The doctrine of election

[TibiasDad]

Ive presented enough to you, you just dont believe, but again, nobody in a lost condition can or will believe the Gospel, because while in a lost condition the Gospel is hidden from them. Now the elect shall be saved and then believe, however the non elect, shall never believe, because its never not going to be hidden from the lost

If that was your argument in a theology class you would fail. Exegete the verse in context and demonstrate the validity of your absolute statements.

Doug

 

[brightfame52]

If that was your argument in a theology class you would fail. Exegete the verse in context and demonstrate the validity of your absolute statements.

Doug

Im finished with it, you reject it, as long as a person is in a lost, unregenerated condition, the Gospel is hid from the so that they believe not. Thats been exegeted. You reject it

 

[brightfame52]

Being unmerited does not preclude conditions. We can never deserve God’s favor, and yet he says we must believe in order to “not perish, but have everlasting life.”

Belief precedes life.

Doug

This is a salvation by works philosophy and denies the Grace Salvation the bible reveals. If you condition your salvation on anything you do, any condition, say goodbye to Grace.

 

[TibiasDad]

This is a salvation by works philosophy and denies the Grace Salvation the bible reveals. If you condition your salvation on anything you do, any condition, say goodbye to Grace.

Grace is not based on whether man acts or not; it’s Grace because we cannot ever be deserving of God’s mercy to us. The flaw in your perspective is that it assumes that man’s actions necessitate worthiness and merit; it doesn’t! Nothing we do ever merits earning something. This shows that your conception of sin’s effect on man is sorely lacking if you think that any action of man can obligate God to be gracious to us due to that action.

Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

Thats been exegeted.

Not by you!

Doug

 

[Presby02]

Being unmerited does not preclude conditions. We can never deserve God’s favor, and yet he says we must believe in order to “not perish, but have everlasting life.”

Belief precedes life.

Doug

Exactly. So the grace by which your saved is merited. It has conditions you must meet. That's not unmerited favor or grace by definition.

 

[brightfame52]

Grace is not based on whether man acts or not; it’s Grace because we cannot ever be deserving of God’s mercy to us. The flaw in your perspective is that it assumes that man’s actions necessitate worthiness and merit; it doesn’t! Nothing we do ever merits earning something. This shows that your conception of sin’s effect on man is sorely lacking if you think that any action of man can obligate God to be gracious to us due to that action.

Doug

Yes sir, you make anything a condition you do in the salvation process, its works. Everything required for salvation was settled and taken care of in the legal phase of salvation by the Lord Jesus Christ, and its application is solely the work of the Spirit, not one iota was conditioned on man. Faith and obedience, repentance are all fruit of salvation. Now again if you add any conditions, kiss salvation by grace goodbye, you advocate works

 

[brightfame52]

Not by you!

Doug

Yes by me and Im sure others, and you are accountable for it, whether you admit it or not. The more light you reject, the greater your accountability. The Gospel is hid to the Lost, and consequently its foolishness to them 1 Cor 1:18

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

 

[TibiasDad]

Yes sir, you make anything a condition you do in the salvation process, its works. Everything required for salvation was settled and taken care of in the legal phase of salvation by the Lord Jesus Christ, and its application is solely the work of the Spirit, not one iota was conditioned on man. Faith and obedience, repentance are all fruit of salvation. Now again if you add any conditions, kiss salvation by grace goodbye, you advocate works

Let’s look at it this way:

A husband has an affair and his wife kicks him out of the house and serves him with divorce papers. After some time, he realizes his error and seeks reconciliation with his wife.

She responds by telling him that if he has ended the relationship with the other woman and will agree to “date” her (his wife) for a time to demonstrate his repentance then she would be interested in reconciling.

After fulfilling her wishes, she consented to reconciling and allowed him to move back home and stopped the divorce proceedings.

Did the wife have to give her husband a chance to return?


Doug

 

[brightfame52]

Let’s look at it this way:

A husband has an affair and his wife kicks him out of the house and serves him with divorce papers. After some time, he realizes his error and seeks reconciliation with his wife.

She responds by telling him that if he has ended the relationship with the other woman and will agree to “date” her (his wife) for a time to demonstrate his repentance then she would be interested in reconciling.

After fulfilling her wishes, she consented to reconciling and allowed him to move back home and stopped the divorce proceedings.

Did the wife have to give her husband a chance to return?


Doug

If you make anything a condition to do, to get saved, you advocate works and have departed from Grace salvation

 

[TibiasDad]

If you make anything a condition to do, to get saved, you advocate works and have departed from Grace salvation

You didn’t answer the question: Was the wife obligated to make the offer of reconciliation?

Doug

 

[brightfame52]

You didn’t answer the question: Was the wife obligated to make the offer of reconciliation?

Doug

You blatant in your denial of grace and conditioning salvation on what you do. And that foolish illustration is not even biblical, reconciliation in the matter of Christs death isn't offered, never ! That comes out of the figment of your imagination and not worth exchanging over.

 

[TibiasDad]

You blatant in your denial of grace and conditioning salvation on what you do. And that foolish illustration is not even biblical, reconciliation in the matter of Christs death isn't offered, never ! That comes out of the figment of your imagination and not worth exchanging over.

Was God obligated to save us? (Is that biblical enough?)


Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

If you make anything a condition to do, to get saved, you advocate works and have departed from Grace salvation

“Whoever believes will not perish but have life everlasting” - God

Doug

 

[brightfame52]

Was God obligated to save us? (Is that biblical enough?)


Doug

As long as you make something a condition to get saved, you deny grace.

 

[brightfame52]

“Whoever believes will not perish but have life everlasting” - God

Doug

Nothing about a condition there:

If you make anything a condition to do, to get saved, you advocate works and have departed from Grace salvation

 

[TibiasDad]

As long as you make something a condition to get saved, you deny grace.

The condition doesn’t obligate God.

Doug

 

[brightfame52]

The condition doesn’t obligate God.

Doug

Again, when you make anything you do a condition to get saved, its works and denies grace !

 

[TibiasDad]

Again, when you make anything you do a condition to get saved, its works and denies grace !

I didn’t make it, God did! Nothing I do can obligate God to act, that’s why is is based on his promise!


Doug

 

[brightfame52]

I didn’t make it, God did! Nothing I do can obligate God to act, that’s why is is based on his promise!


Doug

Dont lie on God. Christ fulfilled all the conditions God required for the Salvation of Chosen People. Now deny that