The Importance of The Law of Moses

[jeremiah1five]

Good!
that means they're good Jewish people.
I'm not Jewish.
I'm a Gentile.
as the apostles said in Acts 15, i only need to abstain from sexual immorality, meats offered to idols, blood,

Act 15:20 WEB but that we write to them that they abstain from the pollution of idols, from sexual immorality, from what is strangled, and from blood.




Good for them.
I'm not Jewish.
so the only part of the law that applies to Gentiles is the 10 commandments.
and according to Jesus, by keeping the two great commandments, I'm fulfilling all the others.

sounds like walking in the Spirit is then my joy as a follower of Jesus.

Yeah, you really are talking out your derriere.
I've never been in any Constantinian Gentile theology.

That's the deception concisely, saying you've not been in any Constantinian Gentile theology. Gentile theology is full of heresy, and I point it out as I see it. 1900 years of false doctrine that excludes Christ. Once the Gentiles unmoored true, biblical Christianity from its Hebrew roots back in the decades that followed the destruction of the Jewish Temple Gentiles had this arrogance and ignorance about Christianity that they made things up as they moved along.

And you should know that there is no one good.
But God.

 

[SteveB]

That's the deception concisely, saying you've not been in any Constantinian Gentile theology. Gentile theology is full of heresy, and I point it out as I see it. 1900 years of false doctrine that excludes Christ. Once the Gentiles unmoored true, biblical Christianity from its Hebrew roots back in the decades that followed the destruction of the Jewish Temple Gentiles had this arrogance and ignorance about Christianity that they made things up as they moved along.

And you should know that there is no one good.
But God.

I've said this before, you're clearly more righteous on your own merit than I could possibly imagine.
So you'll be in your own heaven.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I've said this before, you're clearly more righteous on your own merit than I could possibly imagine.
So you'll be in your own heaven.

I used to read and study all the great names in Christendom. Augustine, Owens, Martin Luther, some Calvin, Vos, Edwards, Hodge, the other Hodge, the Puritans, MacArthur (who is antichrist), I've read them all but God opened my eyes, and I began to see that things I've read had one problem. They all exclude the Hebrews/Jews from their own covenants and prophecies and have taken over everything that was Jewish and made it Gentile. I came out from among them and became separated.

I also read through the bible the end of so-called Christian Gentiles.
When that is finished there will only be the Jews.

 

[SteveB]

I used to read and study all the great names in Christendom. Augustine, Owens, Martin Luther, some Calvin, Vos, Edwards, Hodge, the other Hodge, the Puritans, MacArthur (who is antichrist), I've read them all but God opened my eyes, and I began to see that things I've read had one problem. They all exclude the Hebrews/Jews from their own covenants and prophecies and have taken over everything that was Jewish and made it Gentile. I came out from among them and became separated.

Good for you this just tells me the level of your superiority.

I also read through the bible the end of so-called Christian Gentiles.
When that is finished there will only be the Jews.

Then I'd say you'll definitely have your own paradise.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Good for you this just tells me the level of your superiority.

Compliments will get you nowhere.

Then I'd say you'll definitely have your own paradise.

Nah. Being hid in Christ. Now that's the place to be.
Too bad Gentiles won't make the cut at the end.
There's no joy in Mudville.

 

[SteveB]

Compliments will get you nowhere.

Actually, they're intended to end your rants about how great you are and how you don't need Jesus, because you adhere to the law, without any help from YHVH.

Nah. Being hid in Christ. Now that's the place to be.

Which is curious, because that's where I've been since June 27, 1977.

Too bad Gentiles won't make the cut at the end.
There's no joy in Mudville.

Thankfully, Jesus said otherwise.

Isa 49:6 WEB Indeed, he says, “It is too light a thing that you should be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel. I will also give you as a light to the nations, that you may be my salvation to the end of the earth.”

Joh 3:16-21 WEB 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only born Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God didn’t send his Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through him. 18 He who believes in him is not judged. He who doesn’t believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only born Son of God. 19 This is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light, for their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the light and doesn’t come to the light, lest his works would be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his works may be revealed, that they have been done in God.”

 

[jeremiah1five]

Actually, they're intended to end your rants about how great you are and how you don't need Jesus,

Now, have I ever said that or are you just a false accuser?
Bring your proof I said such a thing or recant.

because you adhere to the law, without any help from YHVH.

Before God I am perfect. I have fulfilled every precept and line and command in the Torah. But I didn't do it, Jesus did, and through His taking my sin nature and imputing His righteous nature God sees me as "Not Guilty!" And now I am perfect before God, and I have obeyed every precept, line and command of His Torah. Those that don't, or believe His Torah is "abolished" or "obsolete" are cursed and will be destroyed.

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. n 14:15.

If anyone does not obey His Torah, they show they don't love Christ.

It's that simple.

Which is curious, because that's where I've been since June 27, 1977.
Thankfully, Jesus said otherwise.

Oh, no, according to the Scripture Gentiles that survived Armageddon will occupy the land surrounding the enlarged Israel and God Himself will cleanse the Promised Land of all Gentiles and there will be no Gentile in the Promised Land. Gentiles will occupy the land surrounding Israel. And before the one thousand years have finished Satan is released and will gather all nations against Israel for one final push against God's people. But fire comes down from heaven and consumes them all. Where are Gentile Christians? living in the land surrounding Israel.

Isa 49:6 WEB Indeed, he says, “It is too light a thing that you should be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel. I will also give you as a light to the nations, that you may be my salvation to the end of the earth.”

Joh 3:16-21 WEB 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only born Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God didn’t send his Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through him. 18 He who believes in him is not judged. He who doesn’t believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only born Son of God. 19 This is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light, for their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the light and doesn’t come to the light, lest his works would be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his works may be revealed, that they have been done in God.”

OK. What are you trying to say with these two Scriptures?

 

[SteveB]

Now, have I ever said that or are you just a false accuser?
Bring your proof I said such a thing or recant.

No need to recant.
Your proof is in the body of your posts.

Before God I am perfect. I have fulfilled every precept and line and command in the Torah.

All 613 commandments?
now i am impressed.
I'd further suggest that you are a liar.
there's no Temple in Jerusalem, so you can't have done so.
I'd further say, that based on your name, you're not a woman, so there are a few dozen more you could not have fulfilled.
Then we have what James wrote regarding the Law in James 2

Jas 2:9-13 WEB 9 But if you show partiality, you commit sin, being convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law, and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all. 11 For he who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not commit murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery but do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as men who are to be judged by the law of freedom. 13 For judgment is without mercy to him who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment.

Just a single violation, at one instant in time, and we become guilty of having violated the whole law.


It's written in the law,
He that does them will live by them.

Lev 18:5 WEB You shall therefore keep my statutes and my ordinances, which if a man does, he shall live in them. I am Yahweh.

Gal 3:12 WEB The law is not of faith, but, “The man who does them will live by them.”

So, if you have actually kept the whole law, you don't need Jesus.

Jesus is for those who have broken the law, and recognize they've broken the law.
As he said, I have come to call sinners to repentance, the righteous need no repentance.

But I didn't do it, Jesus did, and through His taking my sin nature and imputing His righteous nature God sees me as "Not Guilty!" And now I am perfect before God, and I have obeyed every precept, line and command of His Torah. Those that don't, or believe His Torah is "abolished" or "obsolete" are cursed and will be destroyed.

You sound confused about the nature of perfect obedience to the Law.

15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. n 14:15.

If anyone does not obey His Torah, they show they don't love Christ.

The curious thing is... Jesus said that his commandment is that we love one another.

Joh 13:34-35 WEB 34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”

Joh 15:12-17 WEB 12 “This is my commandment, that you love one another, even as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends. 14 You are my friends if you do whatever I command you. 15 No longer do I call you servants, for the servant doesn’t know what his lord does. But I have called you friends, for everything that I heard from my Father, I have made known to you. 16 You didn’t choose me, but I chose you and appointed you, that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain; that whatever you will ask of the Father in my name, he may give it to you. 17 “I command these things to you, that you may love one another.
thus, as he said in Matthew 22:37-40,
Mat 22:37-40 WEB 37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 A second likewise is this, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 The whole law and the prophets depend on these two commandments.”
All the law, and all the prophets are fulfilled by Loving YHVH and our neighbors.
Paul further iterates this in Romans 13:8-10.
Rom 13:8-10 WEB 8 Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other commandments there are, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love doesn’t harm a neighbor. Love therefore is the fulfillment of the law.

we who love satisfy the law.

It's that simple.

I thought so, but you keep describing something that isn't described in the law of Christ.

Oh, no, according to the Scripture Gentiles that survived Armageddon will occupy the land surrounding the enlarged Israel and God Himself will cleanse the Promised Land of all Gentiles and there will be no Gentile in the Promised Land. Gentiles will occupy the land surrounding Israel. And before the one thousand years have finished Satan is released and will gather all nations against Israel for one final push against God's people. But fire comes down from heaven and consumes them all. Where are Gentile Christians? living in the land surrounding Israel.

you sound like you're saying that the Gentiles are the fuel for the lake of fire.

OK. What are you trying to say with these two Scriptures?

I thought you knew everything.
If you don't grasp the basics, then I'm not sure what you expect me to tell you.

The two verses are quite clear.

Jesus is the light to the Gentiles.
YHVH loved the world (every single human being, Gentiles included), and saves everyone who believes in Jesus.... Gentiles included.

 

[jeremiah1five]

No need to recant.
Your proof is in the body of your posts.
All 613 commandments?
now i am impressed.
I'd further suggest that you are a liar.
there's no Temple in Jerusalem, so you can't have done so.
I'd further say, that based on your name, you're not a woman, so there are a few dozen more you could not have fulfilled.
Then we have what James wrote regarding the Law in James 2

By your reply I can see you do not understand the purpose of the Law and its place in true, biblical Christianity.

Jas 2:9-13 WEB 9 But if you show partiality, you commit sin, being convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law, and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all. 11 For he who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not commit murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery but do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as men who are to be judged by the law of freedom. 13 For judgment is without mercy to him who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment.

Just a single violation, at one instant in time, and we become guilty of having violated the whole law.

But I have, like Jesus, fulfilled every precept and line in the Torah of God.
Because you don't understand in what way I've obeyed every precept and line in the Torah does not make me wrong.

It's written in the law,
He that does them will live by them.
Lev 18:5 WEB You shall therefore keep my statutes and my ordinances, which if a man does, he shall live in them. I am Yahweh.

And that's exactly what I do.

Gal 3:12 WEB The law is not of faith, but, “The man who does them will live by them.”
So, if you have actually kept the whole law, you don't need Jesus.

It is through Jesus Christ that I have obeyed every precept and line if God's Torah.

Jesus is for those who have broken the law, and recognize they've broken the law.
As he said, I have come to call sinners to repentance, the righteous need no repentance.
You sound confused about the nature of perfect obedience to the Law.
The curious thing is... Jesus said that his commandment is that we love one another.

Joh 13:34-35 WEB 34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”

Yes, Jesus gave these commands to His people the twelve tribes of Israel.
Which tribe are you from?

Joh 15:12-17 WEB 12 “This is my commandment, that you love one another, even as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends. 14 You are my friends if you do whatever I command you. 15 No longer do I call you servants, for the servant doesn’t know what his lord does. But I have called you friends, for everything that I heard from my Father, I have made known to you. 16 You didn’t choose me, but I chose you and appointed you, that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain; that whatever you will ask of the Father in my name, he may give it to you. 17 “I command these things to you, that you may love one another.
thus, as he said in Matthew 22:37-40,
Mat 22:37-40 WEB 37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 A second likewise is this, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 The whole law and the prophets depend on these two commandments.”
All the law, and all the prophets are fulfilled by Loving YHVH and our neighbors.
Paul further iterates this in Romans 13:8-10.

Yes, those commands were given to the children of Israel. Which tribe are you from?

Rom 13:8-10 WEB 8 Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. 9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other commandments there are, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love doesn’t harm a neighbor. Love therefore is the fulfillment of the law.
we who love satisfy the law.

I doubt that.
God gave command to the children of Israel to love only Israel. Buit I would bet that you disobey God's command and extend His holy love to unholy people and cast your pearls to swine.

I thought so, but you keep describing something that isn't described in the law of Christ.
you sound like you're saying that the Gentiles are the fuel for the lake of fire.

No, its occupants.

I thought you knew everything.
If you don't grasp the basics, then I'm not sure what you expect me to tell you.
The two verses are quite clear.
Jesus is the light to the Gentiles.
YHVH loved the world (every single human being, Gentiles included), and saves everyone who believes in Jesus.... Gentiles included.

If Jesus loved everybody then you teach God gives that which is holy to dogs and God casts His pearls to swine, something He commanded never to be done.

 

[SteveB]

By your reply I can see you do not understand the purpose of the Law and its place in true, biblical Christianity.

Rather convenient.
I'd say that you have forsaken the greatest commandment.

But I have, like Jesus, fulfilled every precept and line in the Torah of God.
Because you don't understand in what way I've obeyed every precept and line in the Torah does not make me wrong.

And that's exactly what I do.

Good for you.
Everyone should be singing your praises then.
including Paul.

It is through Jesus Christ that I have obeyed every precept and line if God's Torah.

amd what makes you think that everyone who trusts in Jesus hasn't done the same?
Especially when it's written

Rom 8:4-9 WEB 4 that the ordinance of the law might be fulfilled in us who don’t walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace; 7 because the mind of the flesh is hostile toward God, for it is not subject to God’s law, neither indeed can it be. 8 Those who are in the flesh can’t please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if it is so that the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if any man doesn’t have the Spirit of Christ, he is not his.

All one needs is to have the Spirit of God dwelling in them, and focus their thoughts on spiritual things and they're walking in the Spirit, and according to

Phi 4:8-9 WEB 8 Finally, brothers, whatever things are true, whatever things are honorable, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report: if there is any virtue and if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things. 9 Do the things which you learned, received, heard, and saw in me, and the God of peace will be with you.

And God Himself dwells with them.

Yes, Jesus gave these commands to His people the twelve tribes of Israel.
Which tribe are you from?

Gentile.
Probably Jephthah.

Yes, those commands were given to the children of Israel. Which tribe are you from?

Gentile.
Probably Jephthah.
Definitely Noah.

I doubt that.
God gave command to the children of Israel to love only Israel. Buit I would bet that you disobey God's command and extend His holy love to unholy people and cast your pearls to swine.

Yeah, strange thing about being obedient to the command of Jesus to make disciples of all the nations, teaching them to follow him.
Apparently, by obeying Jesus, I'm disobeying you.

No, its occupants.

So Gentiles who trust in Jesus will be the occupants of the lake of fire?
Sounds like you're saying that Jesus is a liar then.
explicitly because he stated,

Joh 3:16-21 WEB 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only born Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God didn’t send his Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through him. 18 He who believes in him is not judged. He who doesn’t believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only born Son of God. 19 This is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light, for their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the light and doesn’t come to the light, lest his works would be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his works may be revealed, that they have been done in God.”

If Jesus loved everybody then you teach God gives that which is holy to dogs and God casts His pearls to swine, something He commanded never to be done.

Terrifying concept.

Joh 3:16-21 WEB 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only born Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God didn’t send his Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through him. 18 He who believes in him is not judged. He who doesn’t believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only born Son of God. 19 This is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light, for their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the light and doesn’t come to the light, lest his works would be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his works may be revealed, that they have been done in God.”

I'll stick with the "For God so loved the world..." passage that Jesus said.

 

[jeremiah1five]

@SteveB
As I said, you do not understand the purpose of the Hebrew Scripture of Law, Psalms, and Prophets.
Salvation is of the Jews.
There is NOTHING in the bible that salvation is of the Gentiles.
Nothing.

 

[SteveB]

@SteveB
As I said, you do not understand the purpose of the Hebrew Scripture of Law, Psalms, and Prophets.
Salvation is of the Jews.
There is NOTHING in the bible that salvation is of the Gentiles.
Nothing.

Never actually said that salvation was of the Gentiles.
That's you.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Never actually said that salvation was of the Gentiles.
That's you.

Are there any non-Hebrew Gentiles saved?

 

[SteveB]

Are there any non-Hebrew Gentiles saved?

Wow.

Didn't you get the memo?

No Hebrew people are Gentile.
Nor are there any Gentiles who are Hebrew.

As far as salvation from sin goes, as a matter of fact, Jesus is the Savior of the entire human race.

Or did you miss that memo too?

Rom 15:12 WEB Again, Isaiah says, “There will be the root of Jesse, he who arises to rule over the Gentiles; in him the Gentiles will hope.”

Gal 3:28 WEB There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Eph 2:11-19 WEB 11 Therefore remember that once you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “uncircumcision” by that which is called “circumcision” (in the flesh, made by hands), 12 that you were at that time separate from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of the promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off are made near in the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who made both one, and broke down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in his flesh the hostility, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man of the two, making peace, 16 and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, having killed the hostility through it. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far off and to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 So then you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and of the household of God,

 

[jeremiah1five]

Wow.

Didn't you get the memo?

No Hebrew people are Gentile.
Nor are there any Gentiles who are Hebrew.

As far as salvation from sin goes, as a matter of fact, Jesus is the Savior of the entire human race.

There you go. Just as I originally said. You do believe salvation is of the Gentiles.
But let me ask you this. You do understand Jesus saying, "Scripture cannot be broken"?
I'll presume you do know what it means in which what is said and written by God in the Law, Psalms, and Prophets (Hebrew Scripture. That thing Saul said in 2 Tim. 3:16-17 was for doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness, right?) So, what is written cannot be changed, added to, subtracted from, right?
Well, we know Jesus fulfilled the Law. He was God's substitute for the animal sacrifice He commanded Moses to instruct the high priest in with regards to the Ceremonial Law and the offering of sacrifice, right? We also know that the children of Israel were under the Law, right? That non-Hebrew Gentiles were never included in the Law of Moses which God covenanted with the children of Israel who were the seed of Abraham through Jacob and Isaac, right?
We also know that the animal was the sin offering for the children of Israel, right? So, if God sent His Son as substitute for the animal which was sacrificed for the sins of the children of Israel at the time of the Passover which Jesus was sent at this exact time of the Jewish Passover when He was betrayed and was condemned to death and raised up on a couple of pieces of wood and offered by God whose determinate will oversaw everything that happened that night with Jesus trial and eventual crucifixion and as substitute for the animal, Jesus died in accordance with the Law - especially the Ceremonial Law - then this means that in fulfilling the Law Jesus died just as the animal died to atone for the sins of the children of Israel, then how say you that Jesus Christ died for ALL mankind???
Did they sacrifice animals under the Law of Moses for ALL mankind? Or was the sacrifice particular to those under the Law which people were the children of Israel? Where are the passages of Scripture that animal sacrifices were made for ALL mankind? I don't see any such verses in the bible the animal sacrifice was for ALL mankind, do you?
No, there are none, and that is because the animal sacrifices were made for the sins of the children of Israel and the term was for one year until the next Passover which the animal again would be sacrificed for the children of Israel every year continually until at the appointed time, God sent His Son made under the Law, made of a woman to redeem those under the Law which people are the children of Israel, NOT ALL MANKIND.
So, if the animal sacrifice was to atone yearly for the sins of the children of Israel, and God sent His Son as substitute for the animal sacrifice to atone for the sins of the children of Israel finally and forever, and Jesus fulfilled the Law, then how say you that Jesus died for all mankind? That would be breaking Scripture to accept something not in Scripture and it would violate the very Scripture upon which God deemed the sacrifice of His Son in place of the animal to die for the sins of the children of Israel who have covenant with God for this very reason.
If Jesus died for "all mankind" as you say, then this violates and breaks Scripture, the very Scripture Jesus said CANNOT be broken.
So, I ask you now and again...did Jesus die for ALL mankind?
Because if He did then this breaks Scripture, and someone needs to tell the rich man he is in the wrong place if Jesus died for ALL mankind.

No, Steve, Jesus DIDN'T die for all mankind. He died for those under the Law and those under the Law are the children of Israel ONLY.

Or did you miss that memo too?

Rom 15:12 WEB Again, Isaiah says, “There will be the root of Jesse, he who arises to rule over the Gentiles; in him the Gentiles will hope.”

Gal 3:28 WEB There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Eph 2:11-19 WEB 11 Therefore remember that once you, the Gentiles in the flesh, who are called “uncircumcision” by that which is called “circumcision” (in the flesh, made by hands), 12 that you were at that time separate from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of the promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off are made near in the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who made both one, and broke down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in his flesh the hostility, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man of the two, making peace, 16 and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, having killed the hostility through it. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far off and to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 So then you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and of the household of God,

Great. Now show me in the Law, Psalms, and the Prophets - the Hebrew Scripture - in the places the Abraham Covenant, Mosaic Covenant, and the New Covenant (Jer. 31:31-34) when and where these covenants were made that God mentions, names, or included non-Hebrew Gentiles in these covenants.
The Abraham Covenant in Genesis 15 and 17 is between God, Abram the Hebrew, and with his seed.
The Mosaic Covenant is between God and the children of Abraham in the desert at the time of the Tabernacle (Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy) all declare over and again this covenant given to them of Moses from the God of Abraham is between God and the children of Abraham and not with any non-Hebrew Gentile.
And the New Covenant described by Jeremiah in 31:31-34 is between God, the northern House of Israel and the southern House of Judah - all twelve tribes of Jacob who was a son of Isaac who was a son of Abraham - and there are no non-Hebrew Gentiles name, mentioned, or included in this covenant.
So, are you going to break Scripture and violate God's Word by adding non-Hebrew Gentiles into the Mosaic Covenant?
Oh, and by the way...Galatians 3:29 Saul is writing to those under the Law, under a schoolmaster, NOT non-Hebrew Gentiles. If you read Saul's words in the correct context of who Saul was addressing, then maybe you will come to the knowledge of the truth for Saul was addressing Jewish Christians who were concerned about their standing in the Abraham Covenant now that they were followers of Jesus and not Moses, so Saul says those things - probably to the religious class of Jews because Saul mentions the prayerful belief of the Sanhedrin when their prayer to God that they thanked God they were not born a Gentile, or a woman, or a slave. Saul destroys that theology by saying "there is neither "Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise."

That is the meaning of Gal. 3:28-29. Otherwise, to read it to include non-Hebrew Gentiles in the Abraham Covenant then please provide the Scripture that cannot be broken where non-Hebrew Gentiles are in the Abraham Covenant when God made the covenant with Abram the Hebrew and with Isaac his seed in Genesis 17.
Go ahead and post the Scripture in Genesis that supports your statement that non-Hebrew Gentiles are in the Abraham Covenant.
Go ahead. Post it.

 

[SteveB]

There you go. Just as I originally said. You do believe salvation is of the Gentiles.
But let me ask you this. You do understand Jesus saying, "Scripture cannot be broken"?
I'll presume you do know what it means in which what is said and written by God in the Law, Psalms, and Prophets (Hebrew Scripture. That thing Saul said in 2 Tim. 3:16-17 was for doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness, right?) So, what is written cannot be changed, added to, subtracted from, right?
Well, we know Jesus fulfilled the Law. He was God's substitute for the animal sacrifice He commanded Moses to instruct the high priest in with regards to the Ceremonial Law and the offering of sacrifice, right? We also know that the children of Israel were under the Law, right? That non-Hebrew Gentiles were never included in the Law of Moses which God covenanted with the children of Israel who were the seed of Abraham through Jacob and Isaac, right?
We also know that the animal was the sin offering for the children of Israel, right? So, if God sent His Son as substitute for the animal which was sacrificed for the sins of the children of Israel at the time of the Passover which Jesus was sent at this exact time of the Jewish Passover when He was betrayed and was condemned to death and raised up on a couple of pieces of wood and offered by God whose determinate will oversaw everything that happened that night with Jesus trial and eventual crucifixion and as substitute for the animal, Jesus died in accordance with the Law - especially the Ceremonial Law - then this means that in fulfilling the Law Jesus died just as the animal died to atone for the sins of the children of Israel, then how say you that Jesus Christ died for ALL mankind???
Did they sacrifice animals under the Law of Moses for ALL mankind? Or was the sacrifice particular to those under the Law which people were the children of Israel? Where are the passages of Scripture that animal sacrifices were made for ALL mankind? I don't see any such verses in the bible the animal sacrifice was for ALL mankind, do you?
No, there are none, and that is because the animal sacrifices were made for the sins of the children of Israel and the term was for one year until the next Passover which the animal again would be sacrificed for the children of Israel every year continually until at the appointed time, God sent His Son made under the Law, made of a woman to redeem those under the Law which people are the children of Israel, NOT ALL MANKIND.
So, if the animal sacrifice was to atone yearly for the sins of the children of Israel, and God sent His Son as substitute for the animal sacrifice to atone for the sins of the children of Israel finally and forever, and Jesus fulfilled the Law, then how say you that Jesus died for all mankind? That would be breaking Scripture to accept something not in Scripture and it would violate the very Scripture upon which God deemed the sacrifice of His Son in place of the animal to die for the sins of the children of Israel who have covenant with God for this very reason.
If Jesus died for "all mankind" as you say, then this violates and breaks Scripture, the very Scripture Jesus said CANNOT be broken.
So, I ask you now and again...did Jesus die for ALL mankind?
Because if He did then this breaks Scripture, and someone needs to tell the rich man he is in the wrong place if Jesus died for ALL mankind.

No, Steve, Jesus DIDN'T die for all mankind. He died for those under the Law and those under the Law are the children of Israel ONLY.


Great. Now show me in the Law, Psalms, and the Prophets - the Hebrew Scripture - in the places the Abraham Covenant, Mosaic Covenant, and the New Covenant (Jer. 31:31-34) when and where these covenants were made that God mentions, names, or included non-Hebrew Gentiles in these covenants.
The Abraham Covenant in Genesis 15 and 17 is between God, Abram the Hebrew, and with his seed.
The Mosaic Covenant is between God and the children of Abraham in the desert at the time of the Tabernacle (Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy) all declare over and again this covenant given to them of Moses from the God of Abraham is between God and the children of Abraham and not with any non-Hebrew Gentile.
And the New Covenant described by Jeremiah in 31:31-34 is between God, the northern House of Israel and the southern House of Judah - all twelve tribes of Jacob who was a son of Isaac who was a son of Abraham - and there are no non-Hebrew Gentiles name, mentioned, or included in this covenant.
So, are you going to break Scripture and violate God's Word by adding non-Hebrew Gentiles into the Mosaic Covenant?
Oh, and by the way...Galatians 3:29 Saul is writing to those under the Law, under a schoolmaster, NOT non-Hebrew Gentiles. If you read Saul's words in the correct context of who Saul was addressing, then maybe you will come to the knowledge of the truth for Saul was addressing Jewish Christians who were concerned about their standing in the Abraham Covenant now that they were followers of Jesus and not Moses, so Saul says those things - probably to the religious class of Jews because Saul mentions the prayerful belief of the Sanhedrin when their prayer to God that they thanked God they were not born a Gentile, or a woman, or a slave. Saul destroys that theology by saying "there is neither "Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise."

That is the meaning of Gal. 3:28-29. Otherwise, to read it to include non-Hebrew Gentiles in the Abraham Covenant then please provide the Scripture that cannot be broken where non-Hebrew Gentiles are in the Abraham Covenant when God made the covenant with Abram the Hebrew and with Isaac his seed in Genesis 17.
Go ahead and post the Scripture in Genesis that supports your statement that non-Hebrew Gentiles are in the Abraham Covenant.
Go ahead. Post it.

Gen 12:3 WEB I will bless those who bless you, and I will curse him who treats you with contempt. All the families of the earth will be blessed through you.”

Not really sure why you keep missing the memos.
They were published thousands of years ago.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Gen 12:3 WEB I will bless those who bless you, and I will curse him who treats you with contempt. All the families of the earth will be blessed through you.”

Not really sure why you keep missing the memos.
They were published thousands of years ago.

The covenant is between God, Abraham, and Abraham's seed. And as we know the Promises went through to Isaac and then Jacob and then to Jacob's seed.
Remember, God had Ishmael who also had twelve sons whose descendants were identified as "nations" and "kings." And Isaac had two sons - Esau and Jacob, but though the Promises were inherited by Jacob, Esau was greatly blessed by God, and they also had great descendants of whom "nations" and "kings" did come "out of thee" (Abraham Gen. 17:6 -

6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
Gen. 17:6.

The key to understanding this verse is that these "nations" and "kings" would "COME OUT OF THEE" (Abraham.)
Gentiles do not come out of Abraham.

 

[SteveB]

The covenant is between God, Abraham, and Abraham's seed. And as we know the Promises went through to Isaac and then Jacob and then to Jacob's seed.
Remember, God had Ishmael who also had twelve sons whose descendants were identified as "nations" and "kings." And Isaac had two sons - Esau and Jacob, but though the Promises were inherited by Jacob, Esau was greatly blessed by God, and they also had great descendants of whom "nations" and "kings" did come "out of thee" (Abraham Gen. 17:6 -

6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
Gen. 17:6.

The key to understanding this verse is that these "nations" and "kings" would "COME OUT OF THEE" (Abraham.)
Gentiles do not come out of Abraham.

Sounds like you're confused about how reality works.


I never said anything about Gentiles coming out of Abraham.

Your question was quite explicit.

Go ahead and post the Scripture in Genesis that supports your statement that non-Hebrew Gentiles are in the Abraham Covenant.

Which I did.
All the families of the earth will be blessed through Abraham.


Gen 12:3 WEB I will bless those who bless you, and I will curse him who treats you with contempt. All the families of the earth will be blessed through you.”


You should stop jumping over yourself.
You clearly do not do well at leapfrogging yourself.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Sounds like you're confused about how reality works.
I never said anything about Gentiles coming out of Abraham.

You are still saying non-Hebrew Gentiles are in the Abraham Covenant but there's no such covenant God made with non-Hebrew Gentiles. None at all. So, your belief breaks with Scripture and violates the Word of God because whether non-Hebrew Gentiles came out of Abraham which is not true, or they came out of Ham and Japheth, you are still breaking with Scripture for there is no covenant in Scripture by which non-Hebrew Gentiles are saved.

Now, I know of Scripture that says God has covenant with Abram the Hebrew and his seed and later the Mosaic Covenant again with Abraham's seed, but there is nothing in Scripture in which non-Hebrew Gentiles are in any of the three Hebrew salvation covenants through which non-Hebrew Gentiles are saved. None at all. So, you're really violating the Scripture to believe such lies but then again, that's on you. I take Scripture as written, and you add to the Bible.

Your question was quite explicit.

Go ahead and post the Scripture in Genesis that supports your statement that non-Hebrew Gentiles are in the Abraham Covenant.

Which I did.
All the families of the earth will be blessed through Abraham.

Can't you read? Anyone who is blessed would have to be the seed of Abraham for several reasons. One is that Scripture says so. Another is "earth" refers to Israel, not the planet. Abraham had Ishmael and Isaac had Esau, and both are the families along with the Hebrew families that receive the blessings of Abraham only because of God's Promises that his seed would be as the stars in heaven and the sand on the seashore. God NEVER promised anything to non-Hebrew Gentiles. As a matter of biblical fact, here is a passage that reveals God's attitude towards non-Hebrew Gentiles. God does not change. He is Immutable. So, what He said about Gentiles back then is also the same attitude He has towards them today.

17 All nations before him are as nothing;
And they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity.
Isaiah 40:17.

The Word of God.

Gen 12:3 WEB I will bless those who bless you, and I will curse him who treats you with contempt. All the families of the earth will be blessed through you.”


You should stop jumping over yourself.
You clearly do not do well at leapfrogging yourself.

All of HIS families. They are the people that have inherited Abraham's Promises as it says in Genesis 15 and 17.

But if you want to break Scripture, then join the rest of Gentiles who do not take God's Word as written and like to manipulate it to their own hurt.

God made no covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles. None. They are outside the covenant of God and God's judgment is against them. When Christ returns, He comes to fight alongside Israel against Gentiles and guess who wins and what happens to Gentiles at the end? Revelation 20:7-10. Be prepared. It does not end well for Gentiles in that Day.

 

[SteveB]

You are still saying non-Hebrew Gentiles are in the Abraham Covenant but there's no such covenant God made with non-Hebrew Gentiles. None at all. So, your belief breaks with Scripture and violates the Word of God because whether non-Hebrew Gentiles came out of Abraham which is not true, or they came out of Ham and Japheth, you are still breaking with Scripture for there is no covenant in Scripture by which non-Hebrew Gentiles are saved.

Now, I know of Scripture that says God has covenant with Abram the Hebrew and his seed and later the Mosaic Covenant again with Abraham's seed, but there is nothing in Scripture in which non-Hebrew Gentiles are in any of the three Hebrew salvation covenants through which non-Hebrew Gentiles are saved. None at all. So, you're really violating the Scripture to believe such lies but then again, that's on you. I take Scripture as written, and you add to the Bible.

Can't you read? Anyone who is blessed would have to be the seed of Abraham for several reasons. One is that Scripture says so. Another is "earth" refers to Israel, not the planet. Abraham had Ishmael and Isaac had Esau, and both are the families along with the Hebrew families that receive the blessings of Abraham only because of God's Promises that his seed would be as the stars in heaven and the sand on the seashore. God NEVER promised anything to non-Hebrew Gentiles. As a matter of biblical fact, here is a passage that reveals God's attitude towards non-Hebrew Gentiles. God does not change. He is Immutable. So, what He said about Gentiles back then is also the same attitude He has towards them today.

17 All nations before him are as nothing;
And they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity.
Isaiah 40:17.

The Word of God.

All of HIS families. They are the people that have inherited Abraham's Promises as it says in Genesis 15 and 17.

But if you want to break Scripture, then join the rest of Gentiles who do not take God's Word as written and like to manipulate it to their own hurt.

God made no covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles. None. They are outside the covenant of God and God's judgment is against them. When Christ returns, He comes to fight alongside Israel against Gentiles and guess who wins and what happens to Gentiles at the end? Revelation 20:7-10. Be prepared. It does not end well for Gentiles in that Day.

It's a good thing then that I place my hope in Jesus, who came to save the human race, instead of thinking you have the slightest idea what you're talking about.

You should learn.
Because what you think you know is utterly destroying you.


Hos 4:6 WEB My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I will also reject you, that you may be no priest to me. Because you have forgotten your God’s law, I will also forget your children.


Isa 11:9 WEB They will not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain; for the earth will be full of the knowledge of Yahweh, as the waters cover the sea.


Num 14:21 WEB but in very deed—as I live, and as all the earth shall be filled with Yahweh’s glory—

Hab 2:14 WEB For the earth will be filled with the knowledge of Yahweh’s glory, as the waters cover the sea.


Looks like YHVH will guarantee the entire human race will be aware of, and those who believe in Jesus will experience the knowledge of YHVH.


And considering that Jesus said,

Joh 17:3 WEB This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.

I'm thinking that YHVH has done exactly what he says he'd do.

1Jn 4:14 WEBWe have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as the Savior of the world.