The Hypostatic Union- the 2 Natures in Christ

[praise_yeshua]

No he doesn't. As much as you might claim to understand what he is saying, the fact is, you are completely off base.

You are the one who is all over the place. One minute Christ had a spiritual body while here on earth that supposedly gives us life (as you interpret 1Cor.15:45), next saying the life is in the blood. Spiritual bodies don't have blood and as you rightly pointed out the the blood is not part of the Resurrection .

The life of the FLESH... is in the blood of man. I was very clear about what I said. Very clear. You're the one "mudding the water". Not me.

Strewth. Adam sinned. If you can't understand sinning is faithlessness, I give up.

Yes. Adam sinned. However, Adam believed the promise of God's forgiveness. That is faith.

By your own measure, you sin. Thusly you're not faithful.

But you claim He was different from the First Adam when he walked this earth because he was a life giving spirit instead of a living soul. The fact that could not occur until after His Resurrection and Ascension goes over your head again and again. You fail to see Christ lowered Himself to the point of being exactly like the First Adam as he was originally created in every way. He had no advantage over the First Adam because He chose to come into this world in that manner and walk as Adam should have walked, in complete reliance upon God.

I mean seriously, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. ZERO....

Jesus is consistently referenced throughout theology as the "God man". He was unique in the incarnation. He wasn't solely man. That is why we are discussing the Hypostatic Union. The 2 natures are COMBINED in a single Person. Geesh....

Jesus was unique but you're insisting that the Incarnation robbed Jesus of Divinity. Scriptures such as this prove you wrong.

 

[civic]

The life of the FLESH... is in the blood of man. I was very clear about what I said. Very clear. You're the one "mudding the water". Not me.



Yes. Adam sinned. However, Adam believed the promise of God's forgiveness. That is faith.

By your own measure, you sin. Thusly you're not faithful.



I mean seriously, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. ZERO....

Jesus is consistently referenced throughout theology as the "God man". He was unique in the incarnation. He wasn't solely man. That is why we are discussing the Hypostatic Union. The 2 natures are COMBINED in a single Person. Geesh....

Jesus was unique but you're insisting that the Incarnation robbed Jesus of Divinity. Scriptures such as this prove you wrong.

Amen

 

[GeneZ]

He didn't 'acquire' His second nature, He has always been the same, yesterday, today and forever. He only needed a body to become as a human person.

Hebrews 10:5
Therefore, when He came into the world, He said: “Sacrifice and offering You did not desire, But a body You have prepared for Me.

His two natures are revealed in the Torah...

The Jews referred to one that took on flesh later on as the "Lord God of Israel."
After all, when Jesus comes back He is going to rule Israel while sitting on the Throne of David.
The Jews who knew their Bible understood the Millennium. That is why Jews asked Jesus when the
kingdom of God was to begin on earth.

Here are some passages that plainly state that "Jehovah" of Israel has two natures in union.
But, having no body before the Incarnation!

'You will eat the old supply and clear out the old because of the new. Moreover, ​

I will make My dwelling among you, and My soul will not reject you.'I will also ​

walk among you and be your God, and you shall be My people." Lev 26:10-12​

​

​

​

And they began to remove the foreign gods from their midst and to serve Jehovah, ​

so that his soul became impatient because of the trouble of Israel. Jdges 10:16​

​

​

​

Jehovah himself examines the righteous one as well as the wicked one, and anyone ​

loving violence his soul certainly hates." Ps 11:5​

​

​

​

“Bring no more futile sacrifices; Incense is an abomination to Me. The New Moons, ​

the Sabbaths, and the calling of assemblies— I cannot endure iniquity and the sacred ​

meeting. Your New Moons and your appointed feasts My soul hates; They are a trouble ​

to Me, I am weary of bearing them.. Isa 1:13-14​

Jehovah (spirit) is not soul. ... And, soul is not Jehovah!

​

But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father ​

in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. God is spirit, and those ​

who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”​

​

John 4:23-24​

 

[GeneZ]

SEMINAR_04 - THE PERSON OF CHRIST
“For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.”
~ Colossians 2:9

1. The Person of Christ

a. “Two great presuppositions to the gospel are the doctrine of God and the doctrine of
man” – J Gresham Machen – They are brought together in this fundamental of Christ

b. 52% of Americans think Jesus was created; 40% deny this fundamental. 70% think it
doesn’t matter – because God accepts worship no matter what you believe.

c. It is wrong to think, “Christ is anything you want him to be.” Don’t be agnostic.

d. “How do you know?!” Bible! - Historical creeds, the Roman Church, the great Schism

i. Creeds are missing the gospel of the grace of God, but they synthesize “who”

ii. All of the important counsels, creeds, conflicts about deity were published early

e. Everyone knows that Jesus was a man (ancient heresy excepted) – 1 Tim 2:5

f. The debate is over Jesus Christ being God – and we see this in every fundamental

2. The Teaching

a. People make mistakes here, b/c this is not taught! Liberal scholars toy with it… don’t!

i. Hypostatic Union – Jesus is God. Jesus is Man. Jesus is both. Col 2:9, 1Tim 3:16

ii. Jesus is one person with two natures/beings - different than you!

b. Jesus is Man – 1 Tim 2:5; he was born, he has flesh, he lived walked and was tempted

i. As man he was unremarkable –no different than any other yet no sin – Heb 4:15

c. Jesus is God at the same time – John 20:28, Matt 13:41; Psa 107:23-28 (Luke 8:24)

i. He put on man. He was always God. He is eternal, immortal, unchanging, perfect
d. You must know the attributes/natures of both God and man

i. All treasures of wisdom and knowledge are found where? In Christ - Col 2:2-3

ii. His deity was not diminished/decreased/removed; his humanity was added

3. Beware!

a. Without this fundamental we do not know Christ, but also no God and Saviour -Ti 2:13

b. Kenosis – taught (knowingly or not) by grace teachers – to become man, deity sacrificed

i. Phil 2:6-7 – made ‘no reputation’ is not ‘emptying’ or ‘laying aside the use of’

ii. The Father humbled himself – Ps 113:6; the Spirit humbled himself – 1 Cor 6:19

iii. No reputation is how people see you, not a change in his deity attributes/nature

c. ‘Jesus stopped being God momentarily’, how? God is eternal! What of Godhead Mt 27:46

i. The Godhead never changed, never stopped being true, begin and end, Almighty

ii. He could not die as God, and he could not die for our sins as man!

d. “Jesus needed faith” – Faith comes by – Rom 10:17, Jesus was the ... John 14:6

i. Faith and faithfulness are not the same. Truth came by him not to him – Jo 1:17
Christ is the object of faith – John 14:1, Acts 16:31; The Word can see all.

e. God manifest in the flesh is not you! Not only Jordan, but BBS, and others err in 1Ti 3:16

4. Conclusion
a. How can he give eternal life without being fully God – Rom 6:23
b. What does the mystery of Christ matter if you preach a different Christ? Body of Christ?
c. To be a Christian means you believe Jesus is a man in history, and is God for all time.
d. Mid-Acts Pauline dispensationalism is established (because we are Christians) upon the
teaching of the person of Christ being fully God, fully man.

Shalom.

Too many confuse what He is as revealed in the Creeds... "What He now is."

With what He had to make Himself to become in order to be able to die as our substitute.
Without making Himself become fully as a man? We would have no atonement!

For He had to die as a man in order to atone for all men.

And? If He manifested Himself as God during his earthly walk?
There could be no death on the Cross.

He acknowledged that He is God.
But refused to be empowered as being God until He finished the Work given Him on the Cross.

That is where the confusion comes in until His purpose to be born as a man is understood.


grace and peace ..............

 

[TibiasDad]

A few more

I think you need a bigger bookshelf…

Doug

 

[synergy]

His two natures are revealed in the Torah...

The Jews referred to one that took on flesh later on as the "Lord God of Israel."
After all, when Jesus comes back He is going to rule Israel while sitting on the Throne of David.
The Jews who knew their Bible understood the Millennium. That is why Jews asked Jesus when the
kingdom of God was to begin on earth.

Here are some passages that plainly state that "Jehovah" of Israel has two natures in union.
But, having no body before the Incarnation!

'You will eat the old supply and clear out the old because of the new. Moreover, ​

I will make My dwelling among you, and My soul will not reject you.'I will also ​

walk among you and be your God, and you shall be My people." Lev 26:10-12​

​

​

​

And they began to remove the foreign gods from their midst and to serve Jehovah, ​

so that his soul became impatient because of the trouble of Israel. Jdges 10:16​

​

​

​

Jehovah himself examines the righteous one as well as the wicked one, and anyone ​

loving violence his soul certainly hates." Ps 11:5​

​

​

​

“Bring no more futile sacrifices; Incense is an abomination to Me. The New Moons, ​

the Sabbaths, and the calling of assemblies— I cannot endure iniquity and the sacred ​

meeting. Your New Moons and your appointed feasts My soul hates; They are a trouble ​

to Me, I am weary of bearing them.. Isa 1:13-14​

Jehovah (spirit) is not soul. ... And, soul is not Jehovah!

​

But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father ​

in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. God is spirit, and those ​

who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”​

​

John 4:23-24​

You do realize that scripture also refers to God as having a face (Lev. 20:6; Num. 6:25), an eye (Deut. 11:12; Psa. 34:15), a hand (Exod. 7:5; Isa. 23:11), an arm (Psa. 89:10), etc... But, God is a Spirit (John 4:24) and is not made up of human parts. Biblically, these qualities of God are all known as anthropomorphisms. They are used in Scripture by authors to more fully communicate what God is doing, but they are not to be taken literally, as if God had an actual human body, eye, hand, or foot, etc. The same thing goes for a human soul. They merely assist us to understand to some extent what would otherwise not be understandable to us as humans.

Let's see if these Biblical facts will make you go mute again.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I think you need a bigger bookshelf…

Doug

Bookshelves....

 

[praise_yeshua]

You do realize that scripture also refers to God as having a face (Lev. 20:6; Num. 6:25), an eye (Deut. 11:12; Psa. 34:15), a hand (Exod. 7:5; Isa. 23:11), an arm (Psa. 89:10), etc... But, God is a Spirit (John 4:24) and is not made up of human parts. Biblically, these qualities of God are all known as anthropomorphisms. They are used in Scripture by authors to more fully communicate what God is doing, but they are not to be taken literally, as if God had an actual human body, eye, hand, or foot, etc. The same thing goes for a human soul. They merely assist us to understand to some extent what would otherwise not be understandable to us as humans.

Let's see if these Biblical facts will make you go mute again.

Correct. They are limitation but a good example is the "Word" of God that goes out of my "mouth".

"Words" don't require a "mouth". In fact, the Word of God is Eternal. Transcendent.

 

[civic]

I think you need a bigger bookshelf…

Doug

Did you read any of the titles I’m sure you would endorse many of them pastor

 

[praise_yeshua]

Did you read any of the titles I’m sure you would endorse many of them pastor

I didn't see a "Edersheim" book....


A good read. Sample below. Not always exacting but I can't help but feel his words.

Alfred Edersheim: Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah - Christian Classics Ethereal Library

www.ccel.org

 

[civic]

I didn't see a "Edersheim" book....


A good read. Sample below. Not always exacting but I can't help but feel his words.

Alfred Edersheim: Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah - Christian Classics Ethereal Library

www.ccel.org

It’s in a box lol but I do have it

 

[sawdust]

Are you saying that Christ always had a created human soul?

How about his personhood? Did he "become as a human person" in addition to his Divine Personhood so that he's actually two persons?

No and no.

Jesus is one person with two natures divine and human, always has been, always will be. He is unchanging. You want to add a human soul to Him at the Incarnation? All He needed was a body. Then, by refusing to utilize His own Deity, He became for all intents and purposes just like a man, just like Adam was created.

 

[civic]

No and no.

Jesus is one person with two natures divine and human, always has been, always will be. He is unchanging. You want to add a human soul to Him at the Incarnation?

You don’t want to add a human soul at His Incarnation?

He surely was not human before. So is being human require a human soul ? Yes or no

 

[sawdust]

Amazing what we are reading from “ professing “ Trinitarians . The unbiblical idea The eternal God always had 2 natures.

They don’t understand anthropomorphic language. God has eyes, ears, hands etc lol.

So you are saying the Trinity didn't exist until the Incarnation? Afterall, if the Lord Jesus was not two natures prior, then He was no different to the Father. He would have been Deity only and that is the Father. Also He would have had to change His personhood as His person isn't Deity alone but Deity and humanity in one person. That would mean He is mutable.

 

[sawdust]

I have this many in boxes with no room on my shelves Most pastors that visit me say I have a better library than they do in their office.

Psalm 23

There are those who know the book, there are those who know the Shepherd.

 

[civic]

So you are saying the Trinity didn't exist until the Incarnation? Afterall, if the Lord Jesus was not two natures prior, then He was no different to the Father. He would have been Deity only and that is the Father. Also He would have had to change His personhood as His person isn't Deity alone but Deity and humanity in one person. That would mean He is mutable.

The Trinity prior to the Incarnation was only spirit. God is spirit. Only at the Incarnation did the Son take on a second nature , not prior

 

[civic]

Psalm 23

There are those who know the book, there are those who know the Shepherd.

I know the book much better than I know all my library

 

[sawdust]

You don’t want to add a human soul at His Incarnation?

He surely was not human before. So is being human require a human soul ? Yes or no

We are souls, created in the image and likeness of God, specifically God the Son who is Deity and humanity in one person, unchanging.

If you had no human soul you would not exist.

 

[civic]

We are souls, created in the image and likeness of God, specifically God the Son who is Deity and humanity in one person, unchanging.

If you had no human soul you would not exist.

Jesus had no human soul prior to being conceived in Mary’s womb, that’s where His human soul was created.

Next

 

[sawdust]

The Trinity prior to the Incarnation was only spirit. God is spirit. Only at the Incarnation did the Son take on a second nature , not prior

If Father, Son and Spirit were all the same prior to the incarnation, then what made them three distinct persons? You have them all exactly the same, Spirit only.