Johann
Well-known member
Now is your opportunity to show-with Scriptures-that these "people" are in error and can rightly divide the Devarim of YHVH.
The Hypostatic Union- the 2 Natures in Christ
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civic
Well-known member
Well here is a newsflash. For over 40 years I have believed and taught ad agree with the article you quoted as its saying the exact same thing I have been saying for decades.
Its ironic that when I say the same thing as your article you do not agree with me but those who disagree with me. I'm 100% orthodox just like your article.
Read my OP in this thread. I taught the same thing on another forum most of us here are from for the past 20 years.I developed that OP from the other forum through debating and defending the biblical and orthodox position of the Chalcedon Creed and the 2 natures in Christ.
I'm probably the most orthodox person here when it comes to Christology and the Trinity. I'm just stating the facts.
Hypostatic Union
1. Jesus is a person. (1 Tim 2:5)
2. Jesus, the Person, has two natures- Divine and human (John 1:1, 14, 1 Timothy 3:16): Divine and human. This is the Hypostatic Union.( Col 2:9, Heb 1:3,2:16)
3. The Communicatio Idiomatum (Communication of the Properties) states that the attributes of His Divine nature and human nature are both ascribed to the one Person of Jesus, the Divine Son who is the 2nd Person of the Trinity. So Jesus can exhibit attributes of Divinity (Omnipresence, Omniscience, Omnipotence, . John 2:23, 3:13, 8:58, He was prayed to in Acts 7:59, John 14:13, He was is worshiped Matt 2:2:11, Rev 5:13-14) and at the same time exhibit attributes of His humanity( He was tempted, ate, prayed,wept, grew in wisdom and stature,was anointed,was baptized, the Father was greater, didn’t know the day or the hour of His Return, He cried My God my God why has Thou forsaken Me, He died etc.). The communicatio idiomatum does not mean that any part of the Divine nature was communicated to the human nature. The Creed of Chalcedon declares that : “in two natures, without confusion, without change, without division, without separation, the distinction of natures being by no means taken away by the union, but rather the property of each nature being preserved, and concurring in one persona and one subsistence, not parted or divided into two person, but one and the same Son, and only begotten, God the Word, the Lord Jesus Christ.
4. The Man(anthropos) Jesus is what we perceive (if we were there 2000 years ago in Israel) and through the Man we encounter the Divine nature (Jesus knowing all things, is on earth while in heaven, answers prayer, forgiving sins, etc.).
5. The Person of Jesus will always be both Divine and human. (John 1:1,14,20:28, 1 John 5:20, 1 Timothy 2:5) Those who deny this fact are the spirit of antichrist. (1 John 4:1-4,2 John 7)
6. The Divine Nature is within the Trinity.(Father, Son and Holy Spirit)
7. Since the Person of Jesus claims the attributes of Divinity(John 3:13,8:58,Matthew 9:2,12:8), then the Person of Jesus is a member of the Trinity.( John 14-16, Math 28:19)
Anything said of either of Christ's two natures applies to the one Person of Christ, so that is how it is said that Christ died on the cross. The term "hypostatic union" refers to the two natures united in the one Person, so anything said of those two natures in the one Person applies to the whole Person. So we see that the Person of Christ is both God and man. The phrase hypostatic union was adopted by the general council at Chalcedon 451 AD. That council declared that the union of two natures is real (against Arius), not a mere indwelling of God in a man (against Nestorius), with a rational soul (against Apollinaris), and that in Christ’s Divine nature remains unchanged (against Eutyches).
We need to look to the Monothelite Controversy which had to deal with whether there was one or two wills/minds in the person of Christ. The outcome was that there were two; one human and one divine with the human subjected to the divine. The eternal Son of God did not assume a part of a human nature without a mind, without a will, without human activity, but He assumed all the things that were planted in our nature by God.
Now then, to act (or in this case, speak) is the work of a person, but the form or nature is the cause of this action; for each person acts in accord with the form or nature which it has. A difference in causes (natures) produces a difference in effects (actions). Therefore, where there are different natures, there are also different activities. So in the one Person of Christ there are two natural actions, the divine and the human, each of which has its own essential attributes, functions, and actions. Jesus was thirty years old according to His human nature (Luke 3:23); according to His divine nature He could say: "Before Abraham was born, I am" (John 8:58). The question is did both natures know this and communicate it to the Person. The answer is yes because the divine nature with its corresponding divine will willed the human nature to respond in such a fashion in keeping with Christ's office and ministry. In the text regarding Mark 13:32, we have a slightly different situation here. Christ is acting (speaking) from His human nature, but, this time, the divine will does not allow the human will access to this knowledge. For this information is not to be published on earth. Therefore, as man, Christ cannot answer the question. In the works pertaining to the office of Christ as Prophet, Priest, and King both natures act in conjunction with each other, each nature doing what is peculiar to the same. The book of Hebrews goes into great detail with these offices.
hope this helps !!!
Johann
Well-known member
Not at all-you made a assertion-now prove it wrong-with Scriptures, rightly dividing.I didn't attack any person.
Accusing someone of attacking them when they didn't is a form of attack.
civic
Well-known member
Maybe you can prove it without any cut and pastes but by your own study with the bible and your own words.
Lets see you rightly divide Gods word first. I know without any doubt whatsoever @dizerner can, no ifs ands or butts about it. He is very well studied and can just type what he believes and knows without any outside references.
Anthropomorphism. See Post # 892.
Everyone has a soul so souls are an attribute of human nature.
Not sure about that.
Diserner
Well-known member
Yeah, I would be careful with that.
When God says he has a face or a hand, although you could say he is using metaphor, I still believe it is meant to convey actual meaning.
A hand means God's interaction, a face means God's character.
When it comes to a soul, we don't really have a justification to take it as a mere metaphor.
At that point we could call anything a metaphor, and we've got to see where to draw the line.
Can you tell us the difference between your definitions of God's Soul and God's Spirit?
Johann
Well-known member
You could have saved yourself the trouble in posting this long article to me brother-I have my sources-and you have yours. A whole bookshelf as far as I remember.
I am for the "underdogs"-less vaunting and a whole lot more of humility.
Shalom.
J.
civic
Well-known member
It’s not an article it’s my own work and study
Johann
Well-known member
Says the man who is doing a lot of cut and paste-I even know where you get your information from-online.
But this is my Saturday-I am listening to anointed preaching and teachings at the moment and you are not going to spoil it.
Shalom.
J.
Then that's a complement from @Johann in that he recognizes the quality of your work to be at the level of an article.
Complete
Well-known member
'And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, (body)
and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; (spirit)
and man became a living soul.' (the combination of spirit and body = a living soul)
(Gen 2:7)
'All the while my breath is in me, (a living soul)
and the spirit of God is in my nostrils; (spirit)
My lips shall not speak wickedness, nor my tongue utter deceit,
(Job 27:3)
' The Spirit of God hath made me,
and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.' (spirit, body= living soul)
(Job 33:4)
Soul = The whole person energised by life.
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Diserner
Well-known member
The verse is cool but this seems a little strange.
I like the soul as mind, will and emotions.
That's great for humans. Now what about God? What is your opinion about the God has a literal Soul doctrine that sawdust and GZ are promoting?'And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, (body)
and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; (spirit)
and man became a living soul.' (the combination of spirit and body = soul)
(Gen 2:7)
'All the while my breath is in me,
and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;
My lips shall not speak wickedness, nor my tongue utter deceit.
(Job 27:3)
It seems to me that the our soul connects the physical with the spiritual. Since God has no physicality to connect to (except for Jesus) then God is pure Spirit as the good book says.
Diserner
Well-known member
Now the just shall live by faith; But if anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him. (Heb. 10:38 NKJ)
Can you explain to me your justification to take this as metaphorical from the context.
Diserner
Well-known member
Why is the description like this then?
and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Thess. 5:23 NKJ)
With your definition it should say this:
and may your whole soul, the spirit and body, be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Thess. 5:23 NKJ)
Complete
Well-known member
Hi @dizerner,
Paul is anticipating the return of the Lord here, and desires that those to whom he wrote should remain alive and well at His (Christ's) coming. The whole person (spirit, soul & body) intact and alive, therefore complete. The spirit and body, forming a living soul, therefore requiring no resurrection, being alive, not having experienced death.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
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Complete
Well-known member
'By which (the Spirit) also He went and preached
unto the spirits (angelic beings) in prison;
Which sometime were disobedient,
when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah,
while the ark was a preparing,
wherein few, that is, eight souls (i.e., living beings)
were saved by water.
(1Pet. 3:19-20)
unto the spirits (angelic beings) in prison;
Which sometime were disobedient,
when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah,
while the ark was a preparing,
wherein few, that is, eight souls (i.e., living beings)
were saved by water.
(1Pet. 3:19-20)
