Are Christians Today Required to Keep the Law of Moses?

[Eternally-Grateful]

You almost spoke the truth here, and perhaps it was just a typo. Here, let's adjust your statement a little so as to align with what Jesus was actually saying.

"Those who tried to enter the Kingdom of Heaven their way (by "Their" works)

Remember, Jesus just got through telling you that by a man's "Fruits/Works", you shall know him. Everyone has works. They are either Lawful works or unlawful works. This is undeniable Biblical Truth.

Every Man enters a Path in this life. Jesus teaches to "Enter the Narrow Path" not "Enter the Broad Path". Both are "works". One is a Work instructed by Christ, given to Him by God, the other is a work instructed by "another voice in the garden". One is a lawful work, one is an unlawful work.

Jesus just said, "21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he "that doeth" the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Again, as anyone can clearly see, it's not calling Jesus Lord, Lord, that matters in this life, it's the "Works" that we do. Doing the "Will of God" is a "Lawful work". Rejecting the "Will of God" is an "unlawful work". Jesus just said that those who shall enter the Kingdom of Heaven, are those who "Doeth" the Lawful Work, (the will of God).

He goes on to confirm the importance of "Whose works" a man lives by.

24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, "and doeth them", (A Work) I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and "doeth them not", (Also a Work) shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

Remember EG, according to God and His Son, the Jesus "of the bible", men are to be judged by their "Works". If they walk in the Good Works God before ordained that we should walk in them, then we are not walking in "mans" works, but in Gods Work, which is Spiritual. And His Works have already been judged acceptable to Him. Walking in God's Works is walking in the Spirit. Walking in man's works is walking in the flesh. When a man walks in the Spirit, there is no condemnation.

If these men had called Jesus Lord, Lord, and had walked in the Works God before ordained that they should walk in them, that would be walking in the Spirit, and Jesus would have said to them, "Well done good and Faithful servant". But they only honored HIM with their Lips.

You just made the same mistake of the pharisees. Boasting of your works.

1. I was correct. those people went to Jesus and boasted of all the works they did in Jesus name.

Jesus said depart from me, for I NEVER KNEW YOU.

They boasted in their works, not in Christ. thats why he told them to leave.

Yes, Perfection is the Mark, the Goal, the Prize of the High calling of God, which was "In Christ Jesus", that HE Commanded His People to press towards. Paul and I, and others who believe in Jesus, "Press Towards" this Mark, for the Prize of the High calling of God. I am not yet perfect, but this one thing I do, "forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before", I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God (Perfection) in Christ Jesus. And this in Faith that Jesus is there to pick me up and wash me off when I fall. You clearly have been convinced by "Many" who call Jesus Lord, Lord, that this command from Jesus is unworthy of your effort or Labor, even to the point of condemning the endeavor. That our Labor in the Lord is Vain. Paul saw this philosophy coming.

1 Cor. 15: Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

Soyeong believes it is a "Saying" of the Christ worth "doing". A Path worth entering, even if it is unpopular in the world God placed him in.

The Scriptures warn of other voices in the garden that try and trip men up, who have entered this narrow path. Your post represents this other voice. You should really step back and consider this.

If you want to earn salvation by obedience, you must be perfect.

If not. you have fallen short of Gods glory and must be justified freely through the redemption in christ. not in self.

God's Law is the standard by which perfection is measured. I would not have known the perfection Jesus Himself Commanded, if God's Law had not defined it for me, and Jesus had not walked in it. If you believed in the Christ "of the bible", you would know that HE forgives the sins of the repentant. As HE teaches, "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish". The man that steals has the chance to go and steal no more, to put on a new man that no longer steals. This is only possible because of Jesus' Sacrifice. Your statement completely ignores this undeniable Biblical Truth.

And for the man of God, his uncleanness, sins and unrighteousness is revealed to him over time as a man grows in the Knowledge of Christ as he "puts on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Yes, Gods law is the standard.

As james said, if you keep the whole law, yet STMBLE in one point (you di not stumble on purpose) you are guilty of the whole law.

13 "Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, "may grow up into him in all things", which is the head, even Christ:

These Christians in Matt. 7, like "many" who preach in Christ's Name, were not "Pressing towards the Prize of perfection that was in Christ Jesus", as Jesus Commands. They had not "put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness".

Your post miss-represents Jesus' teaching. You should really think about this.

Yes. This will happen when we are ressurected.

Your the one misrepresenting Jesus my friend.

We are better served, in my understanding, addressing the beams in our own eyes, and examining our own self as to whether our works are wrought in God or man.

The prayers of men who work iniquity have little value.

Hey I know I am guilty. I know I do not live up to Gods standard. so I have no beem in my eye, I am full of repentance.

You need to remove the beam from yours and repent yourself

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

I have heard the wicked and blasphemous philosophy promoted by "Many", who "Come in Christ's Name", that in Matthew 5, Jesus taught differently than God His Father, in the Law and Prophets.

They deceitfully post, that the "Them of old time" Jesus referred to in Matt. 5, was His Father and Moses, and not the corrupt priests who were partial in the Law that the entire Bible teaches about.

Your post eludes to this evil teaching. I want to point out that Jesus wasn't correcting His Father or Moses in Matthew 5. He was exposing the promoters of the mainstream religions of the world of His time and before, how they omitted the weightier matter "of the Law". Here is the proof for those interested in what Jesus was really teaching.

21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and "whosoever shall kill" shall be in danger of the judgment: 22 "But I say unto you", That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

So what Laws did God give Moses?

Ex. 20: 13 Thou shalt not kill.

Lev. 24: 17 And he that killeth any man shall surely be put to death.

Lev. 19: 17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him. 18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

The Jesus, "of the bible" was not "partial in the Law". The "Them of Old Time" were Partial in the Law.

Mal. 2: 7 For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts. 8 But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts. 9 Therefore have I also made you contemptible and base before all the people, according as ye have not kept my ways, "but have been partial in the law".

Jesus confirms this again;

Matt. 23: 23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, "and have omitted" the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

In EVERY case, what Jesus said, and what the Law and Prophets taught, were identical.

Prov. 6: 24 To keep thee from the evil woman, from the flattery of the tongue of a strange woman. 25 Lust not after her beauty in thine heart; neither let her take thee with her eyelids.

The "Them of Old Time" was not God and Moses at all. And yet you are here preaching that it was, just as this world's entire religious system teaches that it was. That Jesus and God were not promoting the same Laws. That they were not of One Mind.

Matt. 5: 33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: 34 But I say unto you, "Swear not at all"; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:

Duet. 23: 21 When thou shalt vow a vow unto the LORD thy God, thou shalt not slack to pay it: for the LORD thy God will surely require it of thee; and it would be sin in thee. 22 But if thou shalt "forbear to vow", (Vow not at all) it shall be no sin in thee.

When a person actually studies for themselves, they will find that in EVERY CASE, when Jesus said, "But I Say", HE is aligned perfectly with the Law and Prophets, just as HE told you earlier in the same Chapter.

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Jesus has not yet returned, and if HE doesn't return to "fulfill" all things, my Faith is in Vain.

So EG, I know it's uncomfortable to be corrected and or rebuked. But you are furthering wicked falsehoods about God and Jesus when you imply or preach that Jesus, in Matt. 5, brought different Laws than those His Father gave to Moses and the Prophets.

This is only one example of many, many false teaching promoted by this world's religious system. This is the reason why I reply on this forum, to post what is actually written in the hopes that folks might consider them and understand why Jesus warned specifically of the "Many" who "Come in His Name, who "Call Him Lord, Lord.

I hope you might consider what is actually written in Matthew 5.

Moses said, cursed is the one who does not confirm and obey every word..

Paul said we are all cursed by the law. why? No one has kept it

James said if we mess up just one time, we are guilty of the law

Stop watering down the law. and repent

 

[Studyman]

You just made the same mistake of the pharisees. Boasting of your works.

If you were an honest person, you would point out where I am boasting of my own works. It's not to late to humble yourself just tiny, tiny bit, and show me in my reply where I was boasting of my own works.

You would justify your own accusations, and help a person you called a "friend". So please show me in my post, where I am making the same mistake of the Pharisees, and am boasting of my own works.

1. I was correct. those people went to Jesus and boasted of all the works they did in Jesus name.

They were speaking to Jesus face to face. This is a Prophesy concerning the "Judgment seat of Christ" in "THAT Day". Read what is actually written:

21 Not "every one" that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me "in that day", Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

These many "Christians" were raised at the return of Jesus, appeared before the Judgment Seat of Christ, and they see their condemnation, and are pleading their case to Jesus. " Wait a minute Jesus, don't you know who we are, we preached to men in your name".

There is no call from Jesus to repent. They is no talk of forgiveness, Faith or turning to God. There is no "Go and Sin no more". There is no "Enter the Narrow Path", or pleading to be "doers" of His Sayings, and not hearers only.

It was OVER for these men in "That Day", the Judgment seat of Christ.

The fact that you don't know this, and yet accuse me of boasting of my own works, should give you pause. And if it doesn't, that's not on me.

Jesus said depart from me, for I NEVER KNEW YOU.

They boasted in their works, not in Christ. thats why he told them to leave.

All they did was "boast in Christ" with their lips to defend their religious works. Read what is actually written. If they had yielded themselves to Christ, and "Lived By" Every Word of God, and became "Servants of God's righteousness" as Paul teaches, would Jesus still tell them to leave, in your religion?

If you want to earn salvation by obedience, you must be perfect.

So then, you condemn Paul for striving towards perfection, in obedience to the Christ?

If not. you have fallen short of Gods glory and must be justified freely through the redemption in christ. not in self.

I see, so in your religion, if I am "Pressing towards Perfection that was in Christ Jesus", as the Faithful New Testament church did, in obedience to Christ's Commandment, you guys call this trusting in myself, not Trusting in Him.

But if I reject God's Commandments and Statutes in favor of man-made high days and commandments of men, despise God's Judgments and create my own judgments concerning what is Holy, Clean and Righteous, I am trusting God.

Wow, OK. And what? Jesus only forgives me if I reject His Father's instructions?

Yes, Gods law is the standard.

As james said, if you keep the whole law, yet STMBLE in one point (you di not stumble on purpose) you are guilty of the whole law.

Yes, that is why Jesus died for the repentant, HE knows those who turn to God, and "Yield themselves" to Him, may stumble and Fall. But that isn't the case for the Christians in Matt. 7. They know God's Laws, but reject them as unworthy of their respect and honor. There is a difference between full well rejecting God's known Commandments and Judgments so that you are free to live by your own man-made religious traditions, and stumbling during an intense trial of a man's faith..

That you don't know these things, should cause you to examine yourself.

Yes. This will happen when we are ressurected.

Not for men who call Jesus Lord, Lord, but refuse to be "doers" of His Sayings.

Hey I know I am guilty. I know I do not live up to Gods standard.

so I have no beem in my eye, I am full of repentance.

Yes EG, and you call Jesus Lord, Lord, and you preach in Christ's Name.

But you willfully refuse to "Yield yourself" a servant to Obey God. This is the whole point of Jesus Prophesy concerning many "Christians" in "That Day".

You need to remove the beam from yours and repent yourself

This is true, but you are not judged by my works, you are judged by your own works. At least according to the Jesus "of the Bible".

 

[mikesw]

To have any hope of Eternal Life you must Eat the Flesh of Jesus and Drink the Blood of Jesus, it's a Command from Jesus Himself.

Perhaps if you were to seek the Righteousness of God, like the Jesus "of the Bible" instructs, and strive from the heart to understand God's message through HIS Commandment, instead of using them as an excuse to live in disobedience to God's Laws, you might understand why Paul said they were written "For our Sakes no doubt", and why the Jesus "of the Bible" said to live by Every Word, as HE did.

Jesus did not instruct people to live by every word that comes from the mouth of God. That was his words in the rejection of temptation by Satan. It is out of Deu 8:3 which was about the Exodus and manna and the lesson to those in the wilderness.

 

[mikesw]

Moses said, cursed is the one who does not confirm and obey every word..

Paul said we are all cursed by the law. why? No one has kept it

James said if we mess up just one time, we are guilty of the law

Stop watering down the law. and repent

I would tend to prefer debate on this topic with Christians who hold more shared central beliefs. I do not know what Studyman's baseline beliefs are.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

If you were an honest person, you would point out where I am boasting of my own works. It's not to late to humble yourself just tiny, tiny bit, and show me in my reply where I was boasting of my own works.

[/QUOTE]

read your posts. its all about you. your righteouisness, your obedience, Not about Christ.

You would justify your own accusations, and help a person you called a "friend". So please show me in my post, where I am making the same mistake of the Pharisees, and am boasting of my own works.

Again, read your own posts..

They were speaking to Jesus face to face. This is a Prophesy concerning the "Judgment seat of Christ" in "THAT Day". Read what is actually written:

21 Not "every one" that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me "in that day", Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

These many "Christians" were raised at the return of Jesus, appeared before the Judgment Seat of Christ, and they see their condemnation, and are pleading their case to Jesus. " Wait a minute Jesus, don't you know who we are, we preached to men in your name".

There is no call from Jesus to repent. They is no talk of forgiveness, Faith or turning to God. There is no "Go and Sin no more". There is no "Enter the Narrow Path", or pleading to be "doers" of His Sayings, and not hearers only.

It was OVER for these men in "That Day", the Judgment seat of Christ.

The fact that you don't know this, and yet accuse me of boasting of my own works, should give you pause. And if it doesn't, that's not on me.

Yes, Gods children do what he asks. it is not a prescriptive statement, it is a descriptive statement.

By making it prescriptive, (required to be saved) you are boasting of your works.. You have done this, and saved yourself.

All they did was "boast in Christ" with their lips to defend their religious works. Read what is actually written. If they had yielded themselves to Christ, and "Lived By" Every Word of God, and became "Servants of God's righteousness" as Paul teaches, would Jesus still tell them to leave, in your religion?



So then, you condemn Paul for striving towards perfection, in obedience to the Christ?



I see, so in your religion, if I am "Pressing towards Perfection that was in Christ Jesus", as the Faithful New Testament church did, in obedience to Christ's Commandment, you guys call this trusting in myself, not Trusting in Him.

But if I reject God's Commandments and Statutes in favor of man-made high days and commandments of men, despise God's Judgments and create my own judgments concerning what is Holy, Clean and Righteous, I am trusting God.

Wow, OK. And what? Jesus only forgives me if I reject His Father's instructions?



Yes, that is why Jesus died for the repentant, HE knows those who turn to God, and "Yield themselves" to Him, may stumble and Fall. But that isn't the case for the Christians in Matt. 7. They know God's Laws, but reject them as unworthy of their respect and honor. There is a difference between full well rejecting God's known Commandments and Judgments so that you are free to live by your own man-made religious traditions, and stumbling during an intense trial of a man's faith..

That you don't know these things, should cause you to examine yourself.


Not for men who call Jesus Lord, Lord, but refuse to be "doers" of His Sayings.

lol

you can not get ove yourself can you?

Paul. Not by works of righteousness which we have done (acts of obedience) but by his mercy he saved us.

Yes EG, and you call Jesus Lord, Lord, and you preach in Christ's Name.

But you willfully refuse to "Yield yourself" a servant to Obey God. This is the whole point of Jesus Prophesy concerning many "Christians" in "That Day".

Now your just slandering me, Because I never made any such proclimation

This is true, but you are not judged by my works, you are judged by your own works. At least according to the Jesus "of the Bible".

I am not judged, I am judged by the cross.

Now my works will be judged, and I may or may not recieve reward. But I will still be saved.

Salvation is a gift of grace, not a work of merit.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

I would tend to prefer debate on this topic with Christians who hold more shared central beliefs. I do not know what Studyman's baseline beliefs are.

just read him, he is all about works of merit. not about the grace of God. and if you preach the grace of God. he will come at you claiming you love sin..

 

[mikesw]

just read him, he is all about works of merit. not about the grace of God. and if you preach the grace of God. he will come at you claiming you love sin..

I forget if I mentioned this earlier. Galatians 3 speaks against living under the Mosaic law. However, he is not suggesting to live without restraints since Gal 5:16-21 notes to live by the ways of the Spirit which then rejects these people who focus on the law.
Galatians 5:18–21 (ESV)
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality,
20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions,
21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Some of these guys, if speaking as Christians, are possibly suggesting being led by the Spirit and being under the law at the same time. But after the points of Galatians 3, I do not see how anyone would say we should not be led by the Spirit.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

I forget if I mentioned this earlier. Galatians 3 speaks against living under the Mosaic law. However, he is not suggesting to live without restraints since Gal 5:16-21 notes to live by the ways of the Spirit which then rejects these people who focus on the law.
Galatians 5:18–21 (ESV)
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality,
20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions,
21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Some of these guys, if speaking as Christians, are possibly suggesting being led by the Spirit and being under the law at the same time. But after the points of Galatians 3, I do not see how anyone would say we should not be led by the Spirit.

if your led by the spirit. you do not need the law.. you would by practice not break it..

 

[Studyman]

Moses said, cursed is the one who does not confirm and obey every word..

Yes, the person who rejects God's Laws and Judgments as beneath their honor and respect is cursed, as it is written;

2 Peter 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; 13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you; 14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children: 15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

Matt. 25: 40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Paul said we are all cursed by the law. why? No one has kept it

No, there are many who repented, turned to God and Obeyed Him to the Satisfaction of God Himself.

The "LAW" He was speaking to in Galatians 3 was the Law God Added "Because of Transgressions". It was the Temporary Priesthood Sacrifices that Abraham didn't have, where a man was required to take a goat to the Levite Priest and Kill it, before forgiveness would be provided for him, which HE gave to Israel in His Mercy after they created the Golden Calf. This "LAW" with it's Sacrificial Works" for justification/forgiveness of sins, was to be in place, "Until the Seed should come", that these sacrificial "works of the law" foreshadowed in the first place.

Paul is explaining, what the Hebrews author also teaches.

Heb. 10: 1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. 4 For it is "not possible" that the blood of bulls and of goats "should take away sins". Or as Paul says, "Justify the Flesh".

The Pharisees didn't believe Jesus was that Prophesied "SEED", so they were still promoting these old priesthood sacrificial "works of the Law" to justify the Flesh. Anyone who refused to accept that Jesus was the SEED that should Come, and therefore were still relying on the old Priesthood covenant, the sacrificial "works of the Law" to justify the flesh, were cursed. Because they did not take away sins. Therefore, those who relied on these sacrifices could never sin, because there was no forgiveness for them. But they already had sin, and they rejected the only sacrifice available to them, so indeed they were completely cursed.

10 For as many as are "of the" works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. 11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. Which is what the Law and Prophets taught.

It's very easy to find what these "Works of the Law" for justification are. Just ask Moses, "Moses, when a man sinned before the Prophesied Messiah shows up, what "Works of the LAW" is HE required to engage in?

You will find his answer in Lev. 4.

The old priesthood covenant, "after the Order of Aaron" as prophesied had grown old and vanished, replaced by the prophesied New Priesthood Covenant "After the Order of Melchizedek".

The deceiver promotes the lies that Paul is speaking about the 10 commandments and judgments and statutes of God, and implying that the Pharisees were trying to get the Galatians to obey God. This same deceiver would have you believe Moses and God were the "Them of Old Time" in Matthew 5, and that Jesus and His Father were not ONE.

I post on this forum to expose these deceivers, to point out that Jesus and His Father were and still are ONE. And that the reason why Jesus didn't partake of the sacrificial "works of the law" of the Levitical Priesthood, for the remission of sins, that the Pharisees were still promoting, is because HE is the Prophesied Seed.

This is Paul's teaching in Gal. 3.

James said if we mess up just one time, we are guilty of the law

This is why Paul teaches it is so important to strive against sin, and why he Labored, that he might be accepted of God. And why Peter said to "Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless." And why Jesus said to "Live by" every word of God.

It is exceedingly wicked to sin against God. That is why the punishment is so great, that we might become one with Him and His Son, and hate wickedness and love righteousness, so we will "Strive against Sin".

But the deceiver wants men to believe their sins don't matter. That striving against sin is evil, is "Trying to earn salvation". Jesus warned over and over about listening to these men who Call Jesus Lord, Lord, but live in rejection of His Father Laws and Judgments.

Stop watering down the law. and repent

Show me where I'm watering down God's Laws. And if you can't show any evidence of your accusations, then please try and rule over your sinful flesh, just a little, so that you are not being a tale bearer among the brethren.

 

[Studyman]

Jesus did not instruct people to live by every word that comes from the mouth of God.

So then, when HE said, and His Father said, "Man Shall Live By God's Word", He wasn't speaking about men?

That was his words in the rejection of temptation by Satan.

So then, in your religion, God's Word is not part of the Armor of God?

It is out of Deu 8:3 which was about the Exodus and manna and the lesson to those in the wilderness.

1 Cor. 10: 1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. 6 Now these things "were our" examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

What if Jesus and Paul are right, and it is your adopted religion that has led you astray.

 

[Wholeheart]

The law of Moses, or torah, specifically refers to the first five books of the Old Testament. The torah was God’s instruction specifically to His people, Israel. The law of Moses contained everything from the Ten Commandments to what to wear and what to eat. Everything spiritual as well as social and physical was included in this law.

By the time of Jesus, the Jews had added an elaborate system of “dos and don’ts” to the law that were used to determine a person’s standing with God. However, the law—including the Ten Commandments—was not an instrument of salvation. Rather, it was meant to point out sin and the need for a Savior, Jesus Christ the Lord.

Obedience to Jesus is a fundamental aspect of being a Christian, as He commands His followers to observe His teachings and make disciples. This obedience reflects a loving relationship with Him and is essential for true discipleship.

John 14:23
Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him.

John 8:31
So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine;

John 14:21
He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him.”

John 14:23-24
Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father’s who sent Me.

John 14:15
“If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

John 15:10-15
If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love. These things I have spoken to you so that My joy may be in you, and that your joy may be made full. “This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you.read more.

1 John 2:3
By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.

1 John 3:22
and whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in His sight.

1 John 3:24
The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.

 

[mikesw]

So then, when HE said, and His Father said, "Man Shall Live By God's Word", He wasn't speaking about men?



So then, in your religion, God's Word is not part of the Armor of God?



1 Cor. 10: 1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. 6 Now these things "were our" examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

What if Jesus and Paul are right, and it is your adopted religion that has led you astray.

So you accept one clear statement of Paul against living by the law and then, to counter it, you repeat what Paul said in Gal 5 against doing things of the flesh but in a different way in 1 Cor 10? Why not go with the simple sense of living by the Spirit?

Can you follow the Spirit without lusting after evil things or will the Spirit lead into these evil things? Paul has made the point as a living by the flesh or the Spirit.
I presume that your concept of neighborly love is not about helping them in times of need but rather is just not murdering them or stealing from them, as is the extent of the Mosaic law.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Yes, the person who rejects God's Laws and Judgments as beneath their honor and respect is cursed, as it is written;

2 Peter 2:12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; 13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you; 14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children: 15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

Matt. 25: 40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:


No, there are many who repented, turned to God and Obeyed Him to the Satisfaction of God Himself.

The "LAW" He was speaking to in Galatians 3 was the Law God Added "Because of Transgressions". It was the Temporary Priesthood Sacrifices that Abraham didn't have, where a man was required to take a goat to the Levite Priest and Kill it, before forgiveness would be provided for him, which HE gave to Israel in His Mercy after they created the Golden Calf. This "LAW" with it's Sacrificial Works" for justification/forgiveness of sins, was to be in place, "Until the Seed should come", that these sacrificial "works of the law" foreshadowed in the first place.

Paul is explaining, what the Hebrews author also teaches.

Heb. 10: 1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. 4 For it is "not possible" that the blood of bulls and of goats "should take away sins". Or as Paul says, "Justify the Flesh".

The Pharisees didn't believe Jesus was that Prophesied "SEED", so they were still promoting these old priesthood sacrificial "works of the Law" to justify the Flesh. Anyone who refused to accept that Jesus was the SEED that should Come, and therefore were still relying on the old Priesthood covenant, the sacrificial "works of the Law" to justify the flesh, were cursed. Because they did not take away sins. Therefore, those who relied on these sacrifices could never sin, because there was no forgiveness for them. But they already had sin, and they rejected the only sacrifice available to them, so indeed they were completely cursed.

10 For as many as are "of the" works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. 11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. Which is what the Law and Prophets taught.

It's very easy to find what these "Works of the Law" for justification are. Just ask Moses, "Moses, when a man sinned before the Prophesied Messiah shows up, what "Works of the LAW" is HE required to engage in?

You will find his answer in Lev. 4.

The old priesthood covenant, "after the Order of Aaron" as prophesied had grown old and vanished, replaced by the prophesied New Priesthood Covenant "After the Order of Melchizedek".

The deceiver promotes the lies that Paul is speaking about the 10 commandments and judgments and statutes of God, and implying that the Pharisees were trying to get the Galatians to obey God. This same deceiver would have you believe Moses and God were the "Them of Old Time" in Matthew 5, and that Jesus and His Father were not ONE.

I post on this forum to expose these deceivers, to point out that Jesus and His Father were and still are ONE. And that the reason why Jesus didn't partake of the sacrificial "works of the law" of the Levitical Priesthood, for the remission of sins, that the Pharisees were still promoting, is because HE is the Prophesied Seed.

This is Paul's teaching in Gal. 3.



This is why Paul teaches it is so important to strive against sin, and why he Labored, that he might be accepted of God. And why Peter said to "Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless." And why Jesus said to "Live by" every word of God.

It is exceedingly wicked to sin against God. That is why the punishment is so great, that we might become one with Him and His Son, and hate wickedness and love righteousness, so we will "Strive against Sin".

But the deceiver wants men to believe their sins don't matter. That striving against sin is evil, is "Trying to earn salvation". Jesus warned over and over about listening to these men who Call Jesus Lord, Lord, but live in rejection of His Father Laws and Judgments.



Show me where I'm watering down God's Laws. And if you can't show any evidence of your accusations, then please try and rule over your sinful flesh, just a little, so that you are not being a tale bearer among the brethren.

if you think you can sin and still be ok with God,. and that God will forgive you from those sins just because you confessed those sins or did some works,

you are watering down the law. and not seeing yourself as God sees you.

You have not become poor in spirit

you have not become as the tax collector.

 

[Studyman]

So you accept one clear statement of Paul against living by the law and then,

Paul didn't teach ever, after his conversion, against living by the "Laws of God" given to men by Moses. Not ever. Not ONE TIME. He taught both Jews and Gentiles to "Yield ones self" servants to obey God, and to strive for lawful perfection. The children of the devil in his time accused him of teaching against the Laws of God, just as you are now. But Paul never taught against living by the Laws of God. HE relied on and promoted to his brothers the Law and Prophets, Inspired by God and trustworthy, for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works"

He taught against the "Pharisees Law" that he once lived by and was zealous for. A mainstream religion of his time, that had despised and rejected God's Judgments and created their own judgments. A religion that polluted His Sabbaths, and created their own sabbaths. A religion that taught for doctrines the commandments of men, and full well rejected God's commandments that they might walk in their own religious traditions. A religion that refused to submit to God's righteousness and went about establishing "their own righteousness".

And that by their "own righteousness" "Their own Laws", "their own traditions", they were justified of their sins.

Paul taught against living by the laws, philosophies and traditions of this world's religious system, Beggarly Elements and "Rudiments of this world" promoted by the Pagans and the Pharisees in his time, other religious in my time. And this so that I would "Take heed" and "Beware" of the same religious system that God placed me in, that also "profess to know God" but rejects His Laws, His Judgments, His statutes in favor of their own.

Here is how Paul responded to your accusation, which was the same as their accusations against Paul in the scriptures, that Paul was teaching against living by the Laws of God.

Acts 24: 10 Then Paul, after that the governor had beckoned unto him to speak, answered, Forasmuch as I know that thou hast been of many years a judge unto this nation, I do the more cheerfully answer for myself: 11 Because that thou mayest understand, that there are yet but twelve days since I went up to Jerusalem for to worship.

12 And they neither found me in the temple disputing with any man, neither raising up the people, neither in the synagogues, nor in the city:

13 Neither can they (Or you) prove the things whereof they now accuse me.

14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, (Gospel of Christ first given to Israel in the wilderness) so worship I the God of my fathers, believing "all things" which are written in the law and in the prophets:

And of course he did, because Jesus, and His Father, said "man" shall "live by" Every Word of God.

But some voice has convinced you that Jesus and His Father didn't mean for these Words to include you. That you and EG are somehow free to reject God's Judgments, Pollute His Sabbaths, and transgress His commandments, falsely claiming that Paul and the Tax collector did the same.
It's not true according to Scriptures.

to counter it, you repeat what Paul said in Gal 5 against doing things of the flesh but in a different way in 1 Cor 10?

Because many men existence here, not to seek God's Truth from the scriptures, but to justify an adopted religious philosophy, it's difficult to have a discussion with them. I ask you questions, but you won't answer them. Not because you don't understand the question, or know the answer. But because the answer exposes a darkness within. I struggle with the same thing. Jesus talks about it in John 3: 19-21. I think we should "do truth" even knowing that it will expose darkness within us, actually, "because" the Light exposes the darkness within us. Yes, it's humiliating some times, but humiliation is an effective weapon against pride. And a man who is correctable, is a wise man.

You said that Jesus' Words in Matt. 4, and God's Words in Duet. wasn't for you or me, but for someone else.

I posted Paul's teaching where he teaches just the opposite, that the very purpose of the Law and Prophets, was for you and me. And why did God have this written for us?
12 Wherefore let him that "thinketh he standeth" take heed lest he fall.
God's Word is a Mercy for the Sinner, not a "Yoke of Bondage" as the Pharisees/deceivers of our time would have us believe. When a man rejects His Word, he rejects His Mercy.

You simply don't understand Paul. You believe he taught against living by God's Laws. You have been convinced the Pharisees were trying to get the Galatians to live by God's Laws. Both are absolute falsehoods that are promoted by this worlds religious system. Falsehoods easily exposed by simply believing "Every Word" of the Christ, and His Father, concerning these "Children of the devil"

Why not go with the simple sense of living by the Spirit?

I don't believe the high days or judgments of the RCC and her protestant daughters are "Spirit and Truth". I believe God's Word is Spiritual. Paul said "I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin".

He called this "Walking/Living by the Spirit".

You said: "So you accept one clear statement of Paul against living by the law".

First, I don't accept any such thing, because Paul doesn't teach against living by God's Law.

The Mind directs our walk. Everything we do is proceeded by a thought. When a man "Serves the Law of God with their mind", they are "Walking in the Spirit", "Walking in the "Good Works" that God (Not man) before ordained that we should walk in them".

Can you follow the Spirit without lusting after evil things or will the Spirit lead into these evil things?

God's Word "IS" Spirit, and Truth. If a man "Yields themselves" To God's Word, and turns away from the "other voices" in the Garden God placed us in, "Voices" that profess to know God, but transgress His Commandments and judgments by their own religious traditions, this man is "Walking in "the Spirit", not the flesh.

Will his Faith still be tested? Is the flesh still there? Are we still is a battle to keep our flesh under subjection?

According to the Holy Scriptures, yes. We must endure to the "End" of our lives.

"Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the "work of the Lord", (not religious man) forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord."

Paul has made the point as a living by the flesh or the Spirit.

Yes, God's Word, both those HE spoke, and those HE placed in the mouth of His Son, my Lord and Savior, the Jesus "of the bible", is Spirit and Truth. Living "by any other voice", is walking in the flesh.

When Paul walked in the doctrines, tradition, judgments and philosophies of this world's religious system, or as he put it, "Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience" he walked in the flesh.

When HE repented and "Yielded himself" to God, and "put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness", and walked in the " good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them", and "pressed toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God (Perfection) in Christ Jesus", he was walking "in the Spirit".

There is no condemnation for men who "walk in the Spirit".

I presume that your concept of neighborly love is not about helping them in times of need

Promoting disobedience and rejection of God's judgments, statutes and commandments, is neither neighborly love, nor does it help anyone. Promoting falsehood about Paul teaching against God's Laws, is neither Love nor help, but actually very damaging to those foolish enough to adopt those philosophies.

Read the Bible, see how Jesus Loved those who engaged in promoting falsehoods about His Father. And remember, Jesus said, "As I have Loved you, so Love you one another".

but rather is just not murdering them or stealing from them, as is the extent of the Mosaic law.

Of course your representation of my posts is once again, purposely miss-leading. The Jesus "of the bible" loved me enough to tell me the truth about God, and the truth about myself, and it was insulting, offensive and humiliating to me. It broke me. But it was true love, created to save me for "Mercies Sake". I'm not going to throw away His Love, just so you and EG will say nice things about me. Instead, I'm sharing His Love in the hope we might be edified by it.

 

[Studyman]

if you think you can sin and still be ok with God,.

A man who rejects God's Judgments and Statutes and Commandments after he has been shown them, in favor of the judgments, traditions and high days of this world's religious system, but still calls Jesus "Lord, Lord, is either a deceiver, or deceived, as it is written;

2 Tim. 3: 12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, (Law and Prophets were the only Scriptures Timothy had as a child) which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith "which is in Christ Jesus."

You can read about this Faith that Zacharias, Simeon and Anna lived by, that the mainstream religion of their time rejected. (Luke 1&2)

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

I don't think I can hear God's Voice, then reject His Voice, in order to live by this world's religious traditions, judgments and philosophies, and be OK with God. I believe what is written. If I posted that I didn't believe, my posts would be a lie, like your posts. But I do believe, despite your judgments.

and that God will forgive you from those sins just because you confessed those sins or did some works,

I know you don't believe in the Word's of God of the Bible, or His Son that HE sent, based on your posts. But Jesus said, "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish".

Therefore, according to the Jesus "of the bible", for true repentance, there must be an admission of wrong doing. And also an all out effort, from the heart, not to do the wrong again. Or as Jesus said, "Go and sin no more". Jesus said "IF" a man "does" these things, or as His Own Words promote,

Matt. 7: 24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

I get that your posts advise against believing in the Word's of Jesus and His Father enough to "Live by" them, or "Submit to them" or "humble themselves to them". But Jesus saw your posts coming, and prepared me for your religion and philosophies which if I followed, would turn me away from believing in God and His son enough to become "Doers" of their sayings.

you are watering down the law. and not seeing yourself as God sees you.

Please understand, your posts promote the insidious falsehood that Jesus and His Father were not on the same page where God's instruction in righteousness is concerned. Your posts promote outright lie that the "Them of Old Time" in Matt. 5 that Jesus referenced, was God and Moses, and not the corrupt priests who became partial in the law.. And even when you are shown that this is a false teaching, you refuse to be corrected, and try to make it all about me, when I was making it all about the Word of God..

So I would be a fool to take the judgments against me as shown on your posts seriously.

You have not become poor in spirit

You are free to post whatever you want.

you have not become as the tax collector.

I don't think the tax collector went out and stole a widows purse, then beat his chest and said, "Have Mercy on me, a Sinner", and then the next day, stole another purse, then beat his chest and said, "Have Mercy on me, a sinner.

I think you are missing the point. But as you said, you have no beam in your eye, and you are full of repentance, not like that studyman guy.

 

[Studyman]

I would tend to prefer debate on this topic with Christians who hold more shared central beliefs. I do not know what Studyman's baseline beliefs are.

You could always read my posts. Or even ask me. My "Baseline beliefs" are that the Holy Scriptures are trustworthy "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works".

And that we are to "Take heed" and "Beware" of the religious system of this world, with it's man-made high days, man-made judgments and philosophies and man-made images of God in the likeness of man.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

A man who rejects God's Judgments and Statutes and Commandments after he has been shown them, in favor of the judgments, traditions and high days of this world's religious system, but still calls Jesus "Lord, Lord, is either a deceiver, or deceived, as it is written;

2 Tim. 3: 12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, (Law and Prophets were the only Scriptures Timothy had as a child) which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith "which is in Christ Jesus."

You can read about this Faith that Zacharias, Simeon and Anna lived by, that the mainstream religion of their time rejected. (Luke 1&2)

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

I don't think I can hear God's Voice, then reject His Voice, in order to live by this world's religious traditions, judgments and philosophies, and be OK with God. I believe what is written. If I posted that I didn't believe, my posts would be a lie, like your posts. But I do believe, despite your judgments.


I know you don't believe in the Word's of God of the Bible, or His Son that HE sent, based on your posts. But Jesus said, "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish".

Therefore, according to the Jesus "of the bible", for true repentance, there must be an admission of wrong doing. And also an all out effort, from the heart, not to do the wrong again. Or as Jesus said, "Go and sin no more". Jesus said "IF" a man "does" these things, or as His Own Words promote,

Matt. 7: 24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

I get that your posts advise against believing in the Word's of Jesus and His Father enough to "Live by" them, or "Submit to them" or "humble themselves to them". But Jesus saw your posts coming, and prepared me for your religion and philosophies which if I followed, would turn me away from believing in God and His son enough to become "Doers" of their sayings.


Please understand, your posts promote the insidious falsehood that Jesus and His Father were not on the same page where God's instruction in righteousness is concerned. Your posts promote outright lie that the "Them of Old Time" in Matt. 5 that Jesus referenced, was God and Moses, and not the corrupt priests who became partial in the law.. And even when you are shown that this is a false teaching, you refuse to be corrected, and try to make it all about me, when I was making it all about the Word of God..

So I would be a fool to take the judgments against me as shown on your posts seriously.


You are free to post whatever you want.



I don't think the tax collector went out and stole a widows purse, then beat his chest and said, "Have Mercy on me, a Sinner", and then the next day, stole another purse, then beat his chest and said, "Have Mercy on me, a sinner.

I think you are missing the point. But as you said, you have no beam in your eye, and you are full of repentance, not like that studyman guy.

so are you sinless?

come one man which is it?
\
Do you still sin, if so. according to the law. your condemned (apart from Grace)

so which is it, are you watering down the law. or are you sinless. you can not have it both ways