The Issue of Limited Atonement

[TomL]

I'm not going to reply to six comments. Your comments all contradict the Old Testament.

Sorry, you did nothing to show that.

T

Post in thread 'The Issue of Limited Atonement'

Aug 24, 2025

It may appear to some of our readers that the exposition we have given of John 3:16 in the chapter on "Difficulties and Objections" is a forced and unnatural one, inasmuch as our definition of the term "world" seems to be out of harmony with the meaning and scope of this word in other passages, where, to supply the world of believers (God's elect) as a definition of "world" would make no sense. Many have said to us, "Surely, 'world' means world, that is, you, me, and everybody." In reply we would say: We know from experience how difficult it is to set aside the "traditions of men" and...

• TomL

 

[TomL]

Are you the father of the kid across the street?

Abe is the father of HIS OWN SEED.

Duh.

You have ignored scripture again

T

Post in thread 'The Issue of Limited Atonement'

Aug 24, 2025

Where in the Old Testament is there a covenant between God and Gentiles?

And what is this Gentile's name?

You were already told Abraham

He is the father of all

All being his heirs

Gen 17:5Your name shall no longer be called Abram, but your name shall be Abraham, for I will make you the father of a multitude of nations.

Gen 18:18Abraham will surely become a great and strong nation, and all the nations of the earth will be blessed on account of him.

Romans 4:9–12 (LEB) — 9 Therefore, is this blessing for those who are...

• TomL

• 

both Old and New Testament

 

[TomL]

Whatever

That is your attitude, which is contrary to and disrespectful to the word of God.

as was shown

Sorry, "world" does not mean "elect," and you have posted no passage that shows that

World may be those who are hostile to God and it may also be all people

.
Christ died for all.

Hebrews 2:9 (LEB) — 9 but we see Jesus, for a short time made lower than the angels, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that apart from God he might taste death on behalf of everyone.

2 Corinthians 5:14–15 (KJV 1900) — 14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.



A ransom for all, as God desires the salvation of all people

1 Timothy 2:3–6 (LEB) — 3 This is good and acceptable before God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and human beings, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, the testimony at the proper time,

He was therefore making propitiation for all the world's sin

1 John 2:2 (LEB) — 2 and he is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Christ is therefore a savior for all the world

1 John 4:14 (LEB) — 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

Titus 2:11 (LEB) — 11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people,

1 Timothy 4:10 (LEB) — 10 For to this end we labor and suffer reproach, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of believers.

Christ is the savior of all people, believers and unbelievers, in that he died for all, and all may be saved through faith




Now you ignore the fact this was already addressed, and those first prayed for are his men in service

And that afterwards he prays for all who believe based upon their testimony

John 17:20–23 (LEB) — 20 “And I do not ask on behalf of these only, but also on behalf of those who believe in me through their word, 21 that they all may be one, just as you, Father, are in me and I am in you, that they also may be in us, in order that the world may believe that you sent me. 22 And the glory that you have given to me, I have given to them, in order that they may be one, just as we are one—23 I in them, and you in me, in order that they may be completed in one, so that the world may know that you sent me, and you have loved them just as you have loved me.

And Christ's desire is that both be one so that

in order that the world may believe that you sent me. 22 And the glory that you have given to me, I have given to them, in order that they may be one, just as we are one—23 I in them, and you in me, in order that they may be completed in one, so that the world may know that you sent me, and you have loved them just as you have loved me.





This also has been refuted

The law never saved them

Romans 3:21–30 (LEB) — 21 But now, apart from the law, the righteousness of God has been revealed, being testified about by the law and the prophets—22 that is, the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. For there is no distinction, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified as a gift by his grace, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God made publicly available as the mercy seat through faith in his blood, for a demonstration of his righteousness, because of the passing over of previously committed sins, 26 in the forbearance of God, for the demonstration of his righteousness in the present time, so that he should be just and the one who justifies the person by faith in Jesus. 27 Therefore, where is boasting? It has been excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. 28 For we consider a person to be justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of the Jews only? Is he not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, also of the Gentiles, 30 since God is one, who will justify those who are circumcised by faith and those who are uncircumcised through faith.

Your beliefs are clearly not biblical and have been refuted over and over

 

[TomL]

I don't ignore it.

It doesn't compliment what the Old Testament says.

And when an interpretation conflicts with the Old Testament then it is a wrong interpretation.

Sorry but you clearly have

Let us note you ignored this.



Now redeeming those that were under the law does nothing whatsoever to counter what I posted.

Gentiles were given the Spirit, repentance unto life, had their hearts cleansed by faith.

United with Jews of faith

Ephesians 2:11–22 (LEB) — 11 Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, the so-called uncircumcision by the so-called circumcision in the flesh, made by hands, 12 that you were at that time apart from Christ, alienated from the citizenship of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, not having hope, and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you, the ones who once were far away, have become near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who made both one and broke down the dividing wall of the partition, the enmity, in his flesh, 15 invalidating the law of commandments in ordinances, in order that he might create the two in himself into one new man, thus making peace, 16 and might reconcile both in one body to God through the cross, killing the enmity in himself. 17 And coming, he proclaimed the good news of peace to you who were far away and peace to the ones who were near, 18 because through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 Consequently, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but you are fellow citizens of the saints and members of the household of God, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole building, joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are built up together into a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.

Gentiles and Jews were both reconciled in one body

and nothing you post is contrary to that.

And it was not the law but faith that brought them the redeemption

Romans 3:21–31 (LEB) — 21 But now, apart from the law, the righteousness of God has been revealed, being testified about by the law and the prophets—22 that is, the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. For there is no distinction, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified as a gift by his grace, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God made publicly available as the mercy seat through faith in his blood, for a demonstration of his righteousness, because of the passing over of previously committed sins, 26 in the forbearance of God, for the demonstration of his righteousness in the present time, so that he should be just and the one who justifies the person by faith in Jesus. 27 Therefore, where is boasting? It has been excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. 28 For we consider a person to be justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of the Jews only? Is he not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, also of the Gentiles, 30 since God is one, who will justify those who are circumcised by faith and those who are uncircumcised through faith. 31 Therefore, do we nullify the law through faith? May it never be! But we uphold the law.

Your position is clearly not biblical

 

[TomL]

Salvation is of Grace and automatically that makes it limited to only a remnant of mankind Grace only has to do with a remnant

Sorry, but grace may be extended to all those God desires to save

1 Timothy 2:3–4 (LEB) — 3 This is good and acceptable before God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

and so

Titus 2:11For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people,

Rom 4:16Because of this, it is by faith, in order that it may be according to grace, so that the promise may be secure to all the descendants, not only to those of the law, but also to those of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all

 

[civic]

Sorry, but grace may be extended to all those God desires to save

1 Timothy 2:3–4 (LEB) — 3 This is good and acceptable before God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

He must change the passage to say this


1 Timothy 2:3–4 (LEB) — 3 This is good and acceptable before God our Savior, 4 who wants all Jewish people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth

Like the Calvinist would change it to this


1 Timothy 2:3–4 (LEB) — 3 This is good and acceptable before God our Savior, 4 who wants all Elect people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth

 

[TomL]

He must change the passage to say this


1 Timothy 2:3–4 (LEB) — 3 This is good and acceptable before God our Savior, 4 who wants all Jewish people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth

Like the Calvinist would change it to this


1 Timothy 2:3–4 (LEB) — 3 This is good and acceptable before God our Savior, 4 who wants all Elect people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth

i added


Titus 2:11For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people,

This refutes his beliefs.

Rom 4:16Because of this, it is by faith, in order that it may be according to grace, so that the promise may be secure to all the descendants, not only to those of the law, but also to those of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all

 

[brightfame52]

Hallelu-JAH!

King of the Jews is Jesus the race Lord.

Thats a shame you rejoice in race worship

 

[brightfame52]

Sorry, but grace may be extended to all those God desires to save

1 Timothy 2:3–4 (LEB) — 3 This is good and acceptable before God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

and so

Titus 2:11For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people,

Rom 4:16Because of this, it is by faith, in order that it may be according to grace, so that the promise may be secure to all the descendants, not only to those of the law, but also to those of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all

No one of the prominent features of Grace is it is reserved for only a remnant. Thats why its the election of grace. Rom 11:5-7

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 ;And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

In order for it to appear to be grace, the rest of mankind is blinded.

That word obtained in Vs 7 is the same word or obtain in 2 Tim 2:10 describing who salvation is for

Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Salvation by Grace can only be for a elect remnant or its not Grace. Titus 2:11 is about the elect among all people

 

[TomL]

No one of the prominent features of Grace is it is reserved for only a remnant. Thats why its the election of grace. Rom 11:5-7

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 ;And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

In order for it to appear to be grace, the rest of mankind is blinded.

That word obtained in Vs 7 is the same word or obtain in 2 Tim 2:10 describing who salvation is for

Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Salvation by Grace can only be for a elect remnant or its not Grace. Titus 2:11 is about the elect among all people

Scripture refutes you

Titus 2:11For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people,

Christ death which is for all, is a matter of Grace

Hebrews 2:9 (LEB) — 9 but we see Jesus, for a short time made lower than the angels, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that apart from God he might taste death on behalf of everyone.

2 Corinthians 5:14–15 (KJV 1900) — 14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

A ransom for all, as God desires the salvation of all people

1 Timothy 2:3–6 (LEB) — 3 This is good and acceptable before God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and human beings, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, the testimony at the proper time,

He was therefore making propitiation for all the world's sin

1 John 2:2 (LEB) — 2 and he is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Christ is therefore a savior for all the world

1 John 4:14 (LEB) — 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

Titus 2:11 (LEB) — 11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people,

1 Timothy 4:10 (LEB) — 10 For to this end we labor and suffer reproach, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of believers.

Regarding Romans 11:5-7

Romans 11:5–8 (LEB) — 5 So in this way also at the present time, there is a remnant selected by grace. 6 But if by grace, it is no longer by works, for otherwise grace would no longer be grace. 7 What then? What Israel was searching for, this it did not obtain. But the elect obtained it, and the rest were hardened, 8 just as it is written, “God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that do not see and ears that do not hear, until this very day.”

Grace is offered to all. Those with faith obtain it. They become the elect or chosen

Romans 3:21–31 (LEB) — 21 But now, apart from the law, the righteousness of God has been revealed, being testified about by the law and the prophets—22 that is, the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. For there is no distinction, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified as a gift by his grace, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God made publicly available as the mercy seat through faith in his blood, for a demonstration of his righteousness, because of the passing over of previously committed sins, 26 in the forbearance of God, for the demonstration of his righteousness in the present time, so that he should be just and the one who justifies the person by faith in Jesus. 27 Therefore, where is boasting? It has been excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. 28 For we consider a person to be justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of the Jews only? Is he not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, also of the Gentiles, 30 since God is one, who will justify those who are circumcised by faith and those who are uncircumcised through faith.

and yet they can fall from grace

Galatians 5:4 (LEB) — 4 You are estranged from Christ, you who are attempting to be justified by the law; you have fallen from grace.

Hebrews 12:15 (LEB) — 15 Take care that no one falls short of the grace of God; that no one growing up like a root of bitterness causes trouble, and by it many become defiled;

Jude 4 (LEB) — 4 For certain men have slipped in stealthily, who were designated long ago for this condemnation, ungodly ones, who change the grace of our God into licentiousness and who deny our only Master and Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[civic]

Scripture refutes you

Titus 2:11For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people,

Christ death which is for all, is a matter of Grace

Hebrews 2:9 (LEB) — 9 but we see Jesus, for a short time made lower than the angels, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that apart from God he might taste death on behalf of everyone.

2 Corinthians 5:14–15 (KJV 1900) — 14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

A ransom for all, as God desires the salvation of all people

1 Timothy 2:3–6 (LEB) — 3 This is good and acceptable before God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and human beings, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, the testimony at the proper time,

He was therefore making propitiation for all the world's sin

1 John 2:2 (LEB) — 2 and he is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Christ is therefore a savior for all the world

1 John 4:14 (LEB) — 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

Titus 2:11 (LEB) — 11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people,

1 Timothy 4:10 (LEB) — 10 For to this end we labor and suffer reproach, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of believers.

Regarding Romans 11:5-7

Romans 11:5–8 (LEB) — 5 So in this way also at the present time, there is a remnant selected by grace. 6 But if by grace, it is no longer by works, for otherwise grace would no longer be grace. 7 What then? What Israel was searching for, this it did not obtain. But the elect obtained it, and the rest were hardened, 8 just as it is written, “God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that do not see and ears that do not hear, until this very day.”

Grace is offered to all. Those with faith obtain it. They become the elect or chosen

Romans 3:21–31 (LEB) — 21 But now, apart from the law, the righteousness of God has been revealed, being testified about by the law and the prophets—22 that is, the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. For there is no distinction, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified as a gift by his grace, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God made publicly available as the mercy seat through faith in his blood, for a demonstration of his righteousness, because of the passing over of previously committed sins, 26 in the forbearance of God, for the demonstration of his righteousness in the present time, so that he should be just and the one who justifies the person by faith in Jesus. 27 Therefore, where is boasting? It has been excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. 28 For we consider a person to be justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of the Jews only? Is he not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, also of the Gentiles, 30 since God is one, who will justify those who are circumcised by faith and those who are uncircumcised through faith.

and yet they can fall from grace

Galatians 5:4 (LEB) — 4 You are estranged from Christ, you who are attempting to be justified by the law; you have fallen from grace.

Hebrews 12:15 (LEB) — 15 Take care that no one falls short of the grace of God; that no one growing up like a root of bitterness causes trouble, and by it many become defiled;

Jude 4 (LEB) — 4 For certain men have slipped in stealthily, who were designated long ago for this condemnation, ungodly ones, who change the grace of our God into licentiousness and who deny our only Master and Lord Jesus Christ.

Amen

 

[brightfame52]

@TomL

Scripture refutes you

How ? Salvation is by Grace, thats scripture.

 

[TomL]

@TomL



How ? Salvation is by Grace, thats scripture.

You ignored all this

Titus 2:11For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people,

Christ death which is for all, is a matter of Grace

Hebrews 2:9 (LEB) — 9 but we see Jesus, for a short time made lower than the angels, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that apart from God he might taste death on behalf of everyone.

2 Corinthians 5:14–15 (KJV 1900) — 14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

A ransom for all, as God desires the salvation of all people

1 Timothy 2:3–6 (LEB) — 3 This is good and acceptable before God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and human beings, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, the testimony at the proper time,

He was therefore making propitiation for all the world's sin

1 John 2:2 (LEB) — 2 and he is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Christ is therefore a savior for all the world

1 John 4:14 (LEB) — 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

Titus 2:11 (LEB) — 11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people,

1 Timothy 4:10 (LEB) — 10 For to this end we labor and suffer reproach, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of believers.

Regarding Romans 11:5-7

Romans 11:5–8 (LEB) — 5 So in this way also at the present time, there is a remnant selected by grace. 6 But if by grace, it is no longer by works, for otherwise grace would no longer be grace. 7 What then? What Israel was searching for, this it did not obtain. But the elect obtained it, and the rest were hardened, 8 just as it is written, “God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that do not see and ears that do not hear, until this very day.”

Grace is offered to all. Those with faith obtain it. They become the elect or chosen

Romans 3:21–31 (LEB) — 21 But now, apart from the law, the righteousness of God has been revealed, being testified about by the law and the prophets—22 that is, the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. For there is no distinction, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified as a gift by his grace, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God made publicly available as the mercy seat through faith in his blood, for a demonstration of his righteousness, because of the passing over of previously committed sins, 26 in the forbearance of God, for the demonstration of his righteousness in the present time, so that he should be just and the one who justifies the person by faith in Jesus. 27 Therefore, where is boasting? It has been excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. 28 For we consider a person to be justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of the Jews only? Is he not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, also of the Gentiles, 30 since God is one, who will justify those who are circumcised by faith and those who are uncircumcised through faith.

and yet they can fall from grace

Galatians 5:4 (LEB) — 4 You are estranged from Christ, you who are attempting to be justified by the law; you have fallen from grace.

Hebrews 12:15 (LEB) — 15 Take care that no one falls short of the grace of God; that no one growing up like a root of bitterness causes trouble, and by it many become defiled;

Jude 4 (LEB) — 4 For certain men have slipped in stealthily, who were designated long ago for this condemnation, ungodly ones, who change the grace of our God into licentiousness and who deny our only Master and Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[civic]

You ignored all this

Titus 2:11For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people,

Christ death which is for all, is a matter of Grace

Hebrews 2:9 (LEB) — 9 but we see Jesus, for a short time made lower than the angels, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that apart from God he might taste death on behalf of everyone.

2 Corinthians 5:14–15 (KJV 1900) — 14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

A ransom for all, as God desires the salvation of all people

1 Timothy 2:3–6 (LEB) — 3 This is good and acceptable before God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and human beings, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, the testimony at the proper time,

He was therefore making propitiation for all the world's sin

1 John 2:2 (LEB) — 2 and he is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Christ is therefore a savior for all the world

1 John 4:14 (LEB) — 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

Titus 2:11 (LEB) — 11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people,

1 Timothy 4:10 (LEB) — 10 For to this end we labor and suffer reproach, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of believers.

Regarding Romans 11:5-7

Romans 11:5–8 (LEB) — 5 So in this way also at the present time, there is a remnant selected by grace. 6 But if by grace, it is no longer by works, for otherwise grace would no longer be grace. 7 What then? What Israel was searching for, this it did not obtain. But the elect obtained it, and the rest were hardened, 8 just as it is written, “God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that do not see and ears that do not hear, until this very day.”

Grace is offered to all. Those with faith obtain it. They become the elect or chosen

Romans 3:21–31 (LEB) — 21 But now, apart from the law, the righteousness of God has been revealed, being testified about by the law and the prophets—22 that is, the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. For there is no distinction, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified as a gift by his grace, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God made publicly available as the mercy seat through faith in his blood, for a demonstration of his righteousness, because of the passing over of previously committed sins, 26 in the forbearance of God, for the demonstration of his righteousness in the present time, so that he should be just and the one who justifies the person by faith in Jesus. 27 Therefore, where is boasting? It has been excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. 28 For we consider a person to be justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of the Jews only? Is he not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, also of the Gentiles, 30 since God is one, who will justify those who are circumcised by faith and those who are uncircumcised through faith.

and yet they can fall from grace

Galatians 5:4 (LEB) — 4 You are estranged from Christ, you who are attempting to be justified by the law; you have fallen from grace.

Hebrews 12:15 (LEB) — 15 Take care that no one falls short of the grace of God; that no one growing up like a root of bitterness causes trouble, and by it many become defiled;

Jude 4 (LEB) — 4 For certain men have slipped in stealthily, who were designated long ago for this condemnation, ungodly ones, who change the grace of our God into licentiousness and who deny our only Master and Lord Jesus Christ.

Spot on brother!!!

 

[brightfame52]

@TomL

You ignored all this

All is covered by Salvation is by Grace. You dont believe that ?

 

[civic]

@TomL


All is covered by Salvation is by Grace. You dont believe that ?

Yes we believe we are saved by grace through faith.

Next fallacy

 

[brightfame52]

Yes we believe we are saved by grace through faith.

Next fallacy

Grace Salvation has to do with Election of Grace, even Faith is of Grace

 

[civic]

Grace Salvation has to do with Election of Grace, even Faith is of Grace

Nope faith in the gospel

 

[brightfame52]

Nope faith in the gospel

Its of Grace. Those who have been chosen to salvation are given grace to believe Acts 13:48

The Gentiles were delighted when they heard this and glorified the word of the Lord. All who were destined for eternal life came to believe,NABRE

The people who were not Jews were glad when they heard this. They were thankful for the Word of God. Those who were chosen for life that lasts forever believed. NLV

48 When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and praised the word of the Lord; and as many as had been destined for eternal life became believers NRSVA

 

[TomL]

@TomL


All is covered by Salvation is by Grace. You dont believe that ?

Again, you ignore the point.

Grace does not determine who will believe and be saved

Titus 2:11For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people,

Christ death which is for all, is a matter of Grace

Hebrews 2:9 (LEB) — 9 but we see Jesus, for a short time made lower than the angels, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that apart from God he might taste death on behalf of everyone.

2 Corinthians 5:14–15 (KJV 1900) — 14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

Yet all are not saved.

A ransom for all, as God desires the salvation of all people

1 Timothy 2:3–6 (LEB) — 3 This is good and acceptable before God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and human beings, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, the testimony at the proper time,

He was therefore making propitiation for all the world's sin

1 John 2:2 (LEB) — 2 and he is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Christ is therefore a savior for all the world

1 John 4:14 (LEB) — 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

Titus 2:11 (LEB) — 11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people,

1 Timothy 4:10 (LEB) — 10 For to this end we labor and suffer reproach, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of believers.

Regarding Romans 11:5-7

Romans 11:5–8 (LEB) — 5 So in this way also at the present time, there is a remnant selected by grace. 6 But if by grace, it is no longer by works, for otherwise grace would no longer be grace. 7 What then? What Israel was searching for, this it did not obtain. But the elect obtained it, and the rest were hardened, 8 just as it is written, “God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that do not see and ears that do not hear, until this very day.”

Grace is offered to all. Those with faith obtain it. They become the elect or chosen

Romans 3:21–31 (LEB) — 21 But now, apart from the law, the righteousness of God has been revealed, being testified about by the law and the prophets—22 that is, the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. For there is no distinction, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified as a gift by his grace, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God made publicly available as the mercy seat through faith in his blood, for a demonstration of his righteousness, because of the passing over of previously committed sins, 26 in the forbearance of God, for the demonstration of his righteousness in the present time, so that he should be just and the one who justifies the person by faith in Jesus. 27 Therefore, where is boasting? It has been excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. 28 For we consider a person to be justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of the Jews only? Is he not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, also of the Gentiles, 30 since God is one, who will justify those who are circumcised by faith and those who are uncircumcised through faith.

and yet they can fall from grace

Galatians 5:4 (LEB) — 4 You are estranged from Christ, you who are attempting to be justified by the law; you have fallen from grace.

Hebrews 12:15 (LEB) — 15 Take care that no one falls short of the grace of God; that no one growing up like a root of bitterness causes trouble, and by it many become defiled;

Jude 4 (LEB) — 4 For certain men have slipped in stealthily, who were designated long ago for this condemnation, ungodly ones, who change the grace of our God into licentiousness and who deny our only Master and Lord Jesus Christ.

Your argument that grace is determinative is not correct.