The Old Testament: Obsolete and Embarrassing or still valid today?
- Thread starter koberstein
- Start date
The Old Covenant was ready to vanish away 2000 years ago. Paul, your favorite Apostle of all times, never said that the Old Covenant will never pass away because he is not an Ethnic Cleansing Judaizer like you are.
Thank you for proving my point that it's also by the Word (and through the conviction of the Holy Spirit, etc.....) that we come to Christ. The bottom line is that the Law is now fulfilled in Christ. There are thousands of gifts that we inherit from Christ when we abide in Christ and justification is one of them when we believe in Christ. Heb 8:13:is saying that in contrast to the New Covenant, that has Christ and that all can partake of, the Old Covenant is vanishing away because it does not have Christ. What does your spirit say about that? Your spirit's silence will be a sign of rebellion against and hatred towards the New Covenant.
Complete
Well-known member
Rockson
Well-known member
A beautiful portion of scripture! Good to read this a few times a day!
I don't believe that your interpretation of Hebrews 8:13 makes God a false teacher, nor does it discredit the very Words of the Jesus "of the bible". But this is the very foundation of the religion you have adopted and are now promoting. Something was prophesied to change, to become old, and vanish away. I posted what the Scriptures tell us what this is, and that the Levitical Priesthood and the sacrificial "works" for atonement of sins, is what became obsolete. As it is written;
1 Sam. 15: 22 And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams. 23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.
I know you will not be persuaded otherwise, because the Jesus "of the Bible" told me.
Luke 16: 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
Nevertheless, such discussions are good to have and there may be others who are seeking Biblical Truth.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
But you cannot show me any Scripture of the Old Testament and the Law vanishing away.
But I can show you of the Old Testament and the Law flourishing for at least thirty years before the destruction of Israel and their Temple. Jews that became born-again remained obedient and observant of the Law of Moses in that time as Scripture reveals.
It makes you a false teacher.
And it's not my interpretation. You deny how the words of the Bible are properly defined because your false belief was so easily refuted.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
For the Jew the New Covenant is found in the pages of the Old Testament and these Scriptures were used to understand the New Covenant. Without the Old Testament knowledge of the things the Holy Spirit was doing would be lost. The Old Testament formed the basis of the New Covenant, and that New Covenant is Jesus Christ.
That's true. And the Law fulfilled by Christ meant that Christ died for the children of Israel just as the lamb was slain for the children of Israel under the Law to atone for their sins for one year, so, too, did the Lamb of God die for the children of Israel finally and eternally. This is Christ fulfilling the Law of Moses. I'm glad ytou agree Jesus fulfilled the Law.
Just as Christ died under the Law to atone for the sins of the children of Israel, Saul says the Law was nailed to Hios cross and that implication is that when He died the Law died in Him also, but just as Christ rose from the dead so did the Law of Moses rise to newness of life for the born-again Jew for it is the Law of Moses that God put in the inward parts of the Jews of both the House of Israel and of Judah.
What do you mean the Old Covenant didn't have Christ??
Christ was the central figure of God in the Old Covenant by which Christ could be sent in order to die under the Law and in keeping with the Law also atone for the sins of the children of Israel finally and forever because He did it in accordance with the Law as says the Scripture.
Just as the animals sacrificed under the Law atoned for the sins of the children of Israel, God sending His Son, made under the Law to atone for those under the Law as the Scripture teaches.
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. Gal. 4:4–5.
All the New Covenant is, is only the Mosaic Covenant fulfilled by Jesus Christ.
He died as the Lamb of God to atone for the sins of the children of Israel. You say Jesus fulfilled the Law and I agree. Jesus died for the children of Israel under the Law the same as animals were sacrificed under the Law to atone for the sins of the children of Israel for one year.
But Christ made it count for eternity.
He IS a Jewish Messiah, and He is Israel's King.
It's about time you finally understand the work of Christ "for His people" to save them from their sin.
21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Mt 1:21.
The Word of God.
You are preaching that God abolished His Own Laws. The Holy scriptures teach that the Priesthood changed, not God's definition of sin. You have not proved otherwise, and certainly God's Own definition of His Own New Covenant doesn't say HE abolished His Laws.
I can show you what is written, but I can't make you believe the God who Inspired it to be written.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
I'm curious but how was the priesthood changed?
Complete
Well-known member
Subject Heading:- The Old Testament: Obsolete and Embarrassing or still valid today?
'God, -
Who at sundry times
and in divers manners
spake in time past
unto the fathers
by the prophets,
Hath in these last days
spoken unto us by His Son,
Whom He hath appointed heir of all things,
by Whom also He made the worlds;'
(Heb 1:1)
Praise God!
Paul said that it's the Old Covenant that is becoming obsolete, growing old, and is ready to vanish away. Do you understand the difference between the Old Covenant and the Old Testament?
Heb. 7: 11 If therefore perfection were by "the Levitical priesthood", (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth "another priest",
The Temporary Levitical Priesthood, was a Priesthood where only a Levite could minister before God in the Priests office. (EX. 28:41 When Jesus became our high Priest, it caused, by necessity, a change in that Law.
According to God's definition of His Own New covenant described in Jeremiah and Hebrews, there are 2 things that changed between the old and New Covenant God was speaking to.
#1. The manner in which God's Laws were administered.
#2. The manner in which sins are forgiven.
Both these things were provided by the Levitical Priesthood Law that Abraham didn't have because it wasn't "ADDED" until 430 years after Abraham obeyed God's Laws, Statutes and commandments.
In the old covenant that God is speaking to, men received God's Laws through the Levitical Priesthood.
It was also required, "by LAW", that a man take an animal to the Levite Priest and kill it for the remission of their sins.
The Jesus "of the Bible" ushered in the prophesied "New Priesthood", not after the Order of Aaron, but after the Order of Melchizedek, as it was for Abraham.
The Levitical Priesthood LAW concerning sacrifices and burnt offerings for sin wasn't "ADDED" until after the Golden calf, and was only to be in place "Till the True Lamb of God should come".
At which time it became old, and as prophesied, was ready to pass away.
Psalms 110: 4 The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.
God's Law was never prophesied to "pass away" as Jesus tells us.
Thank you for explaining why the Old Covenant is becoming obsolete, growing old, and is ready to vanish away. It's being superceded by the New Covenant that has Christ.
Jesus fulfilled the Law for all people. That we can agree on.
Tell me exactly where in the NT does it say the Law was resurrected to "newness of life".
The animal sacrificed in the OT was not Christ. If you think that the OT actually had Christ in a form of an animal then you are more of a Judaizer than I previously thought. It's only the New Covenant that we actually have Christ.
It's about time you finally understand the work of Christ "for His people" to save them from their sin.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
Notice the whole "book" is God addressing the Hebrew people. So, take that in context of this truth and understand God has covenant with the Hebrews and NOT with Gentiles.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
Do you understand he's not talking about the Old Testament, and do you understand the word "ready" is tentative???
He doesn't say WHEN only that it's READY to vanish away but doesn't say WHEN it HAS vanished away.
You're another dishonest person and dishonest with Scripture as well.
Heb 8:13 talks about the Old Covenant. You're the one who switches the subject to the OT in our conversation and makes a total mess of things.
In typical fashion, you keep running away from the fact that Apostle Paul (and the entire NT) has included Gentiles in the New Covenant. Your Judaizing spirit can't stand that fact. It's time to give it the boot.
Last edited:
Complete
Well-known member
Hello @jeremiah1five
Yes, the book of Hebrews was written to the believing remnant of Israel. I agree. I also agree that the covenants were made with God's People Israel too. I have never said otherwise. You have not listened to what I have said to you time and again.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Similar threads
