Peterlag
Well-known member
I don't believe anything that you believe. There's no such thing as God the son.
The Old Testament: Obsolete and Embarrassing or still valid today?
- Thread starter koberstein
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Peterlag
Well-known member
There is not one verse that says Jesus is God the Son. Nor has there ever been a teaching on it anywhere in the Bible. The Jews never saw it anywhere in the entire Old Testament nor anyone in the New Testament ever taught it. The Catholics who invented this nonsense have used only about 8 verses that they have to piece together from statements that are scattered all over the New Testament. One should think if such nonsense was true and important that it would have been taught by someone. And it is not. Only in the minds of Catholics who cannot explain it.1. Christ is Eternal.
1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
2. Christ was slain from the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
1Pe 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
3. Mankind rejected God's promises and purpose a very long time ago. Humanity has suffered because of this.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
I encourage you to study yourself. Stop blindly accepting what you've heard. Those a Berea challenged the apostles. There is not wrong with challenging what you hear from others. Job learned that he didn't know God as good as he thought he did. The apostles themselves struggled with abandoning their perceived ideas and idols of imaginations.
My purpose in life is the same as Paul.
2Co 10:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
2Co 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds
2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
civic
Well-known member
The Scriptures say the opposite.
The Sons pre existence in John’s gospel. There are dozens of other scriptures in other places verifying the Eternal existence of the Son.
John 1:1-3
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God.
All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
John 1:14
14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory
These verses in John’s prologue reveal the pre existence of the Eternal Word/Son who was God and became flesh. He was the Creator of all things. Nothing came into existence apart from Him. He is before everything that has a beginning.
John 1:15
15 John bore witness of Him, and cried out, saying, "This was He of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.'"
John 1:30
"This is He on behalf of whom I said, 'After me comes a Man who has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.'
John the Baptist was 6 months older than Jesus Christ. So it is impossible for Christ to be before him unless Jesus pre existed.
John 3:13
No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven — the Son of Man.
Again we see the pre existence of the Son and where He declares that He came from heaven to earth.
John 3:17
"For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through Him.
This verse shows the Son was sent from heaven by the Father to the earth.
John 6:38
For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me.
Human beings come into existence when they are born into this world, but we surely do not come from Heaven.
John 8:23
"You are from beneath I Am from above, you are of this world I Am not of this world"
John 8:58
Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I Am."
Here we see that Jesus lets the Pharisees know that He existed as a person before Abraham was born. Once again we see Jesus claiming to be the Eternal God.
John 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.
John 17:1,5
“Father, the hour has come; glorify Your Son, that the Son may glorify You,
And now, Father, glorify Me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.
Here we see the Son declared that He shared the same Glory together with the Father prior to creation. This passage makes Him equal with the Father as the Eternal God. Below again we see His pre existence and in 17:25 Jesus again states the Father sent the Son into the world
John 17:24
"Father, I desire that they also, whom Thou hast given Me, be with Me where I am, in order that they may behold My glory, which Thou hast given Me; for Thou didst love Me before the foundation of the world.
And there are plenty more scriptures about His pre existence prior to His birth as a man.
Jude 1:25
to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.
And
Colossians 1:17
He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
These 2 verses say that he is before all things.
Revelation 22:16
"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."
Here we see that Jesus is the offspring of David, yet he is also the root of David, which at appears to show existance before King David.
Luke 10:18
He replied, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.
Compare Luke 10:18 with Revelation 12:1-10 and it appears that Satan and his angels fell to the earth before the birth of Christ as a man. Now we know that Jesus was the Word and was with God in the beginning and was God- John 1:1
Micah 5:2
"But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times."
So Jesus was with God in the beginning. We also know from certain scriptures that Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath and it is assumed that Jesus gave the Law. We are also told in Acts:7:30-39 that an Angel of the Lord appeared to Moses through whom God spoke and this is the same Angel who spoke to Moses on Mount Sinai and passed on the living words (The Law) to Moses.
30 "After forty years had passed, an angel appeared to Moses in the flames of a burning bush in the desert near Mount Sinai.
31 When he saw this, he was amazed at the sight. As he went over to look more closely, he heard the Lord's voice:
32 'I am the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.'Moses trembled with fear and did not dare to look.
33 "Then the Lord said to him, 'Take off your sandals; the place where you are standing is holy ground.
34 I have indeed seen the oppression of my people in Egypt. I have heard their groaning and have come down to set them free. Now come, I will send you back to Egypt.'
35 "This is the same Moses whom they had rejected with the words, 'Who made you ruler and judge?' He was sent to be their ruler and deliverer by God himself, through the angel who appeared to him in the bush.
36 He led them out of Egypt and did wonders and miraculous signs in Egypt, at the Red Sea and for forty years in the desert.
37 "This is that Moses who told the Israelites, 'God will send you a prophet like me from your own people.'
38 He was in the assembly in the desert, with the angel who spoke to him on Mount Sinai, and with our fathers; and he received living words to pass on to us.
39 "But our fathers refused to obey him. Instead, they rejected him and in their hearts turned back to Egypt.
We are then told in 1 Corinthians 10:1-4
1 For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers, that our forefathers were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea.
2 They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea.
3 They all ate the same spiritual food
4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.
So is the Angel of the Lord, Christ? Well I am not sure, but I know that Christ accompanied Moses and the Israelites. Perhaps the correct model to look at is the one mentioned in Revelation 1:1
The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,
Here we can see that the order of the Revelation started with the Originator which is God. He then passed it to Jesus Christ who sent it to his Angel and then to John. So perhaps it is possible that the Angel mentioned is the same Angel mentioned in Acts:7:30-39. Either way it still suggests that Jesus Christ existed at the time of Moses.
Moving on we read the following in this passage.
Hebrews 1:1-2
1 In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.
Verse 2 is talking about the son and it says that God made the universe through him, (in the context of him being a son). The word universe in this scripture means Age.
aion {ahee-ohn'}
1) for ever, an unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity
2) the worlds, universe
3) period of time, age
We even use the word 'aion' (eon or aeon) in English to refer to Age. So if we read the last part of this verse as AGE, we get the following: appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the age.
hope this helps !!!
civic
Well-known member
And I will toss this one in free of charge.
Philippians 2:5-11
5 Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
7 but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death even death on a cross!
9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Surely the above verses assumes preexistence. Another look at verse 7: but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. This verse points out that Jesus humbled himself to become a (or like a) human and also a servant. So this suggests to us that he preexisted in a higher state because to humble oneself is to become lower. If he started life in this humbled state, then it would be incorrect to say that he humbled himself.
This verse is often used in support of the trinity doctrine because of the word 'equal'. But if you are equal to something it means that you are not that thing or person rather you are like that thing or person . This scripture is also very clear about the following: The Father is God and Jesus is Lord and that God exalted Jesus to the highest place.
A closer look at verse 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: Now I am not sure if Jesus was exalted higher than he was before he came to this world or whether he was exalted to the exact position that he had before. But if we look at John 17:5 again we can see that Jesus asked to return to his former glory that the Son shared equally alongside the Father before creation.
hope this helps !!!
Philippians 2:5-11
5 Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
7 but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death even death on a cross!
9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Surely the above verses assumes preexistence. Another look at verse 7: but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. This verse points out that Jesus humbled himself to become a (or like a) human and also a servant. So this suggests to us that he preexisted in a higher state because to humble oneself is to become lower. If he started life in this humbled state, then it would be incorrect to say that he humbled himself.
This verse is often used in support of the trinity doctrine because of the word 'equal'. But if you are equal to something it means that you are not that thing or person rather you are like that thing or person . This scripture is also very clear about the following: The Father is God and Jesus is Lord and that God exalted Jesus to the highest place.
A closer look at verse 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: Now I am not sure if Jesus was exalted higher than he was before he came to this world or whether he was exalted to the exact position that he had before. But if we look at John 17:5 again we can see that Jesus asked to return to his former glory that the Son shared equally alongside the Father before creation.
hope this helps !!!
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
They weren't the only kings. There were 19 northern kingdom kings and 20 southern kingdom kings. The most obedient were David and Josiah. First it was the northern kingdom of Israel that was conquered by Assyria in 722 BC. The kingdom of Judah was more difficult to defeat. But after Babylon defeated Assyria Judah later fell in 586 BC. I think I know more than you do.
When Jesus arrived, He made several attempts at laying the groundwork for the unification of both kingdoms. But it wasn't to be because He did not come to unify the kingdom. One attempt was made in Matthew 5 with the sermon on the Mount.
The problem you have that affects your understanding of the covenants God made with Abram the Hebrew and later with his seed is that you look into these things with a Gentile mindset and right there is your failing. You say non-Hebrew Gentiles are in the Abrahamic Covenant and you use Galatians 3:28-29 but these verses and the ones above them are addressed to those under the Law (or schoolmaster.) Gentiles were never under the Law. And why is it after Israel was destroyed by the Romans that Gentiles began to claim to being in the Abraham covenant? If Gentiles were in the Abraham Covenant where is the proof in Scripture before Jesus arrived and even during His time on earth? The gospels are silent on this question, and do you know why? Because Gentiles hated the Jews, and the Jews hated Gentiles and neither had dealings with each other. If Gentiles were in the Abraham covenant Jesus would have said so in all His teachings, but He didn't, and the reason is because Gentiles were NEVER in any of the three Hebrew covenants and Jesus was sent ONLY to the lost sheep of the House of Israel NOT to Gentiles.
There is nothing in the gospels of non-Hebrew Gentiles claiming to be in the Abraham covenant. If they were Jesus would have had something to teach Israel towards their inclusion, but such inclusion is impossible. Jesus has only ONE Bride and His Bride is Israel. There is NOTHING in all of the Bible that says God made covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles. All of these lies are only misinterpretation of Scripture. Beginning with Galatians 3:28-29.
Saul wrote his letter to Jewish Christians in the Galatian region around 48-49 AD. That's about sixteen years after Jesus ascended. Why isn't there any record in those sixteen years of non-Hebrew Gentiles claiming to be in the Abraham covenant? Why didn't Jesus say something about this change in the Law? Why didn't Jesus say such a thing about a change in the Abraham covenant that He was including non-Hebrew Gentiles in the Abraham Covenant after the fact and after this covenant had been made and closed for about 3,000 years before Jesus' arrival? In order to bring non-Hebrew Gentiles into the Abraham Covenant Jesus would have said so at such a significant change in the Abraham Covenant even after it had been closed for 3,500 years. Here is your answer:
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Matt. 5:17–19.
Adding non-Hebrew Gentiles into the Abraham Covenant would have required a change in the covenant but Jesus says He didn't come to change any Laws or covenants because any change in the Law or the covenants would destroy the Law, and the covenants and Jesus says He didn't come to add anyone to the Abraham Covenant. All the Abraham Covenant Promises were made to Abraham and to his seed and non-Hebrew Gentiles are NOT Abraham's seed. Any claim that non-Hebrew Gentiles are in the Abraham Covenant would necessitate a change in the original covenant and this would destroy the covenant as originally given by God to Abraham and to his seed. But I am here to tell you that such an addition of non-Hebrew Gentiles being in the Abraham Covenant is Gentile lies. To get to the Abraham Covenant you have to skip over the Mosaic Covenant which covenant numbers 613 Laws. Why do the jump over the Mosaic Covenant in order to fit themselves nicely into the Abraham Covenant?
The three Hebrew covenants are progressive in nature and God builds upon the Abraham Covenant by making an additional covenant with the children of Israel that compliments the Abraham Covenant. The Mosaic Covenant came with God's Laws to Abraham's seed. How can non-Hebrew Gentiles be in the Abraham Covenant as the children of Israel are and not have God's Laws in which to live by? To claim of being in the Abraham covenant and jump over the Mosaic Covenant would mean non-Hebrew Gentiles do not have God's Laws to live under and this would make them a lawless people who live according to their own rules and regulations and in the vanity of their minds. There is such a great big hole in the progressive covenants of God as He has with the children of Israel which eventually led to the New Covenant in Jesus' blood. If Jesus came to fulfill the Law, then non-Hebrew Gentiles would have to be in the Mosaic Covenant along with Israel and receive God's Laws to lead and guide their lives in Christ. But none of the apostles and prophets of the Lord ever make the claim that is necessary if non-Hebrew Gentiles are to be in the Abraham Covenant they would also must needs to be also in the Mosaic Covenant along with the children of Israel in order to be given God's Laws to them in which to live by, Laws that teach how to build a Tabernacle and offer animal sacrifices in order to atone as prelude the sins of the children of Israel in preparation of God sending His only begotten Son as substitute for the animal sacrifice and die for the children of who? How many tribes of non-Hebrew Gentiles and what are their names? Where is the history of non-Hebrew Gentiles of whom God had protected, given them land to live in, to fight against other Gentile enemies and so forth. Who is the Gentile high priest? Where is the Gentile high priest? Where are the Gentile prophets that would prophesy that non-Hebrew Gentiles are in the Abraham and Mosaic Covenants just as Israel is and where did God place them by lot around the Tabernacle built by who? Moses? Who is the Gentile lawgiver like Moses? What kind of Gentile breastplate was made for the Gentil high priest? Is there even a Gentile Temple in which they offer sacrifices and burn incense? What Gentile did God make covenant with and what is his name? How many tribes were there of Gentile families and why doesn't Jesus Christ go into Gentile lands to herald that He is their Savior and King? Where is their Gentile kingdom? Oh, there are hundreds of questions about this so-called inclusion of non-Hebrew Gentiles in the Mosaic Covenant. Where and who wrote their prophetic Scripture and their history as a people slated to one day become a new addition into the three Hebrew Covenants? If non-Hebrew Gentiles are in the Abraham Covenant, they would also have to be in the Mosaic Covenant in order to participate in the New Covenant. God made Israel go through these things. Why didn't God make non-Hebrew Gentiles go through these progressive covenants that build upon each other?
This is the bottom line...
There are no non-Hebrew Gentiles in any of the three Hebrew covenants. None. Zero, zip, zilch, nada. It is only Gentile lies to usurp the Israel of God from His true covenant people - Abraham and his seed, a people called the children of Israel.
Who are the children of Gentiles and what is his name? Enquiring minds want to know!
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
You must not have read the Bible. Pay more attention to what the Bible says and not what anyone else says.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
And I will toss this one in free of charge.
Philippians 2:5-11
5 Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
7 but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death even death on a cross!
9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Surely the above verses assumes preexistence. Another look at verse 7: but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. This verse points out that Jesus humbled himself to become a (or like a) human and also a servant. So this suggests to us that he preexisted in a higher state because to humble oneself is to become lower. If he started life in this humbled state, then it would be incorrect to say that he humbled himself.
This verse is often used in support of the trinity doctrine because of the word 'equal'. But if you are equal to something it means that you are not that thing or person rather you are like that thing or person . This scripture is also very clear about the following: The Father is God and Jesus is Lord and that God exalted Jesus to the highest place.
A closer look at verse 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: Now I am not sure if Jesus was exalted higher than he was before he came to this world or whether he was exalted to the exact position that he had before. But if we look at John 17:5 again we can see that Jesus asked to return to his former glory that the Son shared equally alongside the Father before creation.
hope this helps !!!
Amazing what little people know.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Solomon had how many sons? You're not saying anything that affects what I said. Nothing. You can believe you know more and that is fine. You're simply bloviating because you can not defend your claims.
Abraham was a Gentile. A sinner. He could not please God without faith. Abraham was not even circumcised on the 8th day.
You really haven't given this much thought at all.
The father and mother of Gentiles were Adam and Eve. The same father and mother of all mankind.
TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY
Well-known member
Now , my near and dear friend , you are on to something huge and yet very simple even a child could grasp it .
Notice that abraham was called out . Now the lineage was of shem , but i sure didnt notice ALL of shem
getting called out . A key , the flesh profits nothing.
WHEN abraham was called was it in circumsion or still in uncircumsion , according to the law .
WHAT did abraham DO that pleased GOD . and HE Did it WHEN . WHEN STILL in uncircumcision .
Circumcision was the sealer that came after THE FAITH . Abraham HAD HIM SOME FAITH . HIMS BELEIVED GOD .
Abraham was not called out because he was of SHEM , though that was the Son of noah by whom the Israel would emerge from .
BUT still many of shem , for shem and all his descendants had many families , it was abraham alone that was called .
KEY . THIS was the doing of the LORD and not of man .
Not of all israel , who came later through Issac and rebekaah , IS OF ISRAEL .
YOUSEE , the flesh dont amount to squat when it cometh to WHAT GOD DESIRES .
The father and mother of gentiles were adama and eve , WHO were the also the father and mother of even Israel .
BUT , what really matters my friend .
WAS GOD pleased with even those who came of abraham , who later came of jacob , who was later named Israel .
NO SIR . Now GOD seemed pleased with something abraham did , and something even jacob did
and later even others , LIKE KING david did . THEM folks had hearts for GOD . now none of them were perfect
and i am sure evil was present in all their flesh . BUT SOMETHING THEY DID SEEMED TO PLEASE GOD .
THEY SEEMED TO BELEIVE GOD . Thus they obeyed GOD . sure we know king david slipped here and there .
BUT that same KING david also repented WHEN he wasSHOWN his error .
A heart after GOD . And as abraham , as later the prophets , as even king david hadseen
A PROMISE that would fullfilll all things and reconcile man back to GOD , A SEED , a savoir
a King was coming . AND THEY BELEIVED IT . the key is
WHOM do we believe . Sheep have existed even before CHRIST came and sheep existed during his walk on earth
and sheep existed through all generations , even today we gots sheep in the house .
GUESS WHO THEY BELIEVE , IN GOD , IN JESUS THE CHRIST whom the FATHER SENT
and guess what they know , THE FLESH OF MAN WILL NEVER PROFIT a man , whether one be born
of the flesh according to the lineage of abraham or if one be born of the gentile . NOT a darn thing
profits them on how they were born of a man and a woman , but rather , IS ONE and has ONE BEEN BORN AGAIN .
IN OTHER WORDS , ITS JESUS PREACHING TIME cause nothing else matters .
TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY
Well-known member
The one reason and the one reason alone that you got a big ol fat i loves it , was because
you said something right . WE NEEDS TO BE READING and paying attention to the BIBLE
rather than what many men be trying to teach today . This is known as TIME TO GET A FACE FULL OF BIBLE for ourselves .
Because on this last page , number fifteen page alone , i seen a whole lot of knowledge from some
but NOT MUCH on THE TRUTH ITSELF . that be a real bad sign . Oh yes
several folks , WHOM i disagree with , had a ton of truths in their posts , BUT SURE DONT SEEM
to know THE TRUTH . we better watch out . IT is BIBLE TIME IN THE HOUSE my near and my dear friends .
Cause scholars and much all of christendom is leading folks down a dead end road and under the guise of a false love
that while it had truths , IT KNEW NOT THE TRUTH NOR CAME OF THE TRUTH , it used truths to seduce and to decieve .
I KNOW OF ONLY ONE that DO THAT , the devil himself . BIBLE UP folks .
Marvelloustime
Member
Brother is spotted.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
I do notice the "we." There is only ONE true Son of the Living God and Israel is His adopted son(s.) But there is no reference in Scripture God anywhere adopts non-Hebrew Gentiles. The three Hebrew covenants are between God, Abram the Hebrew and with his Hebrew seed. The Mosaic Covenant is between God and the children of Israel made at Mount Sinai through Moses. The New Covenant prophesied in the 700s BC by Jeremiah is between God and both northern and southern kingdoms of Israel and Judah. There are no non-Hebrew Gentiles in any of these three covenants.
The foundation of all three Hebrew Covenants is God and the Hebrew people through Abraham. The rest of humanity are non-Hebrew and not in any of these covenants between God and the Hebrew people through Abraham. I have said nothing else. You and other non-Hebrew Gentiles falsely believe that non-Hebrew Gentiles are in the Abraham Covenant, but they are not. God has no covenant at all with non-Hebrew Gentiles. You and others take Galatians 3:28-29, words written by Saul to Jews and Jewish Christians in the Galatian region and interpret "there is neither Jew nor Greek" to mean Greek = Gentiles and this is incorrect on many levels. But the main one is that God has never made any covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles in Scripture and only a true child of God will take what's written in Scripture as written and cannot be broken by adding things to Scripture that just are not there. It is your interpretations of the Word that is in error. As for me, I do not add to Scripture, nor do I interpret Scripture beyond what is written.
Every lawbook in all non-Hebrew Gentile nations and peoples copy God and His Laws given to the children of Israel. Non-Hebrew Gentiles are not under God's Laws, but they have copied God and His Laws but not submit to Him. As Saul says, they are not under the Law but have copied God's Laws and make attempt to live under their own laws and at the same time shake their fists at God declaring "we shall never submit to you." They are a law unto themselves.
They were never written. God's instruction to Adam and his children were verbal. They were also written in the stars which star names and configurations "spell" out the prophecies eventually written on stone and clay revealing the prophecies of Israel's Great Deliverer to come and what will happen when He does and after in the last days. This star-bible is what Enoch understood and which enabled him to see the Lord's second coming before the first ("the Lord coming with ten thousand of His saints" Jude 1:14.)
God's Law(s) and not written in the consciences of all men for God declared His Law in the Person of the Holy Spirit will be put in the inward parts of only His people.
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. Jn 14:16–17.
Not even God gives that which is holy (His Word/Law) to "dogs" (non-Hebrew Gentiles) nor does He cast His Pearls (His Word, wisdom) to swine (unclean animals meaning non-Hebrew Gentiles.) As you can see the "world" (of non-elect) Gentiles cannot receive the Spirit of Truth. The Spirit of Truth is a Gift of God given to only His covenant people and that people are the Hebrew people.
There are three kinds of consciences. Good, defiled and seared. And each is formed by external influences.
I find the purposes of God towards all humanity only in these two conditions:
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. Jn 16:8–11.
Of sin and of righteousness, and both are judged of God.
But not all men are chosen of God. From the Garden there have always been only two kinds of people born into the world: the seed of the woman and the seed of the serpent. God has guided His elect people in the Garden and outside the Garden. There have always been those who obeyed God (Seth and those elect of Seth, and those not obedient from the other children of Adam and the woman.) For the purposes of God, He destroyed everyone except eight people but only one received God's grace: Noah. That grace extended to Noah's son, Shem, and Noah's other two sons were left to their own devices. And when one is honest with Scripture one can see that God has blessed one certain family out of all families/offspring born into the world. Eventually, God singled out one man to be the father of his people and that one person was a son of Shem: Abram the Hebrew, a descendant of Eber.
In general, not specific.
Did God have good words for those in whom their hearts were evil continually? Were these people blessed or cursed of God? Everyone who died in the flood died separated from God. Only one man found grace in the eyes of God: Noah. As for Satan? The angels that sinned were locked up BEFORE God created man (Adam.) So, the Gentile belief that Lucifer reigns over sinners is a lie. Sin reigns over sinners, not any fallen or elect angel. Every man will answer for their own sin. And Lucifer/Satan doesn't have "his own" because God has never given Lucifer/Satan any human to be "his own." All souls belong to God.
Nah. I am being made into the image of Christ and that is my sanctification.
TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY
Well-known member
Rather odd then what even john writes to the church about he who beleives JESUS IS THE SON of GOD .
peter , you lagging far behind the apostel peter . You aint muslim justifying are ya .
He who beleives JESUS is the SON of GOD . try reading some bible for YOU . for you my friend .
And do repeat after me , the muslims do not know GOD , love GOD , follow GOD at all .
Of course i am not saying you do say the muslims and us worship the same GOD either . But
i do know what inclusivity is tryingto do to the church and i just hope you dont get caught up in its false love . that is all i am saying my friend .
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
Knowing that the Abraham Covenant is between God Abram the Hebrew and his seed and that the Mosaic Covenant is between God and Abram's seed, a people known as the children of Abram's grandson, Jacob, and the New Covenant is between God and the House of Israel and of Judah, and that the Holy Spirit is Promised to the children of Israel and that I have been born again by the Holy Spirit of Promise I can only conclude that somewhere in my family ancestry was at least one Hebrew parent and that my salvation was that in my present generation of three older brothers and three older sisters, I am the only one who has to date been given the Holy Spirit of Promise which is proof that my name is written in the lamb's book of life.
Looking at everything in hindsight we see that Abraham's seed are joint-heirs with Christ.
Jew is only a derivative of Judah, one of the sons of Jacob. Jude, Judas, they are all derivatives of Judah.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
Abram the Hebrew and his seed are the only joint-heirs with Christ.
I never said she was.
And both have been forgiven by God.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying,
Know the LORD:
For they shall all know me,
From the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD:
For I will forgive their iniquity,
And I will remember their sin no more.
Jer. 31:34.
This was done at the cross. ALL of Abraham's seed since then have been restored to God for that was the purpose of Christ and He accomplished it.
All three Hebrew covenants (Abraham, Mosaic, and New) are between God and the Hebrew people beginning with Abraham. It is for these people that Christ died. The Bible does not teach Universalism as you do. Nor does the Bible teach Pelagianism or any other kind of Gentile theology.
Jesus Christ died for those and only those who are under the Law, under the schoolmaster: Israel.
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. Gal. 4:4–5.
It cannot be any clearer.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
First, I'm not going to entertain your bloviations.
Interesting that you refuse to deal with mankind before Abraham relative to covenants and THEN......
Appeal the Adam and Eve.
Either include Adam and Eve in everything relative to your theology or admit that you're just "picking and choosing" what you want to rant about.
I do have a question relative to this appeal from Scriptures.....
It appears you actually believe that all human beings were not born of a women? You're appealing to Gnostic beliefs concerning the book of Enoch. You obvious believe that certain "children" were born of they physical seed of demons.
How do you know you don't have a demon in your lineage?
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Did you notice that you used the word "with" that sentence. You used the word "with" as if it didn't mean immortality is dependent upon the only Eternal heir of Abraham and those that heir grants life.
That creates a "pecking order"... You have nothing to claim relative to being an heir of Abraham.... except WITH Christ.
Again. The only Eternal heir of Abraham is Jesus Christ. You either get life from Him or you do not get life at all.
The word Jew is English. That English word has a derivative history that ONLY comes into view through Esther and Judah's relationship with the Greek/Gentile world. You wouldn't even have the word "Jew" without this Gentile world. It was "coined" first in Greek. Not Hebrew.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Not corporately, but individually in Christ. They were harlots just like all the descendent of mankind.
How many times are you going say this? You're deflecting. I knew this before you said anything. I know the position you have without even knowing you. I study.
Tell me, why is Jesus referenced as the second Adam and not the second Abraham by "Saul"?
Go for it. Make some sense.
If Christ died as a man, God's integrity demands that it must be for all men.
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