The Old Testament: Obsolete and Embarrassing or still valid today?

[DavidTree]

You went off the rail on the second line. The Word is not a Spirit. Nor is Spirit a God. Spirit is what God is.

John 1:14
The "Word" is the wisdom, plan or purpose of God and the Word became flesh as Jesus Christ. Thus, Jesus Christ was the Word in the flesh, which is shortened to the Word for ease of speaking. Scripture is also the Word in writing. Everyone agrees that the Word in writing had a beginning. So did the Word in the flesh. In fact, the Greek text of Matthew 1:18 says that very clearly: "Now the beginning of Jesus Christ was in this manner..." The modern Greek texts all read "beginning" in Matthew 1:18. Birth is considered an acceptable translation since the beginning of some things is birth, and so most translations read birth. Nevertheless, the proper understanding of Matthew 1:18 is the beginning of Jesus Christ. In the beginning God had a plan, a purpose, which became flesh when Jesus was conceived.

i am on the IAM EXPRESS = John 4:24

"God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

5 words you MUST pay careful attention to:
#1- God
#2 - Spirit
#3 - MUST
#4 - Worship
#5 - Truth

Without this TICKET, no-one is allowed on the IAM EXPRESS

IAM EXPRESS 777 - Destination = Eternal Life

WAKE UP and get your Ticket Punched by the Conductor before the Train leaves the Station

 

[jeremiah1five]

Solomon had how many sons? You're not saying anything that affects what I said. Nothing. You can believe you know more and that is fine. You're simply bloviating because you can not defend your claims.

I've made a lot of statements. I asked you to point to the one you disagree with regarding needing more information, but you haven't done that. Now you're telling me I can't defend my claims. I can defend anything I write with Scripture.

Abraham was a Gentile.

Wrong. Abram was Hebrew from the family line of Eber. God Himself is declaring Abram/Abraham was Hebrew in order to establish Abram being among those that were obedient to God.

13 And there came one that had escaped, and told Abram the Hebrew; Gen. 14:13.

With this covenant and circumcision as a sign of covenant with God, God was making distinction between who was Hebrew and obedient to God and who was non-Hebrew or Gentile and were disobedient to God.

A sinner.

All mankind are sinners.

He could not please God without faith.

Faith is not a requirement of this covenant between God and Abram the Hebrew.

Abraham was not even circumcised on the 8th day.

No, he was about 90 years old when he was circumcised.

You really haven't given this much thought at all.

Actually, I have. It is your thoughts that have gone off the reservation to claim non-Hebrew Gentiles are in the Abraham-family covenant.

The father and mother of Gentiles were Adam and Eve. The same father and mother of all mankind.

They were not Gentiles. They were Adam.

2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created. Gen. 5:2.

Gentiles did not come about until God made distinction (had respect) for Abram the Hebrew and was made recipient of God's covenant promises with the sign of circumcision that divided Abram from the rest of the Adamites that did not have covenant with God.

They were not called human or mankind. These terms came later coined by others outside the bible narrative. These terms are not biblical and are very poor terms to identify the seed of the woman and the seed of the serpent.

 

[DavidTree]

I've made a lot of statements. I asked you to point to the one you disagree with regarding needing more information, but you haven't done that. Now you're telling me I can't defend my claims. I can defend anything I write with Scripture.

Wrong. Abram was Hebrew from the family line of Eber. God Himself is declaring Abram/Abraham was Hebrew in order to establish Abram being among those that were obedient to God.

13 And there came one that had escaped, and told Abram the Hebrew; Gen. 14:13.

With this covenant and circumcision as a sign of covenant with God, God was making distinction between who was Hebrew and obedient to God and who was non-Hebrew or Gentile and were disobedient to God.

All mankind are sinners.

Faith is not a requirement of this covenant between God and Abram the Hebrew.

No, he was about 90 years old when he was circumcised.

Actually, I have. It is your thoughts that have gone off the reservation to claim non-Hebrew Gentiles are in the Abraham-family covenant.

They were not Gentiles. They were Adam.

2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created. Gen. 5:2.

Gentiles did not come about until God made distinction (had respect) for Abram the Hebrew and was made recipient of God's covenant promises with the sign of circumcision that divided Abram from the rest of the Adamites that did not have covenant with God.

They were not called human or mankind. These terms came later coined by others outside the bible narrative. These terms are not biblical and are very poor terms to identify the seed of the woman and the seed of the serpent.

God Himself is declaring Abram/Abraham was Hebrew in order to establish Abram being among those that were obedient to God.

Today's LOL x100

and contrary to the words of God

 

[DavidTree]

what a horrible view of God.

Post 321 has a Great View of God

 

[DavidTree]

kjv is a sorcery text.

That is a horrible thing to say!

 

[DavidTree]

I've made a lot of statements. I asked you to point to the one you disagree with regarding needing more information, but you haven't done that. Now you're telling me I can't defend my claims. I can defend anything I write with Scripture.

Wrong. Abram was Hebrew from the family line of Eber. God Himself is declaring Abram/Abraham was Hebrew in order to establish Abram being among those that were obedient to God.

13 And there came one that had escaped, and told Abram the Hebrew; Gen. 14:13.

With this covenant and circumcision as a sign of covenant with God, God was making distinction between who was Hebrew and obedient to God and who was non-Hebrew or Gentile and were disobedient to God.

All mankind are sinners.

Faith is not a requirement of this covenant between God and Abram the Hebrew.

No, he was about 90 years old when he was circumcised.

Actually, I have. It is your thoughts that have gone off the reservation to claim non-Hebrew Gentiles are in the Abraham-family covenant.

They were not Gentiles. They were Adam.

2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created. Gen. 5:2.

Gentiles did not come about until God made distinction (had respect) for Abram the Hebrew and was made recipient of God's covenant promises with the sign of circumcision that divided Abram from the rest of the Adamites that did not have covenant with God.

They were not called human or mankind. These terms came later coined by others outside the bible narrative. These terms are not biblical and are very poor terms to identify the seed of the woman and the seed of the serpent.

Gentiles did not come about until God made distinction (had respect) for Abram the Hebrew and was made recipient of God's covenant promises with the sign of circumcision that divided Abram from the rest of the Adamites that did not have covenant with God.

Which PROVES that Abram came from Adam & Eve = Gentiles/Nations from the Beginning = Eve the mother of all living

God changing Abram's name to Abraham also PROVES God's Plan of Salvation for the 'Nations/Goyim/ which the Hebrew nation came from'

God CREATED a separate nation unto Himself beginning with Abraham in order to FULFILL the Promise made to Adam/Eve and their descendants.

Anyone who argues against this argues against GOD's words of TRUTH and HIS Holy Nation.

 

[jeremiah1five]

First, I'm not going to entertain your bloviations.

Interesting that you refuse to deal with mankind before Abraham relative to covenants and THEN......

They were not 'mankind', they were Adam.

2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created. Gen. 5:2.

The term "mankind" is not in the bible and was coined by non-Hebrew Gentiles to describe Adam and the woman and their descendants. It is a very poor choice of words, very similar to those who want to call a baby in the womb a 'fetus.' It's much more sanitized to abort/kill a fetus than it is to abort/kill a baby.

Appeal the Adam and Eve.
Either include Adam and Eve in everything relative to your theology or admit that you're just "picking and choosing" what you want to rant about.

I do have a question relative to this appeal from Scriptures.....

It appears you actually believe that all human beings were not born of a women? You're appealing to Gnostic beliefs concerning the book of Enoch. You obvious believe that certain "children" were born of they physical seed of demons.

Demons are attitudes in men. Evil attitudes. They originate in man.
And, as Saul says:

8 For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.
9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man. 1 Cor. 11: 8-9.

11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.
12 For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God. 1 Cor. 11:11–12.

How do you know you don't have a demon in your lineage?

I don't have an evil attitude which are called "demons."

There are only two beings in creation: angel and man. "Demons" are the attitude in man, mostly when the attitudes are evil.
Then, one can have good attitudes, but all attitudes come from the mind. Some are evil and some are good attitudes.
This is in view when those that say, "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? Mt 7:22....

which describe non-elect, unsaved people who think they are in relation with Jesus Christ and have changed the attitudes of others thinking they have cast out fallen angels/"devils" they believe possessed men. The angels that sinned are locked up and have been locked up sometime between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.

It's only God and men and the positive or negative "relationship" God has with men.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Did you notice that you used the word "with" that sentence. You used the word "with" as if it didn't mean immortality is dependent upon the only Eternal heir of Abraham and those that heir grants life.

Jesus Christ is NOT the only heir of Abraham. There's Isaac, Jacob, Jacob's twelve sons and their descendants. God made promise with Abraham and to Abraham and his descendants God keeps His promises.

That creates a "pecking order"... You have nothing to claim relative to being an heir of Abraham.... except WITH Christ.

Personally, after rightly dividing the Word of God and receiving what is written in the Bible and not adding to the Bible as many non-Hebrew Gentiles do, I understand God made promise to Abram the Hebrew and with his seed. His seed were the heirs of those promises made to Abram the Hebrew and later God made covenant with Abram's seed, a people called the children of Jacob/Israel whom after He delivered from bondage in Egypt made a complimentary covenant with this people in the desert at the foot of Mount Sinai, a covenant that builds upon the Abraham Covenant and provides a more detailed expectation from the children of Israel in which God gives them His Law which covers every contingency in life and living. Later, God makes promise to the children of Israel to give them His Holy Spirit who will not only be with the children of Israel but actually will dwell within them as down payment for a future fuller expression of God in their lives. Thus, anyone who is seed of Abram the Hebrew - even mixed heritage Jew-Gentile offspring - are still the seed of Abram the Hebrew and heirs to the Abraham Covenant. Those who were the seed of Abram the Hebrew and did not know they were Hebrew but were mixed heritage yet raised as a non-Hebrew Gentile who has had a true conversion called being 'born-again' and have the Holy Spirit dwelling within them would have to have at least one Hebrew parent in their ancestry for the sole reason that the Holy Spirit that was Promised to the children of Israel is proof that such a person of mixed heritage would have to have at least one parent of Hebrew seed for the Holy Spirit was NEVER promised to non-Hebrew Gentiles. He was Promised to the children of Abram the Hebrew - NOT non-Hebrew Gentiles. Non-Hebrew Gentiles got nothing coming of or from God.

Again. The only Eternal heir of Abraham is Jesus Christ. You either get life from Him or you do not get life at all.

No, there's Isaac, Jacob, Jacob's twelve sons and their children and their children, etc., until you come to Jesus of Nazareth. The covenant promises have come full circle, but these children of Abram the Hebrew are still recipient of the promises God made and gave to Abram. Jesus Christ, with the blessings of the Father will give Abram the Hebrew land and will personally give him the blessings God Promised him. It's a family affair. Only Hebrews are invited.

The word Jew is English. That English word has a derivative history that ONLY comes into view through Esther and Judah's relationship with the Greek/Gentile world. You wouldn't even have the word "Jew" without this Gentile world. It was "coined" first in Greek. Not Hebrew.

The Hebrew Scriptures have been around for about 4,500 years and the Septuagint has been around from about 200 BC.
It ("Jew") was first coined in Hebrew. The word corresponds to the tribe of Judah. Judah is in the Hebrew Bible It's been around for about 4,500 years.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Not corporately, but individually in Christ. They were harlots just like all the descendent of mankind.

There is no mankind. They are called "Adam." You can also call them Adamites

How many times are you going say this? You're deflecting. I knew this before you said anything. I know the position you have without even knowing you. I study.
Tell me, why is Jesus referenced as the second Adam and not the second Abraham by "Saul"?

Because God is covering all His people with His righteousness. This was the purpose of Christ dying so that God's people can live - beginning with Adam.

Go for it. Make some sense.

If Christ died as a man, God's integrity demands that it must be for all men.

Christ's death is sufficient for all man, but Christ's death was targeted for a specific people and only the Lord knows them that are His all the way back into the Garden. Follow the bloodlines.
It was the Father's Plan.
The Son implemented the Plan.
The Holy Spirit APPLIES the Plan to God's elect people.

6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth. Dt. 7:6.

 

[DavidTree]

There is no mankind. They are called "Adam." You can also call them Adamites

Because God is covering all His people with His righteousness. This was the purpose of Christ dying so that God's people can live - beginning with Adam.

Christ's death is sufficient for all man, but Christ's death was targeted for a specific people and only the Lord knows them that are His all the way back into the Garden. Follow the bloodlines.
It was the Father's Plan.
The Son implemented the Plan.
The Holy Spirit APPLIES the Plan to God's elect people.

6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth. Dt. 7:6.

"I say then, have they(Jews/Hebrew nation) stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles. Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!"

IF, you repent and turn to HaMashiach, He will heal you, circumcise your heart of unbelief, and cast out the spirit that is lying to you.

 

[Peterlag]

i am on the IAM EXPRESS = John 4:24

"God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

5 words you MUST pay careful attention to:
#1- God
#2 - Spirit
#3 - MUST
#4 - Worship
#5 - Truth

Without this TICKET, no-one is allowed on the IAM EXPRESS

IAM EXPRESS 777 - Destination = Eternal Life

WAKE UP and get your Ticket Punched by the Conductor before the Train leaves the Station

Yes God is spirit. It's what He is. Spirit is not another God. I'm flesh. My flesh is not another person.

 

[DavidTree]

Yes God is spirit. It's what He is. Spirit is not another God. I'm flesh. My flesh is not another person.

i AGREE with the above statement of Truth

Just as the statements herein are 100% PURE & Unaltered TRUTH

Since God is a Spirit, and the Word was with God in the Beginning, and the Word was God - that would make the WORD the SAME Spirit as God!!!

That SAME Spirit came to earth and was placed inside a human body for the purpose of SAVING mankind from their sins = Hebrews 10:5-7

John 1:14 - And the WORD became flesh and dwelt among us. And we beheld His glory, a glory as of an only begotten from the Father,
full of grace and truth.

 

[Peterlag]

i AGREE with the above statement of Truth

Just as the statements herein are 100% PURE & Unaltered TRUTH

Since God is a Spirit, and the Word was with God in the Beginning, and the Word was God - that would make the WORD the SAME Spirit as God!!!

That SAME Spirit came to earth and was placed inside a human body for the purpose of SAVING mankind from their sins = Hebrews 10:5-7

John 1:14 - And the WORD became flesh and dwelt among us. And we beheld His glory, a glory as of an only begotten from the Father,
full of grace and truth.

If we understand that the logos is God's expression... His plan, purpose, reason and wisdom. Then it is clear they were with Him "in the beginning." Scripture says God's wisdom was "from the beginning" and it was common in Hebrew writing to personify a concept such as wisdom. The fact that the logos "became" flesh shows it did not exist that way before. There is no pre-existence for Jesus in this verse other than his figurative "existence" as the plan, purpose or wisdom of God for the salvation of man. The same is true with the "word" in writing. It had no literal pre-existence as a "spirit-book" somehow in eternity past, but came into being as God gave the revelation to people and they wrote it down.

 

[praise_yeshua]

"morally reasoned educated conclusions."

What is that?

Can you define that?

All conclusions relative to anything representing God should come from a moral character and understanding. Knowing all that can be known given the evidence about a particular subject is to be educated. Combine morality and education and your conclusion will be reasoned/reasonable.

 

[DavidTree]

All conclusions relative to anything representing God should come from a moral character and understanding. Knowing all that can be known given the evidence about a particular subject is to be educated. Combine morality and education and your conclusion will be reasoned/reasonable.

Well said - i like it.

Morality comes from God and not from us - True/False?

We are the recipients of His Holiness(Morality) thru Grace and obedience to His commandments - YES/NO?

SHALOM

 

[DavidTree]

If we understand that the logos is God's expression... His plan, purpose, reason and wisdom. Then it is clear they were with Him "in the beginning." Scripture says God's wisdom was "from the beginning" and it was common in Hebrew writing to personify a concept such as wisdom. The fact that the logos "became" flesh shows it did not exist that way before. There is no pre-existence for Jesus in this verse other than his figurative "existence" as the plan, purpose or wisdom of God for the salvation of man. The same is true with the "word" in writing. It had no literal pre-existence as a "spirit-book" somehow in eternity past, but came into being as God gave the revelation to people and they wrote it down.

There is no pre-existence for Jesus in this verse other than his figurative "existence" as the plan, purpose or wisdom of God for the salvation of man.

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.
And we beheld His glory, a glory as of an only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

It is very sad and even frightening that you are unable to see basic Truth that a child can understand.

Being a mature adult is a BIG problem when approaching God!!!

JESUS said you must humble yourself as a little child when you approach Him in hope of gaining eternal life.

At that time the disciples came to Jesus, saying, “Who then is greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”

Then Jesus called a little child to Him, set him in the midst of them, and said, “Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. Whoever receives one little child like this in My name receives Me.

 

[DavidTree]

All conclusions relative to anything representing God should come from a moral character and understanding. Knowing all that can be known given the evidence about a particular subject is to be educated. Combine morality and education and your conclusion will be reasoned/reasonable.

All conclusions relative to anything representing God should come from a moral character and understanding.

i am going to dwell on this statement little more - something seems to be lacking here, maybe/maybe not!

i will share with you if it comes UP as i continue in the Word.

SHALOM and thank you for responding with clarification.

 

[Peterlag]

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.
And we beheld His glory, a glory as of an only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

It is very sad and even frightening that you are unable to see basic Truth that a child can understand.

Being a mature adult is a BIG problem when approaching God!!!

JESUS said you must humble yourself as a little child when you approach Him in hope of gaining eternal life.

At that time the disciples came to Jesus, saying, “Who then is greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”

Then Jesus called a little child to Him, set him in the midst of them, and said, “Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. Whoever receives one little child like this in My name receives Me.

I think the same of you. That a grown person can think that God's words became a living thing. Are my words also anther person and thereby making 2 of us inside of me? This kind of thinking is insane. And on top of that you tell me I'm crazy for not seeing it. That's how wide and deep the Catholics programed this nonsense.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Much of the Roman Catholic doctrine was assimilated into Protestantism and is still being passed along as Christian groups continue to split off from one another.

That's not the main problem with mainstream Gentile churches (notice I didn't say 'Christianity.')
The main problem with Gentile fellowships today is that for 1900 years after the destruction of Israel and her Temple and the scattering of the Jews throughout the Roman Empire to join Jews who did not return in 522 BC when Cyrus gave them opportunity to return to Israel and only a remnant (10%) returned to their land from Babylon is that these Jew-Gentile offspring who lived as Gentiles and cultured by Hellenistic culture is that their ignorance of their Hebrew heritage was absorbed by their Gentile upbringing and they unmoored true, biblical Christianity from its Hebrew roots because they didn't know their Hebrew roots growing up as Gentiles even though they had Abraham's DNA in their ancestry. These are the Gentiles referred to in the New Covenant epistles. They were NOT non-Hebrew Gentiles that are referred to in the letters because God made no covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles. All three Hebrew covenants beginning with Abram the Hebrew (Gen. 14:13) and continuing with the Mosaic Covenant between God and Abraham's seed, a people identified as the children of Jacob/Israel, finally culminating with the New Covenant between God and the Houses of Israel (northern ten tribes) and Judah (southern two tribes) which is only the Mosaic Covenant fulfilled by Christ are the elect of God chosen to be recipients of His grace and to be redeemed as promised by God.

In a nutshell that is why even the independent church in your neighborhood today most probably believes that there is a trinity, dead people are alive, God is in control of everything that happens, the Four Gospels are written to Christians, and water baptism is relevant. And then there's everything that you know about our sin nature was taught to you by them.

The written Word of God from Genesis to Revelation was indeed written to Christians - Jews and Jewish Christians - for they were given possession of the oracles of God. I do not receive any teaching from 'them' (independent Gentile churches/fellowships) anymore now that I know how to read and study Scripture and am led by the teaching of the Holy Spirit. Don't get me wrong, the Holy Spirit has taught me His Word from day one and the difference between what I know from Scripture and what is out there in the world passed off as "Christian theology" is that my Christianity is founded upon Hebrew history and culture and religion while Gentile theology is founded upon a Gentile interpretative mindset completely detached from Hebrew history, culture, religion, and influence.
I take the Scripture as written, and I do not add to the bible as most Gentiles do. They also subtract from Scripture and teach Jesus came and changed the Law in order to add non-Hebrew Gentiles into the Abraham Covenant. But they have no answer as to why they haven't also added themselves into the Mosaic Covenant because they never say such a thing. They jump over the Mosaic Covenant to get to the Abraham Covenant, but the truth of the matter is that the Abraham Covenant is between God, Abram the Hebrew, and with his Hebrew seed.
Simply reading Genesis 12, 15, and 17 reveals there are no non-Hebrew Gentiles named or mentioned by God as being in this covenant. Non-Hebrew Gentiles interpret Saul's words in Galatians 3:28-29 as well as passages in Romans to say non-Hebrew Gentiles are in the Abraham covenant even though Saul is addressing Jews and Jewish Christians in those passages and NOT non-Hebrew Gentiles. They prefer to break Scripture and violate the Word of God in their interpretations of the New Covenant writers like Saul and brother Pete.

 

[DavidTree]

I think the same of you. That a grown person can think that God's words became a living thing. Are my words also anther person and thereby making 2 of us inside of me? This kind of thinking is insane. And on top of that you tell me I'm crazy for not seeing it. That's how wide and deep the Catholics programed this nonsense.

There are only two outcomes here: TRUTH or human logic

TRUTH is God's Logical answer and healing to our 'insanity'.

If you remain as you are, in your own logic, you will stay that way for all Eternity.

God's Logic is for us to follow the WAY, the TRUTH and the LIFE.
This can only be accomplished by submitting to CHRIST and believing His words.

i was once under the falsehood of Roman Catholicism.

TODAY, i am FREE, being Washed, Born-Again and translated into the Kingdom of the Love of HIS dear Son.

How did this occur???
When HE called, i BELIEVED and i now continue in His Word which Speaks to our spirit with Wisdom from Above.