brightfame52
Active Member
Also you may want to read what I posted here:
The Issue of Limited Atonement
- Thread starter The Rogue Tomato
- Start date
jeremiah1five
Active Member
Trusting in the flesh. The Spirit hadn't been given yet because Christ hadn't been sacrificed and He was still in the future. You're just making things up. The Abraham Covenant did not include atonement for sin.Wishful thinkingChrist gives remission of sins, and He is the Blessing of Abraham
brightfame52
Active Member
The Abrahamic Covenant included Christ the author of the forgiveness of sins Acts 5:31
31 Him[Christ] hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
When it says in Abrahams seed all nations shall be blessed, forgiveness of sins is part of that blessing
BTW Israel in the above scripture isnt national ethnic israel, but a Spiritual Nation Israel, the Body of Christ, New Covenant Israel of God
jeremiah1five
Active Member
AGAIN, the Abraham Covenant is described in Genesis 12, 15, and 17. There is nothing in this covenant that grants atonement to Abraham and his seed. There is no sacrifice, no high priest, no Tabernacle or Temple, no altar, NOTHING!
NOTHING!
I'm done with you and your heresy.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
God has forgiven this entire world.
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2Co 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
You might understand this better one day. I hope you do.
brightfame52
Active Member
Christ gives forgiveness Abrahams seed
brightfame52
Active Member
False teaching God has not forgiven the entire world
jeremiah1five
Active Member
Universalism is Unbiblical.
Saul is addressing Jews and Jewish Christians ar Corinth. This fellowship was founded by born-again Jews who traveled to Jerusalem on the Pentecost immediately following Jesus' crucifixion and ascension ca. AD 42. Three thousand Jews were born-again by the Holy Spirit of Promise PROMISED TO ISRAEL - Joel, who returned to their homes and synagogues taking with them their experience with the Holy Spirit, an outline of Peter's sermon and a witness of Jesus Christ who was taught in the Scripture the coming of the Deliverer and King of Israel. Shortly after returning with the witness of their Messiah and King died on a tree, which to the Jews under the Law meant anyone who hung on a tree (in this case, Jesus' crucifixion) was cursed. This truth was a stumbling block to Jews and Judaizers who could not reconcile Jesus' death with this point under the Law of Moses. First, Jewish Christians were excommunicated from the synagogues and began to gather in homes of Jewish Christians, and this is how their fellowship/church began at Corinth.
Jesus died for the covenant people of God, and this means Israel for they were God's Chosen people and were promised a Redeemer who would conquer Israel's enemies and sit on David's throne. This prophecy is yet future.
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. Galatians 4:4–5.
This truth is undeniable.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
Believe as you will but no atonement is included in the Abraham Covenant but is provided for in the Mosaic Covenant.
If there was atonement provided for under the Abraham Covenant Saul would have said so. Instead, he refers to the Mosaic Covenant as the vehicle of Israel's deliverance from their enemies and God's enemies.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Galatians 3:22–24.
God ordained the Law of Moses as the mechanism and vehicle of Israel's salvation and deliverance.
brightfame52
Active Member
Do you believe Christ Jesus has anything to do with the Abrahamic Covenant ?
brightfame52
Active Member
Were there any Gentile proselytes under the Law of Moses ?
jeremiah1five
Active Member
Not in the way you present it.
brightfame52
Active Member
Christ is the seed of Abraham Gal 3:16
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Now Look Eph 4:32
And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
Col 3:13
Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.
Also Rom 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
The word redemption is the greek word apolytrōsis:
- a releasing effected by payment of ransom
- redemption, deliverance
- liberation procured by the payment of a ransom
everywhere in the N. T. metaphorically, viz. deliverance effected through the death of Christ from the retributive wrath of a holy God and the merited penalty of sin:
This is all part of the Blessing of Abraham
jeremiah1five
Active Member
I understand that. However, although Christ would come later the promised seed given to Abraham is Isaac, born of a free woman. Isaac embodied every promise God gave to Abraham, and when Abraham died Isaac inherited the promises God gave to Abraham. The birth of Jesus was not dissimilar to Isaac's. And from Isaac Jacob was born, a twin of Esau. When the promises were not fulfilled the inheritance fell on Jacob, then to his twelve sons when Jacob died. This inheritance from generation to generation continued until the birth of Jesus.
23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli, Luke 3:23.
until we come to Abraham, but it doesn't stop there.
34 Which was the son of Jacob, which was the son of Isaac, which was the son of Abraham, which was the son of Thara, which was the son of Nachor, Luke 3:34.
I understand that. But There is no salvation promised in the Abraham Covenant. It is wrapped up in the Mosaic Covenant and the building of the Tabernacle, which was a representation of Messiah who was promised to come.
Saul in hindsight was able to connect Isaac as the Promised seed with Jesus who was the fulfillment seed, but there is nothing in the Abraham Covenant God promising atonement. Through study of Scripture Saul was able to make the connections, but with the Mosaic Covenant. This was the covenant Jesus fulfilled and when Isaac was born, he was the fulfillment of the promise of an heir. Isaac was an extension of Abraham's seed. He was the son promised by God, and shortly, in Abraham's day, symbolized on the altar when Abraham had the knife to slay him on the altar, only served to represent a future occurrence with Jesus. Nothing in the Abraham Covenant spoke of any forgiveness or atonement. It only presented a model that would find fulfillment in Jesus' day. Centuries would separate the two. Issac was type and shadow, not the reality. Just a shadow that was not understood until Saul studied the Scripture and saw
the type and shadow. But there was no forgiveness or atonement in the Abraham Covenant promises and that what Abraham understood it to be. One could look up to the nighttime stars and see stars. But the map of constellation was not part of the knowledge Abraham possessed concerning Isaac. His birth was only an event promised by God to Abraham.
4 And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir. Genesis 15:4.
When Isaac was born THAT promise was fulfilled.
brightfame52
Active Member
But you dont understand forgiveness in the Abrahamic Covenant. Thats inconsistent
jeremiah1five
Active Member
You can say "It's in the blessings!" but when the promises were given to Abe God said nothing about forgiveness, or mercy, or atonement. These are spoken of in the Mosaic Covenant, and when Jesus came and fulfilled that covenant, then that was the basis of the New Covenant. And in both covenants, forgiveness is mentioned. But there is nothing in the Abraham Covenant. Nada.
civic
Active Member
He does not realize there are 600 years from Abraham to Moses and the law
praise_yeshua
Active Member
How about expanding your knowledge.....
Gen 22:12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.
Gen 22:13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.
The context of forgiveness in the first born. The "heir" of all things.
brightfame52
Active Member
Christ is the blessing, forgiveness is through Him
jeremiah1five
Active Member
Yes, according to a straightforward reading of the biblical timeline in Genesis, Noah could have been alive when Abraham received the covenant promises from God.
Here's the breakdown of the chronology:
The Flood: Genesis 7:6 states that Noah was 600 years old when the Flood occurred.
Noah's Lifespan: Genesis 9:28-29 says that Noah lived for another 350 years after the Flood, dying at the age of 950.
Birth of Abraham: The genealogies in Genesis 11 allow us to trace the years from the Flood to the birth of Abraham. By adding up the ages of the patriarchs at the birth of their sons, we find that Abraham (then called Abram) was born approximately 292 years after the Flood.
Abraham and Noah Overlap: Since Noah lived for 350 years after the Flood, and Abraham was born 292 years after the Flood, this means they lived at the same time for about 58 years.
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