brightfame52
Well-known member
Yes it is
The Elect
- Thread starter The Rogue Tomato
- Start date
The Spirit is given to those who believe
Galatians 3:2 (ESV) — 2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?
Galatians 3:5 (ESV) — 5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith—
Galatians 3:14 (ESV) — 14 so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.
Ephesians 3:17 (ESV) — 17 so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith—that you, being rooted and grounded in love,
John 7:38–39 (ESV) — 38 Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
unbelievers, the world cannot receive the Spirit
John 14:16–17 (ESV) — 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, 17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.
brightfame52
Well-known member
The Spirit is given to the redeemed in order to believe.
Sorry you just ignored scripture
The Spirit is given to those who believe
Galatians 3:2 (ESV) — 2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?
Galatians 3:5 (ESV) — 5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith—
Galatians 3:14 (ESV) — 14 so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.
Ephesians 3:17 (ESV) — 17 so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith—that you, being rooted and grounded in love,
John 7:38–39 (ESV) — 38 Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
unbelievers, the world cannot receive the Spirit
John 14:16–17 (ESV) — 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, 17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.
Redemption is for those who are in Christ through faith
Ephesians 1:7 (ESV) — 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,
Ephesians 1:13 (ESV) — 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
brightfame52
Well-known member
The Spirit is given to the redeemed Gal 4:4-6
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Those are sons not unbelievers
You need to stop ignoring scripture
previously posted
The Spirit is given to those who believe
Redemption is for those who are in Christ through faith
Ephesians 1:7 (ESV) — 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,
Ephesians 1:13 (ESV) — 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
Galatians 3:2 (ESV) — 2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?
Galatians 3:5 (ESV) — 5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith—
Galatians 3:14 (ESV) — 14 so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.
Ephesians 3:17 (ESV) — 17 so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith—that you, being rooted and grounded in love,
John 7:38–39 (ESV) — 38 Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
unbelievers, the world cannot receive the Spirit
John 14:16–17 (ESV) — 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, 17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.
Redemption is for those who are in Christ through faith
Ephesians 1:7 (ESV) — 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,
Ephesians 1:13 (ESV) — 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
brightfame52
Well-known member
Those whom God chose, Christ redeemed, the Spirit regenerates.
Those who believe receive the spirit
Those are sons not unbelievers
You need to stop ignoring scripture
previously posted
The Spirit is given to those who believe
Redemption is for those who are in Christ through faith
Ephesians 1:7 (ESV) — 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,
Ephesians 1:13 (ESV) — 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
Galatians 3:2 (ESV) — 2 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith?
Galatians 3:5 (ESV) — 5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith—
Galatians 3:14 (ESV) — 14 so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.
Ephesians 3:17 (ESV) — 17 so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith—that you, being rooted and grounded in love,
John 7:38–39 (ESV) — 38 Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
unbelievers, the world cannot receive the Spirit
John 14:16–17 (ESV) — 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, 17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.
Redemption is for those who are in Christ through faith
Ephesians 1:7 (ESV) — 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,
Ephesians 1:13 (ESV) — 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy
brightfame52
Well-known member
One believes after they're regenerated and or sanctified by the Spirit, 2 Thess 2:13
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
1 Pet 1:22
22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart ferventl
And that one must first be an Elect
God from the beginning chose to save gentiles as well as jews
you just ignore the fact life (regeneration) follows after faith not before it
The following verses show faith precedes life
John 5:24 (KJV) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
John 20:31 (KJV)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
John 5:40 (KJV)
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. (one comes to Jesus by faith)
Acts 11:18 (KJV)
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
Nothing about unconditional election in the verse
and you still ignore the context
It has nothing to do with the unsaved coming to faith
brightfame52
Well-known member
Those verses shows exactly who is regenerated unto Gospel obedience, Gods elect, jew or gentile
those who believe
John 5:24 (KJV) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
John 20:31 (KJV)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
John 5:40 (KJV)
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. (one comes to Jesus by faith)
Acts 11:18 (KJV)
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
There is no mention of any unconditionally elect in the verses.
The verses show God give life to those that believe, and you are simply reading your theology into them
brightfame52
Well-known member
The elect will be regenerated by the Spirit and believe/obey the Gospel
sorry nothing about any unconditionally elect in any of those verses which show those with faith are given life
brightfame52
Well-known member
Again the Elect will be regenerated unto obedience
again there no mention in the scripture of any being unconditionally elect to conversion
faith precedes regeneration
Regeneration by definition is the impartation of life
The following verses show faith precedes life
John 5:24 (KJV) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
John 20:31 (KJV)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
John 5:40 (KJV)
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. (one comes to Jesus by faith)
Acts 11:18 (KJV)
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
Regeneration makes one a child of God. Born of God -
One is made a child of God through faith
John 1:12 (KJV)
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Galatians 3:26 (KJV)
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
John 12:36 (KJV)
36 While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.
Regeneration is a spiritual resurrection. (all agree quickening - being made alive speaks of regeneration when spoken of the physically living)
We are raised spiritually through faith
Colossians 2:12 (KJV)
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
One is born again(regenerated) through faith in gospel
James 1:18 (KJV)
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
1 Corinthians 4:15 (KJV)
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
Of course unbelief does not profit so it must be through faith
Hebrews 4:2 (KJV 1900) — 2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
Regeneration is the mechanism of salvation
Titus 3:5 (KJV)
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Ephesians 2:5 (KJV)
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
it is through faith we are saved
EPH 2:8 (KJV)
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
.through - dia instrument or means in the genitive case - Vines
Regeneration is preceded by remission of sin
Colossians 2:13 (KJV)
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
God regenerates those he has forgiven
foregiveness requires both faith and repentance
Acts 10:43 (KJV)
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins
brightfame52
Well-known member
Again the Elect will be regenerated unto obedience 1 Pet 1:2
Nothing about unconditional election in the verse
1 Peter 1:1–2 (KJV 1900) — 1 PETER, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Again the Elect will be regenerated unto obedience 1 Pet 1:2
makesends
Well-known member
3 guesses how they have no capacity for belief! This contradicts nothing that I believe.
The question you are not mentioning here, is how does God keep them from believing if they have an intrinsic capacity for belief! Does that not violate their "free will"?
But they did grow hardened, didn't they! And so they cannot believe.
Well, no. He doesn't say they would, but that God keeps them from it. Again, though, explain why you consider them incapable of believing if he hides the truth from them. Doesn't that violate "free will"?
Most certainly does! 'Receive the word with joy' can mean one of two things: 1. They are indeed born again and fall away because of temptation, because either their gospel is weak, (such as what is taught to be by the will of man), or they remain immature, but they fall away only for a time. 2. They are not born again, but in joy receive the word with a false belief, and then fall away, having no root.
Notice, however, that "your theology cannot account for these verses", in that if God can harden hearts so that they are unable to believe in him, he has violated your notion of libertarian free will.
