Peterlag
Well-known member
If you believe Jesus is God. Then you have never been free of the Catholic doctrine.
The Old Testament: Obsolete and Embarrassing or still valid today?
- Thread starter koberstein
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Peterlag
Well-known member
I do not know why we have so many Christians who believe the entire Bible is written directly to them, the Church of God. There is nothing in the Bible to indicate such thinking, and I would like to add nothing could be further from the truth. It's true the Word of God was written for everyone for all time, and it's for our learning because it contains what everyone should know. That does not mean every part of it is addressed to everyone in this time, because the subject matter was written either to the Jews, to the Gentiles, or to the Church of God (1 Corinthians 10:32).
To rightly understand the Word of God, one must understand what part is written to the Church of God and what part is written for the learning of the Church. Every word from Genesis 1:1, to Revelation 22:21, is written for our learning. However, not all of the words from Genesis 1:1, to Revelation 22:21, are addressed to us. We must learn to distinguish not only the various people, but also the different time periods God has spoken to if we want to understand the written Word of God. The time God spoke to the children of Israel is not the same time period He has spoken to us. The time He spoke to the prophets in the time of the Old Testament is not the same time period He spoke to His Son Jesus Christ in the time of the gospels.
DavidTree
Well-known member
Two questions for you.
The first is a True or False statement.
The second is a question that requires two correct answers.
#1 - If you do not believe JESUS words, then you will never be free - period!!! = True or False
#2 - How does a counterfeit (money/jewelry/art) become real???
civic
Well-known member
Maybe look at it like this. All sound doctrine must begin with God at the top of the mountain/pyramid and flow down from there. Gods nature/character is where we begin with good theology ( the study of God ). Gods innate attributes all work together in perfect harmony and unison. This is the main reason I left calvinism because in my mind/heart it went against Gods character/nature. One has to be open and teachable to examine what they believe in light of who God is and when we examine the life and character of Jesus we can see that demonstrated throughout His ministry.
DavidTree
Well-known member
Good Morning my Brother in Adonai YAHshua HaMashiach
i was lit UP just now by the Oil in my Lamp to SEE what is lacking
Your statement is true in this aspect = "reasonable"
What is lacking is the Oil that let's us KNOW it goes beyond reasonable to BELIEVABLE.
IMPORTANT: i am NOT saying NOR even suggesting in the least way, that you are lacking the Oil/Holy Spirit
morality and education is ABSOLUTELY necessary
When you add the Oil to education(which comes first) and morality(by itself cannot fully suffice) you have a 3 Fold Cord that is not easily broken!
Oil keeps the Gears from binding
when men believe they can keep on hiding
from the Truth that Speaks from Above
in our hearts, the Voice of the Dove
SHALOM
DavidTree
Well-known member
Read just now = GOOD STUFF my BROTHER and TRUE = thank you
i think you will SEE that Post345 AGREES with your Post
civic
Well-known member
That very search for truth which caused me to leave calvinism resulted in a thesis paper I wrote on the topic that I have on a thread on this forum. I will provide you with a link that your can read at your own leisure if the Lord leads you my friend.
DavidTree
Well-known member
i was raised RCC and SAVED out of it
then i fed , like a new born babe, on teachings from John McArthur and David Jeremiah = important and necessary milk from Scripture
God sent me to Baptist churches and to Penetcostal churches and Messianic churches and others in between
On my knees each day, praying with the Book(s) Open = i only want to know & believe His EXACT TRUTH
The Anointing HE gave (it is for all who BELIEVE) so that i would no longer be a slave to every wind of doctrine of men!!!
KEEP that which is TRUTH and that which contradicts HIS EXACT words = throw OUT
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
I haven't said anything about the word "Hebrew". You're the one conflating words. Not me.
There is no Jew without circumcision.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and all his twelve son's bodies are in the ground corrupted. Is that call an "ETERNAL HEIR"?
Pay attention.
The word "Jew" wasn't used UNTIL the Greek culture began to influence Israel. You're conflating terms. The Hebrew Scriptures were lost for a very long time. Nehemiah recovered some portion of the Scriptures. However, they were soon lost themselves. The Greek OT preserved the Hebrew Scriptures.
If you ever want to get into manuscript evidence itself instead of this "theoretical" belief you've fostered, then let me know.
Until then, you have nothing but conjecture. There is no ego to be found in the Truth. Your beliefs are full of ego and pride. I seek to destroy all men's ego. All men have a problem with ego and if you'll ever let that side of you go, then you might just find peace in Christ.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Its not that I don't believe God is with me. I do. I just never use it as argument to establish what I believe to be the Truth.
God doesn't need me. I need Him. God has others and I have no idea who they are. Many are at different stages of development. I'm not here to criticize anyone preaching Christ or praising His name. No praise is due me.
DavidTree
Well-known member
On another Hebrew note, i would like to share this as i believe you will find quite interesting - it is a perspective that i believed for a long time.
A LAMB BORN IN BETHLEHEM – NAZARENE NOTES
nazarenesoftheworld.info
SHALOM
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
That's too bad you need to add the God's Word and haven't been disciplined to accept His Word as written.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
"Gentile did not come into existence until Abram the Hebrew entered into covenant with God and besides the covenant which no one else alive had with God, God sealed the covenant to first, be with the Hebrews of whom were the obedient descendants of Eber, and second, sealing the covenant to be specifically with Abram the Hebrew and sealed by circumcision. No other people were added to this covenant since it was only ONE man named Abram the Hebrew and each succeeding generation (Isaac, Jacob, etc.), expected the covenant as an inheritance when the promise of land had not been realized. The promises of making Abram's name great and to have descendants as the stars in the heavens as well as blessings were to take time (descendants) but also immediate (blessings.) God made clear Isaac was to be recipient of the covenant:
19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.
Gen. 17:18–19.
Everything one needs to understand about this covenant with Abram the Hebrew and his descendants is found in Genesis 12, 15, and 17. One does not need to ADD to this covenant things that are not there. It shows that person who does this as ignorant and dishonest.
No, it proves that God was keeping His promise by changing Abram's name to Abraham thus establishing that merely being a father was one thing but being a father of many establishes the beginning of God fulfilling his Promises and the first sign of God keeping His promises was to give Abraham and Sarah, his wife, a son whom God named "Isaac."
This is not hard to understand. If the Hebrew people came from Eber to Abraham and Abraham's wife was also his niece, then their offspring would be a Hebrew child (Isaac.) At this point in time "nations" may have been the Hebrew word "goy/goyim" but it did not mean Gentile as it is used today meaning "non-Hebrew" for the word is used to refer to Abraham and Sarah's offspring being in one child (Ishmael) half-Hebrew/half-Egyptian, as God says that Isaac was the seed of Promise and Ishmael was not (Rom. 9:7-13.) The inheritance then went to Jacob and NOT Esau although all of them were the seed of Abraham. You need to do a study of who took who as wife and follow the bloodlines that are listed in Scripture by God. Through both Ishmael and Jacob Abraham's descendants began to multiply however, despite this seed explosion the promises were inherited by Isaac, Jacob, and when he died to his twelve sons and when the promises were not totally realized the inheritance continued on to the descendants of the twelve sons of Jacob until we get to the time Jesus arrived and also decades and centuries after that. But at the time of Abraham and Sarah who were both Hebrew God saying that "nations" and "kings" will be "of them" refers to both the descendants of Ishmael and Isaac. "Nations" and "kings" came from both of Ishmaels' and Jacob's descendants, but "nations" did not mean "Gentile" because only an idiot would think "Gentiles" (non-Hebrew) would be born from two Hebrew parents and so on (meaning these offspring - at least where Jacob was concerned - married withing their families meaning more Hebrew children would be born. Ishmael married an Egyptian woman and also had other non-Hebrew wives which led to many "nations" and of whom many had been "kings." The word "nations" did not mean "Gentile" at the time but only as an identifier that one did not marry a fellow Hebrew and instead their children were of mixed heritage. "Nation" did not mean "Gentile or "non-Hebrew." Else, how do you explain the term "nation of Israel" who are Hebrew if you believe the tern "nation" means "non-Hebrew." Without going deeper into this subject I can tell you have not studied the genealogy in Genesis and Matthew and Luke. You haven't studied any of this and it shows.
"Holy Nation"? You mean the Jews? But I thought you said "nations" means "non-Hebrew Gentile"?
Your ignorance shows. You don't even know what you believe.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
In history the LORD told Abraham that he would have a son and to name him Isaac. God also told Abraham that the covenant promises would be transferred to Isaac, then to Jacob, and so on. Although Ishmael and Esau were both blessed of God through their association with Abraham by being his seed, the promises went through Isaac. And those of whom the promise did not go through (Ishmael and Esau and their descendants) the promises went to Isaac's seed as promised by God.
19 And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him. Gen. 17:19.
Pay attention:
20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.
21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year. Gen. 17:20–21.
The descendants of Isaac (Jacob and his twelve sons, etc.) were possessive of this declaration of God that the covenant will go through Isaac even though Ishmael was also a seed of Abraham - but NOT Sarah. Each son of Jacob and their descendants through oral transmission understood God saying the everlasting covenant would go through Isaac NOT ISHMAEL and that both would be a great nation, and kings would come from each family.
God called each a "nation" so how can you assign the word "Gentile" which in time meant non-Hebrew to a nation of Hebrews? How can Hebrews be "non-Hebrew Gentiles?" How does a non-Hebrew Gentile be born from Hebrew parents??? That's like saying two Russian parents had a Mexican child! Stoopid!
Look, I'm not your teacher so why don't you spend some time studying genealogy in Genesis, Matthew, and Luke and come back when you've rightly discerned the Word of Truth. Non-Hebrew children being born of two Hebrew parents. Haha LOL.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
More lies. Blinded and ignorant.
DavidTree
Well-known member
Pay ATTENTION to the HOLY SPIRIT concerning the descendants of the flesh of Abraham: Romans 9:1-12
I tell the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit, that I have great sorrow and continual grief in my heart. For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh, who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises; 5of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.
But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham;
but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.”
That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God;
but the children of the promise are counted as the seed.
For this is the word of promise: “At this time I will come and Sarah shall have a son.”
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Interesting that you would recognize this and then claim that Jew started with Eber. You're all over the place. Nothing is consistent with your claims. You simply engage in endless false narratives.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
I can tell your definition of "Christians" and "Church" refer to non-Hebrew Gentiles. You are wrong.
Every Hebrew from Moses onward knows about his prophecy that God will "raise up a Prophet like unto me" means and other prophecies of a Deliverer, Kinsman-Redeemer, etc., identify someone with the title of "Messiah" which in Greek is the word "Christos" and that those who looked forward to God sending this Messiah is a Messiah-ite or "Christian." Thus, the Greek term "Christos" only refers to Hebrews to whom the Promise of a Messiah/Christos would come, and when He did come He left and sent His Spirit who was Promised to the Hebrew people (Jer. 31:31-34) and that this Spirit of Promise promised to the Hebrews came to save and baptize into Messiah's body ONLY Hebrews/Jews for there are NO NON-HEBREW GENTILES in ANY of the three Hebrew Covenants. You're a Gentile trying to understand Hebrew history and culture with a Gentile mindset and by doing this you will end up with error.
Let me ask you...did God mention any non-Hebrew Gentiles to Abraham or Sarah when He made the covenant with Abraham and that the covenant would go to his son, Isaac, and then Jacob, and then Jacob's twelve sons and NOT Ishmael's twelve sons? Answer this.
Misunderstanding 1 Cor. 10:32.
Start at the beginning when the Abraham Covenant was made in Genesis 12, 15, and 17. Tell me....looking at these passages did God include any non-Hebrew Gentiles in the Abraham Covenant? I ask because you seem to think that two Hebrew parents (Abraham and Sarah; Isaac and Rebekah; Jacob and Rachel, Leah, and their two servants) can have a non-Hebrew children. That's like saying two Russian parents can have a Mexican baby. LOL. You are so mixed up it's embarrassing.
Every writer of the Bible from Genesis to Revelation is a Hebrew/Jew. And you think these covenant members are writing to non-Hebrew Gentiles? hahaha. LOL.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Nonsense. Job was not a descendent of Eber nor a descendent of Abraham. Enoch was not a descendent of Eber nor Abraham. Both Ishmael and Keturah have been blessed by the Father.
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