The Importance of The Law of Moses

[jeremiah1five]

Really ????
Lol

Yes, really.
I am not the one who reject the commands of Christ. You response shows that you do.
I am closer to the truth than you are and I will prove it through the Word of God which you reject for your Constantinian Gentile heresy of the past 1900 years.

I am a born again Gentile, not a converted Jew and have zero desire to be entangled in bondage to their traditions that yoked them in burdens too hard for them to carry, causing their rebellion & backsliding from God.

You actually believe the command to 'not have other gods before you' is a bondage?
You actually believe the command to 'not take the Name of the LORD is vain' is a bondage?
You actually believe that your western free world diet is more nutritious than the diet of Creator God who knows what is good for your body, mind, and human spirit?
You actually believe you way of who to love is more wiser than the God who is love has given command to His people in when to love and who and how? All these commands you are calling a bondage? You actually believe that to be under the rule and reign of God and His Christ is a bondage as you say.
What a rejection of God and His Christ and His Law which He gave to His people in order for them to live in peace and safety among themselves and under His rule.
You have said these things, not I.

I am not anti-Semitic before you go there.

Based upon the above response from you it is clear you are antigod, antichrist, and antinomian.
Your own words you oppose God.

Your disrespect for the New Testament Covenant of whosoever will through faith in Christ is repulsive.

Let's be clear here. I don't reject God, Christ, or His Law/Torah. You do.
All three salvation covenants God made with man is made with the Hebrew people, not Gentiles.
The Abrahamic Covenant is between God and Abram the Hebrew and his seed. Gentiles are not his seed. And your declaration of being a non-Hebrew Gentile places you outside all the covenants of God.
70 Hebrew souls went into Egypt and in time had come under the bondage of the Gentile Egyptians. God raised up Moses to deliver the Hebrews from under their bondage and nearly 4 million Hebrews were led into the desert by God to serve Him. These were the descendants and children of Jacob/Israel. God made covenant with this people in the desert and built a Tabernacle and God gave them His Law/Torah so that there would be order and that this people learn the way in which God desired to be worshiped. Gentiles were never included in this covenant either.

Later, God promised through several prophets, especially Jeremiah, to make a New Covenant and this He did with the House of Israel (northern kingdom tribes) and the House of Judah (southern kingdom tribes) and to forgive their sin and this He did by sending His only begotten Son to be sacrificed under covenant Law for the people of Israel. I understand this covenant. I receive as truth the words of God in Jeremiah concerning this covenant, and by your declaration of being Gentile (non-Hebrew) places you again outside this covenant of God and the children of Jacob/Israel (Jer. 31:31-34.)

As well as your disgust of the conversion of the Apostle Paul from Saul the Pharisee to the apostle to the Gentiles.

I am not disgusted by Saul. He remained an observant Jew especially after he became a true, biblical Christian. I call him Saul because Christ called him Saul which is his Hebrew name. And as a Christ-follower I say the same thing as God and see the same Jesus as Saul. A Jesus born to Hebrew parents for the purpose of saving "His people" from their sin (Matt. 1:21.)
Saul was an apostle to Gentile proselytes and God-Fearers. And if any uncircumcised and non-aligned (to Israel) Gentiles were born again - which was a minority - Saul was instrumental in teaching them God's Law/Torah, a people that before conversion were the enemies of the Jews. Saul himself was a proud Hebrew and Pharisee and son of Abraham through the tribe of Benjamin and was even proud of his exemplary obedience to God's Law/Torah.

Maybe it is YOU who needs to re-assess his choice of beliefs to follow!

My understanding of salvation is of the LORD is biblical. I accept the salvation which is of the Jews in all its form and parts. I don't see being under the rule and reign of Christ as a bondage as you do. In my conversion I know who I am in Christ. I know my place in the body of Christ and know my spiritual gifts, talents, and pounds and my call in Christ. Do you know yours? Because if you don't then you are not being led by the Spirit of Christ but the spirit belonging to you in which you lean upon your own understanding in the vanity of your mind and as a result believe in things that are unmoored from its true, biblical, and Hebrew roots. You practice a Gentile Christianity which is not the Christianity of the bible and history.
I am a Biblical Christian. That's the only kind in existence. If ones Christianity is not biblical, then it is NOT Christianity.
And that's the bottom line.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Yes, really.
I am not the one who reject the commands of Christ. You response shows that you do.
I am closer to the truth than you are and I will prove it through the Word of God which you reject for your Constantinian Gentile heresy of the past 1900 years.

You actually believe the command to 'not have other gods before you' is a bondage?
You actually believe the command to 'not take the Name of the LORD is vain' is a bondage?
You actually believe that your western free world diet is more nutritious than the diet of Creator God who knows what is good for your body, mind, and human spirit?
You actually believe you way of who to love is more wiser than the God who is love has given command to His people in when to love and who and how? All these commands you are calling a bondage? You actually believe that to be under the rule and reign of God and His Christ is a bondage as you say.
What a rejection of God and His Christ and His Law which He gave to His people in order for them to live in peace and safety among themselves and under His rule.
You have said these things, not I.

Based upon the above response from you it is clear you are antigod, antichrist, and antinomian.
Your own words you oppose God.

Let's be clear here. I don't reject God, Christ, or His Law/Torah. You do.
All three salvation covenants God made with man is made with the Hebrew people, not Gentiles.
The Abrahamic Covenant is between God and Abram the Hebrew and his seed. Gentiles are not his seed. And your declaration of being a non-Hebrew Gentile places you outside all the covenants of God.
70 Hebrew souls went into Egypt and in time had come under the bondage of the Gentile Egyptians. God raised up Moses to deliver the Hebrews from under their bondage and nearly 4 million Hebrews were led into the desert by God to serve Him. These were the descendants and children of Jacob/Israel. God made covenant with this people in the desert and built a Tabernacle and God gave them His Law/Torah so that there would be order and that this people learn the way in which God desired to be worshiped. Gentiles were never included in this covenant either.

Later, God promised through several prophets, especially Jeremiah, to make a New Covenant and this He did with the House of Israel (northern kingdom tribes) and the House of Judah (southern kingdom tribes) and to forgive their sin and this He did by sending His only begotten Son to be sacrificed under covenant Law for the people of Israel. I understand this covenant. I receive as truth the words of God in Jeremiah concerning this covenant, and by your declaration of being Gentile (non-Hebrew) places you again outside this covenant of God and the children of Jacob/Israel (Jer. 31:31-34.)

I am not disgusted by Saul. He remained an observant Jew especially after he became a true, biblical Christian. I call him Saul because Christ called him Saul which is his Hebrew name. And as a Christ-follower I say the same thing as God and see the same Jesus as Saul. A Jesus born to Hebrew parents for the purpose of saving "His people" from their sin (Matt. 1:21.)
Saul was an apostle to Gentile proselytes and God-Fearers. And if any uncircumcised and non-aligned (to Israel) Gentiles were born again - which was a minority - Saul was instrumental in teaching them God's Law/Torah, a people that before conversion were the enemies of the Jews. Saul himself was a proud Hebrew and Pharisee and son of Abraham through the tribe of Benjamin and was even proud of his exemplary obedience to God's Law/Torah.

My understanding of salvation is of the LORD is biblical. I accept the salvation which is of the Jews in all its form and parts. I don't see being under the rule and reign of Christ as a bondage as you do. In my conversion I know who I am in Christ. I know my place in the body of Christ and know my spiritual gifts, talents, and pounds and my call in Christ. Do you know yours? Because if you don't then you are not being led by the Spirit of Christ but the spirit belonging to you in which you lean upon your own understanding in the vanity of your mind and as a result believe in things that are unmoored from its true, biblical, and Hebrew roots. You practice a Gentile Christianity which is not the Christianity of the bible and history.
I am a Biblical Christian. That's the only kind in existence. If ones Christianity is not biblical, then it is NOT Christianity.
And that's the bottom line.

We will not engage further........
May the Lord be merciful to us both !

 

[jeremiah1five]

Indeed it is!

"live." This means obeying God's Torah which are instructional commands in how to treat God and how to treat brethren in covenant with God.
But being the covenants are made with the Hebrew people and not Gentiles just continue your disobedience to God's Torah.
It will be this very same Torah by which God judges the world.

Exactly as Abraham did, as stated in Genesis 15:6, and as is written in Habakkuk 2:4.
Indeed.
as is written,
Joh 15:12 WEB “This is my commandment, that you love one another, even as I have loved you.

Jesus also said, "If you love me obey my commandments (Torah.)"

Joh 15:12 WEB “This is my commandment, that you love one another, even as I have loved you.
Do you?
Because from what I've seen, you're a judaizer, trying to deceive people into believing that righteousness comes through adherence to the Law.

Acts is a history of approximately 30 years of the Jewish Church.
Let's say for the sake of argument the 28 chapters correspond to about 30 years (roughly one year per chapter) in the Acts and that chapter 21 is roughly twenty years after Jesus' ascension.

20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:
21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.
22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.
23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a [Mosaic] vow on them;
24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. Acts 21:20–24.

These were Jews. It was only a natural step to continue in the Law being their reception of a Jewish Messiah who did not come to destroy the Law nor change it. All the disciples continued in the things of the Law after they became born-again and saved. Did you think Jews that became born-again would live like Gentiles after meeting their Messiah, Redeemer, and King?
If you did your infection of Gentile heresy runs very deep.
Even at the Jerusalem Council which was officiated by Jews commanded uncircumcised, non-covenant Gentiles to obey four precepts of the Torah: "that ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication" (Acts 15:29.)

Do you eat meats offered to idols? (The stamp on meat products by the FDA qualifies as meats offered to idols. Just substitute U.S. with Romans and you should 'get it.')
Do you eat meat cooked medium rare with blood still in it?
Or things strangled?
Do you abstain from fornication?

Jesus directed and instructed the Jews He taught to continue in the Torah as did this council. But the ruling of the Jerusalem Council is what I call Torah 2.0.
15 years after ascension the Jewish leadership in Jerusalem not only continued to obey the Law/Torah but as you can see also instructed uncircumcised, non-covenant Gentiles to obey the Law/Torah. Although understanding the New Covenant took time these born-again Jewish Christians were not wrong in their obedience to the Law/Torah even after their conversion.

Peter attempted to exclude uncircumcised, non-covenant Gentiles from adherence to the Law/Torah...

10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? Acts 15:10.

But it was a serious Judaizer, James, the Lord's brother, who won the day and commanded that Gentiles only need to obey four aspects of the Law/Torah but not circumcision, which being Gentiles were not under the Abrahamic Covenant required to do as Gentiles were not the seed of Abraham nor in covenant with God:

19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. Acts 15:19–20.

22 Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church... Acts 15:22.

Do you?
Deuteronomy 6:4-8, Leviticus 19:18

Yes.

The one I like is....
Deu 30:6 WEBYahweh your God will circumcise your heart, and the heart of your offspring, to love Yahweh your God with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live.
So, the question is...
Is your heart circumcised?

The "heart" of every Jewish believer is circumcised upon their conversion as prophesied in their Scripture. But it isn't speaking of the proverbial heart organ that pumps blood. It is speaking about the life of a believer not the organ.

That's right! He came to fulfill it.
he says as much in Matthew 5.
my simplistic view?
nope.
Jesus actually said that.

But "fulfill" does not mean "abolish" or "end."

Mat 22:36-40 WEB 36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the law?” 37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 A second likewise is this, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 The whole law and the prophets depend on these two commandments.”

Do you know where the original command on love is found and to whom it is addressed?

It's really ironic because by loving YHVH, i get rid of all my idols.
didn't that happen for you?
YHVH said in Jeremiah 1:10, he'd root out, tear down pull down and destroy, then plant and build.
In Ezekiel 36:25-27, he said he'd cleanse us from our sin and idols, he'd remove the old stony heart of flesh, give us a new heart of flesh, a new spirit, and he'd place his Spirit in us, to cause us to live in agreement with his statutes and ordinances.
so, if your heart isn't circumcised, if he hasn't done what he says he will, you need to turn to YHVH from your sin and place your trust in Jesus so you can be born again, as Jesus said to Nicodemus.

You quote the Scripture as though these words were spoken/written to Gentiles.
They were ALL spoken/written to the Jewish people and you are not Jewish. These are promises given to the Jews.

Deuteronomy 6:4-8, Leviticus 19:18
The one I like is....
Deu 30:6 WEB Yahweh your God will circumcise your heart, and the heart of your offspring, to love Yahweh your God with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live.

Well, as Gentile you don't have to worry about this since God was speaking to His covenant people the twelve tribes of the children of Jacob/Israel and you are not Hebrew/Jewish.

So, the question is...
Is your heart circumcised?
Why, don't you know?
Jesus told us about the good Samaritan.

Everyone in the parable was in covenant with God: the priest, the Levite, and the "certain man" traveling from one Jewish town to another.

Then you should turn to YHVH from your sin and place your trust in Jesus.
already have.
Paul described it in Romans 8:4.
Nope.
You're thinking in circles. This is what's causing your inability to understand what I've been saying.
The stars part is verses 1-5.
The Word part is after the star part.

The whole Psalm 19 is speaking about the heavens. It is speaking about a Star-Bible which graphically portray the prophecies concerning Israel's Redeemer. It identifies "Mazzaroth" (Zodiac) and the constellations as well as the meanings of the names of the individual stars and heavenly objects in the heavens that prophesy Israel's Redeemer. It was this very knowledge God taught Adam (and Enoch knew Adam) who taught Enoch who through it was able to prophesy in Jude Christ's second coming before the first.

ironically, i never discussed Romans 6. You're going to have to learn to pay closer attention.
this further demonstrates your inability to focus clearly.
it's a good thing that Saul is dead, and it's now Paul is alive in Christ.
because Paul actually said that nobody can be made righteous by keeping the law.

Israel's Jewish Messiah will continue to call Saul by his Hebrew name and not his Romanized Gentile name.

Gal 2:21 WEB I don’t reject the grace of God. For if righteousness is through the law, then Christ died for nothing!”
Gal 2:21 WEB I don’t reject the grace of God. For if righteousness is through the law, then Christ died for nothing!”
It's a good thing that Paul says otherwise.

Rom 8:4-9 WEB 4 that the ordinance of the law might be fulfilled in us who don’t walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace; 7 because the mind of the flesh is hostile toward God, for it is not subject to God’s law, neither indeed can it be. 8 Those who are in the flesh can’t please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if it is so that the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if any man doesn’t have the Spirit of Christ, he is not his.

Interesting that Saul also says that through his obedience to the Law/Torah he was justified (blameless) and righteousness comes from the Law/Torah:

6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
Philippians 3:6.

But wait a minute. Saul's writings are supposed to be the inspired Word of God. How can such "inspiration" lead Saul to contradict himself and speak from both corners of his mouth?
You go ahead and dwell on that one for a minute and come back with the answer.

 

[SteveB]

"live." This means obeying God's Torah which are instructional commands in how to treat God and how to treat brethren in covenant with God.
But being the covenants are made with the Hebrew people and not Gentiles just continue your disobedience to God's Torah.
It will be this very same Torah by which God judges the world.

Jesus also said, "If you love me obey my commandments (Torah.)"

Acts is a history of approximately 30 years of the Jewish Church.
Let's say for the sake of argument the 28 chapters correspond to about 30 years (roughly one year per chapter) in the Acts and that chapter 21 is roughly twenty years after Jesus' ascension.

20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:
21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.
22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.
23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a [Mosaic] vow on them;
24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. Acts 21:20–24.

These were Jews. It was only a natural step to continue in the Law being their reception of a Jewish Messiah who did not come to destroy the Law nor change it. All the disciples continued in the things of the Law after they became born-again and saved. Did you think Jews that became born-again would live like Gentiles after meeting their Messiah, Redeemer, and King?
If you did your infection of Gentile heresy runs very deep.
Even at the Jerusalem Council which was officiated by Jews commanded uncircumcised, non-covenant Gentiles to obey four precepts of the Torah: "that ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication" (Acts 15:29.)

Do you eat meats offered to idols? (The stamp on meat products by the FDA qualifies as meats offered to idols. Just substitute U.S. with Romans and you should 'get it.')
Do you eat meat cooked medium rare with blood still in it?
Or things strangled?
Do you abstain from fornication?

Jesus directed and instructed the Jews He taught to continue in the Torah as did this council. But the ruling of the Jerusalem Council is what I call Torah 2.0.
15 years after ascension the Jewish leadership in Jerusalem not only continued to obey the Law/Torah but as you can see also instructed uncircumcised, non-covenant Gentiles to obey the Law/Torah. Although understanding the New Covenant took time these born-again Jewish Christians were not wrong in their obedience to the Law/Torah even after their conversion.

Peter attempted to exclude uncircumcised, non-covenant Gentiles from adherence to the Law/Torah...

10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? Acts 15:10.

But it was a serious Judaizer, James, the Lord's brother, who won the day and commanded that Gentiles only need to obey four aspects of the Law/Torah but not circumcision, which being Gentiles were not under the Abrahamic Covenant required to do as Gentiles were not the seed of Abraham nor in covenant with God:

19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. Acts 15:19–20.

22 Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church... Acts 15:22.

Yes.

The "heart" of every Jewish believer is circumcised upon their conversion as prophesied in their Scripture. But it isn't speaking of the proverbial heart organ that pumps blood. It is speaking about the life of a believer not the organ.

But "fulfill" does not mean "abolish" or "end."

Do you know where the original command on love is found and to whom it is addressed?

You quote the Scripture as though these words were spoken/written to Gentiles.
They were ALL spoken/written to the Jewish people and you are not Jewish. These are promises given to the Jews.

Well, as Gentile you don't have to worry about this since God was speaking to His covenant people the twelve tribes of the children of Jacob/Israel and you are not Hebrew/Jewish.

Everyone in the parable was in covenant with God: the priest, the Levite, and the "certain man" traveling from one Jewish town to another.

The whole Psalm 19 is speaking about the heavens. It is speaking about a Star-Bible which graphically portray the prophecies concerning Israel's Redeemer. It identifies "Mazzaroth" (Zodiac) and the constellations as well as the meanings of the names of the individual stars and heavenly objects in the heavens that prophesy Israel's Redeemer. It was this very knowledge God taught Adam (and Enoch knew Adam) who taught Enoch who through it was able to prophesy in Jude Christ's second coming before the first.

Israel's Jewish Messiah will continue to call Saul by his Hebrew name and not his Romanized Gentile name.


Interesting that Saul also says that through his obedience to the Law/Torah he was justified (blameless) and righteousness comes from the Law/Torah:

6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
Philippians 3:6.

But wait a minute. Saul's writings are supposed to be the inspired Word of God. How can such "inspiration" lead Saul to contradict himself and speak from both corners of his mouth?
You go ahead and dwell on that one for a minute and come back with the answer.

Curious thing about this...

Phi 3:1-16 WEB 1 Finally, my brothers, rejoice in the Lord! To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not tiresome, but for you it is safe. 2 Beware of the dogs; beware of the evil workers; beware of the false circumcision. 3 For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh; 4 though I myself might have confidence even in the flesh. If any other man thinks that he has confidence in the flesh, I yet more: 5 circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; concerning the law, a Pharisee; 6 concerning zeal, persecuting the assembly; concerning the righteousness which is in the law, found blameless. 7 However, I consider those things that were gain to me as a loss for Christ. 8 Yes most certainly, and I count all things to be a loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus, my Lord, for whom I suffered the loss of all things, and count them nothing but refuse, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own, that which is of the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith, 10 that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, becoming conformed to his death, 11 if by any means I may attain to the resurrection from the dead. 12 Not that I have already obtained, or am already made perfect; but I press on, that I may take hold of that for which also I was taken hold of by Christ Jesus. 13 Brothers, I don’t regard myself as yet having taken hold, but one thing I do: forgetting the things which are behind and stretching forward to the things which are before, 14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. 15 Let us therefore, as many as are perfect, think this way. If in anything you think otherwise, God will also reveal that to you. 16 Nevertheless, to the extent that we have already attained, let’s walk by the same rule. Let’s be of the same mind.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Curious thing about this...

Phi 3:1-16 WEB 1 Finally, my brothers, rejoice in the Lord! To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not tiresome, but for you it is safe. 2 Beware of the dogs; beware of the evil workers; beware of the false circumcision. 3 For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh; 4 though I myself might have confidence even in the flesh. If any other man thinks that he has confidence in the flesh, I yet more: 5 circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; concerning the law, a Pharisee; 6 concerning zeal, persecuting the assembly; concerning the righteousness which is in the law, found blameless. 7 However, I consider those things that were gain to me as a loss for Christ. 8 Yes most certainly, and I count all things to be a loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus, my Lord, for whom I suffered the loss of all things, and count them nothing but refuse, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own, that which is of the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith, 10 that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, becoming conformed to his death, 11 if by any means I may attain to the resurrection from the dead. 12 Not that I have already obtained, or am already made perfect; but I press on, that I may take hold of that for which also I was taken hold of by Christ Jesus. 13 Brothers, I don’t regard myself as yet having taken hold, but one thing I do: forgetting the things which are behind and stretching forward to the things which are before, 14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. 15 Let us therefore, as many as are perfect, think this way. If in anything you think otherwise, God will also reveal that to you. 16 Nevertheless, to the extent that we have already attained, let’s walk by the same rule. Let’s be of the same mind.

OK. And?

 

[SteveB]

OK. And?

So the obvious isn't obvious?

 

[jeremiah1five]

So the obvious isn't obvious?

OK. Let's start here.
You quote Philippians.

Do you agree with this statement?

Saul's letter is to the Jewish home churches in Philippi and he is writing to Jewish Christians, NOT Gentiles.

 

[SteveB]

OK. Let's start here.
You quote Philippians.

Do you agree with this statement?

Saul's letter is to the Jewish home churches in Philippi and he is writing to Jewish Christians, NOT Gentiles.

Saul died.
Paul was raised in Christ.
You really should read his letters.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Saul died.
Paul was raised in Christ.
You really should read his letters.

Answer my question.
Is the Philippian letter written to Jewish Christians at Philippi?

 

[SteveB]

Answer my question.
Is the Philippian letter written to Jewish Christians at Philippi?

Why?
You've made it quite clear you don't have to answer my questions.

Ciao!

 

[jeremiah1five]

Why?
You've made it quite clear you don't have to answer my questions.

Ciao!

I've answered. You refuse the believe the Scripture.

 

[SteveB]

I've answered. You refuse the believe the Scripture.

No. I actually refuse to believe you, explicitly because I know the scriptures.

 

[jeremiah1five]

No. I actually refuse to believe you, explicitly because I know the scriptures.

Being that I have said the same thing as God, and you'd rather hold to your Constantinian Gentile heresy on the subject, you're not rejecting me but God.
But don't worry. Many Gentiles do that.

 

[SteveB]

Being that I have said the same thing as God, and you'd rather hold to your Constantinian Gentile heresy on the subject, you're not rejecting me but God.

Well, first I know you haven't actually said the same thing as God.
Because I've never been involved in any Constantinian Gentile heresy.
so, strike one.
you my dear fellow human being are telling lies about people you don't even know.
strike two.
if you were telling me what YHVH says, you'd actually know I've never been in any Constantinian Gentile Heresy,and you'd be encouraging me to follow Jesus, not your pharisaical delusion.
thus, strike three.

But don't worry. Many Gentiles do that.

I wouldn't know.
I've never been in a position to know what many Gentiles do.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Well, first I know you haven't actually said the same thing as God.
Because I've never been involved in any Constantinian Gentile heresy.
so, strike one.
you my dear fellow human being are telling lies about people you don't even know.
strike two.
if you were telling me what YHVH says, you'd actually know I've never been in any Constantinian Gentile Heresy,and you'd be encouraging me to follow Jesus, not your pharisaical delusion.
thus, strike three.

I know because for a long time I too was deceived and deluded believing the things you do but thank God He opened my eyes, and I came out from among them and became separate

I wouldn't know.
I've never been in a position to know what many Gentiles do.

As above. I used to believe and say exactly the things I've read in your posts. All of it is a lie.
I began to see in Scripture a whole new ball game.
One in which salvation is of the Jews.
I know you know the passage where Jesus said this, but I also know that you have no real idea what it means.
Really.

 

[SteveB]

I know because for a long time I too was deceived and deluded believing the things you do but thank God He opened my eyes, and I came out from among them and became separate

If you trust in your ability to adhere to YHVH's Law to make you righteous, you ARE deceived.
What am I supposed to be separate from that you believe, but don't actually know, I am not separate from?

As above. I used to believe and say exactly the things I've read in your posts. All of it is a lie.

Yep. You're telling, and believing lies, trying to convince others to believe you.
I don't see any need to believe anything you say, because I already believe what YHVH says.

I began to see in Scripture a whole new ball game.

which is?

One in which salvation is of the Jews.

It's a good thing that Jesus said

Joh 4:22-26 WEB 22 You worship that which you don’t know. We worship that which we know; for salvation is from the Jews. 23 But the hour comes, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father seeks such to be his worshipers. 24 God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.” 25 The woman said to him, “I know that Messiah is coming, he who is called Christ. When he has come, he will declare to us all things.” 26 Jesus said to her, “I am he, the one who speaks to you.”

I know you know the passage where Jesus said this, but I also know that you have no real idea what it means.

And how would you know this?
because it's actually you who are guilty of it?
If I already actually know something, I couldn't know it unless I had been taught it by God, who is already making sure I understand exactly what he says.

Really.

Really what....?

 

[jeremiah1five]

If you trust in your ability to adhere to YHVH's Law to make you righteous, you ARE deceived.
What am I supposed to be separate from that you believe, but don't actually know, I am not separate from?

How do you understand the underlined:

6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
Philippians 3:6.

Yep. You're telling, and believing lies, trying to convince others to believe you.
I don't see any need to believe anything you say, because I already believe what YHVH says.
which is?
It's a good thing that Jesus said

Joh 4:22-26 WEB 22 You worship that which you don’t know. We worship that which we know; for salvation is from the Jews. 23 But the hour comes, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father seeks such to be his worshipers. 24 God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.” 25 The woman said to him, “I know that Messiah is coming, he who is called Christ. When he has come, he will declare to us all things.” 26 Jesus said to her, “I am he, the one who speaks to you.”

And how would you know this?
because it's actually you who are guilty of it?
If I already actually know something, I couldn't know it unless I had been taught it by God, who is already making sure I understand exactly what he says.
Really what....?

 

[SteveB]

How do you understand the underlined:

6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
Philippians 3:6.

By including the rest of the passage, giving context to the statement you're quoting.


Phi 3:1-15 WEB 1 Finally, my brothers, rejoice in the Lord! To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not tiresome, but for you it is safe. 2 Beware of the dogs; beware of the evil workers; beware of the false circumcision. 3 For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh; 4 though I myself might have confidence even in the flesh. If any other man thinks that he has confidence in the flesh, I yet more: 5 circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; concerning the law, a Pharisee; 6 concerning zeal, persecuting the assembly; concerning the righteousness which is in the law, found blameless. 7 However, I consider those things that were gain to me as a loss for Christ. 8 Yes most certainly, and I count all things to be a loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus, my Lord, for whom I suffered the loss of all things, and count them nothing but refuse, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own, that which is of the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith, 10 that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, becoming conformed to his death, 11 if by any means I may attain to the resurrection from the dead. 12 Not that I have already obtained, or am already made perfect; but I press on, that I may take hold of that for which also I was taken hold of by Christ Jesus. 13 Brothers, I don’t regard myself as yet having taken hold, but one thing I do: forgetting the things which are behind and stretching forward to the things which are before, 14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. 15 Let us therefore, as many as are perfect, think this way. If in anything you think otherwise, God will also reveal that to you.

Paul understood what Isaiah stated.

Isa 64:6 DRC And we are all become as one unclean, and all our justices as the rag of a menstruous woman: and we have all fallen as a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.


I.e., your righteousness is as a putrid menstrual rag.

2Co 2:14-16 WEB 14 Now thanks be to God who always leads us in triumph in Christ, and reveals through us the sweet aroma of his knowledge in every place. 15 For we are a sweet aroma of Christ to God in those who are saved and in those who perish: 16 to the one a stench from death to death, to the other a sweet aroma from life to life. Who is sufficient for these things?

Thankfully, the truth of Jesus is a sweet aroma to God.

Thus, I'll stick with the righteousness which God gives, in Christ.

As testified to in the law and prophets.

Which quotes in Romans 10, referencing Deuteronomy 30,

Rom 10:6-13 WEB 6 But the righteousness which is of faith says this, “Don’t say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ (that is, to bring Christ down); 7 or, ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead.)” 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart;” that is, the word of faith which we preach: 9 that if you will confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes resulting in righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in him will not be disappointed.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, and is rich to all who call on him. 13 For, “Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.”


Thankfully, YHVH has said he'll give us HIS Righteousness.

Isa 54:17 WEB No weapon that is formed against you will prevail; and you will condemn every tongue that rises against you in judgment. This is the heritage of Yahweh’s servants, and their righteousness is of me,” says Yahweh.

Jer 23:6 WEB In his days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell safely. This is his name by which he will be called: Yahweh our righteousness.

Psa 32:1-2 WEB 1 Blessed is he whose disobedience is forgiven, whose sin is covered. 2 Blessed is the man to whom Yahweh doesn’t impute iniquity, in whose spirit there is no deceit.

All of which Paul affirms in 2 Corinthians 5:21

2Co 5:21 WEB For him who knew no sin he made to be sin on our behalf, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

 

[jeremiah1five]

By including the rest of the passage, giving context to the statement you're quoting.


Phi 3:1-15 WEB 1 Finally, my brothers, rejoice in the Lord! To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not tiresome, but for you it is safe. 2 Beware of the dogs; beware of the evil workers; beware of the false circumcision. 3 For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh; 4 though I myself might have confidence even in the flesh. If any other man thinks that he has confidence in the flesh, I yet more: 5 circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; concerning the law, a Pharisee; 6 concerning zeal, persecuting the assembly; concerning the righteousness which is in the law, found blameless. 7 However, I consider those things that were gain to me as a loss for Christ. 8 Yes most certainly, and I count all things to be a loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus, my Lord, for whom I suffered the loss of all things, and count them nothing but refuse, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own, that which is of the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith, 10 that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, becoming conformed to his death, 11 if by any means I may attain to the resurrection from the dead. 12 Not that I have already obtained, or am already made perfect; but I press on, that I may take hold of that for which also I was taken hold of by Christ Jesus. 13 Brothers, I don’t regard myself as yet having taken hold, but one thing I do: forgetting the things which are behind and stretching forward to the things which are before, 14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. 15 Let us therefore, as many as are perfect, think this way. If in anything you think otherwise, God will also reveal that to you.

Paul understood what Isaiah stated.

Isa 64:6 DRC And we are all become as one unclean, and all our justices as the rag of a menstruous woman: and we have all fallen as a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.


I.e., your righteousness is as a putrid menstrual rag.

2Co 2:14-16 WEB 14 Now thanks be to God who always leads us in triumph in Christ, and reveals through us the sweet aroma of his knowledge in every place. 15 For we are a sweet aroma of Christ to God in those who are saved and in those who perish: 16 to the one a stench from death to death, to the other a sweet aroma from life to life. Who is sufficient for these things?

Thankfully, the truth of Jesus is a sweet aroma to God.

Thus, I'll stick with the righteousness which God gives, in Christ.

As testified to in the law and prophets.

Which quotes in Romans 10, referencing Deuteronomy 30,

Rom 10:6-13 WEB 6 But the righteousness which is of faith says this, “Don’t say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ (that is, to bring Christ down); 7 or, ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead.)” 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart;” that is, the word of faith which we preach: 9 that if you will confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes resulting in righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in him will not be disappointed.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, and is rich to all who call on him. 13 For, “Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.”


Thankfully, YHVH has said he'll give us HIS Righteousness.

Isa 54:17 WEB No weapon that is formed against you will prevail; and you will condemn every tongue that rises against you in judgment. This is the heritage of Yahweh’s servants, and their righteousness is of me,” says Yahweh.

Jer 23:6 WEB In his days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell safely. This is his name by which he will be called: Yahweh our righteousness.

Psa 32:1-2 WEB 1 Blessed is he whose disobedience is forgiven, whose sin is covered. 2 Blessed is the man to whom Yahweh doesn’t impute iniquity, in whose spirit there is no deceit.

All of which Paul affirms in 2 Corinthians 5:21

2Co 5:21 WEB For him who knew no sin he made to be sin on our behalf, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

Where do you think God's righteousness is recorded?
It is the Torah.
Although we could not attain this righteousness without being converted into a spiritual man the righteousness of God is recorded in the Torah in preparation for the Sinless One to fulfill and to then through imputation in our spiritual birth give us His Righteousness which is contained in the Torah and He take our sinful nature we were created with. You cannot treat the three salvation covenants as standalone. All three are three parts of the whole. What God began with Abraham He concluded with Moses. What He concluded with Moses God continued with His Son. All the New Covenant is mentioned in Jeremiah is the Mosaic Covenant completed. The Torah is reflective of the Person and Character of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is God's Torah (Torah-giver.) When one looks at the Torah they are seeing Jesus Christ. By separating God's Torah from Christ, or by saying God's Torah is "abolished" or "obsolete" what one is truly and stupidly saying is Jesus Christ is "abolished" and "obsolete." This is the spirit of antichrist, and the Gentile church has many antichrists that teach this heresy.
They don't understand that the Torah IS the Person and Character of Christ. He is the perfect Torah of liberty Saul mentions. Why do you think Saul directs us BACK to the Torah AFTER we are born-again?

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. 2 Tim. 3:16–17.

Why do you think Saul says righteousness is of the Law and that he was "blameless" in his strict adherence to the Torah. Even after he became born again, he continued to obey the Torah. Why would he do this if this Pharisee of Pharisees actually believed what ignorant, heretical Gentiles teach that the Torah is "abolished" or "obsolete"?

Look at what God says the Jewish Christians were doing after they became born-again:
Now pay attention. And if you're broke I'll lend you some.

17 And when we were come to Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly.
18 And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present.
19 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry.
20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:

They were the original 'Jesus Freaks" and "Holy-Rollers" and "Hallelujah's" for they were in Christ ZEALOUS of the Law.

21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.
22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.
23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;
24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. Acts 21:17–24.

If Saul in his letters or verbally ever taught "abolish" or "obsolete" of the Law he would never be able to step foot in the Temple of the local synagogues. He would have been outcast. But James the other Judaizer, and the rest of the Torah-keeping Jewish Christians obeyed the Torah and did so in a whole new way. Through the Holy Spirit of Promise. IF the Torah was "abolished" or "obsolete" as Gentiles teach today then true, Biblical Christianity, which is Completed Judaism, would have not been observed or practiced by the early Jewish Church. But what does God say?

Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law;

Thousands and thousands of born-again Jews obeying their Torah because it taught them the righteousness of God. They could now perfectly obey every precept and line that was the Torah without failure. As a matter of fact, the Torah is Christ in you. And Christ is the Torah in you. Both are joined in true, biblical Christianity, not this heretical, Constantinian Gentile theology that is being taught in Gentile churches today.

 

[SteveB]

Where do you think God's righteousness is recorded?
It is the Torah.
Although we could not attain this righteousness without being converted into a spiritual man the righteousness of God is recorded in the Torah in preparation for the Sinless One to fulfill and to then through imputation in our spiritual birth give us His Righteousness which is contained in the Torah and He take our sinful nature we were created with. You cannot treat the three salvation covenants as standalone. All three are three parts of the whole. What God began with Abraham He concluded with Moses. What He concluded with Moses God continued with His Son. All the New Covenant is mentioned in Jeremiah is the Mosaic Covenant completed. The Torah is reflective of the Person and Character of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is God's Torah (Torah-giver.) When one looks at the Torah they are seeing Jesus Christ. By separating God's Torah from Christ, or by saying God's Torah is "abolished" or "obsolete" what one is truly and stupidly saying is Jesus Christ is "abolished" and "obsolete." This is the spirit of antichrist, and the Gentile church has many antichrists that teach this heresy.
They don't understand that the Torah IS the Person and Character of Christ. He is the perfect Torah of liberty Saul mentions. Why do you think Saul directs us BACK to the Torah AFTER we are born-again?

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. 2 Tim. 3:16–17.

Why do you think Saul says righteousness is of the Law and that he was "blameless" in his strict adherence to the Torah. Even after he became born again, he continued to obey the Torah. Why would he do this if this Pharisee of Pharisees actually believed what ignorant, heretical Gentiles teach that the Torah is "abolished" or "obsolete"?

Look at what God says the Jewish Christians were doing after they became born-again:
Now pay attention. And if you're broke I'll lend you some.

17 And when we were come to Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly.
18 And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present.
19 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry.
20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:

They were the original 'Jesus Freaks" and "Holy-Rollers" and "Hallelujah's" for they were in Christ ZEALOUS of the Law.

21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.
22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.
23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;
24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. Acts 21:17–24.

If Saul in his letters or verbally ever taught "abolish" or "obsolete" of the Law he would never be able to step foot in the Temple of the local synagogues. He would have been outcast. But James the other Judaizer, and the rest of the Torah-keeping Jewish Christians obeyed the Torah and did so in a whole new way. Through the Holy Spirit of Promise. IF the Torah was "abolished" or "obsolete" as Gentiles teach today then true, Biblical Christianity, which is Completed Judaism, would have not been observed or practiced by the early Jewish Church. But what does God say?

Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law;

Thousands and thousands of born-again Jews obeying their Torah because it taught them the righteousness of God.

Good!
that means they're good Jewish people.
I'm not Jewish.
I'm a Gentile.
as the apostles said in Acts 15, i only need to abstain from sexual immorality, meats offered to idols, blood,

Act 15:20 WEB but that we write to them that they abstain from the pollution of idols, from sexual immorality, from what is strangled, and from blood.

They could now perfectly obey every precept and line that was the Torah without failure.

Good for them.
I'm not Jewish.
so the only part of the law that applies to Gentiles is the 10 commandments.
and according to Jesus, by keeping the two great commandments, I'm fulfilling all the others.

As a matter of fact, the Torah is Christ in you. And Christ is the Torah in you.

sounds like walking in the Spirit is then my joy as a follower of Jesus.

Both are joined in true, biblical Christianity, not this heretical, Constantinian Gentile theology that is being taught in Gentile churches today.

Yeah, you really are talking out your derriere.
I've never been in any Constantinian Gentile theology.