The doctrine of election

[brightfame52]

I did, and it refutes your understanding of Romans 9 and you did not address it

T

Post in thread 'The doctrine of election'

Mar 25, 2025

Israels national election was not salvific, nothing to do with salvation election, there was another Israel within that Israel National that was about salvation Rom 9:6

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:


That Israel is the election of grace Rom 11:5-6 National Israel was under a covenant of works.

Oh, so you admit Israels election was not salvific?

Well, what do you think Romans 9 was addressing

Romans 9:10–13 (LEB) — 10 And not only this, but also when Rebecca conceived children by one man, Isaac...

• TomL

Your failure to address any rebuttal marks you as someone who should be heard.

Nothing changes. National Israel was never chosen to salvation as a nation, it was always only a small remnant within the nation

 

[TomL]

Nothing changes. National Israel was never chosen to salvation as a nation, it was always only a small remnant within the nation

You failed to correlate your affirmation with Romans 9 and the selection of Israel (Jacob) over Edom (Esau)

It was the selection of one nation over another nation is the service of God

Your lame rendering nothing changes does nothing at all to address this.

 

[brightfame52]

You failed to correlate your affirmation with Romans 9 and the selection of Israel (Jacob) over Edom (Esau)

It was the selection of one nation over another nation is the service of God

Your lame rendering nothing changes does nothing at all to address this.

Again nothing changes, the nation of israel was never chosen to salvation, only a remnant would be saved Rom 9 27

27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

 

[TibiasDad]

Salvation from sin and condemnation is unconditional, if conditional, then salvation would be of works, not by grace alone, which it is.

By grace through faith. If we don’t believe in Christ’s work, we cannot be saved. It is by grace conditioned on us believing that God has shown us his grace.

Doug

 

[brightfame52]

By grace through faith. If we don’t believe in Christ’s work, we cannot be saved. It is by grace conditioned on us believing that God has shown us his grace.

Doug

One cannot believe in Christ unless His Work saved them first

 

[TibiasDad]

One cannot believe in Christ unless His Work saved them first

Circular statement/argument!


Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

One cannot believe in Christ unless His Work saved them first

Acts 16:29The jailer called for lights, rushed in and fell trembling before Paul and Silas. 30He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”

31They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”

Which comes first, believing or salvation?

Hint: Believe is an Aorist Middle Active, and be saved is a Future Indicative Passive!

Doug

 

[brightfame52]

Circular statement/argument!


Doug

Lol, its true, otherwise the Gospel is hid to the lost and they believe not 2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

 

[TibiasDad]

Lol, its true, otherwise the Gospel is hid to the lost and they believe not 2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Acts 16:29The jailer called for lights, rushed in and fell trembling before Paul and Silas. 30He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”

31They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”

Which comes first, believing or salvation?

Hint: Believe is an Aorist Middle Active, and be saved is a Future Indicative Passive!

Doug

 

[brightfame52]

Acts 16:29The jailer called for lights, rushed in and fell trembling before Paul and Silas. 30He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”

31They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”

Which comes first, believing or salvation?

Hint: Believe is an Aorist Middle Active, and be saved is a Future Indicative Passive!

Doug

Jailor or not, if he was to believe the Gospel he would have to be saved, because its hid to the Lost 2 Cor 4:3-4

 

[TibiasDad]

Jailor or not, if he was to believe the Gospel he would have to be saved, because its hid to the Lost 2 Cor 4:3-4

1) As usual, you ignore the obvious that belief necessarily precedes salvation.

2) Who hides the gospel from men’s eyes? Not God’s decree, but the devil!

Doug

 

[civic]

1) As usual, you ignore the obvious that belief necessarily precedes salvation.

2) Who hides the gospel from men’s eyes? Not God’s decree, but the devil!

Doug

Amen

 

[brightfame52]

1) As usual, you ignore the obvious that belief necessarily precedes salvation.

2) Who hides the gospel from men’s eyes? Not God’s decree, but the devil!

Doug

You have presented nothing that can refute, reverse, do away with the fact that a lost person cannot believe the Apostolic Gospel because its permanently hid to the Lost and results in unbelief thats final 2 Cor 4:3-4

But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Now for instance, if the Jailor would believe the word that Paul preached to him as it stated here Acts 16:31

32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

If the Jailor believed the word of the Lord, that meant he was in a saved state when hearing the word, and it was not hid from him so he believed as Per vs 34 ;And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.

 

[TibiasDad]

You have presented nothing that can refute, reverse, do away with the fact that a lost person cannot believe the Apostolic Gospel because its permanently hid to the Lost and results in unbelief thats final 2 Cor 4:3-4

This is the only “fact” in play; nothing in the verses, in English or Greek, says, suggests or hints at the idea that a lost “cannot believe” or that the “gospel “, Apostolic or otherwise Biblical, is “permanently hid”den to the lost so that his doom “is final”!

Doug