The Hypostatic Union- the 2 Natures in Christ

Posts 267 to 274 are all replies clearly showing you how heretical are your Nestorian beliefs. You have not offered even one valid counterargument to any of our replies, just something about "the Fifth Haifa Council of Rabbis", whatever that is. :rolleyes:

He is mocking the Council of Chalcedon. At least that is what I think he is trying to do.
 
Its not really harshness... Its demanding an answer when he claims to have an answer that he will never produce..

Continuously he refused to be truthful, and only offered sidestepping an issue. One that he claims to know better than you do,
but can not explain why. Its like someone who keeps stepping in front of you as you wish to walk down a sidewalk.


"Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices
and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the
image of its Creator." Colossians 3:9-10​


He keeps denying the knowledge he needs to use to make his broad brushed claims to be true.

He might as well be telling me.... "My pastor says you are wrong." (and, leave it at that)
I hear you.
 
Do you believe Christ is a human person?
Philippians 2:6-8 says He made Himself *become* as a man..

Not just in appearance... But in function and within the limits of being a man.
A man who was the PERFECT man of God of whom God held back no grace.


Philippians 2:6-8

Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!


Its the ignorance you keep walking in that continues to be a stumbling stone for you and the others here who have been indoctrinated into the same school of thought.

grace and pace .........
 
Philippians 2:6-8 says He made Himself *become* as a man..

Not just in appearance... But in function and within the limits of being a man.
A man who was the PERFECT man of God of whom God held back no grace.


Philippians 2:6-8

Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!


Its the ignorance you keep walking in that continues to be a stumbling stone for you and the others here who have been indoctrinated into the same school of thought.

grace and pace .........
Php 2:6 Who, though existing in the demut of the mode of being of Elohim [His etzem or essential nature, Yn 1:1-2; 17:5], nevertheless Moshiach did not regard being equal with G-d as a thing to be seized [BERESHIS 3:5],
Php 2:7 But poured out and emptied himself [2C 8:9], taking the demut of the mode of being of an eved [YESHAYAH 52:13- 53:12 [T.N. see the AVDI TZADDIK TZEMACH DOVID MOSHIACH YIRMEYAH 23:5; ZECHARIAH 3:8], and was born in the likeness of Bnei Adam [Yn 1:14; Ro 8:3; MJ 2:14-17], and having been found in appearance as an Adam,
Php 2:8 Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach humbled himself and took the path of shiflut (lowliness), unto mishma'at (obedience 2:12) [cf. BERESHIS 3:17] even unto death [Yn 10:17; MJ 5:8; 12:2], and that, a death on HaEtz [the Tree, DEVARIM 21:23; 27:26; Ga 3:13; Pp 3:18].
 
Truculent?

That is what you seek by what you do.....

To encourage it is a ploy of those who need to divert when they have no real sound answers.

“Crazy like a fox ,” suggests that someone seems dumb or foolish, but is actually crafty and shrewd like a fox.
The phrase originates from a book penned by humorist S.J. Perelman in 1944.


grace and peace! .......
 
Philippians 2:6-8 says He made Himself *become* as a man..

Not just in appearance... But in function and within the limits of being a man.
A man who was the PERFECT man of God of whom God held back no grace.


Philippians 2:6-8

Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!


Its the ignorance you keep walking in that continues to be a stumbling stone for you and the others here who have been indoctrinated into the same school of thought.

grace and pace .........

@GeneZ @Johann

So you're answering for @Johann while not complain about the lack of an answer from @Johann?

Double minded much?

I've dealt with this multiple times with you. Don't pretend I haven't.

Php 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

If you want to start a list of how Jesus Christ wasn't limited by the Incarnation, we can. I've referenced it multiple ways. As I told your friend......

There has never been anyone like Jesus Christ. Never. Not even close. YOU however, insist that Jesus Christ was just like you. IDENTICAL TO YOU.

That is not true. Let me start listing some more ways Jesus Christ has never been like you.

1. You are a willing sinner.
2. You enjoy sin. You really enjoy sin.
3. You are total and complete depraved.
4. You not only love sin, you insist upon sinning. It is your pleasure and joy.
5. You've never had the power to raise anyone from the dead.
6. You've never been "transfigured" before your disciples to the point they "trembled".
7. You've never been a Master of any man. You're not my Master. I have never followed you. Never would. Give me Jesus. He is so much better than you.

You can keep trying to "drag Jesus Christ" down to rotten level, but you'll never be able to do it.

How is that for the truculent truth?
 
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Php 2:6 Who, though existing in the demut of the mode of being of Elohim [His etzem or essential nature, Yn 1:1-2; 17:5], nevertheless Moshiach did not regard being equal with G-d as a thing to be seized [BERESHIS 3:5],
Php 2:7 But poured out and emptied himself [2C 8:9], taking the demut of the mode of being of an eved [YESHAYAH 52:13- 53:12 [T.N. see the AVDI TZADDIK TZEMACH DOVID MOSHIACH YIRMEYAH 23:5; ZECHARIAH 3:8], and was born in the likeness of Bnei Adam [Yn 1:14; Ro 8:3; MJ 2:14-17], and having been found in appearance as an Adam,
Php 2:8 Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach humbled himself and took the path of shiflut (lowliness), unto mishma'at (obedience 2:12) [cf. BERESHIS 3:17] even unto death [Yn 10:17; MJ 5:8; 12:2], and that, a death on HaEtz [the Tree, DEVARIM 21:23; 27:26; Ga 3:13; Pp 3:18].

Does @GeneZ speak for you?

Dirt isn't in the image of God. Do you believe when God formed Adam out of the DUST of the earth that DUST was an immaculate image of God?
 
Php 2:6 Who, though existing in the demut of the mode of being of Elohim [His etzem or essential nature, Yn 1:1-2; 17:5], nevertheless Moshiach did not regard being equal with G-d as a thing to be seized [BERESHIS 3:5],
Php 2:7 But poured out and emptied himself [2C 8:9], taking the demut of the mode of being of an eved [YESHAYAH 52:13- 53:12 [T.N. see the AVDI TZADDIK TZEMACH DOVID MOSHIACH YIRMEYAH 23:5; ZECHARIAH 3:8], and was born in the likeness of Bnei Adam [Yn 1:14; Ro 8:3; MJ 2:14-17], and having been found in appearance as an Adam,
Php 2:8 Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach humbled himself and took the path of shiflut (lowliness), unto mishma'at (obedience 2:12) [cf. BERESHIS 3:17] even unto death [Yn 10:17; MJ 5:8; 12:2], and that, a death on HaEtz [the Tree, DEVARIM 21:23; 27:26; Ga 3:13; Pp 3:18].
Phil 2:6-8 perfectly aligns with what we have been saying all along. Jesus is by nature God and his self-emptying is only functional and not ontological. The Personhood of Jesus has always been purely Divine/God and will always be purely Divine/God.
 
@GeneZ @Johann

So you're answering for @Johann while not complain about the lack of an answer from @Johann?

Double minded much?

I've dealt with this multiple times with you. Don't pretend I haven't.

Php 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

If you want to start a list of how Jesus Christ wasn't limited by the Incarnation, we can. I've referenced it multiple ways. As I told your friend......

There has never been anyone like Jesus Christ. Never. Not even close. YOU however, insist that Jesus Christ was just like you. IDENTICAL TO YOU.

That is not true. Let me start listing some more ways Jesus Christ has never been like you.

1. You a willing sinner.
2. You enjoy sin. You really enjoy sin.
3. You are total and complete depraved.
4. You not only love sin, you insist upon sinning. It is your pleasure and joy.
5. You've never had the power to raise anyone from the dead.
6. You've never been "transfigured" before your disciples to the point they "trembled".
7. You've never been a Master of any man. You're not my Master. I have never followed you. Never would. Give me Jesus. He is so much better than you.

You can keep trying to "drag Jesus Christ" down to rotten level, but you'll never be able to do it.

How is that for the truculent truth?
You think I can't answer for myself?
I have already answered but it is you who don't read.

1Ti 2:5 For Adonoi echad hu (there is one G-d) and there is also metavekh echad (one melitz, IYOV 33:23, YESHAYAH 43:27; cf. DEVARIM 5:5,22-31), one between Hashem and kol Bnei Adam, the man Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach Yehoshua,--

The man Christ Jesus.—St. Paul with special emphasis speaks of the “one Mediator between God and man” as “the man Christ Jesus,” no doubt wishing to bring into prominence the true humanity of the Lord.

It is also a silent refutation of the docetic errors of some of the false teachers, of whose doctrines Timothy was to beware. These would have persuaded men that the Christ Jesus who was nailed to the cross was no man, but simply a phantom.

"the man Christ Jesus" The emphasis of this verse is that Jesus is fully human and is still the only mediator between God and mankind (cf. John 14:6). The Gnostic false teachers would have denied Jesus' humanity (cf. John 1:14; 1 John 1:1-3).

Kinda what you are doing.
 
Php 2:6 Who, though existing in the demut of the mode of being of Elohim [His etzem or essential nature, Yn 1:1-2; 17:5], nevertheless Moshiach did not regard being equal with G-d as a thing to be seized [BERESHIS 3:5],
Php 2:7 But poured out and emptied himself [2C 8:9], taking the demut of the mode of being of an eved [YESHAYAH 52:13- 53:12 [T.N. see the AVDI TZADDIK TZEMACH DOVID MOSHIACH YIRMEYAH 23:5; ZECHARIAH 3:8], and was born in the likeness of Bnei Adam [Yn 1:14; Ro 8:3; MJ 2:14-17], and having been found in appearance as an Adam,
Php 2:8 Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach humbled himself and took the path of shiflut (lowliness), unto mishma'at (obedience 2:12) [cf. BERESHIS 3:17] even unto death [Yn 10:17; MJ 5:8; 12:2], and that, a death on HaEtz [the Tree, DEVARIM 21:23; 27:26; Ga 3:13; Pp 3:18].


Philippians 2:6? The Greek is very telling.... that Jesus is God.

Who (Christ), though He eternally existed in the essence of God, He did not think
equalities {plural} with God a gain to be seized (means to violently take) and held.


See that? To eternally exist = God!

Using English translations that fly just above the surface never can show us what was intended for the readers who knew the original languages.
Its what they were privy to in their native tongue.

Yet, God has made it available for those who know there must be more to know before one can become satisfied with having a firm understanding.

Commentaries and dictionaries alone can not convey this needed factor in the spiritual equation.

God has provided a few men who are able to teach from the original languages.... The majority of teachers will be not so equipped.
Humble pastors who find themselves not so equipped will study from the pastors who can for their personal study.
 
Philippians 2:6? The Greek is very telling.... that Jesus is God.

Who (Christ), though He eternally existed in the essence of God, He did not think
equalities {plural} with God a gain to be seized (means to violently take) and held.


See that? To eternally exist = God!

Using English translations that fly just above the surface never can show us what was intended for the readers who knew the original languages.
Its what they were privy to in their native tongue.

Yet, God has made it available for those who know there must be more to know before one can become satisfied with having a firm understanding.

Commentaries and dictionaries alone can not convey this needed factor in the spiritual equation.

God has provided a few men who are able to teach from the original languages.... The majority of teachers will be not so equipped.
Humble pastors who find themselves not so equipped will study from the pastors who can for their personal study.
That is why I asked you which commentaries you would recommend brother-not Western "commentaries"
 
You think I can't answer for myself?
I have already answered but it is you who don't read.

1Ti 2:5 For Adonoi echad hu (there is one G-d) and there is also metavekh echad (one melitz, IYOV 33:23, YESHAYAH 43:27; cf. DEVARIM 5:5,22-31), one between Hashem and kol Bnei Adam, the man Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach Yehoshua,--

The man Christ Jesus.—St. Paul with special emphasis speaks of the “one Mediator between God and man” as “the man Christ Jesus,” no doubt wishing to bring into prominence the true humanity of the Lord.

It is also a silent refutation of the docetic errors of some of the false teachers, of whose doctrines Timothy was to beware. These would have persuaded men that the Christ Jesus who was nailed to the cross was no man, but simply a phantom.

"the man Christ Jesus" The emphasis of this verse is that Jesus is fully human and is still the only mediator between God and mankind (cf. John 14:6). The Gnostic false teachers would have denied Jesus' humanity (cf. John 1:14; 1 John 1:1-3).

Kinda what you are doing.

You can but haven't. I asked you several questions and you just keep repeating the same references that are not even your words.

Is DIRT/DUST in the immaculate image of Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach Yehoshua?
 
That is why I asked you which commentaries you would recommend brother-not Western "commentaries"

You're posting "western commentaries". Phillip Goble is an American.

Heb 11:15 If they had been thinking of that land from which they had gone out, they would have had opportunity to return.
Heb 11:16 But as it is, they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared for them a city.

Forget what you've always embraced.
 
If you want to start a list of how Jesus Christ wasn't limited by the Incarnation, we can. I've referenced it multiple ways. As I told your friend......

There has never been anyone like Jesus Christ. Never. Not even close. YOU however, insist that Jesus Christ was just like you. IDENTICAL TO YOU.
Identical... "But without sin"


For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin." Hebrews 4:15

Not only that.

When he arrived here on earth to be as a man, he still retained memories of what he had been before his needed transformation.


"And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began." John 17:5

..................
 
See that? To eternally exist = God!
2:6 "who although He existed" Literally this is "who being in the form of God." This is one of two present tenses (here a participle) in the midst of a series of Aorist tense verbs and participles. It emphasizes the pre-existence of Jesus of Nazareth (cf. John 1:1; 8:57-58; 17:5,24; 2 Cor. 8:9; Col. 1:17; Heb. 10:5-7). Jesus' pre-existence is another proof of His deity. Jesus did not come into being at Bethlehem. There has never been a time when Jesus did not exist and was not divine.

"in the nature of God" This is the Greek word morphē which is used in several senses.

1. an Aristotlian sense of essence

2. the sense of the nature of something or unchanging essence of something (this is how the early Church fathers interpreted it)

3. the outward form of something, as in the Septuagint (LXX). This does not mean that YHWH has a physical body, but that the attributes and characteristics-the very essence of God the Father-are evident in God the Son.

It is another way of asserting the full deity of Christ.

"did not regard equality with God" Literally this is "thought it not robbery to be equal with God." This is the other present tense (here an infinitive). The Greek term "equality" comes into English as "isometric." It is another way of asserting that Jesus is fully God (cf. John 1:1; Titus 2:13).

NASB"a thing to be grasped"
NKJV"robbery"
NRSV"something to be exploited"
TEV"that by force"
NJB"something to be grasped"

This rare Greek word, harpagmos, originally meant "the act of seizing something" or "a sought after prize" (harpagma). However, it could be used in a passive sense (Greek mos ending) meaning "that which is seized or held on to." A third possibility is "something that someone has but does not use for personal advantage." This is reflected in the Phillip's translation of Phil. 2:7: "stripped Himself of every advantage."

Jesus already possessed full equality with God. The theological reason for this phrase's ambiguity is the Adam/Christ typology, where Adam tried to grasp equality with God by eating the forbidden fruit (cf. Genesis 3). Jesus, the second Adam (cf. Rom 5:12ff), followed God's plan in perfect obedience where suffering preceded exaltation (cf. Isaiah 53).

2:7

NASB, NRSV,
NJB"emptied Himself"
NKJV"made Himself of no reputation"
TEV"of His own free will He gave up all He had"

The pronoun is emphatic. This was Jesus' own choice! There are several theories about what it meant that Jesus emptied Himself (cf. 2 Cor. 8:9).

1. Paul uses this term several times (cf. Rom. 4:14; 1 Cor. 1:17; 9:15; 2 Cor. 9:3). Apparently Jesus chose to live as a human. He voluntarily left His divine glory and accepted the limitations of flesh. Surely He still had greater insight and spiritual power than ordinary fallen mankind. He was what all humans were intended to be. He is the second Adam and more.

2. Jesus did not become less than God in His Incarnation, but He apparently added humanity to His deity. He left the outward glory of Deity and took on the outward form of a man. This involved addition, not subtraction. During Jesus' earthly ministry, He was filled and empowered by the Spirit, but also He was both fully God and fully human (tempted, Matthew 4; tried, John 4; afraid in Gethsemane, Mark 14:32-42). He truly knew and revealed the Father (cf. John 1:18). He was truly one with our humanity (cf. John 1:4).

3. It is possible that this emptying was a way of alluding to Isa. 53:1-3. If so, it related not to his humanity (Phil. 2:7-8a) but to His crucifixion (Phil. 2:8b) as the servant of YHWH (cf. Mark 10:45-15:53).

From my pastor brother-
 
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