The Issue of Limited Atonement

[TomL]

ditto

Yes. This is an important point Calvinism has to overlook.

Galatians 3:14 (LEB) — 14 in order that the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

If Gal 3:14 is true, Calvinism is not.

 

[brightfame52]

Yes. This is an important point Calvinism has to overlook.

Galatians 3:14 (LEB) — 14 in order that the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

If Gal 3:14 is true, Calvinism is not.

Gal 3:14 confirms limited redemption, connected to Vs 13, Jesus death released everyone He died for from the curse of the Law, and to them the blessing of Abraham, the Spirit comes to them [the redeemed] through Jesus Christ, they receive the promised Spirit through Christ/Faith. Faith here has the definite article, so its properly through the Faith. Faith is a noun, a person, place or thing. Its the person, Christ. And of course the Spirit is the source of working Faith in the redeemed.

 

[Doug Brents]

False, just as Isaac, he was Abrahams Heir b4 he was born a sinner. Gen 15:4

And, behold, the word of the Lord came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.

God told Abraham that he would be his heir. But that does not mean anything to us today. We become coheirs with Christ, part of Abraham's seed, through faith in Christ Jesus. Without faith there is no salvation.

I am done beating you over the head with this. If @civic is correct that you don't believe faith plays any roll in salvation, then you are more lost and confused than I previously thought. Go study the Word more thoroughly and completely, and learn the truth within.

 

[brightfame52]

God told Abraham that he would be his heir. But that does not mean anything to us today. We become coheirs with Christ, part of Abraham's seed, through faith in Christ Jesus. Without faith there is no salvation.

I am done beating you over the head with this. If @civic is correct that you don't believe faith plays any roll in salvation, then you are more lost and confused than I previously thought. Go study the Word more thoroughly and completely, and learn the truth within.

Yeah he would be his heir, that makes it a sure promise of God.

 

[brightfame52]

@Doug Brents

But that does not mean anything to us today.

Sure it does, if you a believer in Christ it does, that's why Paul wrote to believers Gal 4:28

28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

They are brethren in Christ as a result of being a child of promise as was Isaac

 

[TomL]

Gal 3:14 confirms limited redemption, connected to Vs 13, Jesus death released everyone He died for from the curse of the Law, and to them the blessing of Abraham, the Spirit comes to them [the redeemed] through Jesus Christ, they receive the promised Spirit through Christ/Faith. Faith here has the definite article, so its properly through the Faith. Faith is a noun, a person, place or thing. Its the person, Christ. And of course the Spirit is the source of working Faith in the redeemed.

Calvinism holds men receive the Spirit before faith.

It is a biblical fact, however, that you must have faith to receive the Spirit.

Galatians 3:14 (LEB) — 14 in order that the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

 

[TomL]

@Doug Brents



Sure it does, if you a believer in Christ it does, that's why Paul wrote to believers Gal 4:28

28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

They are brethren in Christ as a result of being a child of promise as was Isaac

Brethren in Christ are those who believe.

Romans 4:16–17 (LEB) — 16 Because of this, it is by faith, in order that it may be according to grace, so that the promise may be secure to all the descendants, not only to those of the law, but also to those of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all 17 (just as it is written, “I have made you the father of many nations”) before God, in whom he believed, the one who makes the dead alive and who calls the things that are not as though they are,

Colossians 1:2–6 (KJV 1900) — 2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 3 We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you, 4 Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints, 5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel; 6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:

 

[brightfame52]

Calvinism holds men receive the Spirit before faith.

It is a biblical fact, however, that you must have faith to receive the Spirit.

Galatians 3:14 (LEB) — 14 in order that the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Gal 3:14 confirms limited atonement, those whom Christ died for are redeemed from the curse of the law, and by virtue of that, the Spirit is sent into their heart. Same Truth in Gal 4:4-6

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

 

[brightfame52]

Brethren in Christ are those who believe.

Romans 4:16–17 (LEB) — 16 Because of this, it is by faith, in order that it may be according to grace, so that the promise may be secure to all the descendants, not only to those of the law, but also to those of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all 17 (just as it is written, “I have made you the father of many nations”) before God, in whom he believed, the one who makes the dead alive and who calls the things that are not as though they are,

Colossians 1:2–6 (KJV 1900) — 2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 3 We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you, 4 Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints, 5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel; 6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:

One becomes a believer, a spiritual child of abraham, the Father of the Faithful, by the power and promise of God as Isaac was.

 

[TomL]

One becomes a believer, a spiritual child of abraham, the Father of the Faithful, by the power and promise of God as Isaac was.

Once one believes, he becomes a brother in Christ.

And faith is the grounds upon which one receives fruit

Romans 4:16–17 (LEB) — 16 Because of this, it is by faith, in order that it may be according to grace, so that the promise may be secure to all the descendants, not only to those of the law, but also to those of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all 17 (just as it is written, “I have made you the father of many nations”) before God, in whom he believed, the one who makes the dead alive and who calls the things that are not as though they are,

Colossians 1:2–6 (KJV 1900) — 2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 3 We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you, 4 Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints, 5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel; 6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:
It is a believer who is the Spiritual child of Abraham

Galatians 3:7 (LEB) — 7 then understand that the ones who have faith, these are sons of Abraham.

 

[TomL]

Gal 3:14 confirms limited atonement, those whom Christ died for are redeemed from the curse of the law, and by virtue of that, the Spirit is sent into their heart. Same Truth in Gal 4:4-6

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

Um Limited atonement holds Christ died only for some.

Yet scripture is clear Christ died for more than some

Christ died for all.

Hebrews 2:9 (LEB) — 9 but we see Jesus, for a short time made lower than the angels, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that apart from God he might taste death on behalf of everyone.

2 Corinthians 5:14–15 (KJV 1900) — 14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.



A ransom for all, as God desires the salvation of all people

1 Timothy 2:3–6 (LEB) — 3 This is good and acceptable before God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and human beings, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, the testimony at the proper time,

He was therefore making propitiation for all the world's sin

1 John 2:2 (LEB) — 2 and he is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Christ is therefore a savior for all the world

1 John 4:14 (LEB) — 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

Titus 2:11 (LEB) — 11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people,

1 Timothy 4:10 (LEB) — 10 For to this end we labor and suffer reproach, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of believers.

Those who believe are saved, and those who do not are not saved

Mark 16:16 (LEB) — 16 The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who refuses to believe will be condemned.

 

[brightfame52]

Once one believes, he becomes a brother in Christ.

And faith is the grounds upon which one receives fruit

Romans 4:16–17 (LEB) — 16 Because of this, it is by faith, in order that it may be according to grace, so that the promise may be secure to all the descendants, not only to those of the law, but also to those of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all 17 (just as it is written, “I have made you the father of many nations”) before God, in whom he believed, the one who makes the dead alive and who calls the things that are not as though they are,

Colossians 1:2–6 (KJV 1900) — 2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 3 We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you, 4 Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints, 5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel; 6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:
It is a believer who is the Spiritual child of Abraham

Galatians 3:7 (LEB) — 7 then understand that the ones who have faith, these are sons of Abraham.

God promised Abraham a Spiritual Heir in Isaac b4 he was born. Now was it possible for Isaac not to become a believer ?

 

[brightfame52]

Um Limited atonement holds Christ died only for some.

Yet scripture is clear Christ died for more than some



Those who believe are saved, and those who do not are not saved

Mark 16:16 (LEB) — 16 The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who refuses to believe will be condemned.

The redeemed by Christs death will be given the Holy Spirit in their heart to produce Faith in Christ.

 

[TomL]

The redeemed by Christs death will be given the Holy Spirit in their heart to produce Faith in Christ.

Sorry, scripture refutes that theology.

Galatians 3:14 (LEB) — 14 in order that the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

John 7:38–39 (LEB) — 38 the one who believes in me. Just as the scripture said, ‘Out of his belly will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 (Now he said this concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were about to receive. For the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus had not yet been glorified.)

Ephesians 1:13–14 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the down payment of our inheritance, until the redemption of the possession, to the praise of his glory.

Galatians 3:2–5 (LEB) — 2 I want only to learn this from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now trying to be made complete by the flesh? 4 Have you suffered so many things for nothing—if indeed also it was for nothing? 5 Therefore does the one who gives you the Spirit and who works miracles among you do so by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?


Rather, faith must exist before the Spirit indwells.


Multiple scriptures contradict the theology you espouse; therefore, honor the word of God and repent of the theology you have been espousing.

 

[TomL]

God promised Abraham a Spiritual Heir in Isaac b4 he was born. Now was it possible for Isaac not to become a believer ?

Address the point raised which was not about Isaac

Once one believes, he becomes a brother in Christ.

And faith is the grounds upon which one receives fruit

Romans 4:16–17 (LEB) — 16 Because of this, it is by faith, in order that it may be according to grace, so that the promise may be secure to all the descendants, not only to those of the law, but also to those of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all 17 (just as it is written, “I have made you the father of many nations”) before God, in whom he believed, the one who makes the dead alive and who calls the things that are not as though they are,

Colossians 1:2–6 (KJV 1900) — 2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 3 We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you, 4 Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints, 5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel; 6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:
It is a believer who is the Spiritual child of Abraham

Galatians 3:7 (LEB) — 7 then understand that the ones who have faith, these are sons of Abraham.

 

[brightfame52]

Sorry, scripture refutes that theology.

Galatians 3:14 (LEB) — 14 in order that the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

John 7:38–39 (LEB) — 38 the one who believes in me. Just as the scripture said, ‘Out of his belly will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 (Now he said this concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were about to receive. For the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus had not yet been glorified.)

Ephesians 1:13–14 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the down payment of our inheritance, until the redemption of the possession, to the praise of his glory.

Galatians 3:2–5 (LEB) — 2 I want only to learn this from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now trying to be made complete by the flesh? 4 Have you suffered so many things for nothing—if indeed also it was for nothing? 5 Therefore does the one who gives you the Spirit and who works miracles among you do so by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?


Rather, faith must exist before the Spirit indwells.


Multiple scriptures contradict the theology you espouse; therefore, honor the word of God and repent of the theology you have been espousing.

The redeemed by Christs death will be given the Holy Spirit in their heart to produce Faith in Christ. See Gal 3:13-14;4;4-6

This proves to me Limited atonement. Those Christ died for are redeemed from the curse of the Law, now is that true of all mankind ? No Listen to Jesus say to the cursed goats whom He didnt die for Matt 25:41

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

 

[brightfame52]

Address the point raised which was not about Isaac

Once one believes, he becomes a brother in Christ.

And faith is the grounds upon which one receives fruit

Romans 4:16–17 (LEB) — 16 Because of this, it is by faith, in order that it may be according to grace, so that the promise may be secure to all the descendants, not only to those of the law, but also to those of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all 17 (just as it is written, “I have made you the father of many nations”) before God, in whom he believed, the one who makes the dead alive and who calls the things that are not as though they are,

Colossians 1:2–6 (KJV 1900) — 2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 3 We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you, 4 Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints, 5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel; 6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:
It is a believer who is the Spiritual child of Abraham

Galatians 3:7 (LEB) — 7 then understand that the ones who have faith, these are sons of Abraham.

God promised Abraham a Spiritual Heir in Isaac b4 he was born. Now was it possible for Isaac not to become a believer ? So all believers in Christ are children o promise as was Isaac Gal 4:28

28 Now we, brethren[believers in Christ], as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

We are also Israel the children of the promise Rom 9:6-8

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Salvation has alway been limited to a seed

 

[TomL]

God promised Abraham a Spiritual Heir in Isaac b4 he was born. Now was it possible for Isaac not to become a believer ? So all believers in Christ are children o promise as was Isaac Gal 4:28

28 Now we, brethren[believers in Christ], as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

We are also Israel the children of the promise Rom 9:6-8

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Salvation has alway been limited to a seed

You are avoiding the point raised.

Address the point raised which was not about Isaac

Once one believes, he becomes a brother in Christ.

And faith is the grounds upon which one receives fruit

Romans 4:16–17 (LEB) — 16 Because of this, it is by faith, in order that it may be according to grace, so that the promise may be secure to all the descendants, not only to those of the law, but also to those of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all 17 (just as it is written, “I have made you the father of many nations”) before God, in whom he believed, the one who makes the dead alive and who calls the things that are not as though they are,

Colossians 1:2–6 (KJV 1900) — 2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 3 We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you, 4 Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints, 5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel; 6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:
It is a believer who is the Spiritual child of Abraham

Galatians 3:7 (LEB) — 7 then understand that the ones who have faith, these are sons of Abraham.

Do you not know a non Calvinist view of corporate election.


Election is primarily corporate and only secondarily particular. The thesis that the election is corporate, as Paul understood it and viewed it in the Ephesian doxology, is supported by the whole context of his epistle: ... gather together in one all things in Christ ... the redemption of the purchased possession ... his inheritance in the saints ... the church, which is his body ... who has made both one ... to make in himself of twain one new man ... that he might reconcile both unto God in one body ... the household of God ... all the building fitly framed together er ... an holy temple ... builded together for an habitation of God ... of the same body ... the mystery from the beginning of the world [now disclosed in] the church [as the fulfillment of] the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord ... of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named ... glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages ... one body ... the body of Christ ... the whole body fitly joined together ... increase of the body ... we are members one of another ... Christ is the head of the church ... the saviour of the body ... Christ loved the church and gave himself for it, that he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, that he might present it to himself a glorious church ... they two shall be one flesh [but] I speak concerning Christ and the church. The concept of the corporate body of the elect is intrinsic in all the above excerpts. Consider 2:12, "you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise.... " The concept of the corporate election of Israel, a concept derived from many Scriptures, is clearly apparent. The concept of corporate election is equally apparent in Paul's assertion that Jews and Gentiles together are "reconciled to God in one body on the cross" (v. 16). The New Testament comprehends believers, not in isolation, but as members of the body of the elect. The election of individual men cannot be isolated from "the church, which is his body" any more than it can be isolated from Christ Himself.



Robert Shank. Elect in the Son (Kindle Locations 356-360). Kindle Edition.

 

[TomL]

The redeemed by Christs death will be given the Holy Spirit in their heart to produce Faith in Christ. See Gal 3:13-14;4;4-6

This proves to me Limited atonement. Those Christ died for are redeemed from the curse of the Law, now is that true of all mankind ? No Listen to Jesus say to the cursed goats whom He didnt die for Matt 25:41

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Sorry, but you ignored multiple verses of scripture showing faith is required before one receives the Spirit.

Sorry, scripture refutes that theology.

Galatians 3:14 (LEB) — 14 in order that the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Hello Gal 3:14 refutes your Spirit before faith doctrine

John 7:38–39 (LEB) — 38 the one who believes in me. Just as the scripture said, ‘Out of his belly will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 (Now he said this concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were about to receive. For the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus had not yet been glorified.)

Ephesians 1:13–14 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the down payment of our inheritance, until the redemption of the possession, to the praise of his glory.

Galatians 3:2–5 (LEB) — 2 I want only to learn this from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now trying to be made complete by the flesh? 4 Have you suffered so many things for nothing—if indeed also it was for nothing? 5 Therefore does the one who gives you the Spirit and who works miracles among you do so by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?


Rather, faith must exist before the Spirit indwells.


Multiple scriptures contradict the theology you espouse; therefore, honor the word of God and repent of the theology you have been espousing.

Seriously, you need to stop opposing the word of God.

 

[brightfame52]

Limited atonement is proved by the fact, the Salvation Christ accomplished and mediates is limited to a specific chosen people Heb 8:6-10

6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Now Christs Death was according to that Covenant or that people Matt 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.