The Hypostatic Union- the 2 Natures in Christ

[praise_yeshua]

If it was impossible for Christ to not do the Father's will, why did He have to say "nevertheless not my will but yours be done"?

You're not really dealing with the ramifications of what you're stating.

That Christ chose to only ever do the Father's will is the difference between the First and the Second Adam. He was not compelled to doing the Father's will because of being God, He chose to do the Father's will because he loved Him as a man with all His heart and soul and strength and mind.

You're presenting a scenario wherein Jesus Christ, the Incarnate Son of God's will was different than the Father's. That is SIN. No controversy whatsoever. A divergent will is SIN.... You're creating a innate quality of resistance within the humanity of Jesus Christ. That is sin.

Jesus Christ said those words in the presence of those who HEARD HIM. It was a statement of Unity of wills. An open expression of the reality of His relationship to the Father.

This was something that He was establishing FOR MAN... Not something MAN ALREADY HAD...

 

[praise_yeshua]

Wow! I wonder if you realise how utterly condescending that sounds.

I'm saved but I'm of a low standard?

It's ok. I know that is not what you were trying to say.

And I knew exactly who I was seeing because the Spirit kept repeating the same scripture over and over.

Good...

We all must mature. I've meet 70 year old babies in Christ that stayed that way for more than 50 years.

 

[GeneZ]

I honestly do not understand why you go to some of the places you do with your responses.

No-one has said Jesus failed. We have repeatedly said He is without sin. What do you think @Johann is holding onto that says Christ failed?

edited for discussing another poster. Rule 2c. Do not discuss other posters.

Forums on the internet offer anonymity. If you were to share the same space? And be able to see the person and note how they act?
You would be able to quickly discern what your best option would be in how to deal with it.

That is one thing I find on occasion frustrating with this format when things are wrong, and you keep giving the benefit of a doubt.
When otherwise, you would have distanced yourself as the correct thing to do.

 

[GeneZ]

You're presenting a scenario wherein Jesus Christ, the Incarnate Son of God's will was different than the Father's. That is SIN. No controversy whatsoever. A divergent will is SIN.... You're creating a innate quality of resistance within the humanity of Jesus Christ. That is sin.

We have no idea how, or if, your concepts distort Scriptural reality.

So there is nothing to prove to you unless you get specific, and point to exactly what it was that triggered your reaction.

 

[GeneZ]

Good...

We all must mature. I've meet 70 year old babies in Christ that stayed that way for more than 50 years.

And. Don't forget... some just remain as somewhat older kids.....

 

[synergy]

If it was impossible for Christ to not do the Father's will, why did He have to say "nevertheless not my will but yours be done"? That Christ chose to only ever do the Father's will is the difference between the First and the Second Adam. He was not compelled to doing the Father's will because of being God, He chose to do the Father's will because he loved Him as a man with all His heart and soul and strength and mind.

We've already addressed the fact that Jesus has two wills because he has two natures. Each nature has a will. And it's true that Christ consistently aligns his human will with his and His Father's Divine will.

But there is an important thing that you seem to be missing about his human will. Because there is no Nestorian separation between natures in Christ, then it's a given that Christ possesses a transfigured human will, similar to his transfigured human nature that the 3 Disciples witnessed on Mount Tabor.

 

[sawdust]

You're presenting a scenario wherein Jesus Christ, the Incarnate Son of God's will was different than the Father's.

It showed the potential for being different, not that it was different.

 

[synergy]

It showed the potential for being different, not that it was different.

False. There is no "potential for being different" whatsoever. Im sorry to say that is pure Nestorian heresy.

That's because there is no Nestorian separation between natures in Christ. Therefore, it's a given that Christ possesses a transfigured human will, similar to his transfigured human nature that the 3 Disciples witnessed on Mount Tabor.

 

[synergy]

It showed the potential for being different, not that it was different.

False. There is no "potential for being different" whatsoever. I'm sorry to say that is pure Nestorian heresy.

That's because there is no Nestorian separation between natures in Christ. Therefore, it's a given that Christ possesses a transfigured human will, similar to his transfigured human nature that the 3 Disciples witnessed on Mount Tabor.

 

[sawdust]

We've already addressed the fact that Jesus has two wills because he has two natures. Each nature has a will. And it's true that Christ consistently aligns his human will with his and His Father's Divine will.

But there is an important thing that you seem to be missing about his human will. Because there is no Nestorian separation between natures in Christ, then it's a given that Christ possesses a transfigured human will, similar to his transfigured human nature that the 3 Disciples witnessed on Mount Tabor.

But He wasn't functioning in His Glorified state so it is merely an assumption on your part it was impossible.

 

[synergy]

But He wasn't functioning in His Glorified state so it is merely an assumption on your part it was impossible.

What is your view of the Transfiguration? What exactly transpired there?

 

[GeneZ]

But He wasn't functioning in His Glorified state so it is merely an assumption on your part it was impossible.

This might help him to see what you said better... "Jesus was not glorified yet."

Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.​

” By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that ​

time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified." John 7:38-39​

Jesus was glorified just prior to the Day of Pentecost as seen the Spirit being given in second chapter of Acts.

 

[GeneZ]

It showed the potential for being different, not that it was different.

The humanity had a will of his own.

Yet, Deity within the Trinity always being God, has no such thing...

For as God, Deity was always knowing what all three were always knowing.
For that reason the wills were always in one accord. One will.

The Humanity of Christ? He was and will always be obedient to do God's will.
That factor was proven by him going to the Cross!

 

[synergy]

This might help him to see what you said better... "Jesus was not glorified yet."

Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.​

” By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that ​

time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified." John 7:38-39​

Jesus was glorified just prior to the Day of Pentecost as seen the Spirit being given in second chapter of Acts.

First, we're talking about the anti-Nestorian non-separation of natures in Christ here, not about believers. Can you stay on the topic?

Second, my question to @sawdust was about the Transfiguration. I'm not surprised that you avoided it.

 

[synergy]

The humanity had a will of his own. Yet, Deity within the Trinity always being God, has no such thing...

For as God Deity was always knowing what all three were always knowing.
The Humanity of Christ was and will always be obedient to God's will.
That factor was proven by him going to the Cross!

Christ's human nature/will is transfigured so there is no possibly on Christ's part to misalign his human will with his and his Father's Divine will.

 

[sawdust]

What is your view of the Transfiguration? What exactly transpired there?

Christ was revealed in His glorified state, the one He would assume upon His ascension. He was our High Priest before He was glorified. If He had zero capacity to sin, then he had zero capacity to be tempted. Just because Christ had the capacity to sin, doesn't mean he had the desire to sin.

He functioned fully as a man, not a sinful man which is what we are, but as a real man, as God intended man to be. You keep trying to make him to be something that the Lord Jesus Christ Himself denied Himself to be while on Earth.

 

[civic]

Christ was revealed in His glorified state, the one He would assume upon His ascension. He was our High Priest before He was glorified. If He had zero capacity to sin, then he had zero capacity to be tempted. Just because Christ had the capacity to sin, doesn't mean he had the desire to sin.

He functioned fully as a man, not a sinful man which is what we are, but as a real man, as God intended man to be. You keep trying to make him to be something that the Lord Jesus Christ Himself denied Himself to be while on Earth.

God was tempted in the wilderness by the Jews. Strawman alert

 

[sawdust]

The humanity had a will of his own.

Yet, Deity within the Trinity always being God, has no such thing...

For as God, Deity was always knowing what all three were always knowing.
For that reason the wills were always in one accord. One will.

The Humanity of Christ? He was and will always be obedient to do God's will.
That factor was proven by him going to the Cross!

I think the problem is as soon as you say Jesus is fully man they automatically assume "a man like us". But we are born sinners, cut off from God and have no hope but to sin. This is not how Christ came into the world. First Adam (pre-fall) and Second Adam were alike in their humanity. Jesus had no more advantage than Adam because he had already decided before he came to not take advantage of His Divine qualities in order to do what he had to do here.

 

[civic]

I think the problem is as soon as you say Jesus is fully man they automatically assume "a man like us". But we are born sinners, cut off from God and have no hope but to sin. This is not how Christ came into the world. First Adam (pre-fall) and Second Adam were alike in their humanity. Jesus had no more advantage than Adam because he had already decided before he came to not take advantage of His Divine qualities in order to do what he had to do here.

Adam was not God end of discussion

 

[GeneZ]

Adam was not God end of discussion

You always miss the point.

Make what you think was the point into the deciding factor.

And, leave the other wondering what it was you erroneously thought he said.....