The Importance of Obedience in Knowing God

[Horatius]

This phrase is thrown around a lot, but I have never found it in Scripture. Would you please show me where I can find this?

It's an interpretation. Baptism is an outward expression of inward faith. It’s a declaration that Jesus is the Lord of your life. It’s a representation of newness, freshness.

Baptism is an ordinance of the church. An outward rite ordained by Jesus Christ symbolizing an inner spiritual condition that already exists. As opposed to a “sacrament” which indicates God doing something to the individual who participates no matter what their heart or spiritual condition might be.

Baptism also symbolizes a moral cleansing. (Acts 22:16, 1Corinthians 16:11)

Baptism is also an act of initiation into the Body of Christ. (1Corinthians 12:13)

Baptism has no saving power. It is a symbol of a salvation experience that has already taken place.

When verses talk about baptism that saves you (1 Peter 3:21) it’s referring to what baptism symbolizes- identification with Jesus. He has separated us from the lost andgiven us new life through His death and resurrection. We are justified by faith alone. (Romans4, 5:1,2)

 

[Doug Brents]

It's an interpretation. Baptism is an outward expression of inward faith. It’s a declaration that Jesus is the Lord of your life. It’s a representation of newness, freshness.

Baptism is an ordinance of the church. An outward rite ordained by Jesus Christ symbolizing an inner spiritual condition that already exists. As opposed to a “sacrament” which indicates God doing something to the individual who participates no matter what their heart or spiritual condition might be.

Baptism also symbolizes a moral cleansing. (Acts 22:16, 1Corinthians 16:11)

Baptism is also an act of initiation into the Body of Christ. (1Corinthians 12:13)

Baptism has no saving power. It is a symbol of a salvation experience that has already taken place.

When verses talk about baptism that saves you (1 Peter 3:21) it’s referring to what baptism symbolizes- identification with Jesus. He has separated us from the lost andgiven us new life through His death and resurrection. We are justified by faith alone. (Romans4, 5:1,2)

You have given no passage of Scripture that states even remotely that baptism is an "outward expression of an inward change". This phrase, and even the concept, is foreign to Scripture, and constitutes a false doctrine.

Can one be saved and not in the Body of Christ? No, that is the definition of saved. So if baptism is initiation into the Body of Christ then it is the point at which salvation is received.
Can a person be morally cleansed and not be saved? No, that is what salvation is all about. So if baptism is the point at which we are morally cleansed then it is the point at which salvation is received.
Yes, baptism is an ordinance of the Church, which Jesus ordained as the point at which we receive salvation, forgiveness, die to sin, are resurrected, and enter into union with Jesus.
Baptism does not have saving power, but when passages like 1 Pet 3:21 refer to baptism saving us, it is because baptism does not just symbolize salvation, but it is the act in which salvation is actually received.

 

[dwight92070]

Actually, my quote of Hebrews 11: 1 is spot on. I even checked it with the Strong's just now. So once again, you are mistaken.

Faith is NOT a mental only concept. It is a HEART ONLY concept, no works are added.

Of course the people in Hebrews 11 "did something". That's because they were ALREADY SAVED BEFORE they did those actions.

In fact, read verse 2 again. Those men did not gain approval because they "did something". They gained approval by the faith they already had before they did anything. Just like Abraham had faith BEFORE he was circumcised, which is also "doing something".

Actually Mark 1:15 agrees with ALL of scripture. The only time "it doesn't" is when you misinterpret those other verses.

You said, " Confession of Jesus as Lord does not flow from having received salvation," It doesn't? You don't currently confess Jesus as your Lord?
I do and I will continue to until I die.
T

 

[dwight92070]

This phrase is thrown around a lot, but I have never found it in Scripture. Would you please show me where I can find this?

That's unbelievable that you don't know the scriptures that support this. You quote them continually. Romans 6:4-7 clearly shows us that baptism is an outward symbolic depiction of what happened in our heart when we were saved.

Colossians 2:12 does the same thing.

Or maybe you think that we actually physically were buried when we were baptized? And that we were actually physically raised from the dead when we were baptized?

No, it was and is SYMBOLIC of what happened INWARDLY - in our HEARTS.
Also, water baptism is done publicly, that is OUTWARDLY, in our physical bodies.

There you have it. Stop pretending that you don't have any idea where this phrase comes from. That's a straw man and you know it.

Horatius is correct. Water baptism is an outward expression of an inward conviction. Live with it.

 

[Horatius]

You have given no passage of Scripture that states even remotely that baptism is an "outward expression of an inward change". This phrase, and even the concept, is foreign to Scripture, and constitutes a false doctrine.

Can one be saved and not in the Body of Christ? No, that is the definition of saved. So if baptism is initiation into the Body of Christ then it is the point at which salvation is received.
Can a person be morally cleansed and not be saved? No, that is what salvation is all about. So if baptism is the point at which we are morally cleansed then it is the point at which salvation is received.
Yes, baptism is an ordinance of the Church, which Jesus ordained as the point at which we receive salvation, forgiveness, die to sin, are resurrected, and enter into union with Jesus.
Baptism does not have saving power, but when passages like 1 Pet 3:21 refer to baptism saving us, it is because baptism does not just symbolize salvation, but it is the act in which salvation is actually received.

Of course you're entitled to your opinion. And I realize it wouldn't matter what I post your opinions not going to change. And the fact of the matter is I'm not trying to change your opinion. I'm only stating mine.

I don't have a problem with baptism I've been baptized I think we all should be baptized. But you're right baptism does not have any saving power. If you accept Jesus as your lord and savior you're saved whether you ever get baptized or not.

That's my opinion. This issue has most likely been hotly debated since internet forums began. I doubt very seriously that's kind of change.

 

[Doug Brents]

Actually, my quote of Hebrews 11: 1 is spot on. I even checked it with the Strong's just now. So once again, you are mistaken.

Faith is NOT a mental only concept. It is a HEART ONLY concept, no works are added.

Of course the people in Hebrews 11 "did something". That's because they were ALREADY SAVED BEFORE they did those actions.

In fact, read verse 2 again. Those men did not gain approval because they "did something". They gained approval by the faith they already had before they did anything. Just like Abraham had faith BEFORE he was circumcised, which is also "doing something".

Heb 11:2 says that by faith, a living, effectual, active, action producing faith the people of old gained approval. They did not gain approval because they had faith in their heart. Faith is not a heart only concept either. If faith does not produce action, then it is not really faith, it is dead and worthless.

Actually Mark 1:15 agrees with ALL of scripture. The only time "it doesn't" is when you misinterpret those other verses.

Your interpretation of it does not.

You said, " Confession of Jesus as Lord does not flow from having received salvation," It doesn't? You don't currently confess Jesus as your Lord?
I do and I will continue to until I die.
T

You deliberately misinterpret what I said, just as you misinterpret Scripture. Sure, a person who is saved CONTINUES to confess Jesus as Lord. But as Rom 10:10 says, a person is not saved before he confesses Jesus, and then confession flows out from the saved soul. Confession leads to salvation.

 

[Doug Brents]

That's unbelievable that you don't know the scriptures that support this. You quote them continually. Romans 6:4-7 clearly shows us that baptism is an outward symbolic depiction of what happened in our heart when we were saved.

Rom 6:1-7 states explicitly that baptism is the point at which we are saved. We cannot be saved and still have our sins on us. We cannot be saved and not be united with Jesus' death and resurrection. These thing happen in baptism, during baptism.

Colossians 2:12 does the same thing.

This passage also states explicitly that spiritual circumcision occurs during baptism, not before.

Or maybe you think that we actually physically were buried when we were baptized? And that we were actually physically raised from the dead when we were baptized?

We are physically buried in water in likeness of how Jesus was buried in the ground, and we arise out of the water in likeness of Jesus' resurrection. The spiritual events occur in response to the physical, not before it.

No, it was and is SYMBOLIC of what happened INWARDLY - in our HEARTS.
Also, water baptism is done publicly, that is OUTWARDLY, in our physical bodies.

There you have it. Stop pretending that you don't have any idea where this phrase comes from. That's a straw man and you know it.

Horatius is correct. Water baptism is an outward expression of an inward conviction. Live with it.

It is not a strawman. It is an honest seeking for the source of a false doctrine that is pervasive among people who claim to be part of the Church. It is almost impossible to find a congregation of the Church in my area that teaches Biblical truth.

 

[dwight92070]

There you go again, misinterpreting scripture. They DID gain approval by the faith in their hearts, BEFORE they did anything. That's what verse 2 says. Because their faith was in agreement with verse 1, they gained approval: assurance of things hoped for, and the conviction of things not seen. There's NO action mentioned here, so why do you insist on adding any action here? Saving faith requires NONE. You should not add to these verses anything that is not there. You also added "action producing faith", which is a violation of scripture itself.

Let it be clearly stated here that simply because I say and have said and will continue to say beliefs DIFFERENT THAN YOURS, you have accused me of: BLATANT REBELLION AGAINST GOD. #206

I think an apology is in order - and a time for you to step back and cool down.

 

[dwight92070]

Rom 6:1-7 states explicitly that baptism is the point at which we are saved. We cannot be saved and still have our sins on us. We cannot be saved and not be united with Jesus' death and resurrection. These thing happen in baptism, during baptism.

This passage also states explicitly that spiritual circumcision occurs during baptism, not before.

We are physically buried in water in likeness of how Jesus was buried in the ground, and we arise out of the water in likeness of Jesus' resurrection. The spiritual events occur in response to the physical, not before it.

It is not a strawman. It is an honest seeking for the source of a false doctrine that is pervasive among people who claim to be part of the Church. It is almost impossible to find a congregation of the Church in my area that teaches Biblical truth.

That's because you don't agree with Biblical truth.

 

[Richard]

Of course you're entitled to your opinion. And I realize it wouldn't matter what I post your opinions not going to change. And the fact of the matter is I'm not trying to change your opinion. I'm only stating mine.

I don't have a problem with baptism I've been baptized I think we all should be baptized. But you're right baptism does not have any saving power. If you accept Jesus as your lord and savior you're saved whether you ever get baptized or not.

That's my opinion. This issue has most likely been hotly debated since internet forums began. I doubt very seriously that's kind of change.

My opinion is Christian obedience is important. So what does the bible say about obedience? That's what really matters. We all have our opinions but Jesus is the truth, And he told us to love one another that way the world will know where his disciples.

The Bible has much to say about obedience. In fact, obedience is an essential part of the Christian faith. Jesus Himself was “obedient unto death, even death on a cross” (Philippians 2:8). For Christians, the act of taking up our cross and following Christ (Matthew 16:24) means obedience. The Bible says that we show our love for Jesus by obeying Him in all things: “If you love Me, keep My commandments” (John 14:15). A Christian who is not obeying Christ’s commands can rightly be asked, “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?” (Luke 6:46).

Obedience is defined as “dutiful or submissive compliance to the commands of one in authority.” Using this definition, we see the elements of biblical obedience. “Dutiful” means it is our obligation to obey God, just as Jesus fulfilled His duty to the Father by dying on the cross for our sin. “Submissive” indicates that we yield our wills to God’s. “Commands” speaks of the Scriptures in which God has clearly delineated His instructions. The “one in authority” is God Himself, whose authority is total and unequivocal. For the Christian, obedience means complying with everything God has commanded. It is our duty to do so.

Having said that, it is important to remember that our obedience to God is not solely a matter of duty. We obey Him because we love Him (John 14:23). Also, we understand that the spirit of obedience is as important as the act of obedience. We serve the Lord in humility, singleness of heart, and love.

Also, we must beware of using a veneer of obedience to mask a sinful heart. Living the Christian life is not all about rules. The Pharisees in Jesus’ time relentlessly pursued acts of obedience to the Law, but they became self-righteous, believing they deserved heaven because of what they had done. They considered themselves worthy before God, who owed them a reward; however, the Bible tells us that, without Christ, even our best, most righteous works are as “filthy rags” (Isaiah 64:6). The Pharisees’ external obedience still lacked something, and Jesus exposed their heart attitude. Their hypocrisy in obeying the “letter of the law” while violating its spirit characterized their lives, and Jesus rebuked them sharply: “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which indeed appear beautiful outside, but inside they are full of dead men’s bones, and of all uncleanness. Even so you also appear righteous to men outwardly, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and iniquity” (Matthew 23:27–28). The Pharisees were obedient in some respects, but they “neglected the weightier matters of the law” (Matthew 23:23, ESV).

Today, we are not called to obey the Law of Moses. That has been fulfilled in Christ (Matthew 5:17). We are to obey the “law of Christ,” which is a law of love (Galatians 6:2; John 13:34). Jesus stated the greatest commands of all: “Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself. All the Law and the prophets hang on these two commandments” (Matthew 22:36–40).

If we love God, we will obey Him. We won’t be perfect in our obedience, but our desire is to submit to the Lord and display good works. When we love God and obey Him, we naturally have love for one another. Obedience to God’s commands will make us light and salt in a dark and tasteless world (Matthew 5:13–16).

Got?

 

[Doug Brents]

There you go again, misinterpreting scripture. They DID gain approval by the faith in their hearts, BEFORE they did anything. That's what verse 2 says.

Heb 11:2 says that by faith the people listed (and everyone else) gained approval from God. By faith! And faith is not a passive, mental/heart only concept. Without action there is no faith. Without taking action in response to intellectual assent the intellectual assent is meaningless.

Because their faith was in agreement with verse 1, they gained approval: assurance of things hoped for, and the conviction of things not seen. There's NO action mentioned here, so why do you insist on adding any action here? Saving faith requires NONE. You should not add to these verses anything that is not there. You also added "action producing faith", which is a violation of scripture itself.

Let it be clearly stated here that simply because I say and have said and will continue to say beliefs DIFFERENT THAN YOURS, you have accused me of: BLATANT REBELLION AGAINST GOD. #206

I said that, not because you disagree with me, but because you defy the very clear and explicit statement of Scripture. Confession of Jesus as Lord results in salvation. Yes, it may continue to flow out of salvation as well, but it initially precedes and results in receiving salvation.

I think an apology is in order - and a time for you to step back and cool down.

I am very cool, calm, and have no emotion whatsoever where you are concerned. I have nothing but Godly love for you, and that is the reason that I continue to try to help you see the truth of God's Word. If I didn't love you, I would let you remain in your rebellion and let your fate be your own business. But I can't stand by and not at least try to rescue you from the delusion that Satan has over most of those who call themselves the Church.

 

[Fellow Traveler]

This is water baptism.

Baptism is the outward expression of inward faith. Baptism is a public declaration that a person is trusting in the person and work of Christ for their salvation. Baptism pictures the death of the old self before we were saved, burial of the old life, and the resurrection of a new life to be lived for the Lord Jesus.

 

[dwight92070]

I think obedience is one of the first steps in knowing God. And that the importance of obedience is so much great that it can't be over emphasized. Christ Himself is its our great illustration of obedience.

He “humbled himself, becoming obedient even unto death, yea, the death of the cross” Phil 2:8

By obedience to Him we are through Him made partakers of His salvation Hebrews 5:9

This act is a supreme test of faith in Christ. Indeed, it is so vitally related that they are in some cases almost synonymous. “Obedience of faith” is a combination used by Paul to express this idea Romans 1:5

Peter designates believers in Christ as “children of obedience” 1 Peter 1:14

I think the bottom line is our faith through obedience Is how we become identified as believers and become a disciple.

It seems your post is a little confusing. If someone doesnt' know God, we can't simply tell them, "If you obey Him, then you'll know Him." In fact, even Jesus Himself did not tell unsaved people "Obey Me and then you'll begin to know Me." Rather He said, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel." Mark 1:15
So someone who does not know God needs to hear about the life and teachings of Jesus, embrace them and Him, repent and believe in them and in Him. Then and only then will they know Him.
Then, after that, they should know and realize that He expects them to obey Him.

Heb 11:2 says that by faith the people listed (and everyone else) gained approval from God. By faith! And faith is not a passive, mental/heart only concept. Without action there is no faith. Without taking action in response to intellectual assent the intellectual assent is meaningless.

I said that, not because you disagree with me, but because you defy the very clear and explicit statement of Scripture. Confession of Jesus as Lord results in salvation. Yes, it may continue to flow out of salvation as well, but it initially precedes and results in receiving salvation.

I am very cool, calm, and have no emotion whatsoever where you are concerned. I have nothing but Godly love for you, and that is the reason that I continue to try to help you see the truth of God's Word. If I didn't love you, I would let you remain in your rebellion and let your fate be your own business. But I can't stand by and not at least try to rescue you from the delusion that Satan has over most of those who call themselves the Church.

So it doesn't matter that you violated the standards on this forum by a direct attack on my character, saying that I am guilty of BLATANT REBELLION AGAINST GOD? Which is why I reported you. Actually I could say the same of you, that you defy the very clear and explicit statement of Scripture. So what makes you right and me wrong? Your false doctrine (my opinion) is your opinion, not gospel. My doctrine (which I believe is correct) is also my opinion, not gospel. I admit that. Are you willing to admit that your doctrine is not gospel, but just your opinion?
If either of our opinions were the gospel, then they would be clearly enunciated in the Bible. And neither of them are, or else this debate about this very issue would not have been going on for centuries - possibly even since the early church existed.
Are you also willing to admit that you could be wrong? I am. But, obviously, I don't think so.

 

[Doug Brents]

So it doesn't matter that you violated the standards on this forum by a direct attack on my character, saying that I am guilty of BLATANT REBELLION AGAINST GOD? Which is why I reported you. Actually I could say the same of you, that you defy the very clear and explicit statement of Scripture.

I did not attack your character. You stated that confession of Jesus as Lord only comes after one is saved, but that is in direct contradiction of what Scripture says. I also said, there are only two ways one can hold that position, ignorance or rebellion. I did not say you have to be in rebellion, just that I do not think you are ignorant.

But as I wrote the last paragraph below, I realized there is a third option, and this is where you (I suspect), and probably most of the Church, are today. You, and they, have bought into a lie of Satan. Satan is out to condemn as many people as he can and drag them to Hell with himself. He is not afraid of people who are still in sin worshiping God. He is not bothered if condemned people live good lives, and do good works, and openly oppose his goals. Because he knows that in the end they are still condemned and will be his in eternity. But he does fear us taking the step that puts us out of his reach and actually into Christ. Sure, he says, go ahead and believe (have intellectual assent) in Jesus. Say He is your Lord, and do good deeds, go to worship service, give to the poor, etc. But don't take the one step that actually puts you in connection with Jesus' blood, and in which the Holy Spirit removes your sins.

So what makes you right and me wrong?

What Scripture says. My opinion is meaningless, and your opinion is meaningless. It is what Scripture says that is important, and we must bend our opinions to what Scripture says, not bend Scripture to fit our opinion.

Your false doctrine (my opinion) is your opinion, not gospel. My doctrine (which I believe is correct) is also my opinion, not gospel. I admit that. Are you willing to admit that your doctrine is not gospel, but just your opinion?
If either of our opinions were the gospel, then they would be clearly enunciated in the Bible. And neither of them are, or else this debate about this very issue would not have been going on for centuries - possibly even since the early church existed.
Are you also willing to admit that you could be wrong? I am. But, obviously, I don't think so.

Could I be wrong? Certainly, I am not infallible. I have been shown to be wrong on several topics on this and other forums, and have admitted my error when it was shown to be such. But the more I study salvation (not just baptism, but the topic of salvation as a whole) the more I come to the conviction that without repentance, confession of Jesus as Lord, and baptism salvation will not be received.

From the evidence in Scripture, there was no debate in the first century over baptism being the point at which salvation was received. I do not know when Satan began teaching that baptism was not necessary, but from what I can tell of Church history it is a recent deception of His. Peter taught that baptism was the point of salvation in 1 Peter and in Acts. Paul taught that baptism was the point of salvation in Acts, Romans, Colossians, Ephesians, and other letters. Philip taught the eunuch that baptism was the point of salvation in Acts 8. Most of the Church taught that salvation was initially received during baptism up until the last century or so. But now Satan has most of the Church believing this different Gospel, that we can be saved without obedience to God, that we can be right with God without following Him. Scripture does not teach any such thing, but because Satan is the master of lies, he has most ministers, ministry schools, and congregations teaching this lie today. I stand against Satan! I stand against his lies! I cannot and will not stand idly by and let this lie be perpetuated without standing against it, and working to convince the ministers of the Word who teach this lie of the truth.

 

[Horatius]

The importance of obedience in knowing God. What an awesome title for a thread. I like what Jesus said about obedience.

On that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you are in Me, and I am in you. 21Whoever has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me. The one who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and reveal Myself to him.” John 16:20–21

Obedience flows from a love relationship with God and cannot be generated by any other motivating force. Jesus maintained his own unique fellowship with the Father through that responsive relationship with him portrayed as obedience. We too maintain our fellowship with Jesus and the Father by responding to his words and teaching with obedience.

 

[Doug Brents]

The importance of obedience in knowing God. What an awesome title for a thread. I like what Jesus said about obedience.

On that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you are in Me, and I am in you. 21Whoever has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me. The one who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and reveal Myself to him.” John 16:20–21

Obedience flows from a love relationship with God and cannot be generated by any other motivating force. Jesus maintained his own unique fellowship with the Father through that responsive relationship with him portrayed as obedience. We too maintain our fellowship with Jesus and the Father by responding to his words and teaching with obedience.

The one who has Jesus' commandments and says he loves Jesus but does not keep His commandments does not really love Jesus, and so the Love of the Father is not on him. But the one who has His commandments and does keep them really does love Jesus. The one who loves Jesus has faith in Jesus, and does what He says. If you don't do what He says, you don't really love Him.

 

[Horatius]

The one who has Jesus' commandments and says he loves Jesus but does not keep His commandments does not really love Jesus, and so the Love of the Father is not on him. But the one who has His commandments and does keep them really does love Jesus. The one who loves Jesus has faith in Jesus, and does what He says. If you don't do what He says, you don't really love Him.

That's what the bible teaches. Jesus said it... I believe it.

 

[Doug Brents]

That's what the bible teaches. Jesus said it... I believe it.

My sentiments exactly. And so it is the one who demonstrates his love through obedience that is saved, as the Holy Spirit said through the Hebrew writer, Jesus "became the source of eternal salvation for all those who obey Him" (Heb 5:9). It is not just saying we love Him, but loving Him to the point of obeying Him that leads to salvation in Him.

 

[dwight92070]

The one who has Jesus' commandments and says he loves Jesus but does not keep His commandments does not really love Jesus, and so the Love of the Father is not on him. But the one who has His commandments and does keep them really does love Jesus. The one who loves Jesus has faith in Jesus, and does what He says. If you don't do what He says, you don't really love Him.

When I was repentant and first believed in Jesus at the age of 21, God gave me the assurance that I was saved. How did I know? I was reading Jesus' words in the Beatitudes, weeping (I had just read, "Blessed are those who mourn"), and I came to "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied." Matthew 5:6 Jesus was saying to me, "This is exactly what you are doing and you are saved." I didn't realize it at the time, but I was repenting in my heart and in my spirit of looking anywhere else, besides looking at Jesus, for purpose and the meaning of life. That was my primary sin, even though I knew I had many other sins besides that. Somehow I knew that if I was saved, that I would also know what the purpose and meaning of life is.

I grew up generally going to a Baptist church, where being born again or being saved was "harped on" almost weekly by the pastor. However, he was not real good at explaining how one could be born again or saved. And I was never that curious to even find out - UNTIL, when I left home at 19, it wasn't long before I found myself praying a lot.

After 2 years, I was asking myself, "How can I know that I am saved?" I made an appointment with a pastor in downtown San Antonio - to ask him that question. He didn't seem to have the answer. So I went back to my barracks disappointed. But God used thoughts that I believe He put in my head to direct me. These were my thoughts: If I want to know that I am saved, that I'm a Christian, I must read about the life and teachings of the founder of Christianity - Jesus. I knew that information was in the Bible, but I didn't know where. So I asked the chaplain if he knew where in the Bible that it speaks of the life and teachings of Jesus. He knew - Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John

I began "soaking up" Matthew, and by the time I reached Matthew 5:6, I was saved, I was born again, I knew the purpose and meaning of life. And I knew that ALL of those things had EVERYTHING to do with Jesus Himself. He WAS SALVATION, He was the One who gave me the NEW BIRTH, He was THE PURPOSE AND MEANING OF LIFE. From that day til now, I have NEVER doubted what Jesus did. I knew He saved me, forgave all my sin, made me born again, and showed me the meaning and purpose of life.

So when anyone says that you can't have salvation, the new birth, Christ dwelling in you by His Spirit, forgiveness of sins, or know the meaning of life, without getting baptized, I know they are dissing Jesus Himself, because the Bible is very clear. Jesus PERSONALLY IS ALL of those things - the IMPERSONAL CEREMONY of baptism is NONE of those things, even though I believe ALL new disciples should obey the Lord and be baptized.

About 2 weeks later, I was baptized in water. I didn't even know until I finished reading the 4 gospels that Jesus commanded His apostles to baptize new disciples. The main reason I was baptized was because I read that Jesus was baptized, and I wanted to follow Him. But I know God honored that. I also knew that His apostles were baptizing new disciples of Jesus throughout His ministry. And I considered myself a new disciple of Jesus.

 

[Doug Brents]

When I was repentant and first believed in Jesus at the age of 21, God gave me the assurance that I was saved. How did I know? I was reading Jesus' words in the Beatitudes, weeping (I had just read, "Blessed are those who mourn"), and I came to "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied." Matthew 5:6 Jesus was saying to me, "This is exactly what you are doing and you are saved." I didn't realize it at the time, but I was repenting in my heart and in my spirit of looking anywhere else, besides looking at Jesus, for purpose and the meaning of life. That was my primary sin, even though I knew I had many other sins besides that. Somehow I knew that if I was saved, that I would also know what the purpose and meaning of life is.

I grew up generally going to a Baptist church, where being born again or being saved was "harped on" almost weekly by the pastor. However, he was not real good at explaining how one could be born again or saved. And I was never that curious to even find out - UNTIL, when I left home at 19, it wasn't long before I found myself praying a lot.

After 2 years, I was asking myself, "How can I know that I am saved?" I made an appointment with a pastor in downtown San Antonio - to ask him that question. He didn't seem to have the answer. So I went back to my barracks disappointed. But God used thoughts that I believe He put in my head to direct me. These were my thoughts: If I want to know that I am saved, that I'm a Christian, I must read about the life and teachings of the founder of Christianity - Jesus. I knew that information was in the Bible, but I didn't know where. So I asked the chaplain if he knew where in the Bible that it speaks of the life and teachings of Jesus. He knew - Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John

I began "soaking up" Matthew, and by the time I reached Matthew 5:6, I was saved, I was born again, I knew the purpose and meaning of life. And I knew that ALL of those things had EVERYTHING to do with Jesus Himself. He WAS SALVATION, He was the One who gave me the NEW BIRTH, He was THE PURPOSE AND MEANING OF LIFE. From that day til now, I have NEVER doubted what Jesus did. I knew He saved me, forgave all my sin, made me born again, and showed me the meaning and purpose of life.

So when anyone says that you can't have salvation, the new birth, Christ dwelling in you by His Spirit, forgiveness of sins, or know the meaning of life, without getting baptized, I know they are dissing Jesus Himself, because the Bible is very clear. Jesus PERSONALLY IS ALL of those things - the IMPERSONAL CEREMONY of baptism is NONE of those things, even though I believe ALL new disciples should obey the Lord and be baptized.

About 2 weeks later, I was baptized in water. I didn't even know until I finished reading the 4 gospels that Jesus commanded His apostles to baptize new disciples. The main reason I was baptized was because I read that Jesus was baptized, and I wanted to follow Him. But I know God honored that. I also knew that His apostles were baptizing new disciples of Jesus throughout His ministry. And I considered myself a new disciple of Jesus.

As an aside, thank you for your service to this country. What branch were you in, and what was your MOS?

What you feel, what you think, what you imagine, etc. has absolutely nothing to do with what God makes happen. You can believe you were saved all day long, but if God doesn't know you, then you were not saved. Yes, salvation is in Christ alone, but if you are not in Christ, then you do not have salvation. There will be many at Judgement who think they were saved, but Jesus will tell them that they were never "in" Him; they were never saved.

Scripture is very clear how we enter into Christ: through baptism. Not through thinking, not through saying a prayer, not through asking God to come into our heart, etc., but only through baptism (Gal 3:26-27, Rom 6:1-7, Col 2:11-14, Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38, John 3:5).