The Hypostatic Union- the 2 Natures in Christ

You're evading the question I asked you by asking me a question instead.

Even if I cannot answer that does not make your question simply go away, it's a cheap debate trick.

But yes, there are a lot of Scriptural references to death as spiritual actually.

It is called the Second Death in Scripture, because it is the real and actual death of which the physical represents.

Anyway, I've come to see you as a dishonest interlocutor, so I will wait for someone with real interest and integrity to respond.
Do you have scripture that says

“ spiritual death “ ???????

End of discussion

you are much more calvinist in your thinking then you lead us to believe. this is just another example where you line up as a calvinist.

spiritual death is synonymous with total depravity and original sin, guilt

READERS BEWARE- the second death happens in the future after the final resurrection at the GWT Judgment.

There is no 2nd death until then.

end of discussion once again

hope this helps !!!
 
Hypostatic Union


1
. Jesus is a person. (1 Tim 2:5)

2. Jesus, the Person, has two natures- Divine and human (John 1:1, 14, 1 Timothy 3:16): Divine and human. This is the Hypostatic Union.( Col 2:9, Heb 1:3,2:16)

3. The Communicatio Idiomatum (Communication of the Properties) states that the attributes of His Divine nature and human nature are both ascribed to the one Person of Jesus, the Divine Son who is the 2nd Person of the Trinity. So Jesus can exhibit attributes of Divinity (Omnipresence, Omniscience, Omnipotence, . John 2:23, 3:13, 8:58, He was prayed to in Acts 7:59, John 14:13, He was is worshiped Matt 2:2:11, Rev 5:13-14) and at the same time exhibit attributes of His humanity( He was tempted, ate, prayed,wept, grew in wisdom and stature,was anointed,was baptized, the Father was greater, didn’t know the day or the hour of His Return, He cried My God my God why has Thou forsaken Me, He died etc.). The communicatio idiomatum does not mean that any part of the Divine nature was communicated to the human nature. The Creed of Chalcedon declares that : “in two natures, without confusion, without change, without division, without separation, the distinction of natures being by no means taken away by the union, but rather the property of each nature being preserved, and concurring in one persona and one subsistence, not parted or divided into two person, but one and the same Son, and only begotten, God the Word, the Lord Jesus Christ.

4. The Man(anthropos) Jesus is what we perceive (if we were there 2000 years ago in Israel) and through the Man we encounter the Divine nature (Jesus knowing all things, is on earth while in heaven, answers prayer, forgiving sins, etc.).

5. The Person of Jesus will always be both Divine and human. (John 1:1,14,20:28, 1 John 5:20, 1 Timothy 2:5) Those who deny this fact are the spirit of antichrist. (1 John 4:1-4,2 John 7)

6. The Divine Nature is within the Trinity.(Father, Son and Holy Spirit)

7. Since the Person of Jesus claims the attributes of Divinity(John 3:13,8:58,Matthew 9:2,12:8), then the Person of Jesus is a member of the Trinity.( John 14-16, Math 28:19)

Anything said of either of Christ's two natures applies to the one Person of Christ, so that is how it is said that Christ died on the cross. The term "hypostatic union" refers to the two natures united in the one Person, so anything said of those two natures in the one Person applies to the whole Person. So we see that the Person of Christ is both God and man. The phrase hypostatic union was adopted by the general council at Chalcedon 451 AD. That council declared that the union of two natures is real (against Arius), not a mere indwelling of God in a man (against Nestorius), with a rational soul (against Apollinaris), and that in Christ’s Divine nature remains unchanged (against Eutyches).

We need to look to the Monothelite Controversy which had to deal with whether there was one or two wills/minds in the person of Christ. The outcome was that there were two; one human and one divine with the human subjected to the divine. The eternal Son of God did not assume a part of a human nature without a mind, without a will, without human activity, but He assumed all the things that were planted in our nature by God.

Now then, to act (or in this case, speak) is the work of a person, but the form or nature is the cause of this action; for each person acts in accord with the form or nature which it has. A difference in causes (natures) produces a difference in effects (actions). Therefore, where there are different natures, there are also different activities. So in the one Person of Christ there are two natural actions, the divine and the human, each of which has its own essential attributes, functions, and actions. Jesus was thirty years old according to His human nature (Luke 3:23); according to His divine nature He could say: "Before Abraham was born, I am" (John 8:58). The question is did both natures know this and communicate it to the Person. The answer is yes because the divine nature with its corresponding divine will willed the human nature to respond in such a fashion in keeping with Christ's office and ministry. In the text regarding Mark 13:32, we have a slightly different situation here. Christ is acting (speaking) from His human nature, but, this time, the divine will does not allow the human will access to this knowledge. For this information is not to be published on earth. Therefore, as man, Christ cannot answer the question. In the works pertaining to the office of Christ as Prophet, Priest, and King both natures act in conjunction with each other, each nature doing what is peculiar to the same. The book of Hebrews goes into great detail with these offices.

hope this helps !!!
All you have done, just like anyone can do about any other heresy, is provide a list of reasons to attach to your beliefs without having provided a Scriptural premise for the hypostatic union in the first place. No one in the Bible ever stated, explained, or described what your conclusions are.

Means you have provided your interpretation of what the Bible says, which is the same thing that Mormons and Scientologists do, rather than quote any statements about Jesus being a hypostatic union in the first place. You guys are fractured into tens of thousands of denominations and have tons of doctrines about what you believe, but no actual Scripture that states what your beliefs are.

Quoting verses and saying it means a hypostatic union isn't how Scripture works. It's also worth noting that most of your points apply to regular people. Watch this.

1. Jesus is a single person (1 Timothy 2:5) yet all humans are a single person with a physical body and immaterial spirit (1 Thess. 5:23, Heb. 4:12, Gen. 2:7)​
2. Jesus has two natures, both divine and human (John 1:1, 14, Col. 2:9, Heb. 2:16) and you claim that means Jesus is both God and man. However, all humans have a human nature and can also have a divine nature (Gen, 1:26-27, 2 Peter 1:4, Psalm 82:6, John 10:34-35) Therefore, if one were to follow your line of reasoning, you have just provided an argument that humans are God because of their dual nature.​
3. "The Communicatio Idiomatum (Communication of the Properties) states that the attributes of His Divine nature and human nature are both ascribed to the one Person of Jesus" which essentially means that Jesus exhibits divine traits (omnipresence, omniscience, worship) and human traits (hunger, growth, death). However, the very same things can be said of regular people. Jesus taught his disciples that the Holy Spirit would teach them "all things" in John 14:26 which would be omniscience. Moses performed miracles (Ex. 7-12, Numbers 12:3) yet was a human. Elijah called down fire from heaven yet was a man (1 Kings 18:38, James 5:17). Paul also had divine revelations yet had human weaknessnes like Jesus (2 Cor. 12:2-4, 2 Cor. 12:7) and believers can forgive sins (John 20:23, Matthew 9:4-8) judge (1 Cor. 6:3) and do greater works than Jesus (John 14:12)​
4. You said the man Jesus reveals the divine nature. What an odd thing to say since Adam was in the image of God (Gen. 1:27) and Moses' face shined with divine glory (Ex. 34:29-35) and belivers are called to reflect God's glory (2 Cor. 3:18, Matthew 5:14-16)​
5. You said Jesus is forever both divine and human (1 Tim. 2:5, Hebrews 7:24) however the same thing applies to the resurrected saints because they are given glorified bodies (1 Cor. 15:42-44) and live forever (Luke 20:36) and will be divine like God (1John 3:2)​
6. You are essentially claiming that Jesus' divine nature is relational to what you called the "Father, Son, Spirit" but humans are also called into that very same oneness with God (John 17:21-23, 1 Cor. 6:17) and the Spirit dwells in believers, too, making them one spirit with God, just like Jesus (1 Cor. 3:16, 6:19)​
7. Your final claim was the Jesus had two wills (human subject to divine) but that is not any different than a regular believers (Romans 7:15-23, Matthew 26:39, James 4:7)​

So I hope what you realized is that anyone can do what you're doing. Just like how you found verses that you claim make Jesus God, I also found explicit pararells that state the same exact thing about believers, yet they are not God. So you really have not provided any sort of convincing argument here. However, I hope you realize what this all truly means. It means Jesus is our example of what we can attain.
 
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All you have done, just like anyone can do about any other heresy, is provide a list of reasons to attach to your beliefs without having provided a Scriptural premise for the hypostatic union in the first place. No one in the Bible ever stated, explained, or described what your conclusions are.

Means you have provided your interpretation of what the Bible says, which is the same thing that Mormons and Scientologists do, rather than quote any statements about Jesus being a hypostatic union in the first place. You guys are fractured into tens of thousands of denominations and have tons of doctrines about what you believe, but no actual Scripture that states what your beliefs are.

Quoting verses and saying it means a hypostatic union isn't how Scripture works. It's also worth noting that most of your points apply to regular people. Watch this.

1. Jesus is a single person (1 Timothy 2:5) yet all humans are a single person with a physical body and immaterial spirit (1 Thess. 5:23, Heb. 4:12, Gen. 2:7)​
2. Jesus has two natures, both divine and human (John 1:1, 14, Col. 2:9, Heb. 2:16) and you claim that means Jesus is both God and man. However, all humans have a human nature and can also have a divine nature (Gen, 1:26-27, 2 Peter 1:4, Psalm 82:6, John 10:34-35) Therefore, if one were to follow your line of reasoning, you have just provided an argument that humans are God because of their dual nature.​
3. "The Communicatio Idiomatum (Communication of the Properties) states that the attributes of His Divine nature and human nature are both ascribed to the one Person of Jesus" which essentially means that Jesus exhibits divine traits (omnipresence, omniscience, worship) and human traits (hunger, growth, death). However, the very same things can be said of regular people. Jesus taught his disciples that the Holy Spirit would teach them "all things" in John 14:26 which would be omniscience. Moses performed miracles (Ex. 7-12, Numbers 12:3) yet was a human. Elijah called down fire from heaven yet was a man (1 Kings 18:38, James 5:17). Paul also had divine revelations yet had human weaknessnes like Jesus (2 Cor. 12:2-4, 2 Cor. 12:7) and believers can forgive sins (John 20:23, Matthew 9:4-8) judge (1 Cor. 6:3) and do greater works than Jesus (John 14:12)​
4. You said the man Jesus reveals the divine nature. What an odd thing to say since Adam was in the image of God (Gen. 1:27) and Moses' face shined with divine glory (Ex. 34:29-35) and belivers are called to reflect God's glory (2 Cor. 3:18, Matthew 5:14-16)​
5. You said Jesus is forever both divine and human (1 Tim. 2:5, Hebrews 7:24) however the same thing applies to the resurrected saints because they are given glorified bodies (1 Cor. 15:42-44) and live forever (Luke 20:36) and will be divine like God (1John 3:2)​
6. You are essentially claiming that Jesus' divine nature is relational to what you called the "Father, Son, Spirit" but humans are also called into that very same oneness with God (John 17:21-23, 1 Cor. 6:17) and the Spirit dwells in believers, too, making them one spirit with God, just like Jesus (1 Cor. 3:16, 6:19)​
7. Your final claim was the Jesus had two wills (human subject to divine) but that is not any different than a regular believers (Romans 7:15-23, Matthew 26:39, James 4:7)​

So I hope what you realized is that anyone can do what you're doing. Just like how you found verses that you claim make Jesus God, I also found explicit pararells that state the same exact thing about believers, yet they are not God. So you really have not provided any sort of convincing argument here. However, I hope you realize what this all truly means. It means Jesus is our example of what we can attain.
Ye will be gods are you a Mormon ?

You can attain Deity.

Yikes
 
Umm, I would like to offer another thought or two on this.

Two things....

First~ I Peter 3: 18-20 talks of Jrsus' decent.

18 having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;

(not gonna quote from your esaus corrupt version, only that much)

the evil realm esaus put Him to death in the
flesh body of their type ugly nature

of this earth.

God did not do such a ugly evil thing.

also esau lies here. no need christ be made 'alive'

pathetic corrupt text.
 
Ye will be gods are you a Mormon ?

You can attain Deity.

Yikes
understand Nature.

everything growing on this earth is IN fallen nature, not God's

everything in eden after He restores us to His type nature has His signature

deity is a nature not a synonym for God.
This is why the sons can rule with Christ


i know the lds though believe in the nature here in the fallen satanic physicality is somehow made by God (gross and wrong!) so their view of (satanic) nature is not related to what i write above.
 
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nature in eden is of the type of attributes and mind and physicality that has its Being Given by God. perfect , no death , love.

this realm we are in lacks His signature. everything dies. it's the Death realm adam chose.

only His souls to be saved out of here are OF Him. not the flesh body...
 
All you have done, just like anyone can do about any other heresy, is provide a list of reasons to attach to your beliefs without having provided a Scriptural premise for the hypostatic union in the first place. No one in the Bible ever stated, explained, or described what your conclusions are.

Means you have provided your interpretation of what the Bible says, which is the same thing that Mormons and Scientologists do, rather than quote any statements about Jesus being a hypostatic union in the first place. You guys are fractured into tens of thousands of denominations and have tons of doctrines about what you believe, but no actual Scripture that states what your beliefs are.

Quoting verses and saying it means a hypostatic union isn't how Scripture works. It's also worth noting that most of your points apply to regular people. Watch this.

1. Jesus is a single person (1 Timothy 2:5) yet all humans are a single person with a physical body and immaterial spirit (1 Thess. 5:23, Heb. 4:12, Gen. 2:7)​
2. Jesus has two natures, both divine and human (John 1:1, 14, Col. 2:9, Heb. 2:16) and you claim that means Jesus is both God and man. However, all humans have a human nature and can also have a divine nature (Gen, 1:26-27, 2 Peter 1:4, Psalm 82:6, John 10:34-35) Therefore, if one were to follow your line of reasoning, you have just provided an argument that humans are God because of their dual nature.​
3. "The Communicatio Idiomatum (Communication of the Properties) states that the attributes of His Divine nature and human nature are both ascribed to the one Person of Jesus" which essentially means that Jesus exhibits divine traits (omnipresence, omniscience, worship) and human traits (hunger, growth, death). However, the very same things can be said of regular people. Jesus taught his disciples that the Holy Spirit would teach them "all things" in John 14:26 which would be omniscience. Moses performed miracles (Ex. 7-12, Numbers 12:3) yet was a human. Elijah called down fire from heaven yet was a man (1 Kings 18:38, James 5:17). Paul also had divine revelations yet had human weaknessnes like Jesus (2 Cor. 12:2-4, 2 Cor. 12:7) and believers can forgive sins (John 20:23, Matthew 9:4-8) judge (1 Cor. 6:3) and do greater works than Jesus (John 14:12)​
4. You said the man Jesus reveals the divine nature. What an odd thing to say since Adam was in the image of God (Gen. 1:27) and Moses' face shined with divine glory (Ex. 34:29-35) and belivers are called to reflect God's glory (2 Cor. 3:18, Matthew 5:14-16)​
5. You said Jesus is forever both divine and human (1 Tim. 2:5, Hebrews 7:24) however the same thing applies to the resurrected saints because they are given glorified bodies (1 Cor. 15:42-44) and live forever (Luke 20:36) and will be divine like God (1John 3:2)​
6. You are essentially claiming that Jesus' divine nature is relational to what you called the "Father, Son, Spirit" but humans are also called into that very same oneness with God (John 17:21-23, 1 Cor. 6:17) and the Spirit dwells in believers, too, making them one spirit with God, just like Jesus (1 Cor. 3:16, 6:19)​
7. Your final claim was the Jesus had two wills (human subject to divine) but that is not any different than a regular believers (Romans 7:15-23, Matthew 26:39, James 4:7)​

So I hope what you realized is that anyone can do what you're doing. Just like how you found verses that you claim make Jesus God, I also found explicit pararells that state the same exact thing about believers, yet they are not God. So you really have not provided any sort of convincing argument here. However, I hope you realize what this all truly means. It means Jesus is our example of what we can attain.
it's like this. God's Spirit is a feminine being. The greek type of oneness fails to get this... Gets bent out of shape just thinking of it. Augustine Hated female. Formed his theology to fit his own pagan greek training. Oversaw and was in charge of catholic theology. No this has nothing to do with any silly mary worship concept.

But in Irenaeus' sweet view of trinity God's Spirit and Christ are His Hands. Then we have two gorgeous Hands of God representing all the daughters by His Spirit and all the sons by Christ in their image, male and female. Yes they are in Him and are deity. He is God and they are His Hands.

Then instead of the current all male club based on aristotelian substance - augustine's version (and he was sign-off on vatican theology that the protestant branch of the catholic tree continues with today!) - we can see God's family as of His archetype and not a weird person pretzel based on kabalah and greek theology - both of which are rooted in ancient egypt and God's enemy.

Thus He is a being, His Spirit is a Being, His son is a being. They are one. How can hands be separated from His Being. They cannot.

What was stolen at the fall was our original nature given by God... thus our deity, His nature as actual sons and daughters in eden where His signature was on everything of His and therefore yes we as His temple then before the fall . Not creatures, not adopted ape humans. His family of whom the satanic realm was so jealous and all of us imprisoned. Certainly now in this 98% ape body we are not a temple - this is the flesh we are imprisoned in that wars God.

The rapture is restoration to Him and Eden, all imbued with His nature.

The 144k will be restored to their glorious original nature. Which christ made possible to happen. Plead Christ it be now and He return to save us from this place of which He said I am not from here.
 
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