The Issue of Limited Atonement

[jeremiah1five]

Wake up

Gentiles are clearly mentioned.

Ephesians 2:11–22 (LEB) — 11 Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, the so-called uncircumcision by the so-called circumcision in the flesh, made by hands, 12 that you were at that time apart from Christ, alienated from the citizenship of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, not having hope, and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you, the ones who once were far away, have become near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who made both one and broke down the dividing wall of the partition, the enmity, in his flesh, 15 invalidating the law of commandments in ordinances, in order that he might create the two in himself into one new man, thus making peace, 16 and might reconcile both in one body to God through the cross, killing the enmity in himself. 17 And coming, he proclaimed the good news of peace to you who were far away and peace to the ones who were near, 18 because through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 Consequently, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but you are fellow citizens of the saints and members of the household of God, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole building, joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are built up together into a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.

Your bias severely leads you into much denial of God's word.

You need to weigh concern for trusting all of God's word against your bias.

Still wasting my time and effort. Tunnel vision of the New Testament.

 

[TomL]

Pay attention to what Im posting.

I do not pay attention to error

Address the fact

According to Calvinism, men receive the Spirit that they may believe.


Calvinists do not believe in a separate baptism of the Holy Spirit. They believe that all Christians are born-again and Spirit-illed at the moment of regeneration, which is when they receive the Holy Spirit. This belief is supported by Calvin's teachings and the Westminster Confession, which emphasizes the Holy Spirit's role in the Christian faith. Calvin's understanding of the Holy Spirit is rooted in the belief that all believers are united to Christ, given the spirit of Adoption and Prayer, and perform all those gracious offices by which they are sanctified and sealed unto the day of redemption.


www.bucer.ch+2
https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=b32c...C90eF9vcmcvbGVlY2Fsdmlub25zcGlyaXQucGRm&ntb=1

Calvinists place regeneration before faith.

This is contrary to scripture.


Galatians 3:14 (LEB) — 14 in order that the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

 

[TomL]

Still wasting my time and effort. Tunnel vision of the New Testament.

Your time and effort is to deny scripture because of your unjustified bias.

You failed to address the refutation of what you had posted.

Wake up

Gentiles are clearly mentioned.

Ephesians 2:11–22 (LEB) — 11 Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, the so-called uncircumcision by the so-called circumcision in the flesh, made by hands, 12 that you were at that time apart from Christ, alienated from the citizenship of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, not having hope, and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you, the ones who once were far away, have become near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who made both one and broke down the dividing wall of the partition, the enmity, in his flesh, 15 invalidating the law of commandments in ordinances, in order that he might create the two in himself into one new man, thus making peace, 16 and might reconcile both in one body to God through the cross, killing the enmity in himself. 17 And coming, he proclaimed the good news of peace to you who were far away and peace to the ones who were near, 18 because through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 Consequently, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but you are fellow citizens of the saints and members of the household of God, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole building, joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are built up together into a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.

Your bias severely leads you into much denial of God's word.

You need to weigh concern for trusting all of God's word against your bias.

 

[TomL]

You're a waste of my time.

Why do you fail to address what is clearly contrary to your doctrine

Three arguments were placed contrary to it.

Sorry, but when you examine scripture, the word gentiles plainly appears.

Ephesians 2:11–22 (LEB) — 11 Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, the so-called uncircumcision by the so-called circumcision in the flesh, made by hands, 12 that you were at that time apart from Christ, alienated from the citizenship of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, not having hope, and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you, the ones who once were far away, have become near by the blood of Christ.

and

For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27 for as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are descendants of Abraham, heirs according to the promise.
Greek
a. Gentile, pagan, heathen (2 Macc 4:36; 11:2; 3 Macc 3:8; 4 Macc 18:20; Sib. Or. 5, 265; Phot., Bibl. 62, 8:219 Jac. τὴν θρησκείαν Ἕλλην) J 7:35; Ac 9:29 v.l. (for Ἑλληνιστάς); 11:20 (v.l. Ἑλληνιστάς); 16:1, 3; 21:28; 1 Cor 1:22; Gal 2:3; PK 2 p. 14, 1; 7; p. 15, 7; Dg 1; 3:3; 5:17. The expr. Ἰουδαῖοι καὶ Ἕλληνες, which clearly indicates Israel’s advantages fr. the Jewish standpoint, embraces the whole human race Ac 14:1; 18:4; 19:10, 17; 20:21; Ro 1:16; 2:9f; 3:9; 10:12; 1 Cor 1:24; 10:32; 12:13; Gal 3:28; Col 3:11

William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 252.

Further the term Greek is differentiated from "Jew," as is seen in each phrase

Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male and female,

One cannot be a slave and free, a male and a female, therefore a Jew and a Greek

Thus, you appear as someone unwilling to believe based upon any evidence.

 

[Doug Brents]

Again, God promised to give Abraham spiritual children of faith. Only God can make a spiritual person which is a believer. So anybody who is a believer, it was guaranteed they would be by God, even b4 they are born sinners.

NO ONE is a believer before they are a sinner.

Like Isaac, he was guaranteed to be Abrahams Spiritual heir, yet he was still born an ungodly sinners first,

Nope, he was born "safe", in right relationship with God. And then he sinned, after he learned the difference between good and evil, when he chose evil (Isa 7:16).

so he had to be born again for Gods promise to be realized. And as already mentioned, God made Abraham a believer and faithful, just like He makes Abrahams spiritual seed. Duh

Exactly, we have to be born again, through faith in God, in order to be part of the seed of Abraham.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I do not pay attention to error

one comment is enough.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Your time and effort is to deny scripture because of your unjustified bias.

You failed to address the refutation of what you had posted.

One comment is enough.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Why do you fail to address what is clearly contrary to your doctrine

Three arguments were placed contrary to it.



Thus, you appear as someone unwilling to believe based upon any evidence.

You and Jim are the same. You both are infected by false Constantinian Gentile theology that interprets the HEBREW Scripture with a Gentile, western world American mindset and NOT as a Hebrew with a Hebrew mindset.

What a shame.
What a damn shame.

 

[brightfame52]

NO ONE is a believer before they are a sinner.

Nope, he was born "safe", in right relationship with God. And then he sinned, after he learned the difference between good and evil, when he chose evil (Isa 7:16).

Exactly, we have to be born again, through faith in God, in order to be part of the seed of Abraham.

Who said someone is a believer before they are a sinner? One is a heir of salvation b4 they are a born a sinner, Like Isaac. Like these Heb 1:14

14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to do service for the sake of them that shall inherit salvation? asv

 

[Doug Brents]

Who said someone is a believer before they are a sinner? One is a heir of salvation b4 they are a born a sinner, Like Isaac. Like these Heb 1:14

One CANNOT be an heir of salvation (saved) before they become a sinner. That is an oxymoron.
We all are born sinless.
Most* at some point learn the difference between right and wrong, and all of these choose wrong.
Many of these hear the Gospel, and some choose to obey it, and through faith are saved by God.

*I believe that there are some very few are born incapable of learning the difference between right an wrong.

 

[brightfame52]

One CANNOT be an heir of salvation (saved) before they become a sinner. That is an oxymoron.
We all are born sinless.
Most* at some point learn the difference between right and wrong, and all of these choose wrong.
Many of these hear the Gospel, and some choose to obey it, and through faith are saved by God.

*I believe that there are some very few are born incapable of learning the difference between right an wrong.

Yes an heir of salvation is a spiritual descendent of Abraham. Just like Isaac, he was a spiritual desendant of Abrham as well as a physical one. So he had to be born first physically which constituted him a sinner by nature, then he must be born again spiritually to be a spiritual descendant of Faith. The elect heirs will bare the image of the earthy ad then the heavenly by new birth 1 Cor 15 49

And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

When Jesus says one must be born again Jn 3 He means the Spiritual seed/heirs of Abraham must be born again to fulfill Gods promises.

So all sinners who are heirs shall be born again and given the Gift of Faith to believe and be manifested as Abrahams Spiritual seed as God promised Gal 3:7

7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

Only God is able to raise up children to Abraham Matt 3:8

9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

 

[Doug Brents]

Yes an heir of salvation is a spiritual descendent of Abraham. Just like Isaac, he was a spiritual desendant of Abrham as well as a physical one. So he had to be born first physically which constituted him a sinner by nature,

He had a nature as a sinner, the nature that would make him sin, but he was not born a sinner; no one is.

then he must be born again spiritually to be a spiritual descendant of Faith. The elect heirs will bare the image of the earthy ad then the heavenly by new birth 1 Cor 15 49

And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

When Jesus says one must be born again Jn 3 He means the Spiritual seed/heirs of Abraham must be born again to fulfill Gods promises.

So all sinners who are heirs shall be born again and given the Gift of Faith to believe and be manifested as Abrahams Spiritual seed as God promised Gal 3:7

7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

Only God is able to raise up children to Abraham Matt 3:8

9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

We become heirs of Abraham when we exhibit faith in God. That is when we become saved, and when we become "children unto Abraham". We are not born (naturally) as children of the promise to Abraham.

 

[civic]

Indeed He did, and those who express faith in God are those believers.

So why do you discount faith? It is faith that makes us the seed of Abraham.

You misread that verse. "Faithful" in this sentence, is an adjective telling us more about who Abraham was. It is not the object of the prepositional phrase (that would be Abraham). This verse is not saying that we are blessed with faith like Abraham. It is saying that we are blessed along with Abraham the faithful one.

Faith is meaningless in his theology and not necessary to be saved.

 

[TomL]

You and Jim are the same. You both are infected by false Constantinian Gentile theology that interprets the HEBREW Scripture with a Gentile, western world American mindset and NOT as a Hebrew with a Hebrew mindset.

What a shame.
What a damn shame.

You still fail to address the refutations of your theology

Why do you fail to address what is clearly contrary to your doctrine

Three arguments were placed contrary to it.

Sorry, but when you examine scripture, the word gentiles plainly appears.

Ephesians 2:11–22 (LEB) — 11 Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, the so-called uncircumcision by the so-called circumcision in the flesh, made by hands, 12 that you were at that time apart from Christ, alienated from the citizenship of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, not having hope, and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you, the ones who once were far away, have become near by the blood of Christ.

and

For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27 for as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are descendants of Abraham, heirs according to the promise.
Greek
a. Gentile, pagan, heathen (2 Macc 4:36; 11:2; 3 Macc 3:8; 4 Macc 18:20; Sib. Or. 5, 265; Phot., Bibl. 62, 8:219 Jac. τὴν θρησκείαν Ἕλλην) J 7:35; Ac 9:29 v.l. (for Ἑλληνιστάς); 11:20 (v.l. Ἑλληνιστάς); 16:1, 3; 21:28; 1 Cor 1:22; Gal 2:3; PK 2 p. 14, 1; 7; p. 15, 7; Dg 1; 3:3; 5:17. The expr. Ἰουδαῖοι καὶ Ἕλληνες, which clearly indicates Israel’s advantages fr. the Jewish standpoint, embraces the whole human race Ac 14:1; 18:4; 19:10, 17; 20:21; Ro 1:16; 2:9f; 3:9; 10:12; 1 Cor 1:24; 10:32; 12:13; Gal 3:28; Col 3:11

William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 252.

Further the term Greek is differentiated from "Jew," as is seen in each phrase

Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male and female,

One cannot be a slave and free, a male and a female, therefore a Jew and a Greek

Thus, you appear as someone unwilling to believe based upon any evidence.

 

[TomL]

One comment is enough.

You address nothing.

Wake up

Gentiles are clearly mentioned.

Ephesians 2:11–22 (LEB) — 11 Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, the so-called uncircumcision by the so-called circumcision in the flesh, made by hands, 12 that you were at that time apart from Christ, alienated from the citizenship of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, not having hope, and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you, the ones who once were far away, have become near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who made both one and broke down the dividing wall of the partition, the enmity, in his flesh, 15 invalidating the law of commandments in ordinances, in order that he might create the two in himself into one new man, thus making peace, 16 and might reconcile both in one body to God through the cross, killing the enmity in himself. 17 And coming, he proclaimed the good news of peace to you who were far away and peace to the ones who were near, 18 because through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 Consequently, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but you are fellow citizens of the saints and members of the household of God, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole building, joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are built up together into a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.

Your bias severely leads you into much denial of God's word.

You need to weigh concern for trusting all of God's word against your bias.

 

[TomL]

one comment is enough.

My post was not to you but to brightfame52

I do not pay attention to error

Address the fact

According to Calvinism, men receive the Spirit that they may believe.


Calvinists do not believe in a separate baptism of the Holy Spirit. They believe that all Christians are born-again and Spirit-illed at the moment of regeneration, which is when they receive the Holy Spirit. This belief is supported by Calvin's teachings and the Westminster Confession, which emphasizes the Holy Spirit's role in the Christian faith. Calvin's understanding of the Holy Spirit is rooted in the belief that all believers are united to Christ, given the spirit of Adoption and Prayer, and perform all those gracious offices by which they are sanctified and sealed unto the day of redemption.


www.bucer.ch+2
https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=b32c...C90eF9vcmcvbGVlY2Fsdmlub25zcGlyaXQucGRm&ntb=1

Calvinists place regeneration before faith.

This is contrary to scripture.


Galatians 3:14 (LEB) — 14 in order that the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

 

[TomL]

Yes an heir of salvation is a spiritual descendent of Abraham. Just like Isaac, he was a spiritual desendant of Abrham as well as a physical one. So he had to be born first physically which constituted him a sinner by nature, then he must be born again spiritually to be a spiritual descendant of Faith. The elect heirs will bare the image of the earthy ad then the heavenly by new birth 1 Cor 15 49

And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

When Jesus says one must be born again Jn 3 He means the Spiritual seed/heirs of Abraham must be born again to fulfill Gods promises.

So all sinners who are heirs shall be born again and given the Gift of Faith to believe and be manifested as Abrahams Spiritual seed as God promised Gal 3:7

7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

Only God is able to raise up children to Abraham Matt 3:8

9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

As noted previously, faith precedes the indwelling of the Spirit.

According to this article concerning Calvinism, men receive the Spirit that they may believe.


Calvinists do not believe in a separate baptism of the Holy Spirit. They believe that all Christians are born-again and Spirit-illed at the moment of regeneration, which is when they receive the Holy Spirit. This belief is supported by Calvin's teachings and the Westminster Confession, which emphasizes the Holy Spirit's role in the Christian faith. Calvin's understanding of the Holy Spirit is rooted in the belief that all believers are united to Christ, given the spirit of Adoption and Prayer, and perform all those gracious offices by which they are sanctified and sealed unto the day of redemption.

www.bucer.ch+2

Calvinists place regeneration before faith.

This is contrary to scripture.

For the promise of the Spirit is through faith

Galatians 3:14 (LEB) — 14 in order that the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

 

[civic]

As noted previously, faith precedes the indwelling of the Spirit.

According to this article concerning Calvinism, men receive the Spirit that they may believe.


Calvinists do not believe in a separate baptism of the Holy Spirit. They believe that all Christians are born-again and Spirit-illed at the moment of regeneration, which is when they receive the Holy Spirit. This belief is supported by Calvin's teachings and the Westminster Confession, which emphasizes the Holy Spirit's role in the Christian faith. Calvin's understanding of the Holy Spirit is rooted in the belief that all believers are united to Christ, given the spirit of Adoption and Prayer, and perform all those gracious offices by which they are sanctified and sealed unto the day of redemption.

www.bucer.ch+2

Calvinists place regeneration before faith.

This is contrary to scripture.
d
itto

Galatians 3:14 (LEB) — 14 in order that the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

ditto

 

[brightfame52]

@Doug Brents

We become heirs of Abraham when we exhibit faith in God.

False, just as Isaac, he was Abrahams Heir b4 he was born a sinner. Gen 15:4

And, behold, the word of the Lord came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.

 

[brightfame52]

As noted previously, faith precedes the indwelling of the Spirit.

According to this article concerning Calvinism, men receive the Spirit that they may believe.


Calvinists do not believe in a separate baptism of the Holy Spirit. They believe that all Christians are born-again and Spirit-illed at the moment of regeneration, which is when they receive the Holy Spirit. This belief is supported by Calvin's teachings and the Westminster Confession, which emphasizes the Holy Spirit's role in the Christian faith. Calvin's understanding of the Holy Spirit is rooted in the belief that all believers are united to Christ, given the spirit of Adoption and Prayer, and perform all those gracious offices by which they are sanctified and sealed unto the day of redemption.

www.bucer.ch+2

Calvinists place regeneration before faith.

This is contrary to scripture.

For the promise of the Spirit is through faith

Galatians 3:14 (LEB) — 14 in order that the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Being an heir precedes physical birth and newbirth with faith. Because one is an heir it ensures the new birth and the Gift of Faith