilis
GW Law Library: Library Guides: Roman Law Research: Corpus Juris Civilis
Education is the solution to ignorance.
hope this helps !!!
Matthias
Well-known member
Trinitarians living in the Roman Empire in the 6th century believed the Shema is anti-trinitarian. They were right.
The Church and State was legislating against anti-trinitarianism. It’s history, but not many people today are interested and knowledgeable about it.
civic
Well-known member
Ignorance with the wisdom of the world- Shema is Trinitarian as per 1 Cor 8:6- they did not know their bibles, ie truth.
Matthias
Well-known member
There is no Trinity in 1 Corinthians 8:6.
So it is your testimony then that the trinitarians living in the 6th century didn’t know the Bible; didn’t know truth.
civic
Well-known member
There is the Plural God who created all things- the Father and Son The Dynamic Duo- The Co-Creators who are before all created things- the Shema- the Eternal God who is Plural in Persons.
Paul in this passage interprets and give us understanding on the true meaning of the Shema- One God, Plural in Persons.
hope this helps !!!
civic
Well-known member
Dr. Bowman below
A. This one God is known in the OT as Jehovah or Yahweh (“the LORD”)
1. Texts where Jehovah is said to be elohim or el: Deut. 4:35, 39; Josh. 22:34; 1 Kings 8:60; 18:21, 39; Ps. 100:3; 118:27; etc.
2. Texts where the compound name “Jehovah God” (Yahweh Elohim) is used: Gen. 2:4-9, 15-22; 3:1, 8-9, 13-14, 21-23; 24:3; Ex. 9:30; Ps. 72:18; 84:11; Jonah 4:6
3. Only one Yahweh/Jehovah: Deut. 6:4; Mark 12:29
4. The Bible never speaks of “the gods” as a group that includes Yahweh; nor is creation ever credited to “gods”; nor does it ever enjoin the worship of “gods”; nor does it speak in any other way that would imply that Yahweh was one of a group of deities. In fact the Bible explicitly rejects these types of statements (e.g., Deut. 5:6-10; 6:4-5, 13; Is. 43:10; 44:6-8, 24).
5. Conclusion: Jehovah is the only God, the only El or Elohim
B. This one God, the LORD, is one single divine being
1. The Bible always refers to the LORD or God in the third person singular (he, his, him), never as they, and speakers in the Bible addressing God/the LORD always do so in the second person singular (you singular). Citing texts is really unnecessary because there are far too many occurrences, but see, for example, Gen. 1:5, 10; Ex. 3:6, 12-14; 20:7; Deut. 32:39; 1 Kings 18:39; Ps. 23:2-3.
2. Whenever in the Bible the LORD or God speaks to human beings or other creatures, he always speaks of himself in the first person singular (I, and my/mine, not us/we and our/ours). Of the obviously numerous examples, see the especially famous examples in Ex. 3:14; Ex. 20:2; Deut. 5:6. He says “I am the LORD” or “I am the LORD your/their God” some 164 times in the OT (especially in Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Isaiah, and Ezekiel).
3. This conclusion cannot be circumvented by saying that there is one “Godhead” consisting of a plurality of divine beings. The word “Godhead” is equivalent to the word “Godhood” (-head is an old English suffix meaning the state or status of something, as in maidenhead, the state of being a maiden or virgin). In the English Bible it is used to translate three closely related words: theion (“divine being,” Acts 17:29), theiotês (“divine nature,” Rom. 1:20), and theotês (“deity,” Col. 2:9). In none of these texts does “Godhead” refer to more than one divine being. The use of “Godhead” as a term for the Trinity is not found in the Bible; it is not inaccurate per se, but it must be understood as a term for a single divine being, not a group of gods.
C. However, the Bible never says that God is “one person.”
1. Heb. 1:3 KJV speaks of God’s “person,” but the word used here, hupostasis, is translated “substance” in Heb. 11:1 KJV; also in Heb. 1:3 “God” refers specifically to the Father.
2. Gal. 3:20 speaks of God as one party in the covenant between God and man, not as one person.
3. Job 13:8 KJV speaks of God’s “person,” but ironically the Hebrew literally means “his faces.”
D. The use of plural pronouns by God in Genesis 1-11
1. As already noted, the Bible always refers to God in the singular, and he always speaks of himself with singular pronouns (I, me, mine, my) when addressing creatures. These singular forms do not disprove that God exists as three “persons” as long as these persons are not separate beings.
2. At least three times God speaks of or to himself using plural pronouns (Gen. 1:26; 3:22; 11:7), and nontrinitarian interpretations cannot account for these occurrences.
a. A plural reference to God and the angels is not likely in these texts. In 1:26 “our image” is explained by the parallel in 1:27, “in God’s image.” In 3:22 “like one of us” refers back to 3:5, “like God.” In 11:7 “let us go down and there confuse their language” is explained immediately in 11:8-9, “So the LORD [Yahweh] scattered them abroad from there … The LORD confused the language of the whole earth.” Angels were evidently present when God created human beings (cf. Job 38:4-7), but the Bible never includes them as participants in creating human beings. Nor does the Bible ever speak of humans as being in the image of angels.
b. That the plural is in some way literal is evident from 3:22 (“like one of us”) and from 11:7 (“Come, let us go down”), which parallels the people’s statements “Come, let us …” (11:3, 4).
c. The “literary plural” (possibly, though never clearly, attested in Paul) is irrelevant to OT texts in which God is speaking, not writing.
d. The “plural of deliberation” or “cohortative plural” (as in “Let’s see now …”) with reference to a single person is apparently unattested in biblical writings, and clearly cannot explain the plural in Gen. 3:22 (“like one of us”).
e. The “plural of amplitude” or of “fullness” (which probably does explain the use of the plural form elohim in the singular sense of “God”) is irrelevant to the use of plural pronouns, and again cannot explain Gen. 3:22 and 11:7.
f. The “plural of majesty” (the royal “we”) is possibly attested in 1 Kings 12:9; 2 Chron. 10:9; more likely Ezra 4:18; but none of these is a certain use of that idiom; and again, it cannot explain Gen. 3:22 and 11:7.
3. There are two factors that may explain why these intradivine plural pronouns occur only in Genesis 1-11.
a. These plural pronouns express communication among the divine persons, rather than communication from God to human beings or angelic creatures.
b. It may be significant that the use of these plural forms is reported only in Genesis 1-11, prior to the revelations to Abraham, when the focus of biblical revelation became the fostering of a monotheistic faith. The history of the OT is a history of the struggle to establish Israel as a community committed to belief in one God. In that context it would have been confusing to have referred overtly to the three divine persons of the triune God. This also explains why there is no overt revelation of the three persons in the OT.
E. The uniqueness of God should prepare us for the possibility that the one divine Being exists uniquely as a plurality of persons
1. Only one God, thus unique: see I.A
2. None are even like God: see I.B
3. God cannot be fully comprehended: Is. 40:18, 25; 1 Cor. 8:2-3
4. God can be known only insofar as the Son reveals Him: Matt. 11:25-27; John 1:18
5. Analogical language needed to describe God: Ezek. 1:26-28; Rev. 1:13-16
6. God is transcendent, entirely distinct from and different than the universe, as the carpenter is distinct from the bench
a. Separate from the world: Is. 40:22; Acts 17:24
b. Contrasted with the world: Ps. 102:25-27; 1 John 2:15-17
c. Created the world: Gen. 1:1; Ps. 33:6; 102:25; Is. 42:5; 44:24; John 1:3; Rom. 11:36; Heb. 1:2; 11:3
This One God Is the Single Divine Being Known in the OT as Jehovah or Yahweh (“The LORD”)
A. This one God is known in the OT as Jehovah or Yahweh (“the LORD”)
1. Texts where Jehovah is said to be elohim or el: Deut. 4:35, 39; Josh. 22:34; 1 Kings 8:60; 18:21, 39; Ps. 100:3; 118:27; etc.
2. Texts where the compound name “Jehovah God” (Yahweh Elohim) is used: Gen. 2:4-9, 15-22; 3:1, 8-9, 13-14, 21-23; 24:3; Ex. 9:30; Ps. 72:18; 84:11; Jonah 4:6
3. Only one Yahweh/Jehovah: Deut. 6:4; Mark 12:29
4. The Bible never speaks of “the gods” as a group that includes Yahweh; nor is creation ever credited to “gods”; nor does it ever enjoin the worship of “gods”; nor does it speak in any other way that would imply that Yahweh was one of a group of deities. In fact the Bible explicitly rejects these types of statements (e.g., Deut. 5:6-10; 6:4-5, 13; Is. 43:10; 44:6-8, 24).
5. Conclusion: Jehovah is the only God, the only El or Elohim
B. This one God, the LORD, is one single divine being
1. The Bible always refers to the LORD or God in the third person singular (he, his, him), never as they, and speakers in the Bible addressing God/the LORD always do so in the second person singular (you singular). Citing texts is really unnecessary because there are far too many occurrences, but see, for example, Gen. 1:5, 10; Ex. 3:6, 12-14; 20:7; Deut. 32:39; 1 Kings 18:39; Ps. 23:2-3.
2. Whenever in the Bible the LORD or God speaks to human beings or other creatures, he always speaks of himself in the first person singular (I, and my/mine, not us/we and our/ours). Of the obviously numerous examples, see the especially famous examples in Ex. 3:14; Ex. 20:2; Deut. 5:6. He says “I am the LORD” or “I am the LORD your/their God” some 164 times in the OT (especially in Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Isaiah, and Ezekiel).
3. This conclusion cannot be circumvented by saying that there is one “Godhead” consisting of a plurality of divine beings. The word “Godhead” is equivalent to the word “Godhood” (-head is an old English suffix meaning the state or status of something, as in maidenhead, the state of being a maiden or virgin). In the English Bible it is used to translate three closely related words: theion (“divine being,” Acts 17:29), theiotês (“divine nature,” Rom. 1:20), and theotês (“deity,” Col. 2:9). In none of these texts does “Godhead” refer to more than one divine being. The use of “Godhead” as a term for the Trinity is not found in the Bible; it is not inaccurate per se, but it must be understood as a term for a single divine being, not a group of gods.
C. However, the Bible never says that God is “one person.”
1. Heb. 1:3 KJV speaks of God’s “person,” but the word used here, hupostasis, is translated “substance” in Heb. 11:1 KJV; also in Heb. 1:3 “God” refers specifically to the Father.
2. Gal. 3:20 speaks of God as one party in the covenant between God and man, not as one person.
3. Job 13:8 KJV speaks of God’s “person,” but ironically the Hebrew literally means “his faces.”
D. The use of plural pronouns by God in Genesis 1-11
1. As already noted, the Bible always refers to God in the singular, and he always speaks of himself with singular pronouns (I, me, mine, my) when addressing creatures. These singular forms do not disprove that God exists as three “persons” as long as these persons are not separate beings.
2. At least three times God speaks of or to himself using plural pronouns (Gen. 1:26; 3:22; 11:7), and nontrinitarian interpretations cannot account for these occurrences.
a. A plural reference to God and the angels is not likely in these texts. In 1:26 “our image” is explained by the parallel in 1:27, “in God’s image.” In 3:22 “like one of us” refers back to 3:5, “like God.” In 11:7 “let us go down and there confuse their language” is explained immediately in 11:8-9, “So the LORD [Yahweh] scattered them abroad from there … The LORD confused the language of the whole earth.” Angels were evidently present when God created human beings (cf. Job 38:4-7), but the Bible never includes them as participants in creating human beings. Nor does the Bible ever speak of humans as being in the image of angels.
b. That the plural is in some way literal is evident from 3:22 (“like one of us”) and from 11:7 (“Come, let us go down”), which parallels the people’s statements “Come, let us …” (11:3, 4).
c. The “literary plural” (possibly, though never clearly, attested in Paul) is irrelevant to OT texts in which God is speaking, not writing.
d. The “plural of deliberation” or “cohortative plural” (as in “Let’s see now …”) with reference to a single person is apparently unattested in biblical writings, and clearly cannot explain the plural in Gen. 3:22 (“like one of us”).
e. The “plural of amplitude” or of “fullness” (which probably does explain the use of the plural form elohim in the singular sense of “God”) is irrelevant to the use of plural pronouns, and again cannot explain Gen. 3:22 and 11:7.
f. The “plural of majesty” (the royal “we”) is possibly attested in 1 Kings 12:9; 2 Chron. 10:9; more likely Ezra 4:18; but none of these is a certain use of that idiom; and again, it cannot explain Gen. 3:22 and 11:7.
3. There are two factors that may explain why these intradivine plural pronouns occur only in Genesis 1-11.
a. These plural pronouns express communication among the divine persons, rather than communication from God to human beings or angelic creatures.
b. It may be significant that the use of these plural forms is reported only in Genesis 1-11, prior to the revelations to Abraham, when the focus of biblical revelation became the fostering of a monotheistic faith. The history of the OT is a history of the struggle to establish Israel as a community committed to belief in one God. In that context it would have been confusing to have referred overtly to the three divine persons of the triune God. This also explains why there is no overt revelation of the three persons in the OT.
E. The uniqueness of God should prepare us for the possibility that the one divine Being exists uniquely as a plurality of persons
1. Only one God, thus unique: see I.A
2. None are even like God: see I.B
3. God cannot be fully comprehended: Is. 40:18, 25; 1 Cor. 8:2-3
4. God can be known only insofar as the Son reveals Him: Matt. 11:25-27; John 1:18
5. Analogical language needed to describe God: Ezek. 1:26-28; Rev. 1:13-16
6. God is transcendent, entirely distinct from and different than the universe, as the carpenter is distinct from the bench
a. Separate from the world: Is. 40:22; Acts 17:24
b. Contrasted with the world: Ps. 102:25-27; 1 John 2:15-17
c. Created the world: Gen. 1:1; Ps. 33:6; 102:25; Is. 42:5; 44:24; John 1:3; Rom. 11:36; Heb. 1:2; 11:3
Matthias
Well-known member
Co-creators? There are no co-creators. The one God created alone, by himself.
civic
Well-known member
More from Bowman on the Shema
credohouse.org
The Great Trinity Debate, Part 3: Rob Bowman on Jesus Christ, continued - Credo House Ministries
I turn now to some major Christological passages in the epistles. Regrettably, I wrote a full treatment of Colossians 1:12-20 but have had to cut it for sake of space. Romans 10:8-13 Verses 8-10: Paul states that the saving confession is that “Jesus is Lord” (kurios) and “that God raised him...
credohouse.org
Matthias
Well-known member
More from Bowman on the Shema
The Great Trinity Debate, Part 3: Rob Bowman on Jesus Christ, continued - Credo House Ministries
I turn now to some major Christological passages in the epistles. Regrettably, I wrote a full treatment of Colossians 1:12-20 but have had to cut it for sake of space. Romans 10:8-13 Verses 8-10: Paul states that the saving confession is that “Jesus is Lord” (kurios) and “that God raised him...
Commentary. You wouldn’t be making an appeal to authority, would you?
One of the things I was tasked with as a professor was instructing my students, especially the freshmen, on how to properly use commentaries.
civic
Well-known member
The many gods/lords contrasted with the 1 God and 1 Lord
1 Cor 8:5-6
There may be so-called gods both in heaven and on earth, and some people actually worship many gods and many lords. 6But for us,
There is one God, the Father,
by whom all things were created,
and for whom we live.
And there is one Lord, Jesus Christ,
through whom all things were created,
and through whom we live.
So we see the many lords/gods are false while the One God/Lord created all things, is before all things and is who we live through and by who we live through.
Only someone with presuppositions would read the text any other way to deny Christ of His glory that is equal with the Father.
see John 17:5 and Phil 2- He shares the equal glory, honor, praise, worship with the Father are creator of all things as per Heb 1:8-10 cf Rev 4-5.
hope this helps !!!
1 Cor 8:5-6
There may be so-called gods both in heaven and on earth, and some people actually worship many gods and many lords. 6But for us,
There is one God, the Father,
by whom all things were created,
and for whom we live.
And there is one Lord, Jesus Christ,
through whom all things were created,
and through whom we live.
So we see the many lords/gods are false while the One God/Lord created all things, is before all things and is who we live through and by who we live through.
Only someone with presuppositions would read the text any other way to deny Christ of His glory that is equal with the Father.
see John 17:5 and Phil 2- He shares the equal glory, honor, praise, worship with the Father are creator of all things as per Heb 1:8-10 cf Rev 4-5.
hope this helps !!!
