Jer15 will try to convince you that Gentiles need to be Ethnically Cleansed. What a sweet guy.
The Old Testament: Obsolete and Embarrassing or still valid today?
- Thread starter koberstein
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DavidTree
Well-known member
Jer15 will try to convince you that Gentiles need to be Ethnically Cleansed. What a sweet guy.
Yeah, he tried that blasphemy with me.
It is very said for him since he is missing out on Communion with the Holy Spirit that is made void by his hate against "man made in the image of Elohim".
Tragically there is a 'spirit' guiding him BUT it is not the Ruach HaKodesh
DavidTree
Well-known member
That would be wonderful.
I told him many times to give that Judaizing spirit of his the boot.
DavidTree
Well-known member
When he does, he will REJOICE in his Hebrew Messiah, Adonai Yeshua HaMashiach, with his Brethren of ALL nations.
Who, in their RIGHT mind, would want to miss out on this: Revelation 7:9-12
After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” All the angels stood around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, saying:
“Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom,
Thanksgiving and honor and power and might,
Be to our God forever and ever.
Amen.”
I am glad to share.
In the Exodus, God instructed men to obey His commandments and statutes and Laws that Abraham obeyed, for those who partook of the Blood of the Passover Lamb and followed God out of Egypt. Along the way, Israel transgressed a great transgression and created an idol to worship, a golden calf. This action voided the covenant God made with them in the day HE brought them out, and God was going to wipe them all out, and start again with Moses.(Ex. 32) Moses interceded on their behalf and set about to obtain another agreement/covenant. This time, when Moses went up to God for 40 days and 40 nights, God "ADDED" a Law pertaining to atonement of sins which included the sinner bringing a goat or calf or other animals to a Levite Priest, and killing it. Jeremiah speaks to this.
Jer. 7: 22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:
23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.
This "ADDED" Law, (Covenant) AKA, "The Levitical Priesthood" (After the Order of Aaron), described in Lev. 4, was added because of Transgressions, as Paul teaches, and was to be force and effect until the Prophesied Priest "After the Order of Melchizedek" should come.
Ps. 110: 4 The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.
At the arrival of Christ (Deut. 18:18,19), this Priesthood covenant, "after the Order of Aaron", along with its sacrificial "works" for atonement prescribed therein, would become old, and be ready to vanish.
Hebrews 7-10 speak to this Covenant, and prophesied "Change" God foretold in Jeremiah 31. No longer do men go to a Levite Priest to learn about God, we all will have His Oracles in our own homes, and in our own hearts. And no longer do we bring a calf to the Levite Priest to provide for our forgiveness, as God will Himself provide the sacrifice to forgive sins apart from the Levitical Priesthood.
Modern religions, who come in Christ's Name that Jesus warned about, promote the philosophy that the entire Law and Prophets, and the Laws contained therein, was the "ADDED" Law that was abolished at Christ's return. But a study of Scriptures exposes this as a doctrine of man, and not God. The added Law that was to lead men to Christ, the Lamb of God, for atonement/forgiveness, was the Levitical Priesthood.
The Pharisees had created a business selling animals as sacrifice for sins, promoting them as "Works of the Law" for the remission of sins. If Jesus was the Prophesied Messiah, then their Priesthood was ended as prophesied, their wealth and power and their livelihood would come to an end. So they killed Him.
John 11: 47 Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said, What do we? for this man doeth many miracles. 48 If we let him thus alone, all men will believe "on him": and the Romans shall come and take away both "our" place and nation.
Anyway, this is the short version,
Thans again for asking.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
You are the queen of "not answer the question."
But you don't have to now because I know you hold to the violation and breaking of Scripture by your belief that non-Hebrew Gentiles are included in the Abrahamic Covenant - which clearly when God made the covenant in Genesis that He did not include non-Hebrew Gentiles. I take from Scripture what is written, and you add to the bible things that are not there.
Genesis to Malachi records the history of the Hebrew people and their relationship with Creator God and the only mention of non-Hebrew Gentiles is in passing but never as though God has covenant with them. IF God did include Gentiles in any of the three Hebrew covenants or even had a separate covenant with them the bible and human history would look a whole lot different than it turned out and that every time non-Hebrew Gentiles went to war or tried to eradicate the Hebrew people (Islamists, Germany under Hitler), it would be seen as only a family quarrel or covenant skirmishes among one segment of people unrelated to the rest of humankind (Gentiles) who know they are not Hebrew and not involved. To believe that non-Hebrew Gentiles are in the Abraham covenant (funny how that covenant came first before the Mosaic but no non-Hebrew Gentile ever claims to be in the Mosaic covenant and given that fact that there are no non-Hebrew Gentile males who have not become circumcised because of that covenant), so there is a disconnect for non-Hebrew Gentiles jumping over the Mosaic Covenant and the Law of God in order to get to the Abraham covenant because of their not making distinction and rightfully dividing the Word of God in Galatians 3:29 even though the context follows Saul addressing those under the Law in the verses preceding 3:29 which clearly state Saul is addressing his Jewish brethren and those who are under the Law.
There is nothing in Scripture and in reason that God ever made covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles or that they are included in any of the three Hebrew covenants. Your whole belief that they are rests solely on Galatians 3:29 and this because you hold to the false belief that for 1900 years states that the New Covenant writings from Matthew to Revelation was written TO non-Hebrew Gentiles. You are blind to the truth and in your heart or hearts you know it but you're unwilling to come to the light so that your theologies be reproved or corrected as per 2 Tim. 3:16-17.
Everything you believe I used to believe because I was part of the hypocrisy and was as blind as you until the Lord showed me something that NO NON-HEBREW GENTILE can resist nor refute, and that is the fact that for one, Genesis to Malachi, thirty-nine "books", records the history of the Hebrew people and the God who made them and called them to redemption and that the New Covenant writings from Jewish Christian writers, their letters, their gospels, their prophecies, being in a new era and recognizing that new era because of the appearance of their Messiah who claimed many things for Himself initiated a New Covenant with His very own blood and that He was the culmination and fulfillment of many Hebrew prophecies along with being promised by God to and for the Hebrew people was born Jewish and not Gentile whom the angel said would "save His people" (the twelve Hebrew tribes) and for such an earth-shattering advent that changed the course of human history with a view towards the eternal there are no Gentile prophets, no Gentile prophecies, and no Gentile Messiah. It's all about piggybacking on another ethnic peoples' covenant and the borrowing - stealing, actually - everything God gave to Abraham and his seed and making it all Gentile, that it always was Gentile it's just that we didn't know it until Israel's Messiah had come, Israel was taken out of the way, and now that now all the unfulfilled prophecies in the Old Covenant was really meant for non-Hebrew Gentiles and always was it's just that the Hebrew people were only a proxy for four thousand years and that their destruction at the hands of the Romans in 70AD transitioned the covenant began with a Hebrew man (Abraham) and that now Gentiles have rose up to replace Israel to steal away even their future not only their relationship and covenants and terminology and yes, even their history so that Gentiles can make it all their own finally, eternally.
I find such belief sickening.
Because if the roles were reversed and all the non-Hebrew Gentile nations were existing as they are that they would have destroyed little ol' Israel 2000 years ago and there would be no Israel alive today let alone having their own country again and with nuclear weapons ready to utterly destroy anyone who did seek to destroy them but that's not the case. For some unknown reason God has kept this ethnic people alive and hid away in Gentile nations until the call to return back into their own land is made by a God who originally made covenant with this people - three times! - and that when the dust does clear for the last time in this world only One Messiah and One people will be left standing - and they are NOT Gentile but Hebrew.
And where will Gentiles be when this happens?
According to Scripture they will all be living surrounding the nation of Israel.
And we know how that turns out (Rev. 20:7-10.)
You are not a person who is honest with Scripture.
Complete
Well-known member
'All scripture is given by inspiration of God,
and is profitable
.. for doctrine,
.... for reproof,
...... for correction,
........ for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect,
throughly furnished unto all good works.'
(2Tim. 3:16-17)
Hello jeremiah1five,
I leave you in God's merciful care.
In Christ Jesus
Complete
You keep running away from the fact that Gentiles are now grafted into the New Covenant through the Eucharistic Blood of Christ. The grafting of Ruth into Jesus' lineage was an OT foreshadowing. What greater honor is there than to receive the Body and Blood of Christ at the New Covenant Eucharistic Supper? Since your Ethnic-Cleansing Judaizing spirit is clearly livid about that, I would highly suggest that you promptly proceed to give him the boot.
DavidTree
Well-known member
BIG THANK YOU for taking time to share!I am glad to share.
In the Exodus, God instructed men to obey His commandments and statutes and Laws that Abraham obeyed, for those who partook of the Blood of the Passover Lamb and followed God out of Egypt. Along the way, Israel transgressed a great transgression and created an idol to worship, a golden calf. This action voided the covenant God made with them in the day HE brought them out, and God was going to wipe them all out, and start again with Moses.(Ex. 32) Moses interceded on their behalf and set about to obtain another agreement/covenant. This time, when Moses went up to God for 40 days and 40 nights, God "ADDED" a Law pertaining to atonement of sins which included the sinner bringing a goat or calf or other animals to a Levite Priest, and killing it. Jeremiah speaks to this.
Jer. 7: 22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:
23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.
This "ADDED" Law, (Covenant) AKA, "The Levitical Priesthood" (After the Order of Aaron), described in Lev. 4, was added because of Transgressions, as Paul teaches, and was to be force and effect until the Prophesied Priest "After the Order of Melchizedek" should come.
Ps. 110: 4 The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.
At the arrival of Christ (Deut. 18:18,19), this Priesthood covenant, "after the Order of Aaron", along with its sacrificial "works" for atonement prescribed therein, would become old, and be ready to vanish.
Hebrews 7-10 speak to this Covenant, and prophesied "Change" God foretold in Jeremiah 31. No longer do men go to a Levite Priest to learn about God, we all will have His Oracles in our own homes, and in our own hearts. And no longer do we bring a calf to the Levite Priest to provide for our forgiveness, as God will Himself provide the sacrifice to forgive sins apart from the Levitical Priesthood.
Modern religions, who come in Christ's Name that Jesus warned about, promote the philosophy that the entire Law and Prophets, and the Laws contained therein, was the "ADDED" Law that was abolished at Christ's return. But a study of Scriptures exposes this as a doctrine of man, and not God. The added Law that was to lead men to Christ, the Lamb of God, for atonement/forgiveness, was the Levitical Priesthood.
The Pharisees had created a business selling animals as sacrifice for sins, promoting them as "Works of the Law" for the remission of sins. If Jesus was the Prophesied Messiah, then their Priesthood was ended as prophesied, their wealth and power and their livelihood would come to an end. So they killed Him.
John 11: 47 Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said, What do we? for this man doeth many miracles. 48 If we let him thus alone, all men will believe "on him": and the Romans shall come and take away both "our" place and nation.
Anyway, this is the short version,
Thans again for asking.
i would like to just take aspect of your post at a time to compare scripture to scripture.
#1.) Hebrews 6:18 - "that by two immutable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie, we might have strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold of the hope set before us."
#2.) In FACT, God did instruct them to sacrifice just as you noted: exodus/passover lambs, one for EACH household, to be sacrificed and it's blood placed on the both sides of the door(doorposts) and the lintle(top of door) = forming the shape of 'the Cross'.
3.) There is no capital letter for "blood or lamb" in the exodus/passover because there were hundreds if not thousands of lambs sacrificed.
4.) The exodus passover is a foreshadow of the True Lamb the takes away the sins of the world = John1:29
"Behold the Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world." = One Lamb that is a flesh & blood Man that is without "spot or blemish".
5.) Even if the children of Israel did not rebel in the wilderness, there would of been the animal sacrifices BECAUSE those little lambs of passover could never take away their sins.
6.) There were not two covenants made by God with the children of Israel = ONLY ONE = Hebrews 8:7
"For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second."
This is CONFIRMED by the HOLY SPIRIT speaking thru the prophet Jeremiah = Jeremiah 31:31
Special Awareness/WAKE UP CALL to @Studyman @koberstein
Jeremiah is the SAME old covenant Hebrew prophet who spoke in chapter 7 as in chapter 31 of the 'Book of Jeremiah the prophet'.
"“Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord.
Hebrews 8:7 - "For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a Second.
@Studyman @koberstein , i will continue to examine Post 146 but only by taking one claritive at a time.
Invitation to @koberstein: Are you still here? or are you intentionally avoiding true Jewish fellowship in the Ruach HaKodesh?
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Well you are not exactly factual here. Even Abraham and Abel offered a sacrifices to God. The Lamb was 1 for each household, and they killed it in their own homes, and ate it themselves. The 2 door posts and lintel do not make a cross, rather they represent the Blood (Life) of the Unblemished Lamb, (the Christ) in our mind (Lintel) and our walk and works (two door posts). This was the beginning of their exodus, followed by 7 days of Unleavened bread, signifying a new life, or the "new man" without sin.
This was to be done once a year in remembrance of what God did for these people.
Ex. 12:26 And it shall come to pass, when your children shall say unto you, What mean ye by this service? 27 That ye shall say, It is the sacrifice of the LORD'S passover, who passed over the houses of the children of Israel in Egypt, when he smote the Egyptians, and delivered our houses. And the people bowed the head and worshipped.
There is no mention at all or a command at all, they bring a bullock or young goat after a Sin had been discovered in a person, and kill it before the Levite Priest in the Temple of God, or that the Priest would take the blood of the bull or goat, and sprinkle it on the alter, and offer it to God, in order to provide forgiveness. And the meat was not eaten at all by the sinner who brought the sacrifice, each time a Sin had been brought to his attention.
So Jeremiah remains truthful, God is not a liar, and the Passover is a Statute of God that even Abraham partook of, given to Israel prior to even the 10 Commandments.
Gen. 22: 8 And Abraham said, My son, God will "provide himself" a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.
13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram (Male Sheep) caught in a thicket (Of thorns?) by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering "in the stead of his son".
Is this not representative of God sacrificing His Own Son Jesus, to save Abraham's Son?
Again, it was a Memorial of a Great event, when God protected those who would, in effect, Spiritually, "Eat the flesh of Christ, and drink the Blood of Christ" from the same destruction and curses that came to those who promoted other gods.
There was no Levite Priest, no Temple, no Alter. These temporary Laws were not "ADDED" until after Israel Transgressed.
Yes, this is true. But Paul was adamant that we be not ignorant of what happened in the examples God had written for us. Please consider his warnings.
1 Cor. 10: 1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat "the same spiritual meat"; ,
Does this not represent the Passover Lamb?
4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink:
Does this not represent the Blood of the Christ?
for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
6 Now these things were "our examples", to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
So yes, the Passover Lamb's Blood was shed for the sins of the world, but not everyone who calls Jesus Lord, Lord, shall enter the Kingdom of Heaven. As God Himself, through those HE sent to us, has said to both you and I;
1 Sam. 15: 22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.
Nevertheless, Passover had nothing whatsoever to do with the Levitical Priesthood. It was instituted as a Statute of God before the Levitical Priesthood "Burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin" was instituted.
This is simply Biblical Fact.
Please read Ex. 32. The first Covenant was gone, God was going to wipe Israel out and start over with Moses. And God can not lie, as you have correctly stated.
Ex. 32: 9 And the LORD said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people: 10 Now therefore let me alone, "that my wrath may wax hot against them", and that I may consume them: and I will make "of thee" a great nation.
Where is the Covenant God made with Israel now? It is gone, but Moses pleaded with God, "14 And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people."
The Covenant which resulted, in which sacrifices and burnt offering for sins was "ADDED" to God's Commandments, Statutes, and Judgments became the Covenant they were to lived under, until the Prophesied Priest of God, after the Order of Melchizedek, should come.
Hebrews 8: 9 Not according to the covenant "that I made with their fathers" in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; "because" they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
This is the "First Covenant" that "Commanded" burnt offerings and sacrifices for sins. You can read it for yourself.
And Jeremiah confirms this undeniable Biblical Fact.
Jer. 7: 21 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Put your burnt offerings unto your sacrifices, and eat flesh.
22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:
23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, "and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people": and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.
24 "But they hearkened not", nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward.
What you are missing in your understanding, is the Biblical fact that Israel broke the Covenant God Gave them, and created a golden calf to worship. At that point, according to God, there was no Covenant with them, only Moses, Caleb and Joshua. And when Moses said, "26 Then Moses stood in the gate of the camp, and said, Who is on the LORD'S side? let him come unto me. And all "the sons of Levi" gathered themselves together unto him. Which is why Levi was still considered to minister before God in the Priesthood.
30 And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses said unto the people, Ye have sinned a great sin: "and now I will go up unto the LORD"; peradventure I shall make an atonement for your sin.
There was NO SACRIFICE for their sins here, the blood of the Passover Lamb, rejected. NO CALL to offer sacrifices and offerings for their sins.
I know the religions of this world do not believe much of what is written, and their doctrines do not align with what is actually written.
My hope is that you will consider what is actually written, and upon hearing His Words, believe them.
As it is also written, "While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
DavidTree
Well-known member
i truly appreciate your thoroughness of looking at many scriptures = i am with you on that!
PLEASE take on one principal/thought/communication at a time.
Example: you capitalize and make singular: "Lamb"
There was no "Lamb" in the "first covenant".
These were actual/factual four footed young animals: the offspring of adult sheep = "lambs"
The only singularity was that only one animal/lamb per household was required for the thousands of sacrifices that took place that night.
Thousands of Hebrew households in Egypt under Moses REQUIRED thousands of four footed animal sacrifices, and these animals are called 'lambs'.
There is no single "Lamb" under Moses and the first passover.
This is the FACTUAL Historic account given to us in Scripture.
Do you:
a.) AGREE
b.) Disagree
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
And the Hebrews in Jerusalem were using what? The Septuagint? No, they were not using that. They had the original texts of the Hebrew Scripture in scrolls. Jesus quoted Isaiah 61 out of their original Hebrew texts. The first Jews that was baptized into the Jewish Church Jesus promised to build became Christians, and this occurred daily in the thousands throughout the Roman Empire because it was Jews that returned to their homes and synagogues after visiting Jerusalem for their Feast of Harvest.
Since a remnant (10%) of Jews returned to their land with leave from Cyrus of Babylon the majority of Jews did not and remained in Babylon and every Gentile city and towns in-between amounted to about 90% of all Jews living at the time. These may have used the Septuagint because the Hebrew texts were in Jerusalem under the control of the Jews in Jerusalem. Either way, there would also be mixed heritage Jews who did not practice Judaism but lived as Gentiles absorbed in their culture despite knowing of their ancestry of having a Jewish parent in their families. These are the "Gentiles" the letters of Saul and Peter and James wrote about. They were not non-Hebrew Gentiles that were coming to faith because the promise of God is towards Abraham's seed, NOT any non-Hebrew Gentile. The teaching that non-Hebrew Gentiles being saved would break Scripture and I sincerely doubt God would violate His Promise to Abraham and the child of Israel later on by adding non-Hebrew Gentiles into the fold.
There you go again with the "Gentiles" misunderstanding. Think for a second. Put your Gentile indoctrination to the side and consider ONE THING: God made covenant with Abram the Hebrew and later on with his seed, a people called the children of Israel. If anything, Samaritans were not considered Jews by the Jews who at the time could trace their family lines going back all the way to the twelve tribes. Why were they called Samaritans and not fellow Jews? How deep did the animosity go between more full-fledged Jews who didn't have any Gentile in their family line and Jews that did? Being called "Samaritan" identifies them of mixed heritage mostly of the ten northern kingdom tribes that were defeated and taken captive and exiled into Assyria. Samaria was their capital. If anything, they are the "other flock" of John 10 Jesus said He needed to address into the fold. Jesus of all people knows His own Promise to Abraham that his seed were the true inheritors of the Godly Promises made to Abraham.
Would Jesus violate His own Word to Abraham and call in non-Hebrew Gentiles into the Abraham covenant? No, He wouldn't. But non-Hebrew Gentiles say He did. Is this true?
Ruth was not the seed of Abraham. Why do you believe God would violate His Promises to Abraham and his seed by saying non-Hebrew Gentiles - like Ruth - are in the Abraham covenant? Here are the ground rules to salvation according to the Abraham and Mosaic Covenants: God made covenant with a Hebrew (Abraham) and with his seed, a people called the children of Jacob/Israel who was the seed of Isaac who was the seed of Abraham.
Is there any mention of non-Hebrew Gentiles in the Abraham Covenant when God made the covenant in Genesis 15 and 17? The answer is "No, there is not." Unless you can show through Scripture that non-Hebrew Gentiles were included in the Abraham covenant when God made the thing in Genesis then your theology of non-Hebrew Gentiles being part or included in the Abraham covenant are lies.
As I keep repeating over and over again, I appreciate the spreading of the Gospel that took place after Pentecost. That doesn't mean that all Churches were already planted and accounted for when the Apostles went to those lands. The Berean Jews and Athenian Greeks were some of many cases where Paul directly converted non-Believers to Believers. Hence, what you wrote above still does not prove that all the Congregations that the Apostles wrote to contained no non-Hebrew Gentiles.
It was the Greek-Speaking Diaspora Jews and the Greek Septuagint that helped first ignite Christianity in the Eastern Roman Empire. The Greek language in particular was an essential tool that God and Apostles used to spread the Gospel across the Empire in these respects:
- The creation, certification and widespread usage of the Greek Septuagint by Greek-speaking Diaspora Jews. The Septuagint was created and authenticated by Alexandrian Jews and used throughout the Empire by Diaspora Jews.
- The Greek-speaking Diaspora Jews were elected to be dispersed throughout the Greek Eastern Empire by God Himself.
- The Apostles endorsed the Greek Septuagint by overwhelmingly quoting from it.
- God allowed the Greek language to be the Lingua Franca of the Eastern Roman Empire - the very language that the Gospel was communicated to the world.
- The Apostles selected the Greek language to write their Epistles.
- The churches, that the Apostles presided over and wrote to, were built on services that were structured in the Greek language.
- and on and on.....
Does that mean that everyone needs to know Greek to understand the NT? Not necessarily. Language structures, nuances, and ways of thinking can be transposed across languages.
Many Jews were expelled from Rome by Roman Emperor Claudius in A.D. 49 because of the scuffles that happened between Christians and Jews around the time Paul wrote Romans. The Roman authorities just took the quickest route to quell the situation and just expelled the Jews. After the expulsion, the Christian groups were now socially dominated by Gentiles. Upon their return to Rome, Jewish Christians found themselves in an awkward cultural situation that Paul was remedying by exterminating their Judaizing thoughts. For example,
Rom 3:1 Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the benefit of circumcision?
Rom 3:9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin;
Rom 3:29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also?
Rom 3:31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.
Rom 4:9 Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also?
Rom 9:30 What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith…
Rom 11:11 I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? May it never be! But by their transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make them jealous.
Rom 11:24 For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?
Rom 14:10 But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt?
Your Judaizing spirit is going to throw a massive hissy fit now! Just tell him to p*ss off.I'm talking about the New Covenant. I understand that you want to keep run away from it as fast as your little legs can carry you.
Again, the fact remains that the Gentiles are now grafted into the New Covenant through the Eucharistic Blood of Christ. The grafting of Ruth into Jesus' lineage was an OT foreshadowing. What greater honor is there than to receive the Body and Blood of Christ at the New Covenant Euchristic Supper?
It's time to give your Judaizing spirit the boot.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
And in all your references you are saying "church" refers ONLY to Israel and not any non-Hebrew Gentile, right?
Because to agree that "church" also refers to non-Hebrew Gentiles would violate its usage by God and would break or violate Scripture in which the only people in covenant with God and targeted to becomes saved is Abraham and his seed who is also Isaac, Jacob, and Jacob's twelve sons and their hereditary and ethnic descendants also known as the children of Israel or just Jews (a term meaning of the tribe of Judah that came to be used of the totality of the twelve tribes of Israel and Abraham's seed.)
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
And "world" is in context to the people it was used to identify i.e., the Hebrew people in covenant with God also known as the Jews. To take "world" in its Greek meaning and usage and interpret it today in the 21st century to mean the planet cannot mean that. Jesus did not die for the planet.
DavidTree
Well-known member
Challenge accepted
Question: Will you accept the Mercy of Elohim and reject error for TRUTH???
Peterlag
Well-known member
There is no Israel at this time. We are now under the present administration of Grace that is for the Church of God. It's the time period you and I now belong to because it's the Grace administration, without any distinction made between the Jew and the Gentile, which will end with the appearing of Jesus Christ.
These different administrations are suited to different times because God has spoken everything to its proper time and administration. We will never understand the truth of God’s Word if we read into one administration what God tells us belongs to another administration. If we believe what God said in one administration and carry it into another administration that was on a different principle, we will be taking what is true for one time, and using it to contradict what is also true for another time. When we mix them all together, by jumbling the whole Bible together: Law, Gospel, Grace, Judgment, Glory, Jew, Gentile, and the Church of God, we will be very confused in our understanding of the truth of God’s Word.
What is written directly to the Jews, belongs to and is for the Jews. What is written directly to the Gentiles, belongs to and is for the Gentiles. What is written directly to the Church of God, belongs to and is for the Church of God. What does God mean when He tells us that the visions shown to Isaiah was concerning Judah and Jerusalem? It was not addressed to us or written concerning us, but it was addressed to and concerning Judah and Jerusalem. It would be dishonest for the Church of God to interpret to the Church of God what God said concerns Israel.
The present administration of God is in the time period of the New Testament known as Grace. It deals with the new covenant, and it belongs to the time that is called the administration of the mystery. It's a period in time that was not made known to any one prior to this administration because God kept it a secret since the world began. From this our Grace administration, we learn God’s secret purpose that He had placed in Himself, according to the administration of Grace, which was first revealed to the apostle Paul.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
And the "All Scripture" Saul referred to is the Law, the Psalms, and the Prophets. Without this no one can be saved.
Yes, I wish you would stay on the original question until we come to terms on that. You asked me about Melchizedek and the Book of Hebrews. I answered, and then you implied that Jeremiah and I were lying, and you tried to connect the first of the Feasts of the Lord, the Statute of Passover, with the Levitical Priesthood burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin. I pointed the biblical Truth out to you, that Passover was a memorial that pointed to the Lamb of God which would be slain, and His Blood made available for men who would follow God's Instruction regarding it. And was completely separate from the sacrifices for sin included in the Levitical Priesthood Covenant that God promised to change.
So now you have completely left off your original question concerning the Sacrifices spoken of in the Book of Hebrews, and the change in the Priesthood "After the Order of Aaron, to the Prophesied Priesthood "after the order of Melchizedek". And you have changed the discussion to Passover which was never connected with the Levitical Priesthood and was only mentioned ONE time in the entire Book of Hebrews.
Heb. 11: 24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter; 25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season; 26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward. 27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible. 28 Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.
I'm not sure what your point is as of yet, but are you preaching that when the "works" of the Levitical Priesthood became old and passed away, that the Statute of Passover also passed away?
Yes or No!
Paul teaches me;
1 Cor. 9: 9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen? 10 Or saith he it altogether "for our sakes"? For our sakes, no doubt, "this is written": that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.
Consider what is written here? Is this Law written for me, even if I don't have an ox?
Does God care about feeding people sheep? Or is the Passover written for our sake? According to Paul, they Passover was written for our sakes no doubt.
Passover is a memorial, a Feast of the Lord. I posted God's Own Words in which HE tells you this. Jesus observed the Passover even after HE was anointed High Priest by a true Levite Priest, John the Baptist, "To fulfill all righteousness".
Did He kill a goat when HE forgave sins? Did HE demand that sinners bring a bull to Him for their sins, and kill it? HE never did any of these works of the Levitical Priesthood.
But did HE partake of the Statute of God called "Passover"? Including eating the unblemished lamb for over 30 years? And what did HE say at the "Last Supper" HE had with His Disciples? Did He tell them, "you are no longer to observe the Statute of Passover because it has grown old and ready to vanish?
No, here is what HE told them.
Luke 22: 15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:
16 For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.
17 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves:
18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.
19 And he took "bread", (Unleavened) and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: "this do" in remembrance of me. (A memorial)
Ex. 12: 25 And it shall come to pass, when ye (Studyman) be come to the land which the LORD will give you, according as he hath promised, "that ye shall keep this service".
26 And it shall come to pass, when your children shall say unto you, "What mean ye by this service"?
27 That ye (Studyman) shall say, It is "the sacrifice of the LORD'S passover", who passed over the houses of the children of Israel in Egypt, when he smote the Egyptians, and delivered our houses. And the people bowed the head and worshipped.
For this reason, for me the unblemished Lamb signified the Lord's Christ, as the Scriptures I posted, but you didn't acknowledge, clearly show.
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