The mediocrity of Unitarianism. Where are the "John the Beloveds" in Unitarianism?

[praise_yeshua]

Sharing a personal testimony about "This is how I stopped drinking alcohol" can be as arrogant or as humble as sharing a personal testimony about "This is how I started believing in the deity of Christ".


The way Trinitarians show they worship Jesus is the same way Unitarians show they love Jesus.
We are about 118 posts in this thread, and nobody has presented any example of a real-life act that tells the difference between one group from the other.

Words. Real life acts include SPEAKING. In fact, words are the most important aspect of our existence. You keep denying this. Our differences in "words" have driven our conversation over these posts. You can't possibly make such a claim as you're making.

You do realize that Paul wrote much of what he wrote from prison?

Same can be said about other debates.

If the only difference between a Calvinist and an Arminian is what they write on the Internet, how can such difference be relevant?

Calvinist and Arminians can be significantly different. At times they can be surprisingly similar.

 

[mikesw]

Sharing a personal testimony about "This is how I stopped drinking alcohol" can be as arrogant or as humble as sharing a personal testimony about "This is how I started believing in the deity of Christ".


The way Trinitarians show they worship Jesus is the same way Unitarians show they love Jesus.
We are about 118 posts in this thread, and nobody has presented any example of a real-life act that tells the difference between one group from the other.

Same can be said about other debates.

If the only difference between a Calvinist and an Arminian is what they write on the Internet, how can such difference be relevant?

many Arianists say they can become just like Jesus by doing the same things he did while on earth. Jesus did works of the Father than only the Son of God could do. The Arianists then take up a works-oriented and over-inflated representation contrary to scripture. That should be significant corruptness of doctrine.

 

[Studyman]

You have forgotten your own sinfulness.

No, I have not forgotten.

"but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God "in Christ Jesus". Let us therefore, as many as be perfect (as the Jesus "of the Bible" commanded), be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

Yes, you say I'll never be able to obey Jesus and would turn me away from striving to be Faithful to Him and His Father as HE instructs. But HE told me you were coming, so I have no excuse to turn away from Him just so you won't judge me.

Jesus saved Peter. Peter didn't save Jesus.

Good for you PY. I agree 100% with this statement of yours.

Jesus saved John the Beloved. John the Beloved didn't save Jesus.

Again, Good for you PY. The truth of Scriptures is always good to know and believe.

Jesus never sinned because He is Eternally Immutable.

That is what you proclaim, right along with people like me don't Love Jesus. Forgive me if I don't swallow every word you proclaim hook, line and sinker. Here is what the Holy scriptures actually say about the Jesus "of the Bible"

Phil. 2: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and "became obedient unto death", even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore (Because of this) God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name "which is above every name":

Psalms 45: 6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.

7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore (Because of this) God, "thy God", "hath anointed thee" with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Who were the "Fellows" of the Jesus "of the Bible"? Other Gods? Or other men?

As far as "death is concerned". Jesus tasted death in the His human body. Jesus experienced death and humiliations at every human level but only His body literally DIED.

Of course, "only His Body died". Only Abraham's Body died as well. Only David's Body died as well. As the Jesus "of the Bible" teaches.

Matt. 22: 31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you "by God", saying, 32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, "but of the living".

God will send His Son to return someday, and raise Abraham, Isaac and Jacob from the dead, and as HE testified, for those who know and believe him "And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man "according as his work" shall be.

As Paul also teaches.

Rom. 2: 9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

And when will this day come?

Mark 13: 31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. 32 But of that day and that hour "knoweth no man", no, not the angels which are in heaven, "neither the Son", but the Father. 33Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.

And because I believe in this Jesus, and His Father who sent Him, you say I "drag down Jesus" and I "Don't Love Jesus". If you had conscience, you would be ashamed of yourself.

Even then, His body didn't decay. His body didn't fill with maggots. You need to study more.

Neither did Lazarus who was in the grave for 4 days, not 3. Perhaps it is you who should study more.

John 11: 39 Jesus said, Take ye away the stone. Martha, the sister of him that was dead, saith unto him, Lord, by this time he stinketh: for he hath been dead "four days".

40 Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see "the glory of God"?

41 Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, "I thank thee that thou hast heard me".

It is because that when men knew the God and Father of the Lord's Christ, they don't glorify HIM as God, instead they adopted an "image" of God in the likeness of some random long-haired men's hair shampoo model, and they declare, "This is my God".

My hope is that you might check yourself, instead of always judging and labeling others as beneath you.

You need to understand the Atonement.

Feast of Atonement was 2 days ago. In this Statute of God His Atonement is revealed to men who Seek His Kingdom and HIS Righteousness, as the Jesus "of the Bible" instructs. You preach to others that I don't Love Jesus. You preach to others that Jesus didn't sin, because HE was God. Now you want to preach to me that you know the Atonement of God and I don't. Surely even you must understand how foolish I would be to turn away from God's Word and listen to yours.

Only God experiencing our death could bring about Eternal life.

Immortal God cannot die, but His Son, the man Jesus did.

 

[praise_yeshua]

By doing what Jesus and all Messengers of God have told people to do.
Repent sincerely, submit our life to God, be born into a new life, a life of love and obedience.

Again. You see Jesus Christ is merely a messenger.

You false believe that you can be just like Jesus Christ. You can't. He is WAY ahead of you. He is Eternally God. He is altogether lovely. He has always pleased the Father.

You haven't done this. No mere man has. Eternal sacrifices require Eternal value.... He that spared not His OWN SON....

Rom 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

 

[Studyman]

Eternal life is gifted. Even though we must express faith, Eternal is still a gift that we can not earn.

Luke 13: 3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Rom. 2: 5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;6 Who will render to every man "according to his deeds":

7 To them who "by patient continuance in well doing" seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, "but obey unrighteousness", indignation and wrath,

I know what you preach. And I know What the Scriptures actually say. I invite you to deny yourself and follow the Jesus "of the Bible. You will be called names and labeled if you do. But as it is written:

1 Pet. 3:17 For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.

18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, "that he might bring us to God", being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: (God is a Spirit, according to the Jesus "of the bible")

It is the benevolence and kindness of Christ that gifts eternal life. The right for sinners to receive the gift of eternal life was established by Jesus Christ alone.

The Jesus of the Bible said:

John 17: 1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

2 As "thou hast given him power over all flesh", that he should give eternal life "to as many as thou hast given him". Shall I not believe in Him?

You, like many Protestants try to drag down Jesus Christ to man's sinful level.

Here we go again. What did I say that drags Jesus down to a sinful level? You Protestants are quick with the labels and accusations and judgments of others, but short on evidence to support your slander. Truly, there is nothing new under the sun.

Jesus didn't "wax old". Jesus didn't catch "leprosy" from being around lepers or countless other diseases He encountered.

So Jesus was still a tiny baby, who never aged, never "Grew in the knowledge of God", never "Learned obedience by the things HE suffered". Why didn't he "wax old"? Could it be because HE was murdered in His early 30's?

He prayed to the Father to keep Him from Leprosy, does that makes Him immortal God?

No matter how you "slice it". Jesus was never exactly like us in such things.

It is true that HE didn't adopt any of the images of God that existed in His Time as a human, like "many" who call Him Lord, Lord does. And HE never partook in the high days this world's religions created in worship of their images. And HE wasn't stubborn, selfish and stiff-necked because HE Humbled Himself to God. He "lived by" every Word of His Father and my Father. He put His Father's Will before His own from His Youth. But there were other men who repented from their sinful life and turned to God in obedience too. They had sin, but they repented and strived against it. We are also told:

Heb. 12: 1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a "cloud of witnesses", let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down "at the right hand of the throne of God". 3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds. 4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

We don't agree on Theology. But that doesn't mean I don't Love the Jesus "of the bible".

 

[DavidTree]

You haven't loved the Lord with all your heart, soul and strength.

That is a requirement only every meet by Jesus Christ. There are no others.

TRUTH , only the LORD Jesus Christ was able to fulfill the First Commandment in PERFECT 24/7 every breath and every step and every word n deed.

Thru the LORD Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit we are now capable of keeping His commandments.
Even though it is a BATTLE of the flesh to resist the SPIIRT.

The FATHER knows we are not capable to be 24/7 PEREFCT as the LORD but that in and thru HIM we are COMPLETE.

It is for the fulfillment of this COMPLETENESS that God sent His Son = Matthew 5:48
"Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect."

Be
Ἔσεσθε (Esesthe)
Verb - Future Indicative Middle - 2nd Person Plural
Strong's Greek 1510: I am, exist. The first person singular present indicative; a prolonged form of a primary and defective verb; I exist.

perfect,
τέλειοι (teleioi)
Adjective - Nominative Masculine Plural
Strong's Greek 5046: From telos; complete; neuter completeness.

therefore,
οὖν (oun)
Conjunction
Strong's Greek 3767: Therefore, then. Apparently a primary word; certainly, or accordingly.

as
ὡς (hōs)
Adverb
Strong's Greek 5613: Probably adverb of comparative from hos; which how, i.e. In that manner.

your
ὑμῶν (hymōn)
Personal / Possessive Pronoun - Genitive 2nd Person Plural
Strong's Greek 4771: You. The person pronoun of the second person singular; thou.

Heavenly
οὐράνιος (ouranios)
Adjective - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's Greek 3770: In heaven, belonging to heaven, heavenly, from heaven. From ouranos; celestial, i.e. Belonging to or coming from the sky.

Father
Πατὴρ (Patēr)
Noun - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's Greek 3962: Father, (Heavenly) Father, ancestor, elder, senior. Apparently a primary word; a 'father'.

is
ἐστιν (estin)
Verb - Present Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's Greek 1510: I am, exist. The first person singular present indicative; a prolonged form of a primary and defective verb; I exist.

perfect.
τέλειός (teleios)
Adjective - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's Greek 5046: From telos; complete; neuter completeness.

 

[DavidTree]

By doing what Jesus and all Messengers of God have told people to do.
Repent sincerely, submit our life to God, be born into a new life, a life of love and obedience.

What about this which the LORD says to you: John14:19-21

“A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also.
At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.
He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me.
And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”

What did the LORD emphatically state here???

 

[praise_yeshua]

Yes, you say I'll never be able to obey Jesus and would turn me away from striving to be Faithful to Him and His Father as HE instructs. But HE told me you were coming, so I have no excuse to turn away from Him just so you won't judge me.

I have never told you to stop "obeying Jesus". Retract that nonsense. Pay attention to what I say.

What I have done, it is rightfully insist that you recognize your failures. You're not doing this.

That is what you proclaim, right along with people like me don't Love Jesus. Forgive me if I don't swallow every word you proclaim hook, line and sinker. Here is what the Holy scriptures actually say about the Jesus "of the Bible"

Phil. 2: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and "became obedient unto death", even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore (Because of this) God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name "which is above every name":

Psalms 45: 6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.

7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore (Because of this) God, "thy God", "hath anointed thee" with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Who were the "Fellows" of the Jesus "of the Bible"? Other Gods? Or other men?

Humbling Himself "as man" requires Divinity.

Of course, "only His Body died". Only Abraham's Body died as well. Only David's Body died as well. As the Jesus "of the Bible" teaches.

Matt. 22: 31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you "by God", saying, 32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, "but of the living".

God will send His Son to return someday, and raise Abraham, Isaac and Jacob from the dead, and as HE testified, for those who know and believe him "And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man "according as his work" shall be.

As Paul also teaches.

Rom. 2: 9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

And when will this day come?

Mark 13: 31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. 32 But of that day and that hour "knoweth no man", no, not the angels which are in heaven, "neither the Son", but the Father. 33Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.

And because I believe in this Jesus, and His Father who sent Him, you say I "drag down Jesus" and I "Don't Love Jesus". If you had conscience, you would be ashamed of yourself.




Neither did Lazarus who was in the grave for 4 days, not 3. Perhaps it is you who should study more.

I have. I'm way ahead of you. Lazarus was healed. He already smelled.

Did God the Father heal Jesus Christ in the Resurrection?

@civic @sethproton?

You've found a good partner here Seth.

 

[praise_yeshua]

My hope is that you might check yourself, instead of always judging and labeling others as beneath you.

I'm dragging you down to my level. All men are at the same level. You're the one that thinks you're better now that Jesus has made you "just like Him".....

Feast of Atonement was 2 days ago. In this Statute of God His Atonement is revealed to men who Seek His Kingdom and HIS Righteousness, as the Jesus "of the Bible" instructs. You preach to others that I don't Love Jesus. You preach to others that Jesus didn't sin, because HE was God. Now you want to preach to me that you know the Atonement of God and I don't. Surely even you must understand how foolish I would be to turn away from God's Word and listen to yours.



Immortal God cannot die, but His Son, the man Jesus did.

Let me spell it out for you.

A mere man names Jesus couldn't offer up an acceptable sacrifice for sin. If they could, then Abraham would have died for man's sin. How about any "faithful man"......

You're a novice. You do not understand the teaching of the Hypostatic Union.

 

[praise_yeshua]

TRUTH , only the LORD Jesus Christ was able to fulfill the First Commandment in PERFECT 24/7 every breath and every step and every word n deed.

Thru the LORD Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit we are now capable of keeping His commandments.
Even though it is a BATTLE of the flesh to resist the SPIIRT.

The FATHER knows we are not capable to be 24/7 PEREFCT as the LORD but that in and thru HIM we are COMPLETE.

It is for the fulfillment of this COMPLETENESS that God sent His Son = Matthew 5:48
"Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect."

Be
Ἔσεσθε (Esesthe)
Verb - Future Indicative Middle - 2nd Person Plural
Strong's Greek 1510: I am, exist. The first person singular present indicative; a prolonged form of a primary and defective verb; I exist.

perfect,
τέλειοι (teleioi)
Adjective - Nominative Masculine Plural
Strong's Greek 5046: From telos; complete; neuter completeness.

therefore,
οὖν (oun)
Conjunction
Strong's Greek 3767: Therefore, then. Apparently a primary word; certainly, or accordingly.

as
ὡς (hōs)
Adverb
Strong's Greek 5613: Probably adverb of comparative from hos; which how, i.e. In that manner.

your
ὑμῶν (hymōn)
Personal / Possessive Pronoun - Genitive 2nd Person Plural
Strong's Greek 4771: You. The person pronoun of the second person singular; thou.

Heavenly
οὐράνιος (ouranios)
Adjective - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's Greek 3770: In heaven, belonging to heaven, heavenly, from heaven. From ouranos; celestial, i.e. Belonging to or coming from the sky.

Father
Πατὴρ (Patēr)
Noun - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's Greek 3962: Father, (Heavenly) Father, ancestor, elder, senior. Apparently a primary word; a 'father'.

is
ἐστιν (estin)
Verb - Present Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's Greek 1510: I am, exist. The first person singular present indicative; a prolonged form of a primary and defective verb; I exist.

perfect.
τέλειός (teleios)
Adjective - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's Greek 5046: From telos; complete; neuter completeness.

Even though we have the Spirit of God, it doesn't change the weakness of the flesh.

Like I've said before. Everyone talks tough until they physically can't please God anymore.

What is going to happened when a saint of God gradually withers away to nothingness. Will they be able to please God?

People ignore the obvious.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Words. Real life acts include SPEAKING.

If by "speaking" you mean giving advice, consolation, wisdom... I agree with you.
But "demons" could also speak, and speak very loudly, saying to Jesus "You are the Son of God!" To what avail?

In fact, words are the most important aspect of our existence. You keep denying.

I recognize the importance of words and doctrines.
Words and doctrines are important , inasmuch as they drive action.

For example:
Nazis believed that Jews were the big problem of humanity and an inferior class of being. That doctrine led them to perform or allow atrocities.
Some Gnostics believed that once you had got the "gnosis", you could not sin anymore. That doctrine led them to participate in all kind of lustful lives.
Some other Gnostics, on the contrary, believed that since matter is sinful, you should abandon your family, job and community and live as far as possible of the evil world.
Judaizers believed that converted Greeks must comply with the Law of Moses, and that led them to despise their Greek brothers and create divisions.

So, doctrines matter... but only inasmuch as they lead us to act in one way or the other.
We could go through the passages in the New Testament where Paul or Peter faced false teachers. They spent 5% or less of their ink refuting their arguments with other arguments, but 95% their ink presenting their bad behavior. What does that tell us about the relevance of heresies?

Heresies do not bring damnation because they are cognitive errors, but because they lead us to do bad things.
The Gospel does not bring salvation because it is a cognitive truth, but because it leads us to repent and do good things.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Luke 13: 3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Rom. 2: 5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;6 Who will render to every man "according to his deeds":

7 To them who "by patient continuance in well doing" seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, "but obey unrighteousness", indignation and wrath,

I know what you preach. And I know What the Scriptures actually say. I invite you to deny yourself and follow the Jesus "of the Bible. You will be called names and labeled if you do. But as it is written:

You're not making an argument. You're just quoting others as if you're saying what they say. You're not.

Here we go again. What did I say that drags Jesus down to a sinful level? You Protestants are quick with the labels and accusations and judgments of others, but short on evidence to support your slander. Truly, there is nothing new under the sun.

Jesus always pleased the Father. You don't always please the Father. Thusly, you're dragging Jesus down to your sinful level. Easy equation. You're pretending that you always please the Father.

Christ is the only One that has always pleased the Father. No one else has ever done this.

Get it?

You think you can just "wipe away" your own actions by repenting. I grew up with those who believed this way while they were openly sinning. I was raised a freewill Baptist by my mother. She use to say that these "Baptist" would get "saved" every time they sinned so they could "wipe away" their sins once more......

You chronically sin. Every man does this. Every man. You included. Thusly, you're not Christ then or NOW.

 

[DavidTree]

Even though we have the Spirit of God, it doesn't change the weakness of the flesh.

Like I've said before. Everyone talks tough until they physically can't please God anymore.

What is going to happened when a saint of God gradually withers away to nothingness. Will they be able to please God?

People ignore the obvious.

Well, just as i said in my Post #126 = i AGREE with you on our inefficiency to Please the FATHER thru religion, knowledge and/or good deeds.

But do not fret my Brother = 2 Corinthians 3:5
Not that we are sufficient from ourselves to reckon anything as of ourselves, but our sufficiency is of God,

Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that HE who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

Please do not forget this:
At that time Jesus answered and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and have revealed them to babes. Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight.
All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father.
Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.
Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you Rest.
Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

SHALOM

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Again. You see Jesus Christ is merely a messenger.

You false believe that you can be just like Jesus Christ. You can't. He is WAY ahead of you. He is Eternally God. He is altogether lovely. He has always pleased the Father.

I don't believe I can be just like Claudia Sheinbaum (new president of Mexico)... how could I aspire then to be like Jesus?

Yet, this is what we all are called to do: Whoever says he remains in Him ought to walk as He walked. (1 John 2:6)

 

[praise_yeshua]

If by "speaking" you mean giving advice, consolation, wisdom... I agree with you.
But "demons" could also speak, and speak very loudly, saying to Jesus "You are the Son of God!" To what avail?

No avail to them. They have no sacrifice to claim. Human beings.... Well. Jesus didn't take upon Himself the nature and bodily form of angels.

What manner of love God has BESTOWED UPON US.

"James" missed this too. So go ahead. Compare humans to Satan again. That is what Satan wants. For human beings to believe they have no hope.

By speaking, you can reveal the words of God or the words of Satan. Whether we want to or not, this is how choices are presented in this life. The voices of others.

I recognize the importance of words and doctrines.
Words and doctrines are important , inasmuch as they drive action.

For example:
Nazis believed that Jews were the big problem of humanity and an inferior class of being. That doctrine led them to perform or allow atrocities.
Some Gnostics believed that once you had got the "gnosis", you could not sin anymore. That led them to participate in all kind of lustful lives.
Some other Gnostics, on the contrary, believed that since matter is sinful, you should abandon your family, job and community and live as far as possible of the evil world.
Judaizers believed that converted Greeks must comply with the Law of Moses, and that led them to despise their Greek brothers and create divisions.

So, doctrines matter... but only inasmuch as they lead us to act in one way or the other.
We could go through the passages in the New Testament where Paul or Peter faced false teachers. They spent almost no ink, no time, in refuting their arguments, but almost 100% of their ink and time presenting their bad behavior. What does that tell us about the relevance of heresies?

Heresies are bad not because they are cognitive errors, but because they lead us to do bad things.
The Gospel is good not because it is a cognitive truth, but because it leads us to do good things.

I presented this earlier and you ignored it. I will do it one more time. Jesus said "words" can be good things....

Mat 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
Mat 12:35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
Mat 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
Mat 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

You insist your actions "speak louder than words". However, that is not true.

What we believe comes out of us in our words. It is an action of our hearts to express itself. They are an indication of where our hearts are.

This is ALWAYS TRUE.

However, actions such as works, are not always an indication of our conditions. Like yourself. Your own personal sin shows that you're not of God. The same is true of myself in our "works".

You look like a Satanic sinner. I look like a Satanic sinner. However......

LOOKS ARE DECIEVING.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Even though we have the Spirit of God, it doesn't change the weakness of the flesh.

Like I've said before. Everyone talks tough until they physically can't please God anymore.

We please God when we are humble, recognize our smallness in the face of his greatness, and live as He asks us to live.
But do not forget to do good and to share. For with such sacrifices God is well pleased. (Hebrews 13:16)

So yes, there is a way to please God, and the Bible is full of examples of God being pleased with individuals.
God can be pleased even if the individual has not heard of Jesus, if that person does things out of love and modesty. That's the case of Cornelius.

What is going to happened when a saint of God gradually withers away to nothingness. Will they be able to please God?

A saint of God will not wither way as God sustains him.
This is the whole point of having eternal life.
That life does not come from my own merits, but from God through his Christ.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

No avail to them. They have no sacrifice to claim. Human beings.... Well.

The reason why "demons" do not benefit from confessing the truth has nothing to do with "not having a sacrifice to claim".
James links the irrelevance of demon's doctrinal beliefs with their inability to translate those true beliefs into good works. That's precisely the reason James calls our attention to the situation of "demons".

What does it profit, my brothers, if a man says he has faith but has no works? Can faith save him? If a brother or sister is naked and lacking daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” and yet you give them nothing that the body needs, what does it profit? 17 So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead.​

But a man may say, “You have faith and I have works.”​

Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that there is one God; you do well. The demons also believe and tremble.​

But do you want to be shown, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?​

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Jesus said "words" can be good things....

Mat 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
Mat 12:35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
Mat 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
Mat 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

Neither Jesus in these verses nor James in his epistles are talking about the use of words or "the tongue" to debate Theology.

I may be wrong, but it seems to me that for years you have been indoctrinated in the supreme value of "being right" in doctrine, as if your salvation depended on it. That's why you see so many verses in the Bible under the lens of "orthodoxy": The sheep on the right are those who accept beliefs A, B and C. The goats on the left are those who reject them.

That's not the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is about repentance, being born again, loving, living the life of a citizen of the Kingdom of God.

Jesus and James, when they refer to words and the tongue, are talking about kindness, about prudence, about not being judgmenta with our words. If Trinitarians and Unitarians curse each other they are speaking idle words. If they treat each other with kindness and bless each other, they are doing good with their words.

“You have heard that it was said by the ancients, ‘You shall not murder,’ and ‘Whoever murders shall be in danger of the judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca,’ shall be in danger of the Sanhedrin. But whoever says, ‘You fool,’ shall be in danger of hell fire.

But no man can tame the tongue. It is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
With it we bless the Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who are made in the image of God. Out of the same mouth proceed blessing and cursing. My brothers, these things ought not to be so.

You insist your actions "speak louder than words". However, that is not true.

It is true because that's Jesus teaching. There is plenty of biblical evidence. I can bring it if needed.

However, actions such as works, are not always an indication of our conditions.

I agree. Yet, it is the best method possible in our hands to detect who is a true believer. Jesus Himself gave us that method.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

What about this which the LORD says to you: John14:19-21

“A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also.
At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.
He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me.
And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”

What did the LORD emphatically state here???

Thanks for bringing such an important passage.
You have summarized very well the whole thread.

In John 14:19-21 Jesus is saying that the proof that somebody loves Jesus is to keep his commandments. He who does this, will prove he loves Jesus, and the Father will love that person.

You, DavidTree, keep Jesus commandments, because you love your brothers, including your Unitarian, Jewish, Muslim, atheist, gay brothers, as He loved us. Since you keep Jesus commandments, you are proving that you love Jesus, and therefore God, The Father of Jesus, loves you.

So, loving Jesus is not about believing or not in his deity. It is about keeping Jesus commandment.

 

[mikesw]

Thanks for bringing such an important passage.
You have summarized very well the whole thread.

In John 14:19-21 Jesus is saying that the proof that somebody loves Jesus is to keep his commandments. He who does this, will prove he loves Jesus, and the Father will love that person.

You, DavidTree, keep Jesus commandments, because you love your brothers, including your Unitarian, Jewish, Muslim, atheist, gay brothers, as He loved us. Since you keep Jesus commandments, you are proving that you love Jesus, and therefore God, The Father of Jesus, loves you.

So, loving Jesus is not about believing or not in his deity. It is about keeping Jesus commandment.

uh. The only one defined as our brothers are those who follow Christ. The other problem with this false doctrine given here is that the people hearing this and following the commandments of the divine Messiah of the Godhead then receive the Spirit of Truth. So this passage is not just something that applies to anyone and everyone. How easily some people corrupt the message.