Yet here you are. LOL
The Calvinists eisegesis of John 6:55
- Thread starter civic
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Selah
Active Member
Yet here you are trying to discuss something you know nothing about apparently. My question was simple. Except for you I guess.
He wants to defend his theology.
He holds that God has determined everyone incapable of believing on God/Christ unless he has been unconditionally predestined before the foundation of the earth to do so.
Yet at the same time, claim man has a natural ability to do so.
This post is born out of ignorance. Explain the difference between moral and natural ability.
See, there he goes.
Trying to defend his theology while denying the meaning behind natural inability which was given to him multiple times.
Can you explain the difference between moral and natural ability?
The difference is a false concept. The limitation established in John 6:65 is not about ability; rather, it is about desire. Romans 3:9-20, specifically verse 11 says "no one seeks God". When we look at the history of mankind, we find every in tribe, every community, every nation those who look for that divine source of ultimate power, i.e., a god. So that Romans 3 does not say that "no one seeks a god" since all of mankind almost universally seeks a god. The truth is that no one can seek God unless God tells us who and what He is. That is the message of John 6:44-45 and 6:65. God had done that throughout the OT. The culmination of that is the coming of Jesus Christ and the resulting NT. God has told us who and what He is. We can now, with the OT and the NT in hand, seek God. That is the message reiterated in Romans 10:17. So it is not about ability; rather, it is about the desire, the longing, the yearning, to do so.
civic
Active Member
Maybe defining " moral " ability will help the discussion
Moral ability is an individual's innate or developed capacity to understand right from wrong and to act ethically, often involving the application of principles of goodness and fairness to guide one's decisions and behaviors in life and social interactions.
innate means natural, inborn.
so natural and moral are synonyms.
Moral ability is an individual's innate or developed capacity to understand right from wrong and to act ethically, often involving the application of principles of goodness and fairness to guide one's decisions and behaviors in life and social interactions.
innate means natural, inborn.
so natural and moral are synonyms.
atpollard
Active Member
I agree with "will not".
John 3:20 states [NKJV] "For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed." ... and who is "everyone practicing evil"?
According to Ephesians 2:1-3, "everyone practicing evil" is EVERYONE ... [NKJV] "And you [He made alive], who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others." ... prior to God making them "alive".
So if:
- EVERYONE practices evil [Eph 2:1-3]
- and those who practice evil WILL NOT come to God [John 3:20]
- then EVERYONE will not come to God!
- Until or unless GOD does something to change them ... "make alive" [Eph 2] or "draw" [John 6] or "give" [John 10]
Amazing grace! how sweet the sound,
That saved a wretch; like me!
I once was lost, but now am found,
Was blind, but now I see.
That saved a wretch; like me!
I once was lost, but now am found,
Was blind, but now I see.
’Twas grace that taught my heart to fear,
And grace my fears relieved;
How precious did that grace appear
The hour I first believed!
And grace my fears relieved;
How precious did that grace appear
The hour I first believed!
The Lord hath promised good to me,
His word my hope secures;
He will my shield and portion be
As long as life endures.
His word my hope secures;
He will my shield and portion be
As long as life endures.
When we’ve been there ten thousand years,
Bright shining as the sun,
We’ve no less days to sing God’s praise
Than when we first begun.
Bright shining as the sun,
We’ve no less days to sing God’s praise
Than when we first begun.
John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
John 5:25 "Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.
That is regeneration. Hear, believe, be made alive. Same message as Ephesians 2:1-10.
Selah
Active Member
Amen.
God gave us His Word (the Bible) to read. Why? …. so that we can know Him. In Isaiah 40:21, God asks:
“Have you not known? Have you not heard? Has it not been told you from the beginning? Have you not understood from the foundations of the earth?”
We can’t revere God if we don’t know Him.
Proverbs 9:10 “The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Holy One [is] understanding. Proverbs 9:10
How can we believe in the Creator if we don’t know anything about Him?
2 Timothy 2:15 (KJV) Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
s e l a h
Ya think? I can not get them to do it. LOLMaybe defining " moral " ability will help the discussion
Moral ability is an individual's innate or developed capacity to understand right from wrong and to act ethically, often involving the application of principles of goodness and fairness to guide one's decisions and behaviors in life and social interactions.
innate means natural, inborn.
so natural and moral are synonyms.
And the are not synonymous terms.
civic
Active Member
I just provided the definition. How are they different in your opinion ? Thanks
I meed your definition for natural ability which is not provided.
Natural = can
Moral = a willing disposition
civic
Active Member
in your moral definition does that mean someone willing can ?
Is desire not natural?
Don't make it not so either.
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