The Hypostatic Union- the 2 Natures in Christ

[Complete]

I do in the sense of what death means by this definition. The separation of the body from the soul/spirit. His body was dead and His soul/spirit was no longer in His body. So by that definition yes.

Hello @civic,

I don't want to derail this thread, but I would ask you to explain (in a separate thread) why you join 'soul' with 'spirit' at the death of the body, as though both go back to God who gave it; when only the spirit (or breath of life) is said to return to God; for the soul is the combination of both body and spirit, the body being energised by life at the entrance of 'the breath of life' (or spirit) at birth. So at death the soul (or whole person) dies, when the spirit (or breath of life) of man departs to go back to God who gave it, and man becomes a dead soul, which only the power of the resurrection can raise to life once more.

Though the believer is reckoned by God to be 'asleep in Christ', having the promise of life, resurrection life, in Christ Jesus their Lord. Not so the unbeliever.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[synergy]

'For what the law could not do,
in that it was weak through the flesh,
God sending His Own Son
in the likeness of sinful flesh,
and for sin,
condemned sin in the flesh:'
(Rom.8:3)

'But made Himself of no reputation,
and took upon Him the form of a servant,
and was made in the likeness of men:'
(Php.2:7)

'For we have not an high priest
which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities;
but was in all points tempted like as we are,
yet without sin.'
(Heb 4:15)

You highlighted "the likeness of men". Because Christ's Personhood is purely Divine and because only in Christ does the full Godhead indwell bodily then Christ is "like" man and never exactly as other men.

 

[synergy]

Hello @civic,

I don't want to derail this thread, but I would ask you to explain (in a separate thread) why you join 'soul' with 'spirit' at the death of the body, as though both go back to God who gave it; when only the spirit (or breath of life) is said to return to God; for the soul is the combination of both body and spirit, the body being energised by life at the entrance of 'the breath of life' (or spirit) at birth. So at death the soul (or whole person) dies, when the spirit (or breath of life) of man departs to go back to God who gave it, and man becomes a dead soul, which only the power of the resurrection can raise to life once more.

Though the believer is reckoned by God to be 'asleep in Christ', having the promise of life, resurrection life, in Christ Jesus their Lord. Not so the unbeliever.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

There are examples of souls in Heaven even before the Resurrection. Rev 20:4 comes immediately to mind.

 

[civic]

There are examples of souls in Heaven even before the Resurrection. Rev 20:4 comes immediately to mind.

And Steven just like Jesus said into Thy hands I commit my spirit upon his death. Absent from the body, present with the Lord.

 

[Complete]

There are examples of souls in Heaven even before the Resurrection. Rev 20:4 comes immediately to mind.

And I saw thrones,
and they sat upon them,
and judgment was given unto them:
and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded
for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God,
and which had not worshipped the beast,
neither his image,
neither had received his mark
upon their foreheads, or in their hands;
and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.'
(Rev 20:4)

Hello @synergy,

Thank you. This was following the first resurrection, coming before the reign of Christ.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[GeneZ]

Does this mean you think the way we see Him in the Transfiguration is not the way we shall see Him in glory? I've always thought it was a prophetic glimpse into the Resurrection body. I don't see Christ actually receiving the glory at this time but is confirmation in the present of what is to come.

Is your view of the Transfiguration different?

He did not have His Heavenly Body that could only be given after His death, burial, resurrection, and ASCENSION! ....

​

​

As he was praying, the appearance of his face changed, and his clothes became as bright ​

as a flash of lightning. Two men, Moses and Elijah, appeared in glorious splendor, ​

talking with Jesus. Luke 9:29-30​

Even Moses and Elijah were also shining in glory along his side!

Jesus had to first ascend to Heaven and be glorified to receive His glorious New Body that is everlasting for eternal life!

​

​

There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly ​

bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 1 Corinthians 15:40​

​

grace and peace!​

.​

 

[synergy]

And I saw thrones,
and they sat upon them,
and judgment was given unto them:
and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded
for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God,
and which had not worshipped the beast,
neither his image,
neither had received his mark
upon their foreheads, or in their hands;
and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.'
(Rev 20:4)

Hello @synergy,

Thank you. This was following the first resurrection, coming before the reign of Christ.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Yes, that's before Judgment Day. After Judgment Day, we'll all be resurrected bodily.

 

[synergy]

He did not have His Heavenly Body that could only be given after His death, burial, resurrection, and ASCENSION! ....

​

​

As he was praying, the appearance of his face changed, and his clothes became as bright ​

as a flash of lightning. Two men, Moses and Elijah, appeared in glorious splendor, ​

talking with Jesus. Luke 9:29-30​

Even Moses and Elijah were also shining in glory along his side!

Jesus had to first ascend to Heaven and be glorified to receive His glorious New Body that is everlasting for eternal life!

​

​

There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly ​

bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 1 Corinthians 15:40​

​

grace and peace!​

.​

The new body that Jesus received after His Resurrection was not His new body?

 

[sawdust]

He wasn't tempted to do evil by God. Read your bible it was from the devil. Matt 4:1.

next

You are changing the context again. You were saying God can be tempted and therefore doesn't prove Christ's temptation necessarily makes Him function solely as a human person. You're argument has nothing to do with the tempter. Please stay on track.

 

[sawdust]

And adam was not.

Night and day difference between the human person adam and the Divine Person Jesus.

hope this helps !!!

You never answered my question.
Did the Son of God become as a man?

 

[sawdust]

The new body that Jesus received after His Resurrection was not His new body?

It was still to be transformed into a spiritual body that would occur at the Ascension. Resurrection is two part. First raise the physical body then transform that body. Christ's occurred over the 40 days so He could do what He had to do before He returned to heaven. Our resurrection will occur in the twinkling of an eye.

Luke 24:39
Look at my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me and see, because a ghost does not have flesh and bones as you can see I have.”

 

[Johann]

You never answered my question.
Did the Son of God become as a man?

Absolutely-the 2Aorist and ginomai says it all. Not GIN-o' my!

 

[sawdust]

The only sure thing is what's been revealed by the Bible.

Although Christ had not received His resurrected Body yet and still had not ascended yet, the fullness of God's Divine nature indwelt Christ bodily (Col 2:9) starting from His Incarnation.

Col 2:9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.

In other words, the Divine Nature fully permeates the human nature in Christ. So we're not talking about Jesus functioning just as a man. In no man does the fullness of the Godhead indwell bodily except for Jesus.

Also, Jesus had received Glory and that was revealed to His Disciples at His Transfiguration so the Transfiguration was not a Prophesy.

2 Pe 1:16 For not having followed fables having been cunningly devised, but becoming eyewitnesses of the majesty of Jesus Christ, we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord.
2Pe 1:17 For He received honor and glory from God the Father, when was borne to Him a voice from the excellent glory, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."
2Pe 1:18 And we heard this voice being borne from Heaven, being with Him in the holy mountain.


There is always a strong interaction between the three Persons of the Trinity. There is never a time when they were ever in opposition or wrath against each other.

Perichoresis is a term used to describe the unity of the Trinity. It's not a term found in the Bible but it does help to gain some view into the united interaction between the 3 Persons of the Trinity.

You didn’t comment on the following:

The problem is you recognise He did not act as God in function but then you keep wanting to fall back on His Divine nature as a sort of fire protection plan. It also has nothing to do with the Trinity and the relation between Father, Son and Spirit, but is about Christology and the relationship between the Son's own Deity and humanity. His impeccable Divine nature was not functioning on behalf of His humanity. His humanity entered this world exactly the same as Adam's humanity entered this world. If Adam could sin, and he did, Christ could sin, but He didn't. He loved the Father too much to sin. Jesus' love for the Father was perfect even under the most harrowing torture.

John 14:23
Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word;

We are made not that much different from angels. (in respect to original creation) If two thirds of them did not sin, there is reason to believe some men (if created as Adam was) would not sin either.

We have never experienced what it was like to be born as Adam and Christ were (in their humanity). We come into this world intrinsically flawed (Rom.7) and dead in our sin, cut off from God due to Adam's sin (Rom.5:18). We can't help but sin, so we assume that is what humanity must be like even in it's original version.

We have a saying "to err is human, to forgive Divine". Christ was fully human, functioning purely as a human being should function, yet never erred. So, being human is not the problem.

 

[synergy]

The problem is you recognise He did not act as God in function but then you keep wanting to fall back on His Divine nature as a sort of fire protection plan.

That is me acknowledging the undeniable fact that Jesus is the Uncreated Word of God. If you wish to fall away from that fact then that's on you.

It also has nothing to do with the Trinity and the relation between Father, Son and Spirit,

I mentioned the Trinity to emphasize the fact that there was never a time when the Persons of the Trinity were ever wrathful against each other.

but is about Christology and the relationship between the Son's own Deity and humanity. His impeccable Divine nature was not functioning on behalf of His humanity. His humanity entered this world exactly the same as Adam's humanity entered this world. If Adam could sin, and he did, Christ could sin, but He didn't. He loved the Father too much to sin. Jesus' love for the Father was perfect even under the most harrowing torture.

You continue to run away from the fact that the fullness of God's Divine nature indwelt Christ bodily (Col 2:9) starting from His Incarnation.

Col 2:9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.

In other words, the Divine Nature fully permeates the human nature in Christ. So we're not talking about Jesus functioning just as a man. In no man does the fullness of the Godhead indwell bodily except for Jesus.

John 14:23
Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word;

Wonderful verse but that verse does not negate in any way the fact that in Jesus alone dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. Col 2:9 remains for you to deal with it.

We are made not that much different from angels. (in respect to original creation) If two thirds of them did not sin, there is reason to believe some men (if created as Adam was) would not sin either.

We have never experienced what it was like to be born as Adam and Christ were (in their humanity). We come into this world intrinsically flawed (Rom.7) and dead in our sin, cut off from God due to Adam's sin (Rom.5:18). We can't help but sin, so we assume that is what humanity must be like even in it's original version.

We have a saying "to err is human, to forgive Divine". Christ was fully human, functioning purely as a human being should function, yet never erred. So, being human is not the problem.

Actually, not acknowledging His ontological Divinity is the problem. I do acknowledge his human nature. Only by Jesus being the God Person who embodies both Divine and human natures are we saved. Col 2:9 must be true for us to be saved.

Permit me ask you: Why are you so intent on Nestorianism? Is it because you think that our salvation is at risk if our salvation was not accomplished in a Nestorian way?

 

[civic]

That is me acknowledging the undeniable fact that Jesus is the Uncreated Word of God. If you wish to fall away from that fact then that's on you.

I mentioned the Trinity to emphasize the fact that there was never a time when the Persons of the Trinity were ever wrathful against each other.

You continue to run away from the fact that the fullness of God's Divine nature indwelt Christ bodily (Col 2:9) starting from His Incarnation.

Col 2:9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.

In other words, the Divine Nature fully permeates the human nature in Christ. So we're not talking about Jesus functioning just as a man. In no man does the fullness of the Godhead indwell bodily except for Jesus.

Wonderful verse but that verse does not negate in any way the fact that in Jesus alone dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. Col 2:9 remains for you to deal with it.

Actually, not acknowledging His ontological Divinity is the problem. I do acknowledge his human nature. Only by Jesus being the God Person who embodies both Divine and human natures are we saved. Col 2:9 must be true for us to be saved.

Permit me ask you: Why are you so intent on Nestorianism? Is it because you think that our salvation is at risk if our salvation was not accomplished in a Nestorian way?

Spot on Jesus is a Divine Person and functioned as a Person, not a nature. His Deity was veiled and as God the Son functioned as the Son. The Tri-Unity of God always works in Unison together. What some do not understand is there are functions/roles within the Tri-Unity of God. Submission/Humility is a Divine Characteristic perfectly demonstrated in Christ Condescension/Incarnation.

Is the Holy Spirit not God and functioning as God because He submits to both the Father and the Son ? They would have to argue that is the case since that is their same argument with Jesus for 33 years.

 

[101G]

Spot on Jesus is a Divine Person and functioned as a Person, not a nature.

how do you define FUNCTION. for was not his "OWN" Person God? Hebrews 1:3 "Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;"

and how could the Lord Jesus, as stated above, "uphold all things by the Word of his power" when his .... NATURE .... was in a Philippians 2:7state in flesh and blood, per Philippians 2:7. and please remember he was in the NATURE of God before being G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō'), per Philippians 2:6.

now question, was he not UPHOLDING all thing by the Word of his POWER before he was G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō'), yes or no?

101G.

 

[civic]

how do you define FUNCTION. for was not his "OWN" Person God? Hebrews 1:3 "Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;"

and how could the Lord Jesus, as stated above, "uphold all things by the Word of his power" when his .... NATURE .... was in a Philippians 2:7state in flesh and blood, per Philippians 2:7. and please remember he was in the NATURE of God before being G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō'), per Philippians 2:6.

now question, was he not UPHOLDING all thing by the Word of his POWER before he was G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō'), yes or no?

101G.

He always was, is and will be God- The One who was, is and is to some. Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever. God is Immutable.

next...................

hope this helps !!!

 

[101G]

He always was, is and will be God- The One who was, is and is to some. Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever. God is Immutable.

next...................

hope this helps !!!

Good, 100%. so did God take on human flesh if so, When?

101G.

 

[civic]

Good, 100%. so did God take on human flesh if so, When?

101G.

in Mary's womb. I'm not going to answer a 1000 questions as an FYI.

and please don't conflate His per-exixtence as the angel of the Lord in the O.T. I'm not going down the rabbit holes.

 

[synergy]

Spot on Jesus is a Divine Person and functioned as a Person, not a nature. His Deity was veiled and as God the Son functioned as the Son. The Tri-Unity of God always works in Unison together. What some do not understand is there are functions/roles within the Tri-Unity of God. Submission/Humility is a Divine Characteristic perfectly demonstrated in Christ Condescension/Incarnation.

Is the Holy Spirit not God and functioning as God because He submits to both the Father and the Son ? They would have to argue that is the case since that is their same argument with Jesus for 33 years.

Yes. The Father is the "Arche" of the Trinity. Christ is the Eternal Divine Son of God and the Holy Spirit eternally proceedes from the Father. As such the Father is the Mon-Arche, the First Spiritual Cause of the Trinity. We get the English word "Monarch" from the Greek but its usage in the English language fails to transfer forward the Spiritual meaning. Christ and the Holy Spirit are co-equal with the Father as they are all God, possessing the same God Nature but the Father is the Mon-Arche (Monarch in the spiritual sense of that word).

Unitarians and Muslims wrongly interpret the verses that emphasize the Mon-Arche of the Father and fall head first into Arianism. Here's a good back and forth discussion on that:

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