jeremiah1five
Active Member
I agree. The apostles did not contradict the Old Testament.
It's YOUR interpretation of the New Testament that is WRONG.
The Issue of Limited Atonement
- Thread starter The Rogue Tomato
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It's YOUR interpretation of the New Testament that is WRONG.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
The Old Testament were written by Hebrew prophets sent specifically to Israel.Oh, and I forgot to mention: God doesn't lie. So the fact that what God says contradicts your personal beliefs should make you question your beliefs, not question what God says.
God never sanctioned the New Testament letters. However, I believe they were written inspired of God and are a very good explanation of the New Covenant era Israel found itself in. God never sanctioned a "new "Bible. But the apostles wrote to Jews and Jewish Christians explaining the things taking place in Israel and among Jews in Gentile lands is the Acts of the Holy Spirit and the LETTERS; are written by Jews to Jews explaining through study of the Old Testament prophecies and promises that Israel was indeed in the New Covenant era prophesied by Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Moses, and Jole, and their explanations of the Old Testament text is rightly divided.
It is YOUR interpretation that is WRONG.
Doug Brents
Active Member
Certainly it is unnecessary for you to study the Scripture. Since seem to know more than God about what Scripture means.
Not necessarily. All through the OT, not a single person would have read Hos 11:1 and thought it meant anything other than exactly what it says, Out of Egypt, God called the nation of Israel. Yet when we read Matt 2:15, we get a whole new perspective on what Hosea meant, and see that it was not only talking about what had happened, but was a prophecy about what would happen. New information gives new insight into what the OT passages mean.
God gave the Apostles, including Paul/Saul greater understanding of the OT Scripture so that they could see how He fulfilled all of what was written in the OT, and so they could more perfectly instruct the Church in its beginning.
Again, read Gal 3:8 which looks back to Gen 12:3 and Gen 22:18. Paul is giving us greater insight into what God was telling Abraham.
All of mankind, Jews and Gentiles alike, are brought into the New Covenant with Christ. There is no longer a division between Jews and Gentiles as we are told in Eph 2:14-15.
Doug Brents
Active Member
Wait a minute here. God didn't sanction them, but He inspired them? He literally breathed them into the writers yet He didn't sanction them?
Sorry, but your Jew-focused blinders are what is wrong. The NT Letters were written to Christ followers of every nation and tongue. Read the introductions to each letter again. They are written to the saints in each place or area. Not to Jewish saints. Not to Jewish leaders. Not to Jewish heroes. But to the saints, period. There are, and were even then, saints among the Jews and among the Gentiles (many more Gentile saints today than there are Jewish saints).
brightfame52
Active Member
What's your obsession ? I already showed you about Rom 5:12
brightfame52
Active Member
Thats your opinion, I feel the same about you. We will see one day in the Judgment.
Try all men
Christ's blood was a necessary element to effect the covenant.
Matt 26:28for this is my blood of the covenant which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.
Mark 14:24And he said to them, “This is my blood of the covenant which is poured out for many.
Luke 22:20And in the same way the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood which is poured out for you.
1 Cor 11:25Likewise also the cup, after they had eaten, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.”
And his blood was poured out in his death for all
Hebrews 2:9 (LEB) — 9 but we see Jesus, for a short time made lower than the angels, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that apart from God he might taste death on behalf of everyone.
2 Corinthians 5:14–15 (KJV 1900) — 14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
A ransom for all, as God desires the salvation of all people
1 Timothy 2:3–6 (LEB) — 3 This is good and acceptable before God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and human beings, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, the testimony at the proper time,
He was therefore making propitiation for all the world's sin
1 John 2:2 (LEB) — 2 and he is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Christ is therefore a savior for all the world
1 John 4:14 (LEB) — 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.
Titus 2:11 (LEB) — 11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people,
1 Timothy 4:10 (LEB) — 10 For to this end we labor and suffer reproach, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of believers.
All which extol what is spoken of here
Ephesians 2:12–22 (LEB) — 12 that you were at that time apart from Christ, alienated from the citizenship of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, not having hope, and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you, the ones who once were far away, have become near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who made both one and broke down the dividing wall of the partition, the enmity, in his flesh, 15 invalidating the law of commandments in ordinances, in order that he might create the two in himself into one new man, thus making peace, 16 and might reconcile both in one body to God through the cross, killing the enmity in himself. 17 And coming, he proclaimed the good news of peace to you who were far away and peace to the ones who were near, 18 because through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 Consequently, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but you are fellow citizens of the saints and members of the household of God, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole building, joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are built up together into a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.
You need to stop rejecting the word of God.
Doug Brents
Active Member
The only obsession I have is accurately interpreting what Scripture says. You showed me what you believe it says. I pointed out to you what it actually says and means. I know you don't want to believe that each person is condemned because of what he/she has actually done, but that is what Scripture tells us. You were not condemned because of what Adam did. You were condemned because you, brightflame, broke God's law and committed sin.
LOL
You simply ignored much
Hebrews 2:9 (LEB) — 9 but we see Jesus, for a short time made lower than the angels, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that apart from God he might taste death on behalf of everyone.
doing nothing at all to show everyone means Jews alone
or that all also refers to Jews alone
2 Corinthians 5:14–15 (KJV 1900) — 14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
Or that all people mean Jews alone
1 Timothy 2:3–6 (LEB) — 3 This is good and acceptable before God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and human beings, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, the testimony at the proper time,
Gentiles, it seems, were part of the all people/human beings to whom was provided the Christ as a ranson.
He was therefore making propitiation for all the world's sin
1 John 2:2 (LEB) — 2 and he is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Christ is therefore a savior for all the world
1 John 4:14 (LEB) — 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.
Titus 2:11 (LEB) — 11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people,
1 Timothy 4:10 (LEB) — 10 For to this end we labor and suffer reproach, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of believers.
World likewise does not mean Jews alone
And Gentiles clearly received the effects of the New Covenant
Acts 10:45And those believers from the circumcision who had accompanied Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles,
Acts 11:1Now the apostles and the brothers who were throughout Judea heard that the Gentiles also had accepted the word of God.
Acts 11:18And when they heard these things, they became silent and praised God, saying, “Then God has granted the repentance leading to life to the Gentiles also!”
Acts 13:48And when the Gentiles heard this, they began to rejoice and to glorify the word of the Lord. And all those who were designated for eternal life believed.
Perhaps you should consider repentance as you reject the word of even He who brought about the covenant.
John 6:51 (LEB) — 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats from this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.”
John 12:46I have come as a light into the world, in order that everyone who believes in me will not remain in the darkness.
John 12:47And if anyone hears my words and does not observe them, I will not judge him. For I have not come to judge the world, but to save the world.
As I noted, you have ignored much of the word of God and failed to be a light to the world as you were commanded.
This was a message to Jews
Acts 13:46Both Paul and Barnabas spoke boldly and said, “It was necessary that the word of God be spoken first to you, since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life! Behold, we are turning to the Gentiles!
Doug Brents
Active Member
Oh, and God told them to do that. It wasn't their choice, but at God's direction.
brightfame52
Active Member
Man had a solidarity, union in Adam when he sinned, so much so all men in him sinned, that's how God reckons it.
brightfame52
Active Member
I already showed you about Rom 5:12, you showed me what you believe, you in error
Doug Brents
Active Member
Your opinion is noted. Get your head out of the sand, and actually study what the Word of God says.
That is NOT how God reckons it. He holds each person accountable for their own sin, and does not impute the sins of one on another.
brightfame52
Active Member
@jeremiah1five
Only as they were in Christ, so the letter is appropriate for anyone in Christ. In Hebrews when it speaks of Christ as a High Priest as say here Heb 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
He is the same for Gentile believers in Christ Jesus
Only as they were in Christ, so the letter is appropriate for anyone in Christ. In Hebrews when it speaks of Christ as a High Priest as say here Heb 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
He is the same for Gentile believers in Christ Jesus
You have shown nothing in contradiction to
Titus 2:11 (LEB) — 11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people,
and assume God cannot bring any he wants into the covenant
Sorry, but world does not mean Jews alone
You are redefining words to suit your likes.
You argued above world refers to the world of the Jews.
But BTW
John 17:6–9 (LEB) — 6 “I have revealed your name to the men whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours, and you have given them to me, and they have kept your word. 7 Now they understand that all the things that you have given me are from you, 8 because the words that you gave to me I have given to them, and they received them and know truly that I have come from you, and they have believed that you have sent me. 9 I am asking on behalf of them. I am not asking on behalf of the world, but on behalf of those whom you have given me, because they are yours,
World here is simply those who are not Gods
And
John 15:19 If you were of the world, the world would love its own. But because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, for this reason the world hates you.
John 17:6 “I have revealed your name to the men whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours, and you have given them to me, and they have kept your word.
Christ here prays for the disciples he had been given
Later he prays for those who believe in God through the ministry of those given
John 17:20 (LEB) — 20 “And I do not ask on behalf of these only, but also on behalf of those who believe in me through their word,
world here remain those who do not know God
John 17:25 (LEB) — 25 Righteous Father, although the world does not know you, yet I have known you, and these men have come to know that you sent me.
Nowhere is there reference to sacrifice only for the world of Jews.
You failed to address this
The many died because they had sinned.
Romans 5:12 (LEB) — 12 Because of this, just as sin entered into the world through one man, and death through sin, so also death spread to all people because all sinned.
Adam brought death into the world, and all people have faced this because they have sinned.
BTW look at the phrase all people. It does not mean all the elect
The same phrase appears here
Titus 2:11 (LEB) — 11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people,
Yes, God directed his disciples to do so.
Acts 13:47 (LEB) — 47 For so the Lord has commanded us: ‘I have appointed you to be a light for the Gentiles, that you would bring salvation to the end of the earth.’
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