I meant to say: "will add that infants are NOT pure and innocent as you are saying."
James' Teaching On Justification: Before Men Or Before God?
- Thread starter Titus
- Start date
@Titus
"How does one get saved in Christ?" A awkward question you are asking. How does one get into Christ, or how does one become a child of God ~ would be a more intelligent biblical question. Let me give you a bible answer to the latter, and actually the first as well.
"According to"....Agreeing; harmonizing and 2. Suitable; agreeable; in accordance with. It signifies a state of agreement, conformity, or correspondence between two things, or a reference to a source or authority
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.”
There has never been a time God did not view us in Christ, never ~ Legally speaking. Practically, yes, some were in Christ before others, but not legally.
You folks just cannot get away from calling others faith "Calvinism" when they teach unconditional election by grace. Why do you not take what I believe and teach and prove it unbiblical with the scriptures, and if one has the truth, it will expose error, without name calling ~you must interject Calvinism into your argument and the reason being, is that you have no other strong points to use other than that, because you know that Calvinism is a hated teaching by most, especially so by those who preach conditions to be met, before one can be saved from their sins and condemnation, so you folks just cannot stop yourself. You asked:
"How does one get saved in Christ?" A awkward question you are asking. How does one get into Christ, or how does one become a child of God ~ would be a more intelligent biblical question. Let me give you a bible answer to the latter, and actually the first as well.
Ephesians 1:4
“According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:”Ephesians 1:5
“Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,”Ephesians 1:7
“In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;”2 Timothy 1:9
“Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,”"According to"....Agreeing; harmonizing and 2. Suitable; agreeable; in accordance with. It signifies a state of agreement, conformity, or correspondence between two things, or a reference to a source or authority
All of the elect have been part of Christ's body from eternity, there has never been a time when they have not been view by God as not part of Christ elect body, he being the head and they his members. How else are you going to understand such scriptures and there are many more, but for now:
Ephesians 2:5
“Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.”There has never been a time God did not view us in Christ, never ~ Legally speaking. Practically, yes, some were in Christ before others, but not legally.
Chosen in Christ, per Paul. The only way you and your false cult believes one is in Christ is though water baptism. Water Baptism puts one into the religion/faith of Christ only, nothing more. We shall consider Romans 6:1-4 later.
Coming back to make a separate post on these scriptures.
@Titus
Do I need to give more proof? John rules out three main sources men would claim that plays a part in the new birth. Man's will, the will of another man desiring folks to be born again, and blood as many of the Jews and modern day fundamentalist's believes that the Jews are God chosen people simply by the fact they are Jews by nature.
There are four requirements for a scriptural baptism, and this one verse teaches three of them. The three requirements taught here are the proper subject, mode, and design of baptism. It is amazing to see what modern translations have done to corrupt all three requirements.
Baptism is a figure of resurrection, as the verse’s grammar requires, and as the Bible teaches. The grammar, by ignoring the parenthetical element, connects the figure to resurrection. Bible baptism, which is immersion or submersion, is a picture of burial and resurrection. Paul thoroughly identified the burial and resurrection figure of water baptism (Romans 6:1-5). Without this understanding of baptism = resurrection, you have no hope with 1st Corinthians 15:29.
The condition for baptism is a good conscience, which requires maturity and regeneration! A bad conscience is under condemnation and guilt of sin without remedy (Hebrews 10:1-3). A good conscience must hear and believe the true gospel of forgiveness and justification.
The apostle John said that you and your false religion is a lie.
John 1:13
“Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.”Do I need to give more proof? John rules out three main sources men would claim that plays a part in the new birth. Man's will, the will of another man desiring folks to be born again, and blood as many of the Jews and modern day fundamentalist's believes that the Jews are God chosen people simply by the fact they are Jews by nature.
Water baptism does indeed put us INTO Christ, into his rellgion/faith/teachings, etc. When one is baptized, he is confessing that he believes the record God gave of his Son and he is making a commitment to live according to the teaching of the word of God conceding Jesus Christ.
1st Peter 3:21
“The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:”The like figure.
There are two figures or pictures here – the ark in the previous verse, baptism in this verse. A figure is a symbolic picture representing something in reality (Romans 519; Hebrews 9:9. The adjective like indicates the figure of baptism is similar to another figure in context. The adverb also in this first clause further confirms at least two things being considered. Noah’s ark and water baptism are two figures: both are a picture of salvation in Christ. Most translations and commentators have only one figure – the ark is a figure of baptism! They have a vested interest in baptism not being a figure – for most are baby sprinklers.There are four requirements for a scriptural baptism, and this one verse teaches three of them. The three requirements taught here are the proper subject, mode, and design of baptism. It is amazing to see what modern translations have done to corrupt all three requirements.
Baptism is a figure of resurrection, as the verse’s grammar requires, and as the Bible teaches. The grammar, by ignoring the parenthetical element, connects the figure to resurrection. Bible baptism, which is immersion or submersion, is a picture of burial and resurrection. Paul thoroughly identified the burial and resurrection figure of water baptism (Romans 6:1-5). Without this understanding of baptism = resurrection, you have no hope with 1st Corinthians 15:29.
Whereunto even baptism.
Having introduced Noah and the ark for several reasons, Peter applied its figure to baptism. To this point in 1st Peter 3:18-22, no reader could know where he was going until these words.Doth also now save us.
The adverb also in this first clause further confirms at least two figures are being considered. The ark literally saved from water; Jesus literally saved His elect from the second death. The ark figuratively saved by figuring Jesus; baptism figuratively saves by figuring Jesus. How does baptism save? It saves figuratively, because baptism has been defined as a figure. There is real salvation in Jesus Christ’s resurrection mentioned in this verse (Romans 4:25). Baptism pictures that resurrection in a figure by its burial and rising again from water. There is no real saving efficacy, power, value in baptism, for the next clause confirms it. When the Bible says baptism washes away sins (Acts 22:16), it only does so figuratively. A good conscience answering God in baptism is evidence of eternal life (Mark 16;16). The will and works of man are entirely rejected as having any role in eternal life whatsoever.Not the putting away of the filth of the flesh.
A very damning and destructive heresy in church history is the premise that baptism saves. Once you accept this premise for your reasoning, then you will corrupt so much more truth. Since water may not be available for an immersion, you will invent sprinkling or pouring. Since many died in infancy, heretics comforted mothers by baptizing their babies, and the consistent Presbyterians doing this will also stuff the Lord’s Supper in their little mouths. Since infants miscarry, and they hold to original sin, they also use intrauterine baptism. Since Campbellites baptize believers, they deny original sin for the age of accountability. Since Mormons require a Mormon baptism, they invented baptism for dead relatives. Baptismal regeneration or salvation is a terrible lie that has corrupted “Christianity.” Modern translations and commentators show a profane perversity by corrupting this point. They must at all costs maintain the RCC heresy and premise that baptism saves the soul. Therefore, when they find God denying their profanity, they alter His words like in Eden. They change the words filth of the flesh … to … dirt of the body in words or meaning. The terms here define, demand, and prove design of water baptism – no means of salvation. Water baptism does not remove or take away sins or sin nature in any literal or real way.The condition for baptism is a good conscience, which requires maturity and regeneration! A bad conscience is under condemnation and guilt of sin without remedy (Hebrews 10:1-3). A good conscience must hear and believe the true gospel of forgiveness and justification.
By the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
Proper baptism, burial and resurrection in water, is a figurative picture of Jesus’ resurrection. The connection here defines, demands, and proves the mode of water baptism – immersion. Baptism must be a figure of salvation in Jesus Christ, for that is what is written thus far. Baptism must be a figure of Jesus Christ’s resurrection by connection to this last phrase. Only baptism by immersion has a figure or picture of any kind at all of body resurrection.@Titus
We were chosen IN CHRIST, before the foundation of the world. Can words be any clearer spoken? Water baptism only places the NT saints into the religion/faith/teachings of Jesus Christ, which the OT saints did not enjoy this phase of salvation that NT saints enjoy, which is the true biblical meaning of Mark 16:16.
Every child of God under the NT and the religion of Jesus Christ, enjoys a salvation (in a practical sense only) that not many OT saints knew much about, with so much more light we are living under the NT, post Christ's death and resurrection, to sit upon David's Throne waiting until his Father make all his enemies his footstool. We know the reality, and truth of all those OT symbolical meanings. The word saved in Mark 16:16 is practical only, proven by the last half of Mark 16:16, which only those who do not believe are condemned, not those who have never be baptized, which are millions of believers. Water baptism when scripturally obey, just adds proper KNOWEDGE to those who ae being baptized.
The forty-year time period of about 30-70 A.D. was the time of reformation and transition from the law and prophets to the kingdom of God, in which both covenants operated side by side, until the Old Covenant vanished away with the destruction of Jerusalem, the temple of God, and the Jewish people
John the Baptist, introducing the time of reformation and this profound transition, was sent from God with the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins in preparation for the promised Messiah and Saviour of Israel
John the Baptist baptized Jesus Christ even though Christ did not baptize anyone (John 4:2). John the Baptist baptized the apostles of Jesus Christ ( Acts 1:21,22; John 1:35-42; etc.)
The apostles, and all other persons baptized by John, were not rebaptized, since it was before Christ death and resurrection, no need for them to be rebaptized.
Jesus and His apostles preached the same message of repentance with an identical baptism to that of John which was a preparatory and anticipatory view to the kingdom of God being established with power and the Holy Ghost at Pentecost, under a glorified Lord and Christ.
We may easily answer our Lord’s question regarding the authority of John’s baptism; for it was from heaven by Divine appointment, its reception fulfilled all righteousness, and it was never repeated (Matthew 3:15; 21:23-27; Luke 7:28-30; John 1:6; etc. )
John was authorized by God to initiate Christian baptism, so far as it went prior to Pentecost; but he had no authority to appoint other administrators to perpetuate his baptism; and he was to decrease as Christ was to increase (Mark 1:5; Luke 7:30; John 3:26-34; etc. )
Our Lord’s official work of baptizing with the Holy Ghost began at Pentecost ( Mark 1:8; Acts 1:5; 2:33-38; 8:12-19; 10:44-48; 11:15-17; 15:7-11; Hebrews 2:3,4)
The administrative authority for baptism was fully changed at Pentecost, based on the glorified Lord Jesus Christ, from that of John to that of Christ and His apostles (Matthew 28:18-20; Mark 16:14-20; Acts 2:36-38; 5:14)
The identifying formula for baptism changed at Pentecost, based on the glorified Jesus Christ ( Matthew 28:18-20; 19:5; 22:16, etc. )
Apollos, knowing only the baptism of John, that is, being baptized by John before Pentecost, was not rebaptized before going to Corinth (Acts 18:24-28; Hebrews 7:14)
Apollos taught the things of the Lord at Ephesus, knowing only John’s baptism; so his baptisms lacked both the administrative authority and identifying formula in use since Pentecost.
The twelve disciples at Ephesus, whom were baptized unto John’s baptism and had never heard of the Holy Ghost, likely by Apollos, were rebaptized by Paul in the name of the Lord Jesus (Acts 19:1-7). Their baptism by Paul did not make them anymore saved from sin and condemnation, more than they were, but it did INCREASE their knowledge of Christ's religion and the knowledge of a gift that they had, but needed to understand how to tap into that gift, which Paul showed them.
Baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus still required apostolic authority for the gifts of the Holy Ghost during this special, transitory period of time (Acts 8:16).
Proving all things to hold fast only the good is Christ’s order, and it was kept well by the church of Ephesus later in trying false apostles (Revelation 2:22).
There is one baptism – one true baptism, and all others are counterfeits of the true and are to be rejected. There is no more a plurality of acceptable baptisms than there are acceptable Lords (1st Corinthians 8:6) and faiths (Jude 1:3).
Paul’s question about the baptism of the twelve disciples – unto what then were ye baptized? – proves the necessity of verifying baptisms; for he knew they were baptized already, since they were believing disciples.
We learn from Paul’s rebaptism of the twelve, that though disciples are sincerely and conscientiously satisfied with their baptisms, as they were, yet if the act is not a Scriptural act, their baptisms are null and void ~ Paul simply corrected the purpose as to why they were baptized in the first place, though for the same purpose, yet now it is INTO the religion and faith of the Lord Jesus, with a promise of the Spirit, to be use as a comforter, guide, and teacher.
You asked again: "How then did the Ephesians in Ephesians 1:3 get IN Christ? " One more time, listen carefully:
Ephesians 1:4
“According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:”We were chosen IN CHRIST, before the foundation of the world. Can words be any clearer spoken? Water baptism only places the NT saints into the religion/faith/teachings of Jesus Christ, which the OT saints did not enjoy this phase of salvation that NT saints enjoy, which is the true biblical meaning of Mark 16:16.
Mark 16:16
“He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”Every child of God under the NT and the religion of Jesus Christ, enjoys a salvation (in a practical sense only) that not many OT saints knew much about, with so much more light we are living under the NT, post Christ's death and resurrection, to sit upon David's Throne waiting until his Father make all his enemies his footstool. We know the reality, and truth of all those OT symbolical meanings. The word saved in Mark 16:16 is practical only, proven by the last half of Mark 16:16, which only those who do not believe are condemned, not those who have never be baptized, which are millions of believers. Water baptism when scripturally obey, just adds proper KNOWEDGE to those who ae being baptized.
The forty-year time period of about 30-70 A.D. was the time of reformation and transition from the law and prophets to the kingdom of God, in which both covenants operated side by side, until the Old Covenant vanished away with the destruction of Jerusalem, the temple of God, and the Jewish people
John the Baptist, introducing the time of reformation and this profound transition, was sent from God with the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins in preparation for the promised Messiah and Saviour of Israel
John the Baptist baptized Jesus Christ even though Christ did not baptize anyone (John 4:2). John the Baptist baptized the apostles of Jesus Christ ( Acts 1:21,22; John 1:35-42; etc.)
The apostles, and all other persons baptized by John, were not rebaptized, since it was before Christ death and resurrection, no need for them to be rebaptized.
Jesus and His apostles preached the same message of repentance with an identical baptism to that of John which was a preparatory and anticipatory view to the kingdom of God being established with power and the Holy Ghost at Pentecost, under a glorified Lord and Christ.
We may easily answer our Lord’s question regarding the authority of John’s baptism; for it was from heaven by Divine appointment, its reception fulfilled all righteousness, and it was never repeated (Matthew 3:15; 21:23-27; Luke 7:28-30; John 1:6; etc. )
John was authorized by God to initiate Christian baptism, so far as it went prior to Pentecost; but he had no authority to appoint other administrators to perpetuate his baptism; and he was to decrease as Christ was to increase (Mark 1:5; Luke 7:30; John 3:26-34; etc. )
Our Lord’s official work of baptizing with the Holy Ghost began at Pentecost ( Mark 1:8; Acts 1:5; 2:33-38; 8:12-19; 10:44-48; 11:15-17; 15:7-11; Hebrews 2:3,4)
The administrative authority for baptism was fully changed at Pentecost, based on the glorified Lord Jesus Christ, from that of John to that of Christ and His apostles (Matthew 28:18-20; Mark 16:14-20; Acts 2:36-38; 5:14)
The identifying formula for baptism changed at Pentecost, based on the glorified Jesus Christ ( Matthew 28:18-20; 19:5; 22:16, etc. )
Apollos, knowing only the baptism of John, that is, being baptized by John before Pentecost, was not rebaptized before going to Corinth (Acts 18:24-28; Hebrews 7:14)
Apollos taught the things of the Lord at Ephesus, knowing only John’s baptism; so his baptisms lacked both the administrative authority and identifying formula in use since Pentecost.
The twelve disciples at Ephesus, whom were baptized unto John’s baptism and had never heard of the Holy Ghost, likely by Apollos, were rebaptized by Paul in the name of the Lord Jesus (Acts 19:1-7). Their baptism by Paul did not make them anymore saved from sin and condemnation, more than they were, but it did INCREASE their knowledge of Christ's religion and the knowledge of a gift that they had, but needed to understand how to tap into that gift, which Paul showed them.
Baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus still required apostolic authority for the gifts of the Holy Ghost during this special, transitory period of time (Acts 8:16).
Proving all things to hold fast only the good is Christ’s order, and it was kept well by the church of Ephesus later in trying false apostles (Revelation 2:22).
There is one baptism – one true baptism, and all others are counterfeits of the true and are to be rejected. There is no more a plurality of acceptable baptisms than there are acceptable Lords (1st Corinthians 8:6) and faiths (Jude 1:3).
Paul’s question about the baptism of the twelve disciples – unto what then were ye baptized? – proves the necessity of verifying baptisms; for he knew they were baptized already, since they were believing disciples.
We learn from Paul’s rebaptism of the twelve, that though disciples are sincerely and conscientiously satisfied with their baptisms, as they were, yet if the act is not a Scriptural act, their baptisms are null and void ~ Paul simply corrected the purpose as to why they were baptized in the first place, though for the same purpose, yet now it is INTO the religion and faith of the Lord Jesus, with a promise of the Spirit, to be use as a comforter, guide, and teacher.
Titus
Active Member
You type out verses as if you've proven these contradict what I believe.
You've proven nothing.
Give an explanation to what all these verses mean.
Walk me through them and show how my beliefs contradict them.
The problem is you dont even know what I believe yet you have no problem assuming without knowledge.
Ask me what I believe STOP assuming then making up stuff about me.
Your dishonesty is showing.
Titus
Active Member
No context just pretext.
The Bible teaches elsewhere how those are added to Christ.
Galatians 3:26-27. Baptized INTO Christ.
You gave zero scripture showing belief alone put one IN Christ.
Those who chose to be baptized into Christ are the ones God
God chose the plan to save through Christ before the foundation of the world.
That plan is His gospel which includes baptism.
So all those obey the gospel are added to Christ.
The group in Christ were chosen.
Nowhere does this passage teach God chose to give a select few miraculous faith before the foundation of the world.
He chose to save in Christ.
One gets into Christ by obeying His gospel.
You missed corporate election.
God chose the church(corporate) to be saved not cherry picking ndividuals to directly zap them to believe.
Ephesians 5:23,
- for the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the Head of the church and He is the Savior of the body/church
Illustration: a teacher predetermines that anyone who joins the (honors class, church) will go on a special trip. The trip is predestined for the class(corporate, IN Christ) not for individuals chosen beforehand.
Foreknowledge.
God chose based upon those He knew would believe by obeying the plan being added to Chirst.
1Peter 1:2,
- elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ, Grace and peace be multiplied
Calvinist predestination, Biblical predestination,
God chose specific individuals before creation. God chose a group(those in Christ church)
Election is unconditional. Election is conditional upon faith.
Salvation irresistable given. Salvation offered to all. But only given to
Those who respond in faith, John 1:12.
Gods decree determines who believes. Gods foreknowledge sees who will believe.
Supporting verses for free will and Conditional Election
Romans 10:13,
- whoever calls on the Lord will be saved
1 Timothy 2:4,
- God desires all men everywhere to be saved.
Acts 2:40,
- be saved from this perverse generation, (shows human response is needed)
2 Thessalonians 2:13,
- God chose you.... through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth(believing and obeying the gospel)
Titus
Active Member
This is evil.
Unscriptual.
Titus
Active Member
None of these verses specifically tell us how one gets into Christ.
Not one.
I predicted you would fail and you have proven me correct.
Failure.“Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
Try again. Does not teach how God puts one IN Christ.
Galatians 3:27,
- for as many of you as were baptized INTO Christ have put on Christ
Romans 6:3-4,
- do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death
Your dishonesty is showing by you intentionally not posting these verses.
You have a biased agenda.
If you simply taught the Bible you would have included these passages.
But you dont teach Bible you teach calvinism when it suits you.
Then stop teaching Calvinism and no one will ever accuse you of teaching calvinism again.
Stop complaining it's your religion that you embraced and are shoving down my throat.
Then you are wasting your time and everyone else's.
No one needs to hear believe or do anything!!!!
If I'm elected or not. It was already settled before the foundation of the world.
Why dont you realize the vanity of your arguing something that MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE IN EVERYONES PREDETERMINED DESTINY!!!!
@Titus
That being said, a person's answer to God's by water baptism concerning the record given by God of his Son, Jesus Christ puts one into Jesus' religion/faith/teachings, etc. (Galatians 3:26,37; Romans 6:3-5, etc.) We practice what Paul taught us to do:
And follow the example left for us by Ezra and others men of God:
You would do well if you practice this instead of being a "rubber stamp" for the sect from the modern day Church of Christ, a name they stole from the bible, the Spirit-less religion of Barton W. Stone and Alexander Campbell, more so from Campbell then Stone it seems, if history is correct, often it is not, but have bits and pieces of truth. But for sure, this movement started around early 1800's far from Acts 2.
John 1:12
“But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:”
Jesus came unto his own, and his own received him not, BUT...as many as did receive him, TO THEM gave he POWER to do so! Not too hard o understand, again if you have eyes to see, and ears to hear, which those in a Spirit-less religion do not have since they are on their own! Those in such a religion are the blind leading the blind.
Titus, John 1;13 is a commentary on verse 12 from the Spirit of God, get to know Him, it would serve you much better than you Spirit-less religion you are in.
You half way made a small attempt to answer my post, but so small it is not even worth mentioning.
Later...
So, scriptures is not a real reason to you? Then you are not a true biblical noble Berean which all saints should be.
Acts 17:11
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”Titus, the reason why I gave no scriptures teaching faith alone puts one into Christ, is this: There are no works on man's part that puts one into Jesus Christ legally, only God's election of pure grace choses one to be IN CHRIST. (Ephesians 1:4)
That being said, a person's answer to God's by water baptism concerning the record given by God of his Son, Jesus Christ puts one into Jesus' religion/faith/teachings, etc. (Galatians 3:26,37; Romans 6:3-5, etc.) We practice what Paul taught us to do:
2nd Timothy 2:15
“Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.”And follow the example left for us by Ezra and others men of God:
Nehemiah 8:8
“So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.”You would do well if you practice this instead of being a "rubber stamp" for the sect from the modern day Church of Christ, a name they stole from the bible, the Spirit-less religion of Barton W. Stone and Alexander Campbell, more so from Campbell then Stone it seems, if history is correct, often it is not, but have bits and pieces of truth. But for sure, this movement started around early 1800's far from Acts 2.
Water baptism is a NT teaching, and most of the world were never baptized, that leaves about eleven thousand plus years (if the world is around 13, 500 years old since Adam and Eve, which we believe it is, based upon the genealogies recorded in Genesis, where God has hidden the age of the earth within these genealogies.) without any ever being baptized as under the NT teachings. Plus there are many since Christ who were never baptized as taught by the NT, that without question will inherit eternal life, since baptism of itself is not the savior of men, Jesus' blood (death) is the only means of one inheriting eternal life.
That's false teaching. Baptism is commanded to those who believes in Jesus Christ for their surety as the only means of entering into eternal life in the world to come, it certainly is not based upon man's works, including him submitting to water baptism, of itself, it has no saving power, only the blood of Christ does, and no one meets the blood in water. One must first be IN CHRIST by God's election of pure grace, and Christ acting as their surety being the head of an elect body. There are no exceptions as to how one enters into eternal life, it is solely based upon Jesus' faith and obedience for a person appointed by God to be their surety, and if he was, then that person will enter into eternal life in that day, if he was not, then they will not enter into life, regardless what they might have thought were great deeds done in the name of Jesus Christ, Christ will say unto many, depart from me, I "never" knew you. Titus, have another gospel, one under the curse of God, per Paul.
Wrong, already been over this a few times.
Are you blind Titus? Or just dishonest? Or both?! Look at my post above, several of them, I was honest by covering every single scripture you mentioned and more.
This is so wrong, not even close to be true. Yes, election is based upon foreknowledge, and what God foreknew was this: "That if he did not have an election of pure grace, then "NO ONE" would have ever come on their own, impossible!" Why did God have an election among angels? Same reason, for if he did not then they ALL would have left their first estate. Not too deep Titus, very simple to see ~for those who the Spirit of God has opened their eyes to see, but if you are in a Spirit-less religion, then that's' a major problem, for then you are on your own, and that's sure way to end up in errors.
Titus, you have no clue as to what John 1:12 is saying.
John 1:12
“But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:”
Jesus came unto his own, and his own received him not, BUT...as many as did receive him, TO THEM gave he POWER to do so! Not too hard o understand, again if you have eyes to see, and ears to hear, which those in a Spirit-less religion do not have since they are on their own! Those in such a religion are the blind leading the blind.
Titus, John 1;13 is a commentary on verse 12 from the Spirit of God, get to know Him, it would serve you much better than you Spirit-less religion you are in.
You half way made a small attempt to answer my post, but so small it is not even worth mentioning.
Later...
Keep reading.
Ephesians 1:11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, 12 so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
So also is the gospel of salvation through Jesus Christ a NT teaching.
Actually, it was post #187. But as usual, Red, you interjected so much Augustinianism and Calvinism into your discussion as make it nonsensical.
In a very straightforward manner, Paul said, "when you heard the word of truth AND believed in Jesus you were sealed with the Holy Spirit. So it is clear, that the sealing occurred at such a time WHEN you heard and believed. All that Augustinian nonsense of it happening before you were even born is just that, namely, nonsense. That is plain enough for anyone to understand.
Titus
Active Member
You folks? There is only one Christian faith not multiple faiths,
Ephesians 4:5 - One Lord, One faith, One baptism
Complaining about what you yourself identify as? You call yourself that. Now you are complaining that I refer to you as what you have been affirming since I was first introduced to you.
Dont accuse me of name calling. If you dont want to be referred to as a calvanist then stop practicing and teaching their doctrine. You introduced yourself to me as a calvinist now you are complaining that I refer to you as a calvinist. Please.
Already did.
What you mean by this is... " Why dont you answer to every one of my accusations against your teaching"
Because it doesn't necessarily interest me to do so and you will not dictate to me what I will and will not answer according to your demands.
You have no authority to demand I answer any of your questions/accusations.
No truth to this.
The new testament writers tell us when Gods chosen are added to Christ and His body, Galatians 3:26-27.
It never said christians are in Christ's body for all eternity.
That is nowhere taught in the Bible.
Eternity did not always have mankind in it.
God created mankind sometime in the past. He has been eternal forever.
The angels existed before God created mankind. So its impossible that the elect of mankind has always been IN Christ for all eternity.
Your religion makes stuff up.
God can foresee who will be elect but that does not mean they always have been for al, eternity IN Christs body.
Even Christs body had a beginning. It has not always existed in all eternity.
Jesus Himself stated this fact that His body will be established future. Not that if has always been established eternally.
Jesus does teach once He established His church/body it will then exist forevermore.
Matthew 16:18-19,
- on this rock Iwill build My church.... future tense.
Mr. Baker you make up alot of things that to the unlearned may sound credible coming from the Bible.
But you are teaching things that the Bible nowhere teaches.
You are inventing ideas based on human reasoning.
Your hell for example is your imagination not Bible based.
I have already used scripture to refute your mishandling of the scriptures.
Ephesians 2:8-9 refutes unconditional election.
Saved by grace through faith...
Faith is a condition to to be saved by grace, thus grace is conditional.
You cannot understand Ephesians 2:5 since you claim the church body has for all eternity been In Christ is never taught by Jesus Himself.All of the elect have been part of Christ's body from eternity, there has never been a time when they have not been view by God as not part of Christ elect body, he being the head and they his members. How else are you going to understand such scriptures and there are many more, but for now:
Ephesians 2:5
“Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
You teach based on presupposition not context.
More imaginary doctrine that has zero scripture to affirm its authenticity.
Last edited:
It is not so much "deeper" as it is just "changed". I spend a bit of time reading John Gill in my studies. He clearly has a Calvinist view of soteriology. You can detect when he is going to "change" the straightforward reading and meaning of a passage, by his words of introduction "NOT THAT". For example, in his commentary of Acts 2:38 he has:
"for the remission of sins; not that forgiveness of sin could be procured either by repentance, or by baptism"......
Notice his exposition of Mark 16:16:
shall be saved, such receive the remission of their sins a justifying righteousness, the privilege of adoption, a right and meetness for heaven now, and shall be saved in Christ, with an everlasting salvation; not that either faith or baptism, are the procuring causes of salvation:
His "NOT THAT" intro to his analysis is a giveaway that he is going to reject the straightforward message of the passage and change the meaning to make it conform to his bogus soteriology. Such tell tail clues are typical of Calvinist styles of exegesis (actually eisegesis) of passages relating to soteriology.
@Jim
Scriptures have a true biblical sense that we must seek their meaning, in order that scriptures flow together in perfect harmony teaching one cohesive truth from Genesis to Revelation and they will "if" one has the truth on the given subject under consideration. I have given Ephesians 1:13 its true sense and not going to do so again.
Jim, of course you will say that, but take what I said and prove it wrong with others scriptures which we must use when refuting folks errors. Glad you are here, Titus need some help, he's struggling to even come up with words to say.
I knew that it was a matter of time that you would join in since you basically believe as coc do, since you were mentor by Jack Cottrell.
Scriptures have a true biblical sense that we must seek their meaning, in order that scriptures flow together in perfect harmony teaching one cohesive truth from Genesis to Revelation and they will "if" one has the truth on the given subject under consideration. I have given Ephesians 1:13 its true sense and not going to do so again.
Thanks for the corrections and I knew I gave the wrong reference, but forgot to change it before doing another small project.
Jim, of course you will say that, but take what I said and prove it wrong with others scriptures which we must use when refuting folks errors. Glad you are here, Titus need some help, he's struggling to even come up with words to say.
In other words, the Holy Spirit wasn't able to produce scripture with true biblical sense. Therefore, you must change the straightforward meaning of a passage of scripture as produced by the Holy Spirit in order that it flows in perfect harmony with all the other passages that you have changed from the straightforward meaning.
@Titus
Listen carefully: right after telling Peter that flesh and blood has not reveal to him whom Jesus is, but his Father which is in heaven revealed this blessed truth to him ~ and upon THIS ROCK is Christ building his church...the ROCK is the divine revelation from God to sinners is the means in which Christ has, and is building his true church!
Titus, by the very fact you and your sect rejects this divine revelation from heaven to sinners, tells me that you are NOT part of the true church Christ is building...by your own words you are saying I'm NOT part of THAT church!
You might wan to reconsider your own confession, and make it line up with what Christ is teaching here in Matthew 16:13-19. If you refuse, then you shall bear your own sins of rejecting God's word.
Agreed~and it is not RCC, as they want others to believe; it is not found in any particularly sect in Mystery Babylon religious sector part of it. But it is found among the very few (and a few others as well, known only to God) who believe as Jesus taught concerning how he will build his church, which you Mr. Titus have no clue, based on what I have read from you thus far.
Titus, there has always been a church based upon the meaning of the word: "called out ones"......to call out or call together, denotes an assembly. The worshipers of Jehovah or the true God, before the advent of Christ; as the Jewish church,
Acts 7:38
“This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:”Very plain~but, the question we ask you is this: "How does one become part of the church"? The Lord Jesus tell us plainly and it has never change from the OT to the NT, and will never change, regardless how loud you toot your horn and others like you!
Titus. a question for you~what is the rock upon which Jesus is and will build his church? It is right before your eyes, and I'm sure you have no clue what the rock is, and neither do any of the present day so-called church of Christ followers know.
Listen carefully: right after telling Peter that flesh and blood has not reveal to him whom Jesus is, but his Father which is in heaven revealed this blessed truth to him ~ and upon THIS ROCK is Christ building his church...the ROCK is the divine revelation from God to sinners is the means in which Christ has, and is building his true church!
Titus, by the very fact you and your sect rejects this divine revelation from heaven to sinners, tells me that you are NOT part of the true church Christ is building...by your own words you are saying I'm NOT part of THAT church!
You might wan to reconsider your own confession, and make it line up with what Christ is teaching here in Matthew 16:13-19. If you refuse, then you shall bear your own sins of rejecting God's word.
Similar threads
