The Issue of Limited Atonement

[jeremiah1five]

@jeremiah1five
That Covenant promise includes Gentiles, its a Gospel Promise, but it was a Mystery Eph 3:4-6

There is only ONE place in all of the Old Testament where God introduces a New Covenant and it is found prophesied by Jeremiah in 31:31-34, and there is NO MENTION of Gentiles being included in this covenant, a covenant that is established in real life by Jesus Christ, the Lion from the tribe of Judah.

What you are doing is being dishonest with God's Word. And Satan is the father of dishonest, unrepentant people.

4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

The mystery is Jesus Christ, the Son of God Himself, leaving heaven and becoming man to die for the sins of the children of Israel. Saul makes this clear in most his letters to Jews and Jewish Christians of his day.

True born-again Christians do not add to the Bible whatever the hell they want. Now I know where you stand with regard to God and His Word.

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise[Covenant] in Christ by the gospel:

Its obvious the Spirit hasnt revealed this to you, may God be pleased to give you that revelation

The Spirit doesn't add to the Bible things not there. Sorry.

Now I know who you are.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Sorry, but you are stuck in the Old Testament.

And just because it is stated a new covenant was made with Israel, no evidence at all is presented that God could not extend it to the gentiles.

You are also stuck with the fact Gentiles are spoken of as having been offered and given salvation should they believe in Christ.

And the New Covenant involves the blood of Christ.

1 Cor 11:25Likewise also the cup, after they had eaten, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.”

and it is poured out on many

Matt 26:28 for this is my blood of the covenant which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

You simply ignore the New Testament which shows gentiles are brought into the covenent

Ephesians 2:11–22 (LEB) — 11 Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, the so-called uncircumcision by the so-called circumcision in the flesh, made by hands, 12 that you were at that time apart from Christ, alienated from the citizenship of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, not having hope, and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you, the ones who once were far away, have become near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who made both one and broke down the dividing wall of the partition, the enmity, in his flesh, 15 invalidating the law of commandments in ordinances, in order that he might create the two in himself into one new man, thus making peace, 16 and might reconcile both in one body to God through the cross, killing the enmity in himself. 17 And coming, he proclaimed the good news of peace to you who were far away and peace to the ones who were near, 18 because through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 Consequently, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but you are fellow citizens of the saints and members of the household of God, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole building, joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are built up together into a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.

The thing is that if something is not found in the Bible then it just doesn't exist as doctrine to be received of God.

The New Covenant is found in only ONE place in the Old Testament, and it is a prophecy spoken by Jeremiah in 31:31-34, and there is no mention of Gentiles in the New Covenant.

That's the bottom line.

If you want to add to the Bible things the Spirit has never said that's on you. I know that most true born-again Christians do not add to the bible as you do. I never did. You do so at your own peril.

 

[civic]

I know race worship is idolatry

So is false gods

 

[TomL]

The thing is that if something is not found in the Bible then it just doesn't exist as doctrine to be received of God.

The New Covenant is found in only ONE place in the Old Testament, and it is a prophecy spoken by Jeremiah in 31:31-34, and there is no mention of Gentiles in the New Covenant.

That's the bottom line.

If you want to add to the Bible things the Spirit has never said that's on you. I know that most true born-again Christians do not add to the bible as you do. I never did. You do so at your own peril.

Newsflash: the New Testament is part of the Bible, and you just ignore it

Sorry, but you are stuck in the Old Testament.

And just because it is stated a new covenant was made with Israel, no evidence at all is presented that God could not extend it to the gentiles.

You are also stuck with the fact Gentiles are spoken of as having been offered and given salvation should they believe in Christ.

And the New Covenant involves the blood of Christ.

1 Cor 11:25Likewise also the cup, after they had eaten, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.”

and it is poured out on many

Matt 26:28 for this is my blood of the covenant which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

You simply ignore the New Testament which shows gentiles are brought into the covenent

Ephesians 2:11–22 (LEB) — 11 Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, the so-called uncircumcision by the so-called circumcision in the flesh, made by hands, 12 that you were at that time apart from Christ, alienated from the citizenship of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, not having hope, and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you, the ones who once were far away, have become near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who made both one and broke down the dividing wall of the partition, the enmity, in his flesh, 15 invalidating the law of commandments in ordinances, in order that he might create the two in himself into one new man, thus making peace, 16 and might reconcile both in one body to God through the cross, killing the enmity in himself. 17 And coming, he proclaimed the good news of peace to you who were far away and peace to the ones who were near, 18 because through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 Consequently, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but you are fellow citizens of the saints and members of the household of God, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole building, joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are built up together into a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.

 

[brightfame52]

Sorry Rom 5:12 does not say that Adam's sin became theirs.

Romans 5:12 (LEB) — 12 Because of this, just as sin entered into the world through one man, and death through sin, so also death spread to all people because all sinned.

It simply states death extended to all people because all sinned.

And you just ignored this.

Again all men had a solidarity in Adam, when he sinned, all men sinned in and by him. Rom 5:12

 

[jeremiah1five]

Newsflash: the New Testament is part of the Bible, and you just ignore it

The New Testament is only as valid as it interprets the Old Testament.

We true born-again Christian s do not have any right to add to the Bible of the Old Testament things not there.

Jeremiah speaks about a New Covenant and there are no Gentiles named, mentioned, or included in this covenant which we know today was established in the body and blood of Jesus bar Joseph, Son of the Living God.

You add to the Bible.

 

[brightfame52]

There is only ONE place in all of the Old Testament where God introduces a New Covenant and it is found prophesied by Jeremiah in 31:31-34, and there is NO MENTION of Gentiles being included in this covenant, a covenant that is established in real life by Jesus Christ, the Lion from the tribe of Judah.

What you are doing is being dishonest with God's Word. And Satan is the father of dishonest, unrepentant people.

The mystery is Jesus Christ, the Son of God Himself, leaving heaven and becoming man to die for the sins of the children of Israel. Saul makes this clear in most his letters to Jews and Jewish Christians of his day.

True born-again Christians do not add to the Bible whatever the hell they want. Now I know where you stand with regard to God and His Word.


The Spirit doesn't add to the Bible things not there. Sorry.

Now I know who you are.

Again, the New Covenant Promises included Gentiles, the house of Israel and Judah are Spiritual and includes Gentiles Eph 3 its a mystery God hasnt revealed to you, hopefully He will

 

[Doug Brents]

There is only ONE place in all of the Old Testament where God introduces a New Covenant and it is found prophesied by Jeremiah in 31:31-34, and there is NO MENTION of Gentiles being included in this covenant, a covenant that is established in real life by Jesus Christ, the Lion from the tribe of Judah.

You keep claiming this, but it has been proven false over and over.
All nations are brought into the covenant that is established in Christ Jesus (Matt 28:19, Gal 3:8 (Gen 12:3, Gen 22:18), Eph 2:17-18).

The mystery is Jesus Christ, the Son of God Himself, leaving heaven and becoming man to die for the sins of the children of Israel. Saul makes this clear in most his letters to Jews and Jewish Christians of his day.

Most of Paul's letters were written to primarily Gentile congregations of the Church or Gentile individuals (Rom 1:7, 1 Cor 1:2, 2 Cor 1:1, Gal 1:1, Eph 1:1, Phil 1:1, Col 1:2, 1 Thes 1:1, 2 Thes 1:1, 1 Tim 1:2 (Timothy was a Gentile having had a Gentile father, but a Jewish mother), Titus 1:4 (Titus was a Gentile), Phil 1:1 (Philemon was a Gentile)).

Most of Paul's time was spent preaching to Gentiles, although he still spent some time preaching to Jews because of his love for his people, and his desire to see them saved.

 

[brightfame52]

@jeremiah1five

Jeremiah speaks about a New Covenant and there are no Gentiles named, mentioned, or included in this covenant which we know today was established in the body and blood of Jesus bar Joseph, Son of the Living God.

That was the Mystery, Gentiles were included in the Covenant Promises made to Israel Eph 3:4

4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
Peter Preaching to jews in Acts 3 about the Covenant promises to Abraham stated
24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.

25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

now Paul writing to the Church at Gaiatia comprised of Gentiles took that same Covenant Promise in Acts 3:25 and applied it to Gentiles Gal 3:8-9

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen[Gentiles] through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
The word heathen in Vs 8 above is the greek word ethnos:

Its used as Gentiles 93 x in the NT,

What's called the Covenant in Acts 3:25 is called Gospel in Gal 3:8 and so heathen Gentiles are partakers of and fellow heirs in the Covenant Promise Made to the Body of Israel in Jer 31:31-34


See the New Covenant promises in Jer 31 are in Christ the Mediator of the New Covenant

 

[jeremiah1five]

You keep claiming this, but it has been proven false over and over.
All nations are brought into the covenant that is established in Christ Jesus (Matt 28:19, Gal 3:8 (Gen 12:3, Gen 22:18), Eph 2:17-18).

Born-again Christians today read and study the Old Testament the SAME WAY the disciples James, John, Peter, and even Saul studied the Old Testament. They read what was written and they interpret it as written. The New Testament writings are evidence of that method. It's called today "exegetical" meaning:

Exegetical is an adjective that relates to the careful study or interpretation of a text, especially a religious text like the Bible, in order to draw out its original, intended meaning. The term comes from the Greek word exegesis, which means "to lead out" or "to explain."

Unlike eisegesis, which is the act of reading one's own ideas into a text, exegetical analysis is a method of study that seeks to be objective by examining the historical, cultural, grammatical, and literary context of a work. The goal of this approach is to understand what the author intended to communicate to the original audience. This practice is used not only for religious texts but also for literature, philosophy, and other forms of writing.

Exegetical study of the Holy Bible is what you are not doing.

Most of Paul's letters were written to primarily Gentile congregations of the Church or Gentile individuals (Rom 1:7, 1 Cor 1:2, 2 Cor 1:1, Gal 1:1, Eph 1:1, Phil 1:1, Col 1:2, 1 Thes 1:1, 2 Thes 1:1, 1 Tim 1:2 (Timothy was a Gentile having had a Gentile father, but a Jewish mother), Titus 1:4 (Titus was a Gentile), Phil 1:1 (Philemon was a Gentile)).

Most of Paul's time was spent preaching to Gentiles, although he still spent some time preaching to Jews because of his love for his people, and his desire to see them saved.

Born-again Christians today read and study the Old Testament the SAME WAY the disciples James, John, Peter, and even Saul studied the Old Testament. They read what was written and they interpret it as written. The New Testament writings are evidence of that method. It's called today "exegetical" meaning:

Exegetical is an adjective that relates to the careful study or interpretation of a text, especially a religious text like the Bible, in order to draw out its original, intended meaning. The term comes from the Greek word exegesis, which means "to lead out" or "to explain."

Unlike eisegesis, which is the act of reading one's own ideas into a text, exegetical analysis is a method of study that seeks to be objective by examining the historical, cultural, grammatical, and literary context of a work. The goal of this approach is to understand what the author intended to communicate to the original audience. This practice is used not only for religious texts but also for literature, philosophy, and other forms of writing.

Exegetical study of the Holy Bible is what you are not doing.

 

[jeremiah1five]

You keep claiming this, but it has been proven false over and over.
All nations are brought into the covenant that is established in Christ Jesus (Matt 28:19, Gal 3:8 (Gen 12:3, Gen 22:18), Eph 2:17-18).

Most of Paul's letters were written to primarily Gentile congregations of the Church or Gentile individuals (Rom 1:7, 1 Cor 1:2, 2 Cor 1:1, Gal 1:1, Eph 1:1, Phil 1:1, Col 1:2, 1 Thes 1:1, 2 Thes 1:1, 1 Tim 1:2 (Timothy was a Gentile having had a Gentile father, but a Jewish mother), Titus 1:4 (Titus was a Gentile), Phil 1:1 (Philemon was a Gentile)).

Most of Paul's time was spent preaching to Gentiles, although he still spent some time preaching to Jews because of his love for his people, and his desire to see them saved.

Born-again Christians today read and study the Old Testament the SAME WAY the disciples James, John, Peter, and even Saul studied the Old Testament. They read what was written and they interpret it as written. The New Testament writings are evidence of that method. It's called today "exegetical" meaning:

Exegetical is an adjective that relates to the careful study or interpretation of a text, especially a religious text like the Bible, in order to draw out its original, intended meaning. The term comes from the Greek word exegesis, which means "to lead out" or "to explain."

Unlike eisegesis, which is the act of reading one's own ideas into a text, exegetical analysis is a method of study that seeks to be objective by examining the historical, cultural, grammatical, and literary context of a work. The goal of this approach is to understand what the author intended to communicate to the original audience. This practice is used not only for religious texts but also for literature, philosophy, and other forms of writing.

Exegetical study of the Holy Bible is what you are not doing.

 

[brightfame52]

@jeremiah1five

The New Testament is only as valid as it interprets the Old Testament.

Thats false and its reversed, the old testament is interpreted by the New Testament, the Apostles were gifted by God to do that.

 

[jeremiah1five]

@jeremiah1five



Thats false and its reversed, the old testament is interpreted by the New Testament, the Apostles were gifted by God to do that.

You are mixed up and have it backwards. How can the Old Testament interpret the New Testament which was written first? You have it backwards.

When you get a letter, you interpret it as written.

 

[brightfame52]

You are mixed up and have it backwards. How can the Old Testament interpret the New Testament which was written first? You have it backwards.

When you get a letter, you interpret it as written.

You have it backwards, The Apostles were taught by the Spirit to interpret the OT scripture

 

[Doug Brents]

Born-again Christians today read and study the Old Testament the SAME WAY the disciples James, John, Peter, and even Saul studied the Old Testament. They read what was written and they interpret it as written. The New Testament writings are evidence of that method. It's called today "exegetical" meaning:

Exegetical is an adjective that relates to the careful study or interpretation of a text, especially a religious text like the Bible, in order to draw out its original, intended meaning. The term comes from the Greek word exegesis, which means "to lead out" or "to explain."

Unlike eisegesis, which is the act of reading one's own ideas into a text, exegetical analysis is a method of study that seeks to be objective by examining the historical, cultural, grammatical, and literary context of a work. The goal of this approach is to understand what the author intended to communicate to the original audience. This practice is used not only for religious texts but also for literature, philosophy, and other forms of writing.

Exegetical study of the Holy Bible is what you are not doing.

That is your opinion, because your preconceived idea that there is no covenant that includes the Gentiles. That is a false concept, because it is clear from what God told Abraham (Gal 3:8 (Gen 12:3, Gen 22:18)) that the Gentiles were always going to be included in the New Covenant.

The overwhelming canvas of the OT Scripture shows that God was not only going to save the Jews, but people of all nations, tribes, tongues, and peoples through covenant with Jesus.

 

[TomL]

Again all men had a solidarity in Adam, when he sinned, all men sinned in and by him. Rom 5:12

again

The New Testament is only as valid as it interprets the Old Testament.

We true born-again Christian s do not have any right to add to the Bible of the Old Testament things not there.

Jeremiah speaks about a New Covenant and there are no Gentiles named, mentioned, or included in this covenant which we know today was established in the body and blood of Jesus bar Joseph, Son of the Living God.

You add to the Bible.

Um You subtract from the bible

Omitting the New Testament and even some Old Testament verses

Isaiah 49:6 (LEB) — 6 And he says, “It is trivial for you to be a servant for me, to raise up the tribes of Jacob and to bring back the preserved of Israel. I will give you as a light to the nations, to be my salvation to the end of the earth.”

Isaiah 42:6 (LEB) — 6 “I am Yahweh; I have called you in righteousness, and I have grasped your hand and watched over you; and I have given you as a covenant of the people, as a light of the nations,

Isaiah 11:10 (KJV 1900) — 10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, Which shall stand for an ensign of the people; To it shall the Gentiles seek: And his rest shall be glorious.





Even your Old Testament

 

[brightfame52]

again

Um You subtract from the bible

Omitting the New Testament and even some Old Testament verses

Isaiah 49:6 (LEB) — 6 And he says, “It is trivial for you to be a servant for me, to raise up the tribes of Jacob and to bring back the preserved of Israel. I will give you as a light to the nations, to be my salvation to the end of the earth.”

Isaiah 42:6 (LEB) — 6 “I am Yahweh; I have called you in righteousness, and I have grasped your hand and watched over you; and I have given you as a covenant of the people, as a light of the nations,

Isaiah 11:10 (KJV 1900) — 10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, Which shall stand for an ensign of the people; To it shall the Gentiles seek: And his rest shall be glorious.





Even your Old Testament

All men had a solidarity in Adam, when he sinned, all his seed in him sinned, and as promised, they died, be dead Rom 5:15
But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

 

[Doug Brents]

All men had a solidarity in Adam, when he sinned, all his seed in him sinned, and as promised, they died, be dead Rom 5:15
But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

Read Eze 18. It completely disproves all of this nonsense. Each person is judged by what he has done. Not by what his father or son did. Not by what Adam did.

 

[brightfame52]

Read Eze 18. It completely disproves all of this nonsense. Each person is judged by what he has done. Not by what his father or son did. Not by what Adam did.

Ezk 18 hasn't nothing to do with it. There has been Two Federal Heads, Christ and Adam which both acted as Heads and Representatives of their offspring . Ezk 18 is National civil matters under the Old Covenant legislation. You need to follow the Apostles Doctrine, for they understand the Old Testament far better than we and try to understand Rom 5:12ff

 

[TomL]

All men had a solidarity in Adam, when he sinned, all his seed in him sinned, and as promised, they died, be dead Rom 5:15
But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

The many died because they had sinned.

Romans 5:12 (LEB) — 12 Because of this, just as sin entered into the world through one man, and death through sin, so also death spread to all people because all sinned.

Adam brought death into the world, and all people have faced this because they have sinned.

BTW look at the phrase all people. It does not mean all the elect

The same phrase appears here

Titus 2:11 (LEB) — 11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people,