The Old Testament: Obsolete and Embarrassing or still valid today?

[jeremiah1five]

You keep running away from the fact that Gentiles are now grafted into the New Covenant through the Eucharistic Blood of Christ. The grafting of Ruth into Jesus' lineage was an OT foreshadowing. What greater honor is there than to receive the Body and Blood of Christ at the New Covenant Eucharistic Supper? Since your Ethnic-Cleansing Judaizing spirit is clearly livid about that, I would highly suggest that you promptly proceed to give him the boot.

The ONLY people God Himself referred to as an Olive tree is Israel. He never called non-Hebrew Gentiles, those unclean, uncircumcised Philistines of a people as Olive tree. God would not call national symbol for Israel the Olive tree and call non-Hebrews an Olive tree. Those that were disobedient of the Hebrew people were also grafted in again because God made them obedient.
No, it wasn't Ruth that foreshadowed a people being grafted into the Olive tree but disobedient Hebrews as the Olive tree symbolized national Israel, not non-Hebrew Gentiles for God never called any non-Hebrew Gentile an Olive tree. God would be violating His Word, and you cannot make Him violate His Word. God is not a man that He should lie, but men are. They are liars through and through for every thought of his heart is only evil continually.

No, the foreshadowing of "Gentiles" is found in the Samaritans, not Ruth. Ruth was NOT Abraham's seed. She was the seed of Lot, Abraham's nephew and son of his brother, Haran (Gen. 11:27.) Not only is your doctrine unscriptural but your genealogy is also lacking. Ruth may have been recipient of the blessings of Boaz, Ruth's husband for he was a seed of Abraham and although not in covenant with God through seed she was blessed because Boaz was blessed. Marrying a non-Hebrew Gentile does not make a person included in the Abraham covenant. Scripture does not teach such a thing. One must be born of Abraham's seed to be in covenant by birth and ONLY birth even if the person is half-Hebrew and half-Gentile just as the Samaritans were. The woman at the well in John 4 shows this to be true.
Nor does a non-Hebrew Gentile become a Hebrew covenant member because of eating the wafer. There's too much Roman Catholicism in your theology that needs correction.

When God finally fulfills His Promise to Abraham where a home is concerned it will be the giving of land to Abraham and his seed the area described in Genesis 15 and there will be no non-Hebrew Gentiles living in that land for God Himself will cleanse the land of ALL non-Hebrew Gentiles merely for the fact that the land did not belong to these non-covenant, uncircumcised, Philistines and they have no claim to it (and I doubt the Hebrews will want them living there and this means they will live outside of this Promised land and take a read at what happens to them in Revelation 20:7-10.

Wow!

 

[DavidTree]

Yes, I wish you would stay on the original question until we come to terms on that. You asked me about Melchizedek and the Book of Hebrews. I answered, and then you implied that Jeremiah and I were lying, and you tried to connect the first of the Feasts of the Lord, the Statute of Passover, with the Levitical Priesthood burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin. I pointed the biblical Truth out to you, that Passover was a memorial that pointed to the Lamb of God which would be slain, and His Blood made available for men who would follow God's Instruction regarding it. And was completely separate from the sacrifices for sin included in the Levitical Priesthood Covenant that God promised to change.

So now you have completely left off your original question concerning the Sacrifices spoken of in the Book of Hebrews, and the change in the Priesthood "After the Order of Aaron, to the Prophesied Priesthood "after the order of Melchizedek". And you have changed the discussion to Passover which was never connected with the Levitical Priesthood and was only mentioned ONE time in the entire Book of Hebrews.

Heb. 11: 24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter; 25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season; 26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward. 27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible. 28 Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.

I'm not sure what your point is as of yet, but are you preaching that when the "works" of the Levitical Priesthood became old and passed away, that the Statute of Passover also passed away?

Yes or No!



Paul teaches me;

1 Cor. 9: 9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen? 10 Or saith he it altogether "for our sakes"? For our sakes, no doubt, "this is written": that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.

Consider what is written here? Is this Law written for me, even if I don't have an ox?

Does God care about feeding people sheep? Or is the Passover written for our sake? According to Paul, they Passover was written for our sakes no doubt.

Passover is a memorial, a Feast of the Lord. I posted God's Own Words in which HE tells you this. Jesus observed the Passover even after HE was anointed High Priest by a true Levite Priest, John the Baptist, "To fulfill all righteousness".

Did He kill a goat when HE forgave sins? Did HE demand that sinners bring a bull to Him for their sins, and kill it? HE never did any of these works of the Levitical Priesthood.

But did HE partake of the Statute of God called "Passover"? Including eating the unblemished lamb for over 30 years? And what did HE say at the "Last Supper" HE had with His Disciples? Did He tell them, "you are no longer to observe the Statute of Passover because it has grown old and ready to vanish?

No, here is what HE told them.

Luke 22: 15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:

16 For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.

17 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves:

18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.

19 And he took "bread", (Unleavened) and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: "this do" in remembrance of me. (A memorial)

Ex. 12: 25 And it shall come to pass, when ye (Studyman) be come to the land which the LORD will give you, according as he hath promised, "that ye shall keep this service".

26 And it shall come to pass, when your children shall say unto you, "What mean ye by this service"?

27 That ye (Studyman) shall say, It is "the sacrifice of the LORD'S passover", who passed over the houses of the children of Israel in Egypt, when he smote the Egyptians, and delivered our houses. And the people bowed the head and worshipped.

For this reason, for me the unblemished Lamb signified the Lord's Christ, as the Scriptures I posted, but you didn't acknowledge, clearly show.

I answered, and then you implied that Jeremiah and I were lying,

i apologize if it came across that way

What about the scripture Itself???

The LORD said we are to believe every word that proceeds from the Mouth of God = Matt 4:4

God, Christ, the Holy Spirit, the OT prophets and the Apostles ONLY speak of two covenants!!!

Why are you intent of CHANGING that?

Throwing a page of scripture is usually a sign of avoiding what God has spoken = Two Covenants

Genesis shows only Two Covenants that pertain to Salvation/Yeshua HaMashiach

We have no obligation to believe that which is contrary to scripture.

Prophet Jeremiah 31:31 = Two Covenants
“Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

Hebrews 8:7 - "For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second."

If you cannot post a SINGLE scripture that proclaims more then Two Covenants pertaining to Salvation/Yeshua - what then are you DOING?

 

[synergy]

The ONLY people God Himself referred to as an Olive tree is Israel. He never called non-Hebrew Gentiles, those unclean, uncircumcised Philistines of a people as Olive tree. God would not call national symbol for Israel the Olive tree and call non-Hebrews an Olive tree. Those that were disobedient of the Hebrew people were also grafted in again because God made them obedient.
No, it wasn't Ruth that foreshadowed a people being grafted into the Olive tree but disobedient Hebrews as the Olive tree symbolized national Israel, not non-Hebrew Gentiles for God never called any non-Hebrew Gentile an Olive tree. God would be violating His Word, and you cannot make Him violate His Word. God is not a man that He should lie, but men are. They are liars through and through for every thought of his heart is only evil continually.

No, the foreshadowing of "Gentiles" is found in the Samaritans, not Ruth. Ruth was NOT Abraham's seed. She was the seed of Lot, Abraham's nephew and son of his brother, Haran (Gen. 11:27.) Not only is your doctrine unscriptural but your genealogy is also lacking. Ruth may have been recipient of the blessings of Boaz, Ruth's husband for he was a seed of Abraham and although not in covenant with God through seed she was blessed because Boaz was blessed. Marrying a non-Hebrew Gentile does not make a person included in the Abraham covenant. Scripture does not teach such a thing. One must be born of Abraham's seed to be in covenant by birth and ONLY birth even if the person is half-Hebrew and half-Gentile just as the Samaritans were. The woman at the well in John 4 shows this to be true.
Nor does a non-Hebrew Gentile become a Hebrew covenant member because of eating the wafer. There's too much Roman Catholicism in your theology that needs correction.

Between the sacred New Covenant Blood and Body of Christ and your Judaizing words, I choose Christ. Sorry.

BTW, I am not Catholic; although, I would much rather be a Catholic than a Judaizer.

When God finally fulfills His Promise to Abraham where a home is concerned it will be the giving of land to Abraham and his seed the area described in Genesis 15 and there will be no non-Hebrew Gentiles living in that land for God Himself will cleanse the land of ALL non-Hebrew Gentiles merely for the fact that the land did not belong to these non-covenant, uncircumcised, Philistines and they have no claim to it (and I doubt the Hebrews will want them living there and this means they will live outside of this Promised land and take a read at what happens to them in Revelation 20:7-10.

Wow!

I see that you quoted Rev 20:7-10 that reveals when and where your Judaizing Ethnic-Cleansing spirit will finally be done away with. Until then, we'll have to make sure he does not get the upper hand as he has with you.

 

[Peterlag]

And the "All Scripture" Saul referred to is the Law, the Psalms, and the Prophets. Without this no one can be saved.

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, and for correction."

It's true the Word of God was written for everyone for all time, and it's for our learning because it contains what everyone should know. That does not mean every part of it is addressed to everyone in this time, because the subject matter was written either to the Jews, to the Gentiles, or to the Church of God (1 Corinthians 10:32).

 

[Studyman]

i apologize if it came across that way

What about the scripture Itself???

The LORD said we are to believe every word that proceeds from the Mouth of God = Matt 4:4

No my friend, that is not what the scriptures say. Here, lets read them together.

Matt. 4: 4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not "live by" bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

To "live by" something, one must understand it.

God, Christ, the Holy Spirit, the OT prophets and the Apostles ONLY speak of two covenants!!!

Yes, the Covenant that came out of Sinai, that Israel lived under until the Messiah should appear. "After those days" God promised to "Change" "that Covenant". This doesn't make void the Biblical Fact that after the Golden calf, there was NO Covenant with Israel, NO established pathway for atonement. If Moses had not interceded on Israel's behalf, the Jews would have been called "The children of Moses". I posted God's Words describing these Truths, and yet, you are not influenced by them.

Why are you intent of CHANGING that?

I'm not changing anything. I posted the Scriptures, for your review and discussion, and you have refused to even acknowledge them. Why are you doing that?

Throwing a page of scripture is usually a sign of avoiding what God has spoken = Two Covenants

Can you show me the Words of God in which HE teaches you this? I would be interested in seeing how addressing what God has actually inspired to be written, is avoiding what God has actually written. Thaks in advance.

Genesis shows only Two Covenants that pertain to Salvation/Yeshua HaMashiach

God doesn't tell us in the Promise of a changed Covenant, that it was one HE made with Abraham or anyone in Genesis.

We have no obligation to believe that which is contrary to scripture.

Then why are you promoting doctrines which are contrary to Scriptures?

Prophet Jeremiah 31:31 = Two Covenants
“Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord.

There are many Covenants with God. What covenant is HE speaking to here? This would be the "ONLY" Covenant that came out of Mt. Sinai. I posted God's Own Words regarding this very "Covenant", why won't you consider them?

But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord.

And in the Covenant that came out of Mt. Sinai, how was God's People to receive God's Laws? Did they not receive God's Laws through the Levitical Priesthood?

Heb. 7: 11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people "received the law",) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

Do we still go to a Levite Priest to "Hear Moses and the Prophets" as they define God's Laws for us? No! We have the Oracles of God in our own homes, in our own hearts, just as God promised. I am no longer required to go find some random Levite Priest or preacher to hear God's Laws. HE has provided them to me in front of my own eyes, in my own home, in my own heart.

For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

And before "After those days", how were the sins of man forgiven? Was I not required to go to a Levite Priest and kill a goat or bullock, in which the Levite priest would take the blood and sprinkle it on an alter before God in order to provide for the forgiveness of my sins?

How are sins forgiven since the Lamb of God has come? Do we still engage in these "works of the law" for remission of sins?

Hebrews 8:7 - "For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second."

Heb. 8: 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. 8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Finding Fault with who? Should I not read chapter 7, before I read chapter 8?

Heb. 7: 23 And they truly were many priests, (In the Covenant that came out of Sinai) because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:

24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.

25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. (Whereas Moses died and is still buried)

26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;

27 Who needeth not daily, "as those high priests", to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.

28 For the (Priesthood) law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; (First Covenant) but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore. (Second Covenant)

If you cannot post a SINGLE scripture that proclaims more then Two Covenants pertaining to Salvation/Yeshua - what then are you DOING?

I posted God's Word in Ex. 32. But I can't make you consider them. I would advise you to seek Biblical Truth, and not justification for an adopted religious philosophy.

 

[DavidTree]

No my friend, that is not what the scriptures say. Here, lets read them together.

Matt. 4: 4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not "live by" bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

To "live by" something, one must understand it.




Yes, the Covenant that came out of Sinai, that Israel lived under until the Messiah should appear. "After those days" God promised to "Change" "that Covenant". This doesn't make void the Biblical Fact that after the Golden calf, there was NO Covenant with Israel, NO established pathway for atonement. If Moses had not interceded on Israel's behalf, the Jews would have been called "The children of Moses". I posted God's Words describing these Truths, and yet, you are not influenced by them.



I'm not changing anything. I posted the Scriptures, for your review and discussion, and you have refused to even acknowledge them. Why are you doing that?



Can you show me the Words of God in which HE teaches you this? I would be interested in seeing how addressing what God has actually inspired to be written, is avoiding what God has actually written. Thaks in advance.



God doesn't tell us in the Promise of a changed Covenant, that it was one HE made with Abraham or anyone in Genesis.




Then why are you promoting doctrines which are contrary to Scriptures?



There are many Covenants with God. What covenant is HE speaking to here? This would be the "ONLY" Covenant that came out of Mt. Sinai. I posted God's Own Words regarding this very "Covenant", why won't you consider them?



And in the Covenant that came out of Mt. Sinai, how was God's People to receive God's Laws? Did they not receive God's Laws through the Levitical Priesthood?

Heb. 7: 11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people "received the law",) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

Do we still go to a Levite Priest to "Hear Moses and the Prophets" as they define God's Laws for us? No! We have the Oracles of God in our own homes, in our own hearts, just as God promised. I am no longer required to go find some random Levite Priest or preacher to hear God's Laws. HE has provided them to me in front of my own eyes, in my own home, in my own heart.



And before "After those days", how were the sins of man forgiven? Was I not required to go to a Levite Priest and kill a goat or bullock, in which the Levite priest would take the blood and sprinkle it on an alter before God in order to provide for the forgiveness of my sins?

How are sins forgiven since the Lamb of God has come? Do we still engage in these "works of the law" for remission of sins?



Heb. 8: 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. 8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Finding Fault with who? Should I not read chapter 7, before I read chapter 8?

Heb. 7: 23 And they truly were many priests, (In the Covenant that came out of Sinai) because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:

24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.

25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. (Whereas Moses died and is still buried)

26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;

27 Who needeth not daily, "as those high priests", to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.

28 For the (Priesthood) law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; (First Covenant) but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore. (Second Covenant)



I posted God's Word in Ex. 32. But I can't make you consider them. I would advise you to seek Biblical Truth, and not justification for an adopted religious philosophy.

Another FULL page


a.) Please post just one scripture from the Book of Exodus that proclaims a singular "Lamb"(capitalized) that covered the ENTIRE nation of Israel
AT THAT SPECIFIC MOMENT in FACTUAL HISTORY from the Book of Exodus.

b.) i am very familiar with Hebrews and if you would like to go there - FINE - but FIRST provide evidence for (a) - Thank You

c.) To "live by" something, one must understand it." = Not at FIRST = GOD never said we must first understand His Word

Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God;
and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

FAITH comes BEFORE "understanding" = Hebrews ch11

verse 1 - Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

verse 2 - By faith we understand............

When we allow the Holy Spirit to prioritize the Order of scripture, and we have 'faith' in His Order, then and only then will understanding follow!

i am getting to your question but i need your cooperation on having faith in "It is written".

SHALOM

 

[jeremiah1five]

Between the sacred New Covenant Blood and Body of Christ and your Judaizing words, I choose Christ. Sorry.

So did the Jewish people. In the Old Covenant scrolls the term for those awaiting the coming of the Messiah prophesied by Moses in the book of Deuteronomy were Christian who generation after generation hoped for God to send His Messiah and Kinsman-Redeemer to deliver His people from all their enemies. This was fulfilled by Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God.

BTW, I am not Catholic; although, I would much rather be a Catholic than a Judaizer.

That figures. Catholics reject the Scriptures and prefer the church to decide their doctrine for the individual while Judaizers received their Scripture - even in Babylon - and without a Tabernacle or Temple in which to rightly practice their religion before God and instead could only maintain their faith in God through the tribe of Judah who were strongest of all the tribes and who God used to maintain their covenant. You should do more study in where and how Judaism developed because if you begin your search of its history in the first century AD you will end up with that antisemitic spirit you possess in your deceived heart and mind. Jesus never spoke against Judaism. He spoke against the religious leaders who elevated the traditions of their elders above the Word of God for there were synagogues that held firmly to the Law of Moses despite your ignorance. Saul was a Judaizer, and so were all the twelve disciples of Jesus. Peter and James were the worst and the last to come around to accepting Samaritans and other mixed-heritage Hebrews into the Church. When a Jew became born again, they continued faithfully in the Law of Moses as did Saul and the other born-again disciples of Jesus Christ. Know one thing. Jesus was a Rabbi. Why isn't there any history as to how He got that title? Comparing what Jesus taught and what Pharisees taught it is true Jesus' teaching is closely related to Pharisee teaching.

I see that you quoted Rev 20:7-10 that reveals when and where your Judaizing Ethnic-Cleansing spirit will finally be done away with. Until then, we'll have to make sure he does not get the upper hand as he has with you.

No, Revelation 20:7-10 shows the end of Gentiles and those that survived Jesus' coming.

 

[jeremiah1five]

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, and for correction."

It's true the Word of God was written for everyone for all time, and it's for our learning because it contains what everyone should know. That does not mean every part of it is addressed to everyone in this time, because the subject matter was written either to the Jews, to the Gentiles, or to the Church of God (1 Corinthians 10:32).

The "All Scripture" Saul is referring to are the Hebrew Scripture of Law, Psalms, and Prophets. The Word of God was written to and for the Hebrew people and NOT to non-covenant, idol-worshiping, uncircumcised, non-Hebrew Gentiles. Not even God gives that which is Holy (His Word) to dogs (Gentiles), nor casts His Pearl (His Word) to swine (non-covenant Gentiles.)
Holy things for holy people. And take note of what God thinks of those non-covenant, non-Hebrew Gentiles and their nationalism:

17 All nations before him are as nothing;
And they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity.
Isaiah 40:17.

Nothing and vanity. And if you are truly born-again and consider yourself Gentile be aware there just might be a Hebrew parent somewhere in your family ancestry because Jesus said, "Scripture cannot be broken" and Scripture records God having covenant with Abram the Hebrew (Gen. 14:13) and with his seed - NOT with any non-Hebrew Gentiles. Scripture cannot be broken. I'd ask you to provide me with a verse from the Hebrew Scripture of Law, Psalms, and Prophets showing God making covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles or making mention or including non-Hebrew Gentiles in the three Hebrew covenants but I'd be sending you on an empty search for this because frankly, there is nothing in the bible saying God made covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles.
None.
Salvation is of the Jews.
Not Gentiles.

 

[synergy]

So did the Jewish people. In the Old Covenant scrolls the term for those awaiting the coming of the Messiah prophesied by Moses in the book of Deuteronomy were Christian who generation after generation hoped for God to send His Messiah and Kinsman-Redeemer to deliver His people from all their enemies. This was fulfilled by Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God.

Since when did the OT Jews even acknowledge "the sacred New Covenant Blood and Body of Christ"? It is therefore false to say "so did the Jewish people".

That figures. Catholics reject the Scriptures and prefer the church to decide their doctrine for the individual while Judaizers received their Scripture - even in Babylon - and without a Tabernacle or Temple in which to rightly practice their religion before God and instead could only maintain their faith in God through the tribe of Judah who were strongest of all the tribes and who God used to maintain their covenant. You should do more study in where and how Judaism developed because if you begin your search of its history in the first century AD you will end up with that antisemitic spirit you possess in your deceived heart and mind. Jesus never spoke against Judaism. He spoke against the religious leaders who elevated the traditions of their elders above the Word of God for there were synagogues that held firmly to the Law of Moses despite your ignorance. Saul was a Judaizer, and so were all the twelve disciples of Jesus. Peter and James were the worst and the last to come around to accepting Samaritans and other mixed-heritage Hebrews into the Church. When a Jew became born again, they continued faithfully in the Law of Moses as did Saul and the other born-again disciples of Jesus Christ. Know one thing. Jesus was a Rabbi. Why isn't there any history as to how He got that title? Comparing what Jesus taught and what Pharisees taught it is true Jesus' teaching is closely related to Pharisee teaching

Judaizers are those who "who elevated the traditions of their elders above the Word of God". They are the ones, like you, who refuse to acknowledge the New Covenant Eucharist for all Believers, as verified multiple times by the NT.

No, Revelation 20:7-10 shows the end of Gentiles and those that survived Jesus' coming.

False. See how all your theories fall like flies:

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/are-we-under-any-covenants.1539/post-109854

 

[DavidTree]

No my friend, that is not what the scriptures say. Here, lets read them together.

Matt. 4: 4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not "live by" bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

To "live by" something, one must understand it.




Yes, the Covenant that came out of Sinai, that Israel lived under until the Messiah should appear. "After those days" God promised to "Change" "that Covenant". This doesn't make void the Biblical Fact that after the Golden calf, there was NO Covenant with Israel, NO established pathway for atonement. If Moses had not interceded on Israel's behalf, the Jews would have been called "The children of Moses". I posted God's Words describing these Truths, and yet, you are not influenced by them.



I'm not changing anything. I posted the Scriptures, for your review and discussion, and you have refused to even acknowledge them. Why are you doing that?



Can you show me the Words of God in which HE teaches you this? I would be interested in seeing how addressing what God has actually inspired to be written, is avoiding what God has actually written. Thaks in advance.



God doesn't tell us in the Promise of a changed Covenant, that it was one HE made with Abraham or anyone in Genesis.




Then why are you promoting doctrines which are contrary to Scriptures?



There are many Covenants with God. What covenant is HE speaking to here? This would be the "ONLY" Covenant that came out of Mt. Sinai. I posted God's Own Words regarding this very "Covenant", why won't you consider them?



And in the Covenant that came out of Mt. Sinai, how was God's People to receive God's Laws? Did they not receive God's Laws through the Levitical Priesthood?

Heb. 7: 11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people "received the law",) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

Do we still go to a Levite Priest to "Hear Moses and the Prophets" as they define God's Laws for us? No! We have the Oracles of God in our own homes, in our own hearts, just as God promised. I am no longer required to go find some random Levite Priest or preacher to hear God's Laws. HE has provided them to me in front of my own eyes, in my own home, in my own heart.



And before "After those days", how were the sins of man forgiven? Was I not required to go to a Levite Priest and kill a goat or bullock, in which the Levite priest would take the blood and sprinkle it on an alter before God in order to provide for the forgiveness of my sins?

How are sins forgiven since the Lamb of God has come? Do we still engage in these "works of the law" for remission of sins?



Heb. 8: 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. 8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Finding Fault with who? Should I not read chapter 7, before I read chapter 8?

Heb. 7: 23 And they truly were many priests, (In the Covenant that came out of Sinai) because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:

24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.

25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. (Whereas Moses died and is still buried)

26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;

27 Who needeth not daily, "as those high priests", to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.

28 For the (Priesthood) law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; (First Covenant) but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore. (Second Covenant)



I posted God's Word in Ex. 32. But I can't make you consider them. I would advise you to seek Biblical Truth, and not justification for an adopted religious philosophy.

I posted God's Word in Ex. 32. But I can't make you consider them.

There is no "second OLD TESTAMENT covenant" (pertaining to Salvation/Messiah, made in Exodus 32 or anywhere else in OT scripture

When anyone adds to scripture to change what God has spoken they commit a very serious error!
It doe not matter who that person(s) is:
It could be anyone, with any self-professed title such as 'Master of Divinity' or 'Doctor of Divinity' or 'PhD in Escatology'


Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar. - Proverbs 30:5-6

Jeremiah 31:31-34
“Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—
not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers
in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

Do you understand what "in the day" means here???

 

[DavidTree]

Good Morning,
@civic, @Jerimimiah1five

"There is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed"

i have spoken DIRECTLY and OPENLY to everyone on here and there is NO secret whispering behind closed doors! God hates that and so do i.

Everyone is treated with the SAME Holy Spirit Truth from the SAME Holy Scriptures.

You can review all my posts to 'him' and SEE all that i have shared with 'him' and all that 'him' has spoken against the Word of Truth.

Example: John 1:10-13
He(the Word) was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.
He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become sons of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

There is at least one individual who OPPOSES this and every scripture that DECLARES this TRUTH!

From the Holy Scriptures, we SEE that the religious establishment are the majority that rejects those whom God sends with His Holy Spirit.

The TEST to knowing who is speaking the Truth is by comparing 'word for word' what we speak compared to God's precise words.

If 'word for word' AGREES with God's words, then we remain on the Straight Path which leads to Life.

Our Lord Jesus Christ says: "Sanctify them in your truth, your word is truth".

Take your pick EVERYONE - John 17:17 or Proverbs 30:5-6

Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.

 

[Peterlag]

The "All Scripture" Saul is referring to are the Hebrew Scripture of Law, Psalms, and Prophets. The Word of God was written to and for the Hebrew people and NOT to non-covenant, idol-worshiping, uncircumcised, non-Hebrew Gentiles. Not even God gives that which is Holy (His Word) to dogs (Gentiles), nor casts His Pearl (His Word) to swine (non-covenant Gentiles.)
Holy things for holy people. And take note of what God thinks of those non-covenant, non-Hebrew Gentiles and their nationalism:

17 All nations before him are as nothing;
And they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity.
Isaiah 40:17.

Nothing and vanity. And if you are truly born-again and consider yourself Gentile be aware there just might be a Hebrew parent somewhere in your family ancestry because Jesus said, "Scripture cannot be broken" and Scripture records God having covenant with Abram the Hebrew (Gen. 14:13) and with his seed - NOT with any non-Hebrew Gentiles. Scripture cannot be broken. I'd ask you to provide me with a verse from the Hebrew Scripture of Law, Psalms, and Prophets showing God making covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles or making mention or including non-Hebrew Gentiles in the three Hebrew covenants but I'd be sending you on an empty search for this because frankly, there is nothing in the bible saying God made covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles.
None.
Salvation is of the Jews.
Not Gentiles.

I have no idea what you're talking about. There are no more Jews or Gentiles at this time. We are either Christian or unbelievers.

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Since when did the OT Jews even acknowledge "the sacred New Covenant Blood and Body of Christ"? It is therefore false to say "so did the Jewish people".

Don't undersell the Hebrew people in their five thousand years of knowing their God and His Word to them through the prophets He sends them. The Hebrews understood Genesis 3:15 that their Redeemer will be both God and Man. They understood passages like "life is in the blood" and understood the sacrifices they made in obedience to God because God told them what it meant. Their Scripture revealed many, many things to them about this "so-great salvation."

Judaizers are those who "who elevated the traditions of their elders above the Word of God". They are the ones, like you, who refuse to acknowledge the New Covenant Eucharist for all Believers, as verified multiple times by the NT.

New Covenant Eucharist? So, you ARE Catholic.

False. See how all your theories fall like flies:

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/are-we-under-any-covenants.1539/post-109854

 

[jeremiah1five]

I have no idea what you're talking about. There are no more Jews or Gentiles at this time. We are either Christian or unbelievers.

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Galatians 3:28 was written to the Hebrew/Jews in covenant with THEY are the ones under the Law, under the 'schoolmaster.' Pay more attention to what you read because when Saul writes he writes as the rabbi he is and the rabbinical thought behind his words and how he argues points in his letters.

Now, pay attention and learn something.

23 But before faith came, we [JEWS] were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our [JEWS] schoolmaster to bring us [JEWS] unto Christ, that we [JEWS] might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we [JEWS] are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye [JEWS] are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you [JEWS] as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye [JEWS] are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye [STILL JEWS AND] Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Gal. 3:23–29.

Saul was addressing Jewish Christians who were concerned with being a follower of Christ and their standing in the Abraham Covenant because of that. But Saul comforts their anxiety and tells them that being a Christ-follower meant they were still Abraham's seed and "heirs according to the promises [of God.]"
Gentiles were never under the Law. They never were and they never will be.
And the phrase by Saul, "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female" refers to prayers spoken by the rabbi's and Pharisees in the Sanhedrin in which they thank God they were not born a Gentile, or a slave, or a woman, all second-class and even third-class citizens/people.
You need to study more.

 

[synergy]

Don't undersell the Hebrew people in their five thousand years of knowing their God and His Word to them through the prophets He sends them. The Hebrews understood Genesis 3:15 that their Redeemer will be both God and Man. They understood passages like "life is in the blood" and understood the sacrifices they made in obedience to God because God told them what it meant. Their Scripture revealed many, many things to them about this "so-great salvation."

Let's give them another 5000 years and let's see if they can even begin to understand the New Covenant Eucharist/Communion that your favorite Apostle, Paul, speaks of in 1 Cor 11:23-29.

1Co 11:23 For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which he was betrayed took bread;
1Co 11:24 And giving thanks, He broke it and said, "Take, eat; this is My body, which is broken for you; this do in remembrance of Me."
1Co 11:25 In the same way He took the cup also, after supping, saying, "This cup is the New Covenant in My blood; as often as you drink it, do this in remembrance of Me."
1Co 11:26 For "as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you show" the Lord's death until He shall come.
1Co 11:27 So that whoever shall eat this bread and drink this cup of the Lord unworthily, he will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
1Co 11:28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread and drink of that cup.
1Co 11:29 For he who eats and drinks unworthily eats and drinks condemnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

Also:
1Co 10:16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?

New Covenant Eucharist? So, you ARE Catholic.

Nope. Copts, Orthodox, Anglicans, Lutherans, etc... also have Communion/Eucharist. Your ignorance of the New Covenant Communion/Eucharist is so blazingly obvious that I am truly embarrassed for you.

 

[Studyman]

There is no "second OLD TESTAMENT covenant" (pertaining to Salvation/Messiah, made in Exodus 32 or anywhere else in OT scripture

There was only one covenant that came out of Sinai.

When anyone adds to scripture to change what God has spoken they commit a very serious error!

I posted God's Own Inspired Words and was hoping for an honest discussion.

It doe not matter who that person(s) is:
It could be anyone, with any self-professed title such as 'Master of Divinity' or 'Doctor of Divinity' or 'PhD in Escatology'.

Yes, anyone who takes away or adds to the Inspired Words of God is guilty of rebellion.

Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.

Yes, Every Inspired Word of God is pure.

Do not add to His words,

Where did I ever "ADD" to God's Words. I posted scriptures which you ignored.

Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar. - Proverbs 30:5-6

Jeremiah 31:31-34
“Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—
not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers
in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

Do you understand what "in the day" means here???

Jer. 7: 21 "Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel"; Put your burnt offerings unto your sacrifices, and eat flesh. 22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them "in the day" that "I brought them out of the land of Egypt", concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices: 23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.

It's the same God, the Same Jeremiah, speaking to the same Exodus, Same "In the Day" English Translation, and the same ONE Covenant that came out of Sinai.

Can you show me where God commanded Israel "saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you" on the 11 day of the first month. Which is "The Day" God brought Israel out of Egypt.

So either God is Lying, or Jeremiah is Lying, or your interpretation of the English Translation "In the Day" is not the same as God's.

Heb. 9: 1 Then verily the "first covenant" had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. 2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary. 3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;

But David, how can this be true, according to the religion you have adopted and now promoting to others? Where is it found, "In the Day" that God brought Israel out of Egypt, a covenant of ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary, and the shewbread and Tabernacle?

So then, do we add the Hebrews author as liars, along with God and Jeremiah? Or is it possible that you are misunderstanding the Scriptures?

Show me what Covenant God made with Israel "in the 11th Day of the first Month", which is "The Day" God took them by the hand and led them out of Egypt?

Are you then preaching that the only Laws God gave Israel in the "First Covenant" was Passover and Unleavened Bread?

So why then, does Hebrews speak to the Levitical Priesthood, and the offerings and sacrifices for sin, and the Tabernacle, and Shew bread, NONE of which was given to Israel, "In the Day" that God brought them out of Egypt?

Will you answer my questions, as I am answering yours, thus "Doing unto others as you would have them do unto you"?

I guess we will see if you are willing to have an honest discussion of Scriptures, or if you are just here on a mission to promote your own religion.

Think about this a little bit David, and let's talk about it.

 

[Peterlag]

Galatians 3:28 was written to the Hebrew/Jews in covenant with THEY are the ones under the Law, under the 'schoolmaster.' Pay more attention to what you read because when Saul writes he writes as the rabbi he is and the rabbinical thought behind his words and how he argues points in his letters.

Now, pay attention and learn something.

23 But before faith came, we [JEWS] were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our [JEWS] schoolmaster to bring us [JEWS] unto Christ, that we [JEWS] might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we [JEWS] are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye [JEWS] are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you [JEWS] as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye [JEWS] are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye [STILL JEWS AND] Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Gal. 3:23–29.

Saul was addressing Jewish Christians who were concerned with being a follower of Christ and their standing in the Abraham Covenant because of that. But Saul comforts their anxiety and tells them that being a Christ-follower meant they were still Abraham's seed and "heirs according to the promises [of God.]"
Gentiles were never under the Law. They never were and they never will be.
And the phrase by Saul, "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female" refers to prayers spoken by the rabbi's and Pharisees in the Sanhedrin in which they thank God they were not born a Gentile, or a slave, or a woman, all second-class and even third-class citizens/people.
You need to study more.

I pay attention really well. Well enough to know how to read Galatians 1:1 where Paul does not say he's working for the Hebrew Jews. Paul was an Apostle of Jesus Christ.

Galatians 1:1
Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead

 

[DavidTree]

There was only one covenant that came out of Sinai.



I posted God's Own Inspired Words and was hoping for an honest discussion.


Yes, anyone who takes away or adds to the Inspired Words of God is guilty of rebellion.


Yes, Every Inspired Word of God is pure.



Where did I ever "ADD" to God's Words. I posted scriptures which you ignored.


Jer. 7: 21 "Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel"; Put your burnt offerings unto your sacrifices, and eat flesh. 22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them "in the day" that "I brought them out of the land of Egypt", concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices: 23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.

It's the same God, the Same Jeremiah, speaking to the same Exodus, Same "In the Day" English Translation, and the same ONE Covenant that came out of Sinai.

Can you show me where God commanded Israel "saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you" on the 11 day of the first month. Which is "The Day" God brought Israel out of Egypt.

So either God is Lying, or Jeremiah is Lying, or your interpretation of the English Translation "In the Day" is not the same as God's.

Heb. 9: 1 Then verily the "first covenant" had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. 2 For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary. 3 And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;

But David, how can this be true, according to the religion you have adopted and now promoting to others? Where is it found, "In the Day" that God brought Israel out of Egypt, a covenant of ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary, and the shewbread and Tabernacle?

So then, do we add the Hebrews author as liars, along with God and Jeremiah? Or is it possible that you are misunderstanding the Scriptures?

Show me what Covenant God made with Israel "in the 11th Day of the first Month", which is "The Day" God took them by the hand and led them out of Egypt?

Are you then preaching that the only Laws God gave Israel in the "First Covenant" was Passover and Unleavened Bread?

So why then, does Hebrews speak to the Levitical Priesthood, and the offerings and sacrifices for sin, and the Tabernacle, and Shew bread, NONE of which was given to Israel, "In the Day" that God brought them out of Egypt?

Will you answer my questions, as I am answering yours, thus "Doing unto others as you would have them do unto you"?

I guess we will see if you are willing to have an honest discussion of Scriptures, or if you are just here on a mission to promote your own religion.

Think about this a little bit David, and let's talk about it.

Friend,
Take time, no rush, wait on the Lord and you can respond a month from now if you wish.
You are not obligated to respond to me - only to the Lord Jesus Christ.

Here is the scripture that you are adding to, when you say there was a "second" covenant" from God to Moses.

“Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—
not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers
in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt,

Dwell on that and

Shalom

 

[TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY]

Good Morning,
@civic, @Jerimimiah1five

"There is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed"

i have spoken DIRECTLY and OPENLY to everyone on here and there is NO secret whispering behind closed doors! God hates that and so do i.

Everyone is treated with the SAME Holy Spirit Truth from the SAME Holy Scriptures.

You can review all my posts to 'him' and SEE all that i have shared with 'him' and all that 'him' has spoken against the Word of Truth.

Example: John 1:10-13
He(the Word) was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.
He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become sons of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

There is at least one individual who OPPOSES this and every scripture that DECLARES this TRUTH!

From the Holy Scriptures, we SEE that the religious establishment are the majority that rejects those whom God sends with His Holy Spirit.

The TEST to knowing who is speaking the Truth is by comparing 'word for word' what we speak compared to God's precise words.

If 'word for word' AGREES with God's words, then we remain on the Straight Path which leads to Life.

Our Lord Jesus Christ says: "Sanctify them in your truth, your word is truth".

Take your pick EVERYONE - John 17:17 or Proverbs 30:5-6

Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.

Let all who names the name of CHRIST get into the bible for him or hersef and NOW .
men have been decieving us for years . we must learn the bible for ourselves .
I say this out of great love for all the people .

 

[TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY]

Friend,
Take time, no rush, wait on the Lord and you can respond a month from now if you wish.
You are not obligated to respond to me - only to the Lord Jesus Christ.

Here is the scripture that you are adding to, when you say there was a "second" covenant" from God to Moses.

“Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—
not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers
in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt,

Dwell on that and

Shalom

FEAST on that is what i say . too many today are now trying to create this third covenant .
the one that says it dont matter what religoin one is in , just lovey do and hug and etc and all is well .
That thing is an anti christ gospel if i ever seen one .
Its HIGH TIME we remind all that has breath , all that was woman born whether cesearean or natural
Of the absolute dire need FOR BOTH JEW AND GENTILE to BELIEVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST .
Just a friendly reminder to all .