The Importance of Obedience in Knowing God

[Behold]

So how does Scripture say you are born again?

By the Holy Spirit of God.

This is why the "Born again" are become "the TEMPLE of the Holy Spirit".

God forgives all sin, based on the Blood and Death of Jesus.... like this..

"God hath made JESUS>.. to BE SIN....for us"...

A.) US = the BELIEVER.


and then God performs the new birth that results in a "new Creation IN Christ".

This is all Spiritual.

People who are RELIGiOUS try to do it with water and works.

People who became a born again CHRISTIAN, didn't make that mistake.

 

[Doug Brents]

By the Holy Spirit of God.

This is why the "Born again" are become "the TEMPLE of the Holy Spirit".

God forgives all sin, based on the Blood and Death of Jesus.... like this..

"God hath made JESUS>.. to BE SIN....for us"...

A.) US = the BELIEVER.


and then God performs the new birth that results in a "new Creation IN Christ".

This is all Spiritual.

People who are RELIGiOUS try to do it with water and works.

People who became a born again CHRISTIAN, didn't make that mistake.

So you reject Scripture?
Rom 6:1-7
"What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 Far from it! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too may walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7 for the one who has died is freed from sin."
When we are baptized we die to sin, and if we have not been baptized we have not died to sin. If we have been buried with Him in baptism, then we are also united with Him in His resurrection.
Col 2:11-14
"and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision performed without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ, 12 having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And when you were dead in your wrongdoings and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our wrongdoings, 14 having canceled the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross."
Our sins are cut from us by the Holy Spirit when we are baptized into Him, and in baptism we are raised with Christ through our faith.
1 Pet 3:21
"Baptism, which corresponds to this [the Flood], now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ"
Baptism in water saves us today because it is an appeal to God for a good/clear/cleansed conscience because of the resurrection of Jesus.

Yes, all of this is spiritual, because it is the Holy Spirit that is removing our sin from our spirit and uniting our spirit with Jesus. But it requires the action of obedience of baptism on our part, for that is where the Spirit does the removing of sin and the uniting of spirits.

 

[Behold]

baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?

Where is Christ?

Is he in your Laptop?

So, Jesus is in HEAVEN. /??????

Where is your water?
Is it in heaven?
Were you in Heaven where Jesus is, when you were sprinkled, or dunked?

So, what you are not understanding is... "IN CHRIST" is not "IN WATER"

So, to be baptized INTO CHRIST, is not to be water baptized in your baptismal, as your cult teaches.


See the "IN CHRIST"?

That is ONLY Spiritual, so, that BAPTISM, is not "with Fire" and its not "in water".

Its "in Christ"., and that BAPTISM is performed by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Doug Brents]

Where is Christ?

Is he in your Laptop?

So, Jesus is in HEAVEN. /??????

Where is your water?
Is it in heaven?
Were you in Heaven where Jesus is, when you were sprinkled, or dunked?

So, what you are not understanding is... "IN CHRIST" is not "IN WATER"

So, to be baptized INTO CHRIST, is not to be water baptized in your baptismal, as your cult teaches.


See the "IN CHRIST"?

That is ONLY Spiritual, so, that BAPTISM, is not "with Fire" and its not "in water".

Its "in Christ"., and that BAPTISM is performed by the Holy Spirit.

What did Jesus tell us to do?
Matt 28:19
"Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age."
The Apostles, and through them every one of us (since they were to teach us everything He taught them (including this commandment)) are to go to the nations, teach them the Gospel, make disciples of them, and baptize them in the name of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and teach them to do the same. But notice, Jesus is with us still, even to the end of the world.

Jesus is not just in Heaven. He is with us still (through the Holy Spirit). And it is the physical action of baptism that brings about the spiritual change of salvation.

 

[Behold]

What did Jesus tell us to do?
Matt 28:19
"Go therefore and make disciples of all nations

"make disciples of all nations".

vs.

Jesus said """"you must be born again" = to become a SON of God.

Being Born again is a Spiritual Birth, not a city water supply, situation.

Being born again delivers a SON, as a "new creation in Christ".

 

[Doug Brents]

"make disciples of all nations".

vs.

Jesus said """"you must be born again" = to become a SON of God.

Being Born again is a Spiritual Birth, not a city water supply, situation.

Being born again delivers a SON, as a "new creation in Christ".

You are taking these Scriptures as if they stand alone, and are not connected in any way.
Yes, we make disciples, and those disciples become friends, and those friends become sons and daughters, just as the Apostles did. It is in baptism that the disciple and friend becomes a son or daughter, because that is where new birth occurs. One is not a new creature until he has died to sin and is resurrected with Christ (which occurs during baptism)(Rom 6:1-7, Col 2:11-14).

 

[Behold]

Yes, we make disciples,

You can be a "disciple of Christ" and go to Hell.

Notice... Jesus said..."if you keep my words you are my disciple.. indeed".

That is not the same as..

Jesus said.. "you must be born again".

 

[Doug Brents]

You can be a "disciple of Christ" and go to Hell.

Notice... Jesus said..."if you keep my words you are my disciple.. indeed".

That is not the same as..

Jesus said.. "you must be born again".

You take only a few words I say and don't read the whole, and in doing so you change the meaning of what I said. But then, you do the same with Scripture, so I am in good company.

You can indeed be a disciple of Christ and go to Hell. That is why you must progress from being a disciple to being a son. And as noted above, it is in baptism that we cease being just a disciple and become a son. It is in baptism that we die to sin and are resurrected with Christ Jesus.

 

[Behold]

You take only a few words I say and don't read the whole, and in doing so you change the meaning of what I said.

You are stuck on repeat.
Ive heard all you have to say, 40 posts ago.

So, there is no need for me to respond to "repeat".

What is important is that you are used as an example of what is "theologically wrong" so that others can see the problem and not become that one.

 

[Doug Brents]

You are stuck on repeat.
Ive heard all you have to say, 40 posts ago.

So, there is no need for me to respond to "repeat".

What is important is that you are used as an example of what is "theologically wrong" so that others can see the problem and not become that one.

You clearly have not heard the truth of what I say, because you still reject the Scriptures.

 

[Behold]

You clearly have not heard the truth of what I say, because you still reject the Scriptures.

Ive heard what you have been taught to believe.

That is not "the Truth"... that is just what you've been led to share.

 

[Doug Brents]

Ive heard what you have been taught to believe.

That is not "the Truth"... that is just what you've been led to share.

Not at all. It was not something I was taught. It is what I find in Scripture. I began with the understanding that ALL Scripture is inspired, authored by the Holy Spirit, and is without error or conflict. Then I started a study of EVERY passage that talks about salvation, forgiveness of sin, justification and any other synonym that I could think of. Then I listed all the things that Scripture says leads to receiving salvation from those passages. Then, I concluded that all of those things must be inclusive of each other because there are no conflicts or errors in Scripture. You should try a similar study at some point. It is very eye opening.

 

[Behold]

Not at all. It was not something I was taught. It is what I find in Scripture. I began with the understanding that ALL Scripture is inspired

The "cult of Mary" teaches that you are "born again BY water".

That is in THEIR BIBLE and in no other. = Douay Rheims.

This bible is : DEMONIC

So, i agree that this demonic bible and that cult of mary that is a water cult, has taught you., and that is why you want to teach water as your salvation.
And you'll do it again, as you are trained to do it.

 

[Doug Brents]

The "cult of Mary" teaches that you are "born again BY water".

That is in THEIR BIBLE and in no other. = Douay Rheims.

This bible is : DEMONIC

So, i agree that this demonic bible and that cult of mary that is a water cult, has taught you., and that is why you want to teach water as your salvation.
And you'll do it again, as you are trained to do it.

I have never in my life been to a "cult of mary" meeting, been taught by a "cult of mary" priest, or read from the douay rheims book.

So I don't really care what the papist cult teaches, and I have never said that we are born again BY water. Scripture says that we are born again BY the Spirit when we pass through the water of baptism.

 

[Behold]

. Scripture says that we are born again BY the Spirit when we pass through the water of baptism.

Tell that nonsense to the dying Thief on the Cross.

Tell that nonsense to the person who Trusts in Christ and is born again, in a Mexican Jail, or in a Federal Prison, behind bars.

Tell that CATHOLIC nonsense to the person who is just about to DIE, in a Hospital, and they reach out to Jesus, believing.

So, you have no idea what you are talking about, but you do like to repeat that fact, @Doug Brents .

 

[Doug Brents]

Tell that nonsense to the dying Thief on the Cross.

The thief on the cross was promised salvation before Jesus died. While Jesus was alive He had the authority to forgive sin as He chose (Matt 9:6). But after His death salvation is only through what He has commanded, and that is baptism.

Tell that nonsense to the person who Trusts in Christ and is born again, in a Mexican Jail, or in a Federal Prison, behind bars.

I have been a part of baptizing men behind bars, so don't tell me it can't be done. But a person who "trusts in Christ" but doesn't obey Him doesn't really trust Him, and so he remains lost.

Tell that CATHOLIC nonsense to the person who is just about to DIE, in a Hospital, and they reach out to Jesus, believing.

Did they obey? No? Then they didn't believe. Just reaching out with a mental cry of "save me" is not belief, nor does it have any saving power.

 

[Behold]

The thief on the cross was promised salvation before Jesus died.

And this Dying Thief is as born again as anyone.

= No Water Baptism

I have been a part of baptizing men behind bars,

Well, stand up and be counted, little one.

Did you need me to applaud?

@Doug Brents ... did you lie to them and say...>"everyone who wants to go to Heaven, get in the water, and the water will wash your sin away".

Is that your idea of how they are SAVEDS?

So.. you've not done this in a Mexican Jail, tho it would not have helped.
And....Not in a Communist country where Bibles are not allowed and Christianity is forbidden, tho it would not have saved them.

So, take your vain opinion on down the road, as you are not informed, scripturally

Did they obey? No? Then they didn't believe.

Did they obey "all that call on the name of Jesus shall be saved"?

Did they obey...

Jesus said.. "all that believe in me, i give unto you Eternal life, and you shall never go to Hell (perish)..."

A.) YES


So, your idea of Salvation is not related to :

John 3:17
John 3:16
2 Corinthians 5:19

Enjoy your "water saves me", @Doug Brents = Galatians 1:8

 

[Doug Brents]

And this Dying Thief is as born again as anyone.

= No Water Baptism

Again, not relevant to the NT era. He was promised salvation under the OT, not under the NT.

did you lie to them and say...>"everyone who wants to go to Heaven, get in the water, and the water will wash your sin away".

No, I did not lie to them. I read them the commands in Scripture, and they obeyed Jesus.

So.. you've not done this in a Mexican Jail, tho it would not have helped.
And....Not in a Communist country where Bibles are not allowed and Christianity is forbidden, tho it would not have saved them.

So, take your vain opinion on down the road, as you are not informed, scripturally

In your opinion, but that is only because you do not accept all of the Scriptures.

Did they obey "all that call on the name of Jesus shall be saved"?

What does it mean to "call on the name of the Lord"? Does is mean to just call Jesus Lord? Or does it mean to just call out to Jesus, "Save me"?
No, it cannot mean that, because Scripture also says, "Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; leave Me, you who practice lawlessness.’" Just calling on His name does not save, but doing what He says does.

Did they obey...

Jesus said.. "all that believe in me, i give unto you Eternal life, and you shall never go to Hell (perish)..."

No, they did not believe, because they did not obey. To believe is to obey (John 3:36, "The one who believes in the Son has eternal life; but the one who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.")

 

[Behold]

No, they did not believe, because they did not obey.

In the Oncology Dept. (Cancer ward) .. when they are about to die, they can't get up, ...

But they can Trust in Christ., as "Jesus came into the world to save SINNERS" and they QUALIFY...

I see now that your entire concept of the Cross OF CHRIST is...> : "unless there is a water hole nearby, Jesus can't save you".

= That is Catholic Cult of Mary, "doctrines of devils".

So, there you are.....trying to DICTATE to the Holy Spirit by twisting verses.... to support your WATER CULT mindset. @Doug Brents

Now come and do it again, as its good for the members and (Mods) to see what you are doing, so that they can avoid it, themselves.

 

[Doug Brents]

In the Oncology Dept. (Cancer ward) .. when they are about to die, they can't get up, ...

Toward the end, that is true. But it was not always the case. I know, I have lived through this with my late wife for seven years in cancer treatments. But God is not seeking those who wait to the last possible moment to choose Him. He calls us to choose Him NOW!!! There is a too late.