Understanding........

[TomL]

Exactly it's hid from them. If its hid they cannot believe. So much for your universal ability to believe.

Sorry along with the ability to believe is the ability to not believe

but you did not address the difficulty of your position

Context

2 Corinthians 4:1–4 (KJV 1900) — 1 Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not; 2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God. 3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

The lost here are those who heard the gospel did not believe and were blinded by Satan

not all the unsaved

Verse 4. In whom the god of this world, &c.] We see here that those whose minds are blinded, are they who believe not; and because they believe not, their minds continue in darkness, and are proper subjects for Satan to work on; and he deepens the darkness, and increases the hardness.

Adam Clarke, The Holy Bible with a Commentary and Critical Notes (vol. 6, New Edition.; Bellingham, WA: Faithlife Corporation, 2014), 328.

but the verse involves Calvinism in some difficulties

If man is born totally unable to believe the gospel why would Satan need to blind anyone also if grace is irresistible how could Satan blind anyone

If Christ did not die for the nonelect, of what are they blinded? It cannot be that they are blinded of Christ’s death for them and their need for faith if Christ never died for them. They cannot be blinded in their unbelief because they have nothing to believe or to disbelieve since they have no relationship to Christ’s death!

 

[TomL]

Very true. They were acting as if they were carnal, not they were actually carnal.

Not what it states


1 Corinthians 3:3–4 (KJV 1900) — 3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? 4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

 

[Presby02]

Sorry along with the ability to believe is the ability to not believe

but you did not address the difficulty of your position

Context

2 Corinthians 4:1–4 (KJV 1900) — 1 Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not; 2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God. 3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

The lost here are those who heard the gospel did not believe and were blinded by Satan

not all the unsaved

Verse 4. In whom the god of this world, &c.] We see here that those whose minds are blinded, are they who believe not; and because they believe not, their minds continue in darkness, and are proper subjects for Satan to work on; and he deepens the darkness, and increases the hardness.

Adam Clarke, The Holy Bible with a Commentary and Critical Notes (vol. 6, New Edition.; Bellingham, WA: Faithlife Corporation, 2014), 328.

but the verse involves Calvinism in some difficulties

If man is born totally unable to believe the gospel why would Satan need to blind anyone also if grace is irresistible how could Satan blind anyone

If Christ did not die for the nonelect, of what are they blinded? It cannot be that they are blinded of Christ’s death for them and their need for faith if Christ never died for them. They cannot be blinded in their unbelief because they have nothing to believe or to disbelieve since they have no relationship to Christ’s death!

Sorry. Your avoiding the obvious. If it's hid they CANNOT believe it. God could reveal to them if He so desired. If He chose to draw them so the would come and be raised on the last day.

 

[Presby02]

Not what it states


1 Corinthians 3:3–4 (KJV 1900) — 3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? 4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

That's exactly what it states. If they were actually carnal they could not understand anyway. 1 Corinthians 2:14. What would be the point?

 

[TomL]

That's exactly what it states. If they were actually carnal they could not understand anyway. 1 Corinthians 2:14. What would be the point?

the words are there

"ye are yet carnal"

Why do you deny them?

 

[Presby02]

the words are there

"ye are yet carnal"

Why do you deny them?

1 Corinthians 2:14. If your right Paul is correcting them for something cannot even understand.

The ESV will help you understand.

Is the KJV back to be your favorite? LOL

 

[TomL]

Sorry. Your avoiding the obvious. If it's hid they CANNOT believe it. God could reveal to them if He so desired. If He chose to draw them so the would come and be raised on the last day.

Read again

Sorry along with the ability to believe is the ability to not believe

but you did not address the difficulty of your position

Context

2 Corinthians 4:1–4 (KJV 1900) — 1 Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not; 2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God. 3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

The lost here are those who heard the gospel did not believe and were blinded by Satan

not all the unsaved

Verse 4. In whom the god of this world, &c.] We see here that those whose minds are blinded, are they who believe not; and because they believe not, their minds continue in darkness, and are proper subjects for Satan to work on; and he deepens the darkness, and increases the hardness.

Adam Clarke, The Holy Bible with a Commentary and Critical Notes (vol. 6, New Edition.; Bellingham, WA: Faithlife Corporation, 2014), 328.

but the verse involves Calvinism in some difficulties

If man is born totally unable to believe the gospel why would Satan need to blind anyone also if grace is irresistible how could Satan blind anyone

If Christ did not die for the nonelect, of what are they blinded? It cannot be that they are blinded of Christ’s death for them and their need for faith if Christ never died for them. They cannot be blinded in their unbelief because they have nothing to believe or to disbelieve since they have no relationship to Christ’s death!

 

[Presby02]

Read again

Sorry along with the ability to believe is the ability to not believe

but you did not address the difficulty of your position

Context

2 Corinthians 4:1–4 (KJV 1900) — 1 Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not; 2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God. 3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

The lost here are those who heard the gospel did not believe and were blinded by Satan

not all the unsaved

Verse 4. In whom the god of this world, &c.] We see here that those whose minds are blinded, are they who believe not; and because they believe not, their minds continue in darkness, and are proper subjects for Satan to work on; and he deepens the darkness, and increases the hardness.

Adam Clarke, The Holy Bible with a Commentary and Critical Notes (vol. 6, New Edition.; Bellingham, WA: Faithlife Corporation, 2014), 328.

but the verse involves Calvinism in some difficulties

If man is born totally unable to believe the gospel why would Satan need to blind anyone also if grace is irresistible how could Satan blind anyone

If Christ did not die for the nonelect, of what are they blinded? It cannot be that they are blinded of Christ’s death for them and their need for faith if Christ never died for them. They cannot be blinded in their unbelief because they have nothing to believe or to disbelieve since they have no relationship to Christ’s death!

Already responded to. See post # 444

 

[Presby02]

Read again

Sorry along with the ability to believe is the ability to not believe

but you did not address the difficulty of your position

Context

2 Corinthians 4:1–4 (KJV 1900) — 1 Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not; 2 But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God. 3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

The lost here are those who heard the gospel did not believe and were blinded by Satan

not all the unsaved

Verse 4. In whom the god of this world, &c.] We see here that those whose minds are blinded, are they who believe not; and because they believe not, their minds continue in darkness, and are proper subjects for Satan to work on; and he deepens the darkness, and increases the hardness.

Adam Clarke, The Holy Bible with a Commentary and Critical Notes (vol. 6, New Edition.; Bellingham, WA: Faithlife Corporation, 2014), 328.

but the verse involves Calvinism in some difficulties

If man is born totally unable to believe the gospel why would Satan need to blind anyone also if grace is irresistible how could Satan blind anyone

If Christ did not die for the nonelect, of what are they blinded? It cannot be that they are blinded of Christ’s death for them and their need for faith if Christ never died for them. They cannot be blinded in their unbelief because they have nothing to believe or to disbelieve since they have no relationship to Christ’s death!

Your born a unbeliever. No ability necessary

 

[TomL]

1 Corinthians 2:14. If your right Paul is correcting them for something cannot even understand.

The ESV will help you understand.

Is the KJV back to be your favorite? LOL

1cor 2:14 refers to that which is hidden in the mind of God not that which is revealed

1 Corinthians 2:10–12 (ESV) — 10 these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God. 11 For who knows a person’s thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God.

 

[Presby02]

the words are there

"ye are yet carnal"

Why do you deny them?

ESV "as people of the flesh", not actually yet in the flesh.

 

[TomL]

Already responded to. See post # 444

Sorry you never addressed the difficulties of your position

but the verse involves Calvinism in some difficulties

If man is born totally unable to believe the gospel why would Satan need to blind anyone also if grace is irresistible how could Satan blind anyone

If Christ did not die for the nonelect, of what are they blinded? It cannot be that they are blinded of Christ’s death for them and their need for faith if Christ never died for them. They cannot be blinded in their unbelief because they have nothing to believe or to disbelieve since they have no relationship to Christ’s death!

 

[TomL]

Your born a unbeliever. No ability necessary

Being ignorant is not the same as being informed and rejecting the truth

 

[TomL]

ESV "as people of the flesh", not actually yet in the flesh.

1 Corinthians 3:1–3 (NASB 2020) — 1 And I, brothers and sisters, could not speak to you as spiritual people, but only as fleshly, as to infants in Christ. 2 I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to consume it. But even now you are not yet able, 3 for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like ordinary people?

1 Corinthians 3:3 (ESV) — 3 for you are still of the flesh. For while there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not of the flesh and behaving only in a human way?

 

[Presby02]

Being ignorant is not the same as being informed and rejecting the truth

Sure it is. If your ignorant your unable. Hence 1 Corinthians 2.

 

[Presby02]

1 Corinthians 3:1–3 (NASB 2020) — 1 And I, brothers and sisters, could not speak to you as spiritual people, but only as fleshly, as to infants in Christ. 2 I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to consume it. But even now you are not yet able, 3 for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like ordinary people?

"only as fleshly", not actually in the flesh. They acting fleshly, not Spiritually. It's so obvious. But you will go on and on and on and on ..........

 

[TomL]

Sure it is. If your ignorant your unable. Hence 1 Corinthians 2.

sorry no they are not the same

An ignorant person can neither reject or believe

An informed person can do either

 

[Presby02]

sorry no they are not the same

An ignorant person can neither reject or believe

An informed person can do either

 

[Presby02]

Especially when informed by the Spirit right ? 1 Corinthians 2.

Until you are you are unable

 

[TomL]

Especially when informed by the Spirit right ? 1 Corinthians 2.

Until you are you are unable

If you allude to

1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV 1900) — 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

You misinterpret the verse

It has to do with that which is hidden in the mind f of God

1 Corinthians 2:11–12 (KJV 1900) — 11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.