The Importance of The Law of Moses

[jeremiah1five]

So, you think giving people less than the whole counsel of God when trying to convince people to believe you is better than giving the whole counsel so they can believe YHVH?
You've just demonstrated why you are not a trustworthy source!
It's written in Isaiah 55,

Isaiah was a Hebrew prophet sent by God to His covenant Hebrew people. There were no non-Hebrew Gentiles in the three Hebrew covenants. None.

Here's a passage of the Abraham Covenant between God, Abram the Hebrew, and Abram's seed. Do you see any non-Hebrew Gentiles mentioned included in this covenant?

7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. Gen. 17:7.

Do you?

Looks like only Hebrews in this covenant.
Shall we next try the Mosaic Covenant to see if there are any non-Hebrew Gentiles in that covenant?

you keep cutting out things that don't support your beliefs.
what did you think was going to happen!
If you’re having so much frustration, perhaps you should simply pack it in and leave.

Answer my comment above. Are there any non-Hebrew Gentiles in the Abraham or Mosaic Covenants?

did you think you're going to convince people with erroneous ideas, and bad arguments?
upon whom do you believe?
Paul describes in 1 Corinthians 2 that our faith is to be based on the power of God, not the wisdom of man.

Here it is again. Tell me if there are any non-Hebrew Gentiles in the Abraham Covenant:

7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. Gen. 17:7.

Answer me.

I'd say you are the one who is in opposition to God's Word.

And this is exactly why.
Jesus talked about traveling land and see to make one convert, and turning people away from the Kingdom of God.

So you think that Gentiles becoming born again, and being regenerated by the Spirit of God and the Word of God makes them antisemitic?

Antisemitism is part and parcel of the spirit of antichrist.

Here is my question again. Answer me. Are there any non-Hebrew Gentiles in the Abraham Covenant?

7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. Gen. 17:7.

If you don't give an answer to those that ask of the hope in you and tell me where are the non-Hebrew Gentiles mentioned in the Abraham Covenant above.

If you don't answer me then I know you're not honest with the Bible and are just a fake.

 

[SteveB]

Isaiah was a Hebrew prophet sent by God to His covenant Hebrew people. There were no non-Hebrew Gentiles in the three Hebrew covenants. None.

Interesting...
You don't actually know, do you?
Abram was a gentile.
as was Sarai, which means that Isaac was a Gentile too.
and Rebecca was a relative to Isaac, through Abram's brother, Nahor.
which means that Jacob was a Gentile.
you really should read the Bible more closely.

Genesis 11, Genesis 22, 28
Israel is the descendant of Gentiles.

Here's a passage of the Abraham Covenant between God, Abram the Hebrew, and Abram's seed. Do you see any non-Hebrew Gentiles mentioned included in this covenant?

7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. Gen. 17:7.

Read chapters 11, 22, 28.

What made Abraham an Hebrew?
Genesis 12:3.
Gen 12:3 WEB I will bless those who bless you, and I will curse him who treats you with contempt. All the families of the earth will be blessed through you.”
who are all the families of the earth?
are all the families of the earth all Hebrew?

Do you?

as a of of fact....

Gen 12:3 WEB I will bless those who bless you, and I will curse him who treats you with contempt. All the families of the earth will be blessed through you.”

Looks like only Hebrews in this covenant.
Shall we next try the Mosaic Covenant to see if there are any non-Hebrew Gentiles in that covenant?

you should read the law more closely.
Exodus 12:49, Numbers 15:15-16, Leviticus 24:22,
We then have Rahab, Ruth, through who comes David, Jesus....
Furthermore, Moses married Zipporah, a Midianite, and later an Ethiopian.

Answer my comment above. Are there any non-Hebrew Gentiles in the Abraham or Mosaic Covenants?

yep.

Here it is again. Tell me if there are any non-Hebrew Gentiles in the Abraham Covenant:

7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. Gen. 17:7.

and?

Answer me.

You're awfully demanding and entitled.

Here is my question again. Answer me. Are there any non-Hebrew Gentiles in the Abraham Covenant?

7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. Gen. 17:7.

read more.

If you don't give an answer to those that ask of the hope in you and tell me where are the non-Hebrew Gentiles mentioned in the Abraham Covenant above.

If you don't answer me then I know you're not honest with the Bible and are just a fake.

Pity you don't read much.

you should read the law more closely.

Exodus 12:49, Numbers 15:15-16, Leviticus 24:22,

We then have Rahab, Ruth, through who comes David, Jesus....

Furthermore, Moses married Zipporah, a Midianite, and later an Ethiopian.

Zipporah means Moses' two sons are Gentiles.
Any children he had with the Ethiopian woman would be Gentiles too.

Solomon married 700 women and had 300 playmates. Many, if not most of his wives were Gentiles.
How many children did he have?

Nehemiah, and Ezra describe the intermarriages with Gentiles.

You really should read more.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Interesting...
You don't actually know, do you?
Abram was a gentile.

Abram was Hebrew:

13 And there came one that had escaped, and told Abram the Hebrew; Gen. 14:13.

as was Sarai, which means that Isaac was a Gentile too.
and Rebecca was a relative to Isaac, through Abram's brother, Nahor.
which means that Jacob was a Gentile.
you really should read the Bible more closely.

No, you should read the bible more closely.
Sarai was Abram's niece. Her father and Abram's father wetre brothers. This means she was also Hebrew and a descendant of Eber same as Abram.

In the biblical narrative, Eber is a pivotal figure in the lineage of the Hebrew people. He is a great-grandson of Noah, son of Shem, and the father of Peleg and Joktan. It's believed that the term "Hebrew" is derived from his name.
Eber is a direct ancestor of Abraham, considered the father of the Hebrew nation.
Eber's lineage is traced throughout the Old Testament, connecting him to the origins of the Hebrew people and their religious traditions.
Eber's role as a foundational figure in the Hebrew genealogy is undeniable within the context of the Hebrew Bible.

Genesis 11, Genesis 22, 28
Israel is the descendant of Gentiles.

More garbage. I just proved you wrong. Learn something.

What made Abraham an Hebrew?
Genesis 12:3.
Gen 12:3 WEB I will bless those who bless you, and I will curse him who treats you with contempt. All the families of the earth will be blessed through you.”
who are all the families of the earth?
are all the families of the earth all Hebrew?
as a of of fact....

Gen 12:3 WEB I will bless those who bless you, and I will curse him who treats you with contempt. All the families of the earth will be blessed through you.”

you should read the law more closely.
Exodus 12:49, Numbers 15:15-16, Leviticus 24:22,
We then have Rahab, Ruth, through who comes David, Jesus....
Furthermore, Moses married Zipporah, a Midianite, and later an Ethiopian.

Being that the covenant is with the Hebrew people through Abraham, the families of the earth are the descendants of Ishmael and Esau and their families as they are both Abraham's seed and according to the covenant God promised to bless Abraham and his seed and Ishamel and Esau are his seed.

Funny, you accuse me of not reading the bible more closely but through Scripture, I just proved you wrong on several points, false teaching that has infected your mind to see the Hebrew Record with a Gentile mindset. Of course, you're going to end up in error. The sad thing is you lie about what Scripture says and say it is the truth. Sorry but no lie is of the truth, John said. You are definitely not honest with Scripture and others need to be careful with you and your heresy.

 

[jeremiah1five]

The importance of the Law of Moses to the Hebrew people is of utmost importance.
The Law of Moses to them is the foundation and end of their deliverance from life and living, sin and death, and is the basis upon which, when rightly divided and understood to the Hebrew is the Laws by which the Hebrew people are to live under as God brings this family of a thousand generations into eternal life.

But not only the Law, but also the Psalms and the Prophets. Every jot and tittle spoken and written by God to the Hebrew descendants of Abraham are instruction in righteousness so that the man (and woman) of God may be throughly furnished unto all good works.

Without the Law of Moses this people to whom God have given His eternal word would be like a ship on the sea without a rudder drifting aimlessly through life and living and leaning on their own understanding in the vanity of their minds. Without the Law of Moses this people would not survive. The Law of Moses is the Hebrew covenant which leads to eternal salvation for the Hebrew people.

 

[SteveB]

Abram was Hebrew:

13 And there came one that had escaped, and told Abram the Hebrew; Gen. 14:13.

No, you should read the bible more closely.
Sarai was Abram's niece. Her father and Abram's father wetre brothers. This means she was also Hebrew and a descendant of Eber same as Abram.

In the biblical narrative, Eber is a pivotal figure in the lineage of the Hebrew people. He is a great-grandson of Noah, son of Shem, and the father of Peleg and Joktan. It's believed that the term "Hebrew" is derived from his name.
Eber is a direct ancestor of Abraham, considered the father of the Hebrew nation.
Eber's lineage is traced throughout the Old Testament, connecting him to the origins of the Hebrew people and their religious traditions.
Eber's role as a foundational figure in the Hebrew genealogy is undeniable within the context of the Hebrew Bible.

More garbage. I just proved you wrong. Learn something.

Being that the covenant is with the Hebrew people through Abraham, the families of the earth are the descendants of Ishmael and Esau and their families as they are both Abraham's seed and according to the covenant God promised to bless Abraham and his seed and Ishamel and Esau are his seed.

Funny, you accuse me of not reading the bible more closely but through Scripture, I just proved you wrong on several points, false teaching that has infected your mind to see the Hebrew Record with a Gentile mindset. Of course, you're going to end up in error. The sad thing is you lie about what Scripture says and say it is the truth. Sorry but no lie is of the truth, John said. You are definitely not honest with Scripture and others need to be careful with you and your heresy.

Now it just shows you increasingly desperate to win an argument that you lost a long, long, long time ago. Genesis 11, 22, and 28 shows the Gentile origins of the people of Israel.
Genesis 12:3 shows that God will bless the whole of the human race through the descendants of Abram.
Matthew 28:18-20 shows Jesus calling to preach the gospel to all of humanity.


You keep raging though. It's sadly amusing to see you carry on like this.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Now it just shows you increasingly desperate to win an argument that you lost a long, long, long time ago. Genesis 11, 22, and 28 shows the Gentile origins of the people of Israel.
Genesis 12:3 shows that God will bless the whole of the human race through the descendants of Abram.
Matthew 28:18-20 shows Jesus calling to preach the gospel to all of humanity.


You keep raging though. It's sadly amusing to see you carry on like this.

What are you an edited? Gentiles did not come into existence until God made covenant with Abraham and circumcision. Gentile means “non-Hebrew.”
Try studying and stay away from all that Gentile theology edited.
If you want to know about the Hebrew people and their history ask anew or rabbi. Gentile theology will mess you up like you are now.

 

[SteveB]

What are you an idiot?

according to the guy who thinks Gentiles cannot be saved.

Gentiles did not come into existence until God made covenant with Abraham and circumcision. Gentile means “non-Hebrew.”

so non-Hebrew people didn't even exist until Hebrew people?

Try studying and stay away from all that Gentile theology crap.

I've been reading the entire Bible since the late 70's, not long after I began following Jesus.

If you want to know about the Hebrew people and their history ask anew or rabbi. Gentile theology will mess you up like you are now.

You're the one who keeps saying that YHVH cannot save Gentiles.
I'd say that you're the one who needs learning.

 

[jeremiah1five]

according to the guy who thinks Gentiles cannot be saved.

I take Scripture as written. Don't you?

so non-Hebrew people didn't even exist until Hebrew people?

Correct. The very definition of "Gentile" means "non-Hebrew/Jewish."
If there's no Hebrews, there's no Gentiles.
People before Abraham and circumcision which definitely and finally separated by God between those not in Covenant with those in Covenant. People before Abraham were known as Adamites, like Jebusites, Amorites, etc.

I've been reading the entire Bible since the late 70's, not long after I began following Jesus.

Yes, but your sources for theology are Gentile in origin. I was infected just as you are until the LORD opened up the very reasonable idea that a presumed Gentile could not possibly truly nor fully understand Hebrew history and culture. And that's what is in view when reading the Hebrew Bible - and Matthew to Revelations is Hebrew in origin and authorship. I find it incredible that God dealing with one Hebrew family that became millions of Hebrew families, protected them, taught them His Law, gave them promises and treated them like His very own covenant people for 5000 years, even gave them His Word and in one moment in time that after sending His Son to die for them His first words are to non-Hebrew Gentiles? Where were they for 5,000 years? They hated the Hebrews, killed them, made slaves of them, raped their women, murdered their children, killed their men and destroyed their promised land and trampled all over the Hebrews - even today.

God Himself scattered His covenant people in history four times with the latest being 1930-40s Germany. The other three were Assyria (Gentile), Babylonian (Gentile), Roman (Gentile.) Jesus' interaction with the Samaritan woman reveals that half-Jew/half-Gentile Hebrews were still Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise (Gal. 3:28-29), but these verses were written to Jewish Christians who were concerned about their standing in the Abraham Covenant being followers of Jesus of Nazareth.

Did you know that after the apostles and even Saul remained obedient and observant to the Law of Moses after being born-again? Saul remained a rabbi and a Pharisee after his conversion to Christ. Did you know that Romans written by Saul is Saul using standard rabbinical debate/argument rules and high training in that letter - in all his letters, and He had to translate His Jewish culture thoughts into Greek language to relay Hebrew history and culture to presumed non-Hebrew Gentiles (the teaching in the churches today) but who just may be Hebrews of mixed heritage growing up for 500 years and several generations of Hebrews who did not return with Nehemiah and the remnant but remained in Gentile lands heavily influenced by Greek culture (Hellenized) and grew up without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world?

I said I take Scripture as written. I don't add, subtract, nor change it to suit my theology. Jesus said He didn't come for the non-Hebrew Gentile but for the lost sheep of the House of Israel. In merely reading Scripture in Genesis 12, 15, and 17 I find no non-Hebrew Gentiles in this covenant with Abraham when made. The same goes for the Mosaic Covenant. Now let's see how indoctrinated you are in Gentile theology. The animal sacrifice on Yom Kippur and other circumstances were sacrificed to temporarily atone for the sins of the children of Israel. If Jesus came to fulfill the Law and is substitute by God for the animal sacrificed, then His death did not change the Law but fulfilled it, then His death - as with the animal sacrificed - died to atone for the sins of the children of Israel as prophesied and covenanted. Another thing. The Holy Spirit of Promise was promised by God to Israel ONLY. There are no Scripture God promises His Spirit to uncircumcised, non-covenant, non-Hebrew Gentiles. So, how can a non-Hebrew Gentile claim to be baptized into the Hebrew covenant and body of Christ if the Spirit is the one to baptize but He wasn't promised to non-Hebrew Gentiles? This can only happen if that presumed "Gentile" actually had at least one Hebrew parent in their family ancestry when God scattered the Hebrews four times to the four corners of the earth? And did you know the word "earth" in the Hebrew Scripture refers to the Holy Land? That's why I said, ask a rabbi or a Jew. And you should. If you are blinded, you won't. But if you want to know the truth then you'll go to the one place you've never gone in your presumed "search" for God's truth - the Hebrew people. And then you can judge for yourself whether or not you're in the truth and actually possessing the truth or you are self-deceived. God said He would send a delusion into the world. How do you know it's not the belief that non-Hebrew Gentiles are in the covenants of God when there is no mention of this profane, separated group of people in Scripture when these covenants were made? I'm in the minority here on this subject. But I know a lot about Hebrew history and culture and looking at Scripture in light of this people and their culture has exposed me to many things the so-called "Christian" on the street doesn't know. There is too much evidence against non-Hebrew Gentiles being in any covenant and in right standing with God. When the Times of the Gentile ends do you know how this happens? You can stay in your comfort zone and not look into these things, but you can never say I have search far and wide this world for God's truth and I have found it where I am. If you cannot look into Hebrew history, language, and culture to understand the Scripture and this so-great salvation, then you really have not searched far and wide in this life for God's truth and you are only self-deceived. And that is a deadly place to be.

You're the one who keeps saying that YHVH cannot save Gentiles.
I'd say that you're the one who needs learning.

See above.

 

[TomL]

What are you an idiot? Gentiles did not come into existence until God made covenant with Abraham and circumcision. Gentile means “non-Hebrew.”
Try studying and stay away from all that Gentile theology crap.
If you want to know about the Hebrew people and their history ask anew or rabbi. Gentile theology will mess you up like you are now.

What terrible logic

If the Hebrew people came about at a certain point in time, then all were gentiles before that

Seeing that It might be a good idea for you to stop ridiculing the intelligence of others

 

[dwight92070]

What terrible logic

If the Hebrew people came about at a certain point in time, then all were gentiles before that

Seeing that It might be a good idea for you to stop ridiculing the intelligence of others

What are you an idiot? Gentiles did not come into existence until God made covenant with Abraham and circumcision. Gentile means “non-Hebrew.”
Try studying and stay away from all that Gentile theology crap.
If you want to know about the Hebrew people and their history ask anew or rabbi. Gentile theology will mess you up like you are now.

If all Hebrew people were like you, then why would anyone even care about knowing them and their history?
Fortunately, they're not all like you.

 

[TomL]

If all Hebrew people were like you, then why would anyone even care about knowing them and their history?
Fortunately, they're not all like you.

Amen

 

[jeremiah1five]

If all Hebrew people were like you, then why would anyone even care about knowing them and their history?
Fortunately, they're not all like you.

God's people always gravitate towards the things of God. Holy things for holy people. That's why we are commanded to not give that which is holy (God's Word) to dogs, nor to cast our pearls (God's wisdom) to swine.

 

[TomL]

God's people always gravitate towards the things of God. Holy things for holy people. That's why we are commanded to not give that which is holy (God's Word) to dogs, nor to cast our pearls (God's wisdom) to swine.

Never were any such epithets applied to gentile believers of Yeshua

 

[SteveB]

I take Scripture as written. Don't you?

As a matter of fact I do.
All 31,102 verses
I don't cherry-pick passages to support preconceived notions.

Correct. The very definition of "Gentile" means "non-Hebrew/Jewish."

It's ironic that Abram became Abraham when he believed YHVH's Word and was circumcised.

If there's no Hebrews, there's no Gentiles.

People before Abraham and circumcision which definitely and finally separated by God between those not in Covenant with those in Covenant. People before Abraham were known as Adamites, like Jebusites, Amorites, etc.

Yes, but your sources for theology are Gentile in origin.

i suppose that would explain the following.
Psa 25:14 WEB The friendship of Yahweh is with those who fear him. He will show them his covenant.
Psa 33:8 WEB Let all the earth fear Yahweh. Let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him.
By the looks of it, even David says Gentiles can be saved.

you're falling apart here J.

I was infected just as you are until the LORD opened up the very reasonable idea that a presumed Gentile could not possibly truly nor fully understand Hebrew history and culture.

fully understanding Hebrew history and culture is something only YHVH has the capacity to achieve.
so, if you think only Hebrew people can do this, you missed Isaiah's warning.

Isa 6:9-10 WEB 9 He said, “Go, and tell this people, ‘You hear indeed, but don’t understand. You see indeed, but don’t perceive.’ 10 Make the heart of this people fat. Make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their heart, and turn again, and be healed.”

Furthermore, he stated,

Isa 29:13 WEB The Lord said, “Because this people draws near with their mouth and honors me with their lips, but they have removed their heart far from me, and their fear of me is a commandment of men which has been taught;

And that's what is in view when reading the Hebrew Bible - and Matthew to Revelations is Hebrew in origin and authorship. I find it incredible that God dealing with one Hebrew family that became millions of Hebrew families, protected them, taught them His Law, gave them promises and treated them like His very own covenant people for 5000 years, even gave them His Word and in one moment in time that after sending His Son to die for them His first words are to non-Hebrew Gentiles? Where were they for 5,000 years? They hated the Hebrews, killed them, made slaves of them, raped their women, murdered their children, killed their men and destroyed their promised land and trampled all over the Hebrews - even today.

God Himself scattered His covenant people in history four times with the latest being 1930-40s Germany. The other three were Assyria (Gentile), Babylonian (Gentile), Roman (Gentile.) Jesus' interaction with the Samaritan woman reveals that half-Jew/half-Gentile Hebrews were still Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise (Gal. 3:28-29), but these verses were written to Jewish Christians who were concerned about their standing in the Abraham Covenant being followers of Jesus of Nazareth.

Did you know that after the apostles and even Saul remained obedient and observant to the Law of Moses after being born-again? Saul remained a rabbi and a Pharisee after his conversion to Christ. Did you know that Romans written by Saul is Saul using standard rabbinical debate/argument rules and high training in that letter - in all his letters, and He had to translate His Jewish culture thoughts into Greek language to relay Hebrew history and culture to presumed non-Hebrew Gentiles (the teaching in the churches today) but who just may be Hebrews of mixed heritage growing up for 500 years and several generations of Hebrews who did not return with Nehemiah and the remnant but remained in Gentile lands heavily influenced by Greek culture (Hellenized) and grew up without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world?

I said I take Scripture as written. I don't add, subtract, nor change it to suit my theology. Jesus said He didn't come for the non-Hebrew Gentile but for the lost sheep of the House of Israel. In merely reading Scripture in Genesis 12, 15, and 17 I find no non-Hebrew Gentiles in this covenant with Abraham when made. The same goes for the Mosaic Covenant. Now let's see how indoctrinated you are in Gentile theology. The animal sacrifice on Yom Kippur and other circumstances were sacrificed to temporarily atone for the sins of the children of Israel. If Jesus came to fulfill the Law and is substitute by God for the animal sacrificed, then His death did not change the Law but fulfilled it, then His death - as with the animal sacrificed - died to atone for the sins of the children of Israel as prophesied and covenanted. Another thing. The Holy Spirit of Promise was promised by God to Israel ONLY. There are no Scripture God promises His Spirit to uncircumcised, non-covenant, non-Hebrew Gentiles. So, how can a non-Hebrew Gentile claim to be baptized into the Hebrew covenant and body of Christ if the Spirit is the one to baptize but He wasn't promised to non-Hebrew Gentiles? This can only happen if that presumed "Gentile" actually had at least one Hebrew parent in their family ancestry when God scattered the Hebrews four times to the four corners of the earth? And did you know the word "earth" in the Hebrew Scripture refers to the Holy Land? That's why I said, ask a rabbi or a Jew. And you should. If you are blinded, you won't. But if you want to know the truth then you'll go to the one place you've never gone in your presumed "search" for God's truth - the Hebrew people. And then you can judge for yourself whether or not you're in the truth and actually possessing the truth or you are self-deceived. God said He would send a delusion into the world. How do you know it's not the belief that non-Hebrew Gentiles are in the covenants of God when there is no mention of this profane, separated group of people in Scripture when these covenants were made? I'm in the minority here on this subject. But I know a lot about Hebrew history and culture and looking at Scripture in light of this people and their culture has exposed me to many things the so-called "Christian" on the street doesn't know. There is too much evidence against non-Hebrew Gentiles being in any covenant and in right standing with God. When the Times of the Gentile ends do you know how this happens? You can stay in your comfort zone and not look into these things, but you can never say I have search far and wide this world for God's truth and I have found it where I am. If you cannot look into Hebrew history, language, and culture to understand the Scripture and this so-great salvation, then you really have not searched far and wide in this life for God's truth and you are only self-deceived. And that is a deadly place to be.

See above.

Definitely see above.

 

[jeremiah1five]

As a matter of fact I do.
All 31,102 verses
I don't cherry-pick passages to support preconceived notions.
It's ironic that Abram became Abraham when he believed YHVH's Word and was circumcised.

It's not ironic.

i suppose that would explain the following.
Psa 25:14 WEB The friendship of Yahweh is with those who fear him. He will show them his covenant.
Psa 33:8 WEB Let all the earth fear Yahweh. Let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him.
By the looks of it, even David says Gentiles can be saved.

you're falling apart here J.

Words spoken to Israel - NOT Gentiles.

fully understanding Hebrew history and culture is something only YHVH has the capacity to achieve.
so, if you think only Hebrew people can do this, you missed Isaiah's warning.

Isa 6:9-10 WEB 9 He said, “Go, and tell this people, ‘You hear indeed, but don’t understand. You see indeed, but don’t perceive.’ 10 Make the heart of this people fat. Make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their heart, and turn again, and be healed.”

Saul quoted that to Jews and Jewish Christians. They were never spoken to Gentiles, and it would break and violate Scripture to apply them to Gentiles today or at any time.

Furthermore, he stated,

Isa 29:13 WEB The Lord said, “Because this people draws near with their mouth and honors me with their lips, but they have removed their heart far from me, and their fear of me is a commandment of men which has been taught;



Definitely see above.

Definitely understand that Gentiles were never included in ANY of the three Hebrew covenants.

 

[Complete]

This could have easily been titled the importance of the Tanakh (Scripture from Genesis to Malachi), but my passages concern the Torah and Jesus' relation to them. I want to bring it out in this thread something particularly important to born-again believers who claim to be saved, filled with the Holy Spirit, and identify with Christ and Christianity. What I must share come directly from mouth of the Lord Jesus Christ to all believers. This is clear and there is no ambiguity in His message in this post. And those that are true, born-of-God believers will see the truth of what I must share. If you do see the truth in the words of Jesus Christ, then please make comment. This is from the mouth from your Savior.​

​

25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? ​

26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?​

27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. ​

28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live. ​

Luke 10:25–28.​

The word Lawyer" in verse 25 is "Nomikos" is from the Greek word "nomos" which means: "according (or pertaining) to law, i.e. legal (ceremony); as noun, an expert in the (Mosaic) law. ​

​

This "certain man" undoubtedly may have been a scribe or even a priest in the Sanhedrin. It says that he came to Jesus by day to test Him. The word "tempted" merely means "to test thoroughly." Sure, the priests could have sent him to find a way to 'trip up' Jesus in hopes of having something in which to accuse him. Or, he may have been Joseph of Arimathea or even Nicodemus. It doesn't say for this 'certain man' is not the focus of this interchange between he and Jesus. The focus is something more important as you shall see.​

This man is certainly a son of Abraham. Not only that, but through his father Jacob he comes to get Jesus' position on what turned out from the text focuses on the Torah or "the Law" (of Moses.) The man asked plainly what he could do to inherit eternal life and Jesus directed this man to the Torah (Law of Moses) by saying, "What is written in the law? how readest thou?" ​

​

In response the man quotes the tallest verse in Scripture taken from Deuteronomy 6:5 which reads: "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind;" To which the man adds: "and thy neighbour as thyself" (neighbor being one of the other members of the twelve tribes of Israel when the command of God was first given at the time of the Tabernacle.)​

​

In reply Jesus says: "Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live."​

At the time of this "testing thoroughly" by this expert in the Law, Jesus does two things to answer the man seeking eternal life as is his inheritance and birthright as seed of Abraham. But what does this Carpenter from Nazareth have to say?​

Jesus first directs the man to the Law of Moses (Torah), second, Jesus instructs the man "this do" (obey the Law of Moses) and he shall live. ​

'And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them,
I am the LORD your God.
After the doings of the land of Egypt, wherein ye dwelt,
shall ye not do:
and after the doings of the land of Canaan, whither I bring you,
shall ye not do:
neither shall ye walk in their ordinances.
Ye shall do My judgments, and keep Mine ordinances, to walk therein:
I am the LORD your God.
Ye shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments:
which if a man do, he shall live in them: I am the LORD.
(Lev 18:1-5)

Hello @jeremiah1five,

This is an interesting exchange (Luke 10:25-28), and I thank you for raising it.

The words (quoted above) state clearly that those who 'keep' God's statutes and judgments, 'he shall live in them'. Live here being, 'live again', in resurrection life, which Paul calls 'the hope of Israel' in Act 28:20, and before the Governor Felix in Acts 14:13-16:-

'Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me.
But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy,
so worship I the God of my fathers,
believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow,
that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void of offence
toward God, and toward men.'

* Paul also said in Romans 10:1-4:-

'Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
For they being ignorant of God's righteousness,
and going about to establish their own righteousness,
have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.'

Many Christians, specifically Gentile Christians teach and say the Law of Moses has been abolished or superseded by the New Covenant but that is not necessarily true if the Lord directs and instructs His people to obey the Law. Are we to obey the Law of Moses which Gentile Christianity teaches is "abolished"? But there's more.​

​

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.​

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. ​

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.​

Matthew 5:17–19.​

* The law is referred to fifteen times by the Lord Jesus Christ.
* Yes, the Lord came to fulfill the law, not to destroy it: but also in doing so, became the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believes on Him.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[SteveB]

It's not ironic.

Words spoken to Israel - NOT Gentiles.

Informing Israel that the entire human race can be given the covenant of YHVH by fearing him.

Saul quoted that to Jews and Jewish Christians.

Saul?
He wasn't born yet, for another 700 years.
That was Isaiah i quoted.

They were never spoken to Gentiles, and it would break and violate Scripture to apply them to Gentiles today or at any time.

yet David clearly had no problem whatsoever with noting that the entire human race would be given the covenant of YHVH by fearing him.

Definitely understand that Gentiles were never included in ANY of the three Hebrew covenants.

You should.
Yet you clearly, and repeatedly ignore that YHVH is saving Gentiles through Jesus Christ.
The Messiah of Israel.

 

[jeremiah1five]

'And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them,
I am the LORD your God.
After the doings of the land of Egypt, wherein ye dwelt,
shall ye not do:
and after the doings of the land of Canaan, whither I bring you,
shall ye not do:
neither shall ye walk in their ordinances.
Ye shall do My judgments, and keep Mine ordinances, to walk therein:
I am the LORD your God.
Ye shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments:
which if a man do, he shall live in them: I am the LORD.
(Lev 18:1-5)

Hello @jeremiah1five,

This is an interesting exchange (Luke 10:25-28), and I thank you for raising it.

The words (quoted above) state clearly that those who 'keep' God's statutes and judgments, 'he shall live in them'. Live here being, 'live again', in resurrection life, which Paul calls 'the hope of Israel' in Act 28:20, and before the Governor Felix in Acts 14:13-16:-

'Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me.
But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy,
so worship I the God of my fathers,
believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow,
that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void of offence
toward God, and toward men.'

* Paul also said in Romans 10:1-4:-

'Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
For they being ignorant of God's righteousness,
and going about to establish their own righteousness,
have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.'

* The law is referred to fifteen times by the Lord Jesus Christ.
* Yes, the Lord came to fulfill the law, not to destroy it: but also in doing so, became the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believes on Him.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Now, I'm beginning to think you found your thinking cap and finally put it on.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Informing Israel that the entire human race can be given the covenant of YHVH by fearing him.

Why do you take words in context and take them out of context? You and others do that with "world" "every man" "Gentiles" "all men" and others. God's Word is Holy. Israel is holy. Holy things for holy people. Unless you're one to cast that which is holy to dogs?
Yes, you are.

Saul?
He wasn't born yet, for another 700 years.
That was Isaiah i quoted.

And Isaiah as with ALL the prophets spoke to Israel. Where does God say to apply them to Gentiles?
Where?

yet David clearly had no problem whatsoever with noting that the entire human race would be given the covenant of YHVH by fearing him.

Scripture please.

You should.
Yet you clearly, and repeatedly ignore that YHVH is saving Gentiles through Jesus Christ.
The Messiah of Israel.

Either the apostles break Scripture by adding non-Hebrew Gentiles into the Hebrew covenant or Gentile interpretation breaks Scripture.
I vote the Gentile interpretations break Scripture.

 

[TomL]

Why do you take words in context and take them out of context? You and others do that with "world" "every man" "Gentiles" "all men" and others. God's Word is Holy. Israel is holy. Holy things for holy people. Unless you're one to cast that which is holy to dogs?
Yes, you are.

And Isaiah as with ALL the prophets spoke to Israel. Where does God say to apply them to Gentiles?
Where?

Scripture please.

Either the apostles break Scripture by adding non-Hebrew Gentiles into the Hebrew covenant or Gentile interpretation breaks Scripture.
I vote the Gentile interpretations break Scripture.

World, every man, Gentiles, all men does not mean only Hebrews no matter how much you wish for it to be true