The Importance of Obedience in Knowing God

[DavidTree]

I don't mind questions-but there are questions-and THEN there are questions--

Before His final act of obedience in going to the cross, Jesus accomplished various aspects of obedience throughout His life. As a child, He obeyed His parents (Luke 2:51), and as an adult, He obeyed the Law and fulfilled all righteousness (Matthew 3:15). Throughout His life, Jesus completely fulfilled the Father’s will (John 8:29; 15:10; Hebrews 10:9). He "learned" obedience on earth by experiencing it in every situation, no matter how difficult, and was obedient to the Father, ultimately culminating in His sacrificial death on the cross. Jesus' obedience, coming through extreme suffering, qualified Him to be our eternal High Priest and the source of eternal salvation for all who obey Him (Hebrews 5:8–10). Jesus' obedience was not in the sense that He was prone to disobedience and had to bring rebelliousness under control, but rather in the sense of fully entering the human experience and submitting to the Father's will, even unto death

Additionally, Jesus' obedience was not limited to His passive submission on the cross. He actively obeyed His Father's precepts during the whole course of His Passion. His entire life, from birth to adulthood to death, was characterized by perfect obedience and fulfillment of the Father's will. This active obedience, along with His passive obedience on the cross, is essential for providing atonement for human transgression

In summary, before His final act of obedience in going to the cross, Jesus accomplished a life of perfect obedience, fulfilling the Father's will in every aspect of His human experience. This active and passive obedience qualified Him to be our eternal High Priest and the source of eternal salvation for all who obey Him. Jesus' obedience was not limited to His suffering on the cross but encompassed His entire life, culminating in His sacrificial death for the redemption of humanity.

My apologies IF this does not answer your question

J.

ALL GOOD my Brother in Arms

His Perfect Obedience to every aspect of the FATHER's Will so that the 'Last Man' could fulfill what the first man/Adam failed.

a.) As you said: perfect obedience as a child under 'parents'
b.) Coming of Manhood = at age 12 teaching in the Temple
c.) submission to John the Baptist(Elder in the flesh) for water baptism which was fulfillment of Crossing the Jordan into Promise
d.) as HE said to John - "to fulfill ALL righteousness"
'e' for Excellence = Matthew 5:17-20

'f' for Found = Matthew 15:21-28

'g' for Gospel = John 3:16-18

'h' stands for Holy Spirit = John 4:5-13 , 14:15-18

the Final declaration of the LORD = John 19:28-30
After this, Jesus, knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the Scripture might be fulfilled, said, “I thirst!” Now a vessel full of sour wine was sitting there; and they filled a sponge with sour wine, put it on hyssop, and put it to His mouth. So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.

 

[DavidTree]

@Johann

i made a BIG oversight my Brother in Post #41

i forgot to mention HE came for His Bride

 

[Johann]

i forgot to mention HE came for His Bride

Amen-Lol!

"He came for his bride" is a phrase that refers to Jesus Christ coming for the Church, which is often symbolized as the Bride of Christ in the Bible. The phrase is often used in reference to the Second Coming of Christ, where Jesus is depicted as the Bridegroom who comes to claim His Bride, the Church. The Church is expected to be prepared and ready for His coming, just as a bride would prepare herself for her wedding day. The phrase is often used in parables, such as the Parable of the Ten Virgins in Matthew 25, where the wise virgins represent those who are prepared for the coming of the Bridegroom, while the foolish virgins represent those who are unprepared
J.

 

[Johann]

@Johann

i made a BIG oversight my Brother in Post #41

i forgot to mention HE came for His Bride

TETELESTAI!!

 

[DavidTree]

TETELESTAI!!

THANK YOU LORD Jesus Christ for Your Sacrifice that TETELESTAI the Work of God that no one else could do for us.

 

[mikepec]

I think obedience is one of the first steps in knowing God. And that the importance of obedience is so much great that it can't be over emphasized. Christ Himself is its our great illustration of obedience.

He “humbled himself, becoming obedient even unto death, yea, the death of the cross” Phil 2:8

By obedience to Him we are through Him made partakers of His salvation Hebrews 5:9

This act is a supreme test of faith in Christ. Indeed, it is so vitally related that they are in some cases almost synonymous. “Obedience of faith” is a combination used by Paul to express this idea Romans 1:5

Peter designates believers in Christ as “children of obedience” 1 Peter 1:14

I think the bottom line is our faith through obedience Is how we become identified as believers and become a disciple.

Which is precisely what catholics think.

As john 3:36 states the opposite of believe is disobey. Formed faith includes obedience.
Obedience is important in faith and salvation. What you do or do not do matters, so we are told in john 3:36

It is not salvation by works. No amount of obedience is sufficient , we are only saved by grace through faith.
But cooperation with christ in obedience is necessary.

 

[Fellow Traveler]

Which is precisely what catholics think.

As john 3:36 states the opposite of believe is disobey. Formed faith includes obedience.
Obedience is important in faith and salvation. What you do or do not do matters, so we are told in john 3:36

It is not salvation by works. No amount of obedience is sufficient , we are only saved by grace through faith.
But cooperation with christ in obedience is necessary.

If Catholics are obedient to Christ after they get saved more power to them. They're doing what the Bible tells them to do. Abide in Christ pick up your cross and follow Him.

The opposite of obeying Christ is called easy believerism. You can confess Jesus with your mouth but He's not in your heart you don't love him enough to obey Him.

I bet if we talked face to face instead of on the internet we would agree with each other. This format sometimes makes it Hard to communicate what we're really talking about.

The Bible does say that we are living sacrifices there were slaves to Christ bought and paid for with the price of his shed blood. So with that in mind it doesn't seem like very Much of a stretch to believe we should obey Him.

 

[brightfame52]

@Fellow Traveler

I think obedience is one of the first steps in knowing God

Actually Knowing God is a Gift Jesus gives to them that God has given to Him Jn 17:1-3

These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I think obedience is one of the first steps in knowing God. And that the importance of obedience is so much great that it can't be over emphasized. Christ Himself is its our great illustration of obedience.

He “humbled himself, becoming obedient even unto death, yea, the death of the cross” Phil 2:8

By obedience to Him we are through Him made partakers of His salvation Hebrews 5:9

This act is a supreme test of faith in Christ. Indeed, it is so vitally related that they are in some cases almost synonymous. “Obedience of faith” is a combination used by Paul to express this idea Romans 1:5

Peter designates believers in Christ as “children of obedience” 1 Peter 1:14

I think the bottom line is our faith through obedience Is how we become identified as believers and become a disciple.

Yes, but obedience to what? our own understanding?
Once Gentiles began teaching the Torah of God is "abolished" or "obsolete" then what is there to obey?
Nothing but our own understanding.
Gentile Christians harp on obedience to God but they throw out all the commandments God and His Christ commanded to be obeyed.
Since they've taught the Torah/Law of God has been "abolished" they no longer have to obey the command to not have other gods before them, or they no longer have to obey the command of eye for eye or striking the other cheek. They mock God for His dietary Laws for hamburger and fries and a shake.
God gives command on who to love specifically but Gentiles reject that for loving everyone, even giving that which is holy to dogs and casting their pearls to swine.
But God is not mocked. What a man sows that shall he also reap.
And what he reaps is a whirlwind.
We'll have to wait until the last day, and it will be too late.
Today is the day of salvation and save me from myself!

 

[SteveB]

I think obedience is one of the first steps in knowing God.

ol. What do you think that first step is?

And that the importance of obedience is so much great that it can't be over emphasized. Christ Himself is its our great illustration of obedience.

He “humbled himself, becoming obedient even unto death, yea, the death of the cross” Phil 2:8

Indeed. Following this example, how would we die the death of the cross?

By obedience to Him we are through Him made partakers of His salvation Hebrews 5:9

cool. I like being able to partake in his salvation.

This act is a supreme test of faith in Christ. Indeed, it is so vitally related that they are in some cases almost synonymous. “Obedience of faith” is a combination used by Paul to express this idea Romans 1:5

ok. So how do we obey to faith?

Peter designates believers in Christ as “children of obedience” 1 Peter 1:14

I think the bottom line is our faith through obedience Is how we become identified as believers and become a disciple.

Indeed.
What does this mean?

 

[Behold]

By obedience to Him we are through Him made partakers of His salvation Hebrews 5:9

verse 3 is the context of your "Obedience'..

As Jesus was sacrificed for our sin, and He was obedient to go to the Cross and die there for our sin.

And our obedience, is to "believe on JESUS whom God sent".

If we are obedient, in this way, then Jesus dies for our sin.
If not, then the unbeliever dies "in your sin"., and in that case you just punched your Ticket to Hell.

And there is no 2nd Chance in Hell.

 

[dwight92070]

I think obedience is one of the first steps in knowing God. And that the importance of obedience is so much great that it can't be over emphasized. Christ Himself is its our great illustration of obedience.

He “humbled himself, becoming obedient even unto death, yea, the death of the cross” Phil 2:8

By obedience to Him we are through Him made partakers of His salvation Hebrews 5:9

This act is a supreme test of faith in Christ. Indeed, it is so vitally related that they are in some cases almost synonymous. “Obedience of faith” is a combination used by Paul to express this idea Romans 1:5

Peter designates believers in Christ as “children of obedience” 1 Peter 1:14

I think the bottom line is our faith through obedience Is how we become identified as believers and become a disciple.

Biblically, "repent, and believe in the gospel of the kingdom of God" is the first step in knowing God. Matthew 4:17 and Mark 1:15. When a person does that, He is born again. We could say that someone is obeying by "repenting and believing", but the key is that that is the only thing they can obey that will bring them into the door of salvation, and knowing God. Obeying any of the other commands of Jesus before repenting and believing, will not change the unbeliever, not bring him to know God.

If an unbeliever obeys Jesus by simply obeying His command to "Therefore beseech the Lord of the harvest to send out workers into His harvest.", for example - that will not bring Him to know God. Nor will any other of Jesus' commands except to "repent and believe". Then after they do that and have been born again, then obedience to all His other commands will bring about knowing God.

Hebrews 5:9 is written to believers, those who have already repented and believed. After that, obeying Him in all His other commands leads one to realize that He is the source of eternal salvation. We entered salvation by "repenting and believing". After that we realize that He is the source of a salvation that continues forever.

 

[MatthewG]

I would agree with you completely. The Holy Spirit through the writer of Hebrews says that Jesus is the author of salvation to those who obey Him (Heb 5:9).
In Luke 6:46-49, Jesus says that He is not really your Lord if you do not do what He says.
And again in Luke 13:25-27, He says that just calling Him Lord does not allow you to receive His blessing, but only correct obedience to Him. Even doing good things in His name is not enough. Doing good things in His name is only of value if you are already in relationship with Him.

 

[civic]

John 20:28- Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"

 

[dwight92070]

Believing is the same as faith. And faith is not a mental only thing. Faith requires action, or it is not really faith. Faith that does not produce action is dead, and does not please God. Our obedience to the Gospel must include the physical actions that Scripture says lead to salvation. If it does not, then salvation is not received.

Johann, the problem you are discussing here is caused by people focusing on only one part of the Scriptures rather than the whole. If ALL Scripture is equally inspired by God (and it is), and is therefore inerrant and perfect (and it is), then belief, faith, and obedience are all equally required.
John 3:16, and many other passages, only mentions belief as a requirement of salvation.
But then Acts 3:19 says that repentance leads to being forgiven (saved). Now, is it only belief? Or is repentance also required? Obviously both.
But then Rom 10:9-10 says that belief and confession are both required and both lead to salvation.
And then Acts 2:38 says repentance and baptism are both required.
But in Mark 16:16, and this is Jesus Himself speaking, it only says that people must believe and be baptized.
What we have to realize is that all of this is from one source, one author: the Holy Spirit. He is not giving multiple instructions, but only one instruction broken up and scattered through many places in His Word to us. That is one reason that a teacher is required in Rom 10:14-15 to bring the Gospel to people. We must be studied in the Word so that we can bring the full Gospel to people, and not allow people to be deceived by just reading one passage, like John 3:16, and believe that all they have to do is give intellectual assent to the truth of the Gospel to become saved.

So, according to your last statement, Jesus allowed Nicodemus to be deceived because he never told him that he must confess Jesus as his Lord. He also did not tell him that he must be baptized in water, deceiving him even more. John 3
Peter also deceived the people, because he never told the people that they must confess Jesus as their Lord. Acts 2:38
Paul deceived the Philippian jailer, because he never told him that he must repent, and confess Jesus as his Lord. Acts 16:31
Jesus Himself deceived the 11 disciples in Mark 16:16, because He didn't include repentance and confession here as requirements for salvation.
Peter again deceived the people in Acts 3:19, because he failed to tell the people that they must believe, and confess Jesus as Lord, and be baptized.
John 10:9 -Jesus said "I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, ..." But He deceived the people, because He didn't mention believing, repenting, confessing, or being baptized.
In Mark 1:15 Jesus said, "Repent and believe in the gospel." But He deceived the people again, by your doctrine, because He forgot to mention confession and baptism.
So, according to your doctrine, all the people mentioned in these verses were deceived by Jesus, Peter, and Paul because they did not give them the whole truth.

Or - there's another possibility. Jesus, Peter and Paul deceived none of them, but in each case gave them exactly what they needed to hear to be saved. They knew that salvation was a heart change, not a legalistic check list of outward works or behavior.

 

[Doug Brents]

So, according to your last statement, Jesus allowed Nicodemus to be deceived because he never told him that he must confess Jesus as his Lord. He also did not tell him that he must be baptized in water, deceiving him even more. John 3

Not at all. Jesus did not deceive Nicodemus. Not all of what Jesus said is recorded. Only the part we need to know today. We don't know what else Jesus said to Nicodemus that night.

Peter also deceived the people, because he never told the people that they must confess Jesus as their Lord. Acts 2:38

He commanded them to be baptized in Jesus' name.

Paul deceived the Philippian jailer, because he never told him that he must repent, and confess Jesus as his Lord. Acts 16:31

We don't know what all Paul taught to the Philippian jailer, because it is all covered in Acts 16:32, "they spoke the word of God to him". But we can be pretty sure that repentance and confession of Jesus were covered in what he taught them.

So, according to your doctrine, all the people mentioned in these verses were deceived by Jesus, Peter, and Paul because they did not give them the whole truth.

There was no deception in any of the passages you list. You are putting "deception" in where literary omission occurs. The writer simply did not tell us everything that the speaker said in any of these events. You seek to have each separate verse tell you everything that is required without you having to put in the work to study the Word of God to find the nuggets of truth on different topics spread throughout the whole. That is not how Scripture is put together.

Or - there's another possibility. Jesus, Peter and Paul deceived none of them, but in each case gave them exactly what they needed to hear to be saved. They knew that salvation was a heart change, not a legalistic check list of outward works or behavior.

Salvation is not the result of a heart change. The heart change is the result of salvation. The Spirit renews our heart and gives us new life when He cuts our sin from us and makes us new. And that happens DURING baptism, not before.

 

[dwight92070]

Doug -"We must be studied in the Word so that we can bring the full Gospel to people, and not allow people to be deceived by just reading one passage ..."
Doug - "You are putting "deception" in where literary omission occurs."

You are the one calling "just reading one passage" deception, not me. Obviously, only the recorded words were sufficient for the persons mentioned to get saved. Otherwise the Holy Spirit would be deceiving those of us who read those accounts.

So if you don't know what else Jesus told Nicodemus, then you have no guarantee that He told him to confess Him as Lord, do you? In fact, He may have told him nothing else at all. You can't verify that He said more than what is recorded, even though you assume He did.

Peter commanded them to repent and be baptized, but he never told them to confess Jesus as Lord. Once again, you assume he told them that, but you can't confirm that.

Being "pretty sure" that Paul told the jailer that he must repent and confess Jesus as Lord, is not good enough, especially going by your standards. You say those things are required, along with baptism, and belief, or there is no salvation. So if Paul did not tell him that, then he deceived him and he was still lost, according to you.

Of course there was no deception, nor was there any omission, as you always assume when you can't find all the points on your legalistic check list.

"You seek to have each separate verse tell you everything that is required" on your legalistic check list. You do that. Not me, I take the word of God as it is, not what I hope it was, if they had only put in the "whole gospel", as you say. According to you, the Holy Spirit has put in a multitude of "partial gospel" presentations in the Bible, and it's up to us to "piece" them all together like a jigsaw puzzle, so we will know the checklist that must be met, to be saved.
Here's another "partial gospel" passage, according to your doctrine. Only Paul indicates that it is the entire message necessary for our salvation.

1 Corinthians 15:1-8
"Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, (the following words of Paul are the 'whole gospel')
[that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that He appeared to Cephas ... the twelve ... more than five hundred brethren men ... James ..the apostles ... and last ... to me.]"

Paul gives the "whole" gospel here - nothing is missing, because they were saved by it. The Corinthians received it, stood on it, were saved by it. Yet there is no mention of repentance, baptism, or confessing Jesus as Lord. So true salvation is possible without even mentioning those things.

Peter preached a similar message in Acts 10:34-44. He said the Jews put Him to death on a cross, but God raised Him up on the third day, and that He was visible and seen by many witnesses. Peter also said that the prophets foretold that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.
At that point the Holy Spirit fell on all of Cornelius' family, saving them instantly. This indicated that the people had a heart change before the Holy Spirit fell on them. There is no salvation without a change of heart. There was no mention of repentance, water baptism, or confession of Jesus as Lord - yet they all were saved. Water baptism came later, after the Holy Spirit fell on them and baptized them into the body of Christ.

 

[Doug Brents]

You are the one calling "just reading one passage" deception, not me. Obviously, only the recorded words were sufficient for the persons mentioned to get saved. Otherwise the Holy Spirit would be deceiving those of us who read those accounts.

Not so. We have the rest of the Scriptures to study from, and to find the answers to the questions, if we are willing to put in the work and actually study for ourselves, not accepting the first "good sounding" doctrine that comes along.

So if you don't know what else Jesus told Nicodemus, then you have no guarantee that He told him to confess Him as Lord, do you? In fact, He may have told him nothing else at all. You can't verify that He said more than what is recorded, even though you assume He did.

No, I don't assume He told him any more. It was a moot point at that point in time, because they were still under the OT. Baptism did not matter for salvation until after Jesus died. And confessing Jesus as Lord, the confession upon which the Church is built (Matt 16:16, 18) was not yet made known to the World by the Holy Spirit.

Peter commanded them to repent and be baptized, but he never told them to confess Jesus as Lord. Once again, you assume he told them that, but you can't confirm that.

He commanded that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

Being "pretty sure" that Paul told the jailer that he must repent and confess Jesus as Lord, is not good enough, especially going by your standards. You say those things are required, along with baptism, and belief, or there is no salvation. So if Paul did not tell him that, then he deceived him and he was still lost, according to you.

We know that Paul "spoke the word of God to him together with all who were in his house". What is the "word of God"? The Gospel. What does it include? We know that it includes baptism in water in order to receive forgiveness of sins because of what Philip taught the Eunuch in Acts 8.

"You seek to have each separate verse tell you everything that is required" on your legalistic check list. You do that. Not me, I take the word of God as it is, not what I hope it was, if they had only put in the "whole gospel", as you say. According to you, the Holy Spirit has put in a multitude of "partial gospel" presentations in the Bible, and it's up to us to "piece" them all together like a jigsaw puzzle, so we will know the checklist that must be met, to be saved.
Here's another "partial gospel" passage, according to your doctrine. Only Paul indicates that it is the entire message necessary for our salvation.

1 Corinthians 15:1-8
"Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, (the following words of Paul are the 'whole gospel')
[that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that He appeared to Cephas ... the twelve ... more than five hundred brethren men ... James ..the apostles ... and last ... to me.]"

Paul gives the "whole" gospel here - nothing is missing, because they were saved by it. The Corinthians received it, stood on it, were saved by it. Yet there is no mention of repentance, baptism, or confessing Jesus as Lord. So true salvation is possible without even mentioning those things.

1 Cor 15:1-8 tells us what the Good News, the Gospel, is, but it does not say anything about how or when it is received. It just says that it was received by those in Corinth.

Peter preached a similar message in Acts 10:34-44. He said the Jews put Him to death on a cross, but God raised Him up on the third day, and that He was visible and seen by many witnesses. Peter also said that the prophets foretold that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.
At that point the Holy Spirit fell on all of Cornelius' family, saving them instantly. This indicated that the people had a heart change before the Holy Spirit fell on them. There is no salvation without a change of heart. There was no mention of repentance, water baptism, or confession of Jesus as Lord - yet they all were saved. Water baptism came later, after the Holy Spirit fell on them and baptized them into the body of Christ.

Cornelius and his family were not saved when the Spirit fell ON them in tongues and praise. They were saved when they were baptized into Christ in faith. You are attempting to deny many passages of Scripture in order to validate your false doctrine. Rom 10:9-10 is very clear that confession of Jesus as Lord RESULTS in receiving salvation. Acts 2:38 is very clear that baptism (an act that the people there, and by extension everyone today, had to submit to) resulted in forgiveness of sin and the reception of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Behold]

I think the bottom line is our faith through obedience Is how we become identified as believers

Here is how you " become identified as a CHRISTian"..., By God.


A.) Jesus said.. "You must be Born again".

So, reader, if you belong to a CULT that does not understand this, or teach it, then find a REAL CHURCH.

"but my mama and my dad and all my relatives and all my friends go to my cult"..

""we're all water baptized and sprinkled and have our book of Mormon and burn candles to Mary"".

And so what?

When you die and meet God is that what you are going to tell Him?

"God can you spell ROSARY"

See, CHRISTianity is YOU and GOD and JESUS and The Holy Spirit......its not....follow the leader, or do what mama says the pope said,, and daddy said is true that denies the Cross.


CHRISTianity, is YOU and your MAKER and that is On YOU, and you have to get it RIGHT before you die, as there is no 2nd Chance after you die.

Its not that hard, you just have to understand "The Gospel of the GRACE of God".

 

[Doug Brents]

Here is how you " become identified as a CHRISTian"..., By God.


A.) Jesus said.. "You must be Born again".

So how does Scripture say you are born again?

CHRISTianity, is YOU and your MAKER and that is On YOU, and you have to get it RIGHT before you die, as there is no 2nd Chance after you die.

This I can agree with.