The Old Testament: Obsolete and Embarrassing or still valid today?

[jeremiah1five]

Nonsense. Job was not a descendent of Eber nor a descendent of Abraham. Enoch was not a descendent of Eber nor Abraham. Both Ishmael and Keturah have been blessed by the Father.

Based on this evidence, it's more likely that Job was a descendant of one of Noah's sons, likely Shem, but from a different branch than Abraham.

Enoch was a descendant of Seth, who was a son of Adam. Eber was a descendant of Seth through his son Enosh. Therefore, Enoch, as a descendant of Seth, is also a descendant of Eber.

Here's a simplified family tree:

• Adam
  • Seth
    • Enosh
      • Kenan
        • Mahalalel
          • Jared
            • Enoch

As you can see, Enoch's lineage directly connects him to Eber through the line of Seth.

And yes, Ishmael was blessed by God. I never said he wasn't. But I did say the promises of Abraham went to Isaac ---> Jacob ---> Jacob's twelve sons ---> descendants of the twelve tribes including Ephraim and Manasseh.

What I am meaning is that the Scripture was written by the seed of the woman not the serpent and those in Scripture that had a positive relationship with God are the seed of the woman of whom they were obedient to God as opposed to those that stayed together instead of obey God to scatter or fill the earth and these would be those who hung with Nimrod and other sordid characters that were not blessed of God. There've always been two groups of people in the earth. God's people and those who are not God's people. Just follow the family lines in Genesis. I have. God Authored the Hebrew Scripture and God Authored the Gospel in the stars. And His Word is to and for His people. How can something holy be given to dogs or swine? Holy things for holy people, or don't you understand the Word of God and to whom He gave it to?

 

[Peterlag]

I can tell your definition of "Christians" and "Church" refer to non-Hebrew Gentiles. You are wrong.

Every Hebrew from Moses onward knows about his prophecy that God will "raise up a Prophet like unto me" means and other prophecies of a Deliverer, Kinsman-Redeemer, etc., identify someone with the title of "Messiah" which in Greek is the word "Christos" and that those who looked forward to God sending this Messiah is a Messiah-ite or "Christian." Thus, the Greek term "Christos" only refers to Hebrews to whom the Promise of a Messiah/Christos would come, and when He did come He left and sent His Spirit who was Promised to the Hebrew people (Jer. 31:31-34) and that this Spirit of Promise promised to the Hebrews came to save and baptize into Messiah's body ONLY Hebrews/Jews for there are NO NON-HEBREW GENTILES in ANY of the three Hebrew Covenants. You're a Gentile trying to understand Hebrew history and culture with a Gentile mindset and by doing this you will end up with error.
Let me ask you...did God mention any non-Hebrew Gentiles to Abraham or Sarah when He made the covenant with Abraham and that the covenant would go to his son, Isaac, and then Jacob, and then Jacob's twelve sons and NOT Ishmael's twelve sons? Answer this.

Misunderstanding 1 Cor. 10:32.
Start at the beginning when the Abraham Covenant was made in Genesis 12, 15, and 17. Tell me....looking at these passages did God include any non-Hebrew Gentiles in the Abraham Covenant? I ask because you seem to think that two Hebrew parents (Abraham and Sarah; Isaac and Rebekah; Jacob and Rachel, Leah, and their two servants) can have a non-Hebrew children. That's like saying two Russian parents can have a Mexican baby. LOL. You are so mixed up it's embarrassing.

Every writer of the Bible from Genesis to Revelation is a Hebrew/Jew. And you think these covenant members are writing to non-Hebrew Gentiles? hahaha. LOL.

You have to use the same language the Bible uses if you want to converse with me. Because I can't comment on non-Hebrew Gentiles because I don't find that language in the Bible.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I haven't said anything about the word "Hebrew". You're the one conflating words. Not me.

There is no Jew without circumcision.

If "Hebrews" is a conflation then God did it first:

13 And there came one that had escaped, and told Abram the Hebrew; Gen. 14:13.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and all his twelve son's bodies are in the ground corrupted. Is that call an "ETERNAL HEIR"?

God is a God of the living. It is their bodies that have turned to dust.

Pay attention.
The word "Jew" wasn't used UNTIL the Greek culture began to influence Israel. You're conflating terms. The Hebrew Scriptures were lost for a very long time. Nehemiah recovered some portion of the Scriptures. However, they were soon lost themselves. The Greek OT preserved the Hebrew Scriptures.

Nehemiah lived in the fifth century BC. The Septuagint was translated in the 200s BC.

Hilkiah, the high priest, is the one credited with finding the scriptures in the temple. The event is described in the Book of 2 Kings, chapter 22. Hilkiah discovered the "Book of the Law" during a temple renovation, which led to a significant religious revival under King Josiah.

Hilkiah found the scriptures in the temple in the 7th century BC. This event is dated to the 18th year of King Josiah's reign, which places it around 622 BC. Judah wasn't defeated and exiled until 586 BC. In 522 BC Cyrus, king of Babylon gave Hezekiah leave to return to his homeland (Israel) and he did with only a remnant of all the tribes in existence while the majority of "Jews" remained in Gentile lands like what was left of Assyria, in Babylon and in Gentile lands in-between.

The term "Jew" originated in the 5th century BC. It comes from the Hebrew word "Yehudi," which means "of Judah." This term was initially used to refer to members of the tribe of Judah, but later it came to encompass all members of the Jewish people. While the ten northern kingdom tribes were assimilated in Assyria and later in Babylon, it was the tribe of Judah that held the majority in Babylon. But not every Jew returned with Nehemiah. God put it in their hearts to remain where they were for a reason.

If you ever want to get into manuscript evidence itself instead of this "theoretical" belief you've fostered, then let me know.

Until then, you have nothing but conjecture. There is no ego to be found in the Truth. Your beliefs are full of ego and pride. I seek to destroy all men's ego. All men have a problem with ego and if you'll ever let that side of you go, then you might just find peace in Christ.

Nope. Broken men have no pride. Weeping prophet, remember?

 

[jeremiah1five]

Pay ATTENTION to the HOLY SPIRIT concerning the descendants of the flesh of Abraham: Romans 9:1-12

I tell the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit, that I have great sorrow and continual grief in my heart. For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh, who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; 5of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.

But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham;
but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.”

That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God;
but the children of the promise are counted as the seed.
For this is the word of promise: “At this time I will come and Sarah shall have a son.”

Now I know your problem. You have a problem with comprehension.

You quote Scripture of the same thing I said in paraphrase.

This means "you don't listen" which translates to one who is not discipled by God, meaning you don't obey God, nor have you been bridled by God and instead are horse whom Christ has not tamed.

3 Behold, we put bits in the horses’ mouths, that they may obey us; and we turn about their whole body.
James 3:3.

Yeah, I got all that from your uncomprehend-ed response.

The Lord just pulled your cover.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Interesting that you would recognize this and then claim that Jew started with Eber. You're all over the place. Nothing is consistent with your claims. You simply engage in endless false narratives.

I use "Jew" and "Hebrew" interchangeably. But one thing is for sure and that is God knew there would be a tribe of Judah.

 

[jeremiah1five]

You have to use the same language the Bible uses if you want to converse with me. Because I can't comment on non-Hebrew Gentiles because I don't find that language in the Bible.

There are non-Hebrew Gentiles that are not Abraham's seed, and there are Gentiles such as named in the New Covenant writings that are Samaritan-type half-Jew and half-Gentile.
Samaritans in the New Covenant writings of the four gospels were half-Jew and half-Assyrian and other non-Hebrew Gentiles. They were not considered true Jews by the Jews and were hated for their unions with non-Hebrew Gentiles whether through marriage to survive, rape, concubinage, or slavery who had offspring of mixed heritage (Jew-Gentile.)
I'm sure you know the word "Trinity" is not biblical language, but you use the word and understand its meaning so stop trying to be a purist. It limits your ability of expanding your understanding of biblical concepts and ideas that may not be biblical language.

 

[praise_yeshua]

If "Hebrews" is a conflation then God did it first:

13 And there came one that had escaped, and told Abram the Hebrew; Gen. 14:13.

Repeating yourself means nothing. You're conflating "Hebrew" with the term "Jew". Eber wasn't circumcised. Abraham wasn't circumcised according to the demands of God's law.

 

[praise_yeshua]

God is a God of the living. It is their bodies that have turned to dust.

Deny the Resurrection all you want. They are not complete.

Nehemiah lived in the fifth century BC. The Septuagint was translated in the 200s BC.

I reject your date but even so, I said very clearly that they were lost again.

Hilkiah, the high priest, is the one credited with finding the scriptures in the temple. The event is described in the Book of 2 Kings, chapter 22. Hilkiah discovered the "Book of the Law" during a temple renovation, which led to a significant religious revival under King Josiah.

Hilkiah found the scriptures in the temple in the 7th century BC. This event is dated to the 18th year of King Josiah's reign, which places it around 622 BC. Judah wasn't defeated and exiled until 586 BC. In 522 BC Cyrus, king of Babylon gave Hezekiah leave to return to his homeland (Israel) and he did with only a remnant of all the tribes in existence while the majority of "Jews" remained in Gentile lands like what was left of Assyria, in Babylon and in Gentile lands in-between.

Very little doubt exists that Nehemiah read from those words. There is no contradiction in what I said.

The term "Jew" originated in the 5th century BC. It comes from the Hebrew word "Yehudi," which means "of Judah." This term was initially used to refer to members of the tribe of Judah, but later it came to encompass all members of the Jewish people. While the ten northern kingdom tribes were assimilated in Assyria and later in Babylon, it was the tribe of Judah that held the majority in Babylon. But not every Jew returned with Nehemiah. God put it in their hearts to remain where they were for a reason.

Nope. Broken men have no pride. Weeping prophet, remember?

Nonsense. "Hebrews" like those who murdered Christ have always sought to rewrite history. The secular world is the origins of the term.

Tell me, what word existed first among human languages..... Jew or Gentile? This is getting good. Keep challenging me. We'll get somewhere. You'll learn something.

You know the answer.... Gentiles are first mentioned through Ham a son of Noah...........

 

[praise_yeshua]

I use "Jew" and "Hebrew" interchangeably. But one thing is for sure and that is God knew there would be a tribe of Judah.

I know you do. You shouldn't. Not in the discussion you're having now concerning the etymology of Jew.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Repeating yourself means nothing. You're conflating "Hebrew" with the term "Jew". Eber wasn't circumcised. Abraham wasn't circumcised according to the demands of God's law.

Every male in Abraham's household was circumcised including Abraham. Otherwise, the uncircumcised in his household God said that soul shall be cut off (LOL.)

24 And Abraham was ninety years old and nine, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin.
25 And Ishmael his son was thirteen years old, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin.
26 In the selfsame day was Abraham circumcised, and Ishmael his son.
27 And all the men of his house, born in the house, and bought with money of the stranger, were circumcised with him.
Gen. 17:24–27.

You should check before you post. But this has nothing to do with haste. You just don't know what you're talking about and I do.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Every male in Abraham's household was circumcised including Abraham. Otherwise, the uncircumcised in his household God said that soul shall be cut off (LOL.)

24 And Abraham was ninety years old and nine, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin.
25 And Ishmael his son was thirteen years old, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin.
26 In the selfsame day was Abraham circumcised, and Ishmael his son.
27 And all the men of his house, born in the house, and bought with money of the stranger, were circumcised with him.
Gen. 17:24–27.

You should check before you post. But this has nothing to do with haste. You just don't know what you're talking about and I do.

Please pay attention to what I said. The law demands that a Hebrew be circumcised the eightieth day. I didn't write anything in "haste".

All of these men where not circumcised according to the law. They were too old to comply with the law.

I say what I say for a reason. I'm being exacting in what I say. You're missing the obvious yourself. Not me.

Gen 17: And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

Luk_2:21 And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Deny the Resurrection all you want. They are not complete.

There has been no resurrection until when Christ returns still yet future. Every BODY that died and buried (or cremated) is ashes. But the soul of a person who dies since Pentecost goes to be with the Lord. Before that they were "kept" in Eden, the Garden of God.

I reject your date but even so, I said very clearly that they were lost again.

The only 'time' God's elect were lost was when He blew them into the nostrils of the first man and God's elect became living souls (on earth.)

Very little doubt exists that Nehemiah read from those words. There is no contradiction in what I said.
Nonsense. "Hebrews" like those who murdered Christ have always sought to rewrite history. The secular world is the origins of the term.

Well then, the Assyrians, Babylonians, Romans have all rewrote history to favor themselves and you are living a lie by different means.

Tell me, what word existed first among human languages..... Jew or Gentile? This is getting good. Keep challenging me. We'll get somewhere. You'll learn something.

And when did "human" enter any language if you can say? Because it is not part of the Hebrew Scripture nor the New Covenant writings from Matthew to Revelation.

You know the answer.... Gentiles are first mentioned through Ham a son of Noah...........

No, they are mentioned as anyone who was not in the Abraham Covenant but not immediately. The word "nations" in Genesis 17 of the time did not mean "Gentile" it meant "massing" [of people.]
Later, it came to be defined as anyone who was not Hebrew or seed of Abraham for the covenant and circumcision separated the people from obedient and disobedient to Hebrew and non-Hebrew.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I know you do. You shouldn't. Not in the discussion you're having now concerning the etymology of Jew.

Well, that's the second time someone has suggested this to me. I keep falling back thinking people who say they are Christian should know such things. But with all the translations out there thanks to Westcott & Hort, and all these so-called new Hebrew and Greek language scholars out there causing confusion as much as W&H in defining Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek and Chaldee I keep erroneously thinking the Holy Spirit is not confused and every true believer He's raised would all be under one truth. And they are. It's when I interact with so-called Christians who have been raised by men that the differences become evident. Men of God are NOT men of men.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Well, that's the second time someone has suggested this to me. I keep falling back thinking people who say they are Christian should know such things. But with all the translations out there thanks to Westcott & Hort, and all these so-called new Hebrew and Greek language scholars out there causing confusion as much as W&H in defining Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek and Chaldee I keep erroneously thinking the Holy Spirit is not confused and every true believer He's raised would all be under one truth. And they are. It's when I interact with so-called Christians who have been raised by men that the differences become evident. Men of God are NOT men of men.

Blame yourself for being incapable of dealing with evidence. Your problem is your lack of knowledge. You tried to blame such on me just a couple of posts ago.

 

[praise_yeshua]

The only 'time' God's elect were lost was when He blew them into the nostrils of the first man and God's elect became living souls (on earth.)

Lost the Scriptures. Pay attention. Read what I wrote.

Well then, the Assyrians, Babylonians, Romans have all rewrote history to favor themselves and you are living a lie by different means.

I haven't referenced them once in any of interactions. Stop deflecting. I simply made the argument Hebrews do it too.

And when did "human" enter any language if you can say? Because it is not part of the Hebrew Scripture nor the New Covenant writings from Matthew to Revelation.

Maybe you've forgotten your Constitution. You know... HUMAN rights. It is an recent English word in comparison to "Jew" which comes from Greek. It does not have a direct relationship to "Adam" but it certain is a synonym relative to the human race as "Adam" is to "mankind".

No, they are mentioned as anyone who was not in the Abraham Covenant but not immediately. The word "nations" in Genesis 17 of the time did not mean "Gentile" it meant "massing" [of people.]
Later, it came to be defined as anyone who was not Hebrew or seed of Abraham for the covenant and circumcision separated the people from obedient and disobedient to Hebrew and non-Hebrew.

You're the one appealing to Jew as if it existed with Eber. Now you're making the same argument otherwise that I made.

Gentile is an English word that comes from the Greek source I mentioned earlier. You're the one appealing to Eber when the "nations" began with the sons of Noah. Not the grandson of Noah..... Eber.

Your haste caused you to make a mistake. Just own it.

 

[Peterlag]

There are non-Hebrew Gentiles that are not Abraham's seed, and there are Gentiles such as named in the New Covenant writings that are Samaritan-type half-Jew and half-Gentile.
Samaritans in the New Covenant writings of the four gospels were half-Jew and half-Assyrian and other non-Hebrew Gentiles. They were not considered true Jews by the Jews and were hated for their unions with non-Hebrew Gentiles whether through marriage to survive, rape, concubinage, or slavery who had offspring of mixed heritage (Jew-Gentile.)
I'm sure you know the word "Trinity" is not biblical language, but you use the word and understand its meaning so stop trying to be a purist. It limits your ability of expanding your understanding of biblical concepts and ideas that may not be biblical language.

See you're doing it again. I never read "half-Jew" or "half-Gentile" in the Bible.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Please pay attention to what I said. The law demands that a Hebrew be circumcised the eightieth day. I didn't write anything in "haste".

All of these men where not circumcised according to the law. They were too old to comply with the law.

I say what I say for a reason. I'm being exacting in what I say. You're missing the obvious yourself. Not me.

Gen 17: And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

Luk_2:21 And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb.

Either accommodation was made for adults, or every adult was in disobedience to not be circumcised the 8th day after birth.

Being circumcised did not bring someone into the Abraham covenant. It was a family covenant, and one had to be seed of Abraham and since he and Sarah were without children it was originally only, he and she in this covenant until Isaac, the Promised one, was born.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Blame yourself for being incapable of dealing with evidence. Your problem is your lack of knowledge. You tried to blame such on me just a couple of posts ago.

YES, I DID AND WAS SUCCESSFUL.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Lost the Scriptures. Pay attention. Read what I wrote.
I haven't referenced them once in any of interactions. Stop deflecting. I simply made the argument Hebrews do it too.
Maybe you've forgotten your Constitution. You know... HUMAN rights. It is an recent English word in comparison to "Jew" which comes from Greek. It does not have a direct relationship to "Adam" but it certain is a synonym relative to the human race as "Adam" is to "mankind".

Mankind is not in the bible. That word was coined thousands of years far removed from the bible.

You're the one appealing to Jew as if it existed with Eber. Now you're making the same argument otherwise that I made.

I never said it existed with Eber. I merely used Hebrew and Jew interchangeably.

Gentile is an English word that comes from the Greek source I mentioned earlier. You're the one appealing to Eber when the "nations" began with the sons of Noah. Not the grandson of Noah..... Eber.

Nations is in the bible. Gentile is in the bible. Nations was used as early as Ishmael and Jacob's kids began to multiply. But at this time, it did not mean "Gentile." But once Ishamel and Esau's children were being born and became tribes in Canaan it applied to non-Hebrews.

Your haste caused you to make a mistake. Just own it.