The Bible does not teach to pray to Jesus

[Runningman]

Thinking about this further, I find myself remembering that Jesus is our high priest, and we're told to bring our needs to throne of grace. Hebrews 4.

This is yet another place where we want to talk to him.

Don't nuke it. Just pray to the Father like the Bible teaches and you'll be fine.

 

[Runningman]

Sorry you mean you claimed while ignoring the context of the passages I mentioned

John 1:1–14 (KJV 1900) — 1 IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Philippians 2:3–8 (KJV 1900) — 3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. 4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others. 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

both clearly display a preincarnate being who became flesh

and I never did get you to explain how Phil 2:6 could ever refer to an impersonal thing

PS there is nothing about a storm in anything I posted

As far as the Word that "became" flesh goes, as I already pointed out above, it doesn't match how this word is used in Scripture. We can work with the idea that the Word "became" flesh but became doesn't suggest an incarnation based on how it's used in the New Testament.

If that were true, as I already pointed out above, that would mean that when "there arose" a great storm in Matthew 8:24 that it the storm existed as something else before it was a storm, yet still retained the nature of a storm, but that isn't how storms coming into being. They are caused by the effect of wind, temperature, pressure and other factors that give rise to the conditions in which a storm can develop. Furthermore, when Jesus spoke to the storm, the weather became perfectly calm in Matthew 8:26. If we apply your incarnated word idea to Matthew 8:24-26 based on your interpretation of "became" in John 1:14, then the seas were calmed by Jesus' words rather than words of Jesus themselves becoming a calm sea.

There are hundreds of examples like this all over the New Testament that don't match what you're saying. Your idea about an incarnate Word is unprecedented.

 

[Runningman]

Let's see what you asked for and I delivered:

I did that and you are now frantically trying to save face by opening up whatever strawman rabbit hole your imagination can dream up. Even your rabbit holes are futile and pitiful. For example, your strawman idea that the man of God is God is ridiculous. You now embarrass yourself with strawmen in addition to your dirt poor basic logic and English poor skills.

So you don't an actual rebuttal. You seem very bitter when you lose a debate.

 

[civic]

Let me tell you,before anyting else, that I appreciate our exchanges because you value reason and respect all people.
I consider these virtues gifts from God and I thank you and thank God for the opportunity to hold these exchanges.

In regard to your post, I want two share two points:

1. I didn’t have in mind any particular dichotomy about Christ’s nature.
For Baha’is the nature of Christ as a Manifestation of God is a mystery.
So, pondering what “percentage”, so to speak, of Christ attributes were human vs divine is out of the my mental capacity and spiritual willingness.

2. A Greek priest would not have any problem with the following statement: “the fact that Hercules was human does not mean that Hercules was not also god”. A Jewish priest, though, would have never agreed with the proposition “the fact that the Messiah will be a man does not mean that He won’t be also God”. This is because God, for a Jew in the post-exile period, was not a kind, category or class, but One Person, YHWH.
So, that’s the big difference between the polytheistic Greek perspective and the monotheistic Jew perspective.
I think The Trinity developed during the first two centuries to enable Greeks, Romans and other nations to digest the notion of a Messiah who comes from God, returns to God, takes us to God, but is not God.

I find nothing evil in the historical development of the Trinity. It enabled millions to start learning about Christ. I just think it is mistaken.
The only thing I find absolutely evil is to use the Trinity as an instrument to approve the eternal damnation of other people, to divide believers, to exert coercion and to validate bullying.

I have enjoyed our interaction and keeping things cordial,

 

[SteveB]

Don't nuke it. Just pray to the Father like the Bible teaches and you'll be fine.

I haven't "nuked it!"

Heb 4:14-16 WEB 14 Having then a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let’s hold tightly to our confession. 15 For we don’t have a high priest who can’t be touched with the feeling of our infirmities, but one who has been in all points tempted like we are, yet without sin. 16 Let’s therefore draw near with boldness to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and may find grace for help in time of need.


We have a great high priest.....
I'm not a catholic, so I wasn't raised in a tradition with priests.
But over the past 47+ years of learning to follow Jesus, I have and continue to see and experience the need and benefits of having a high priest to whom I'm able to bring my needs, so I can find favor/grace for help in my times of need.

This means I talk with him regarding my needs, so I can get the help I need.

I'm not saying we should talk to only Jesus.
I'm saying there are times when talking to Jesus is necessary based entirely on Hebrews 4:14-16.

 

[charismaticlady]

You are correct but Runningman wanted examples from the OT.

These are examples from the OT:

• 1 Kings 12:22 "But the Word of God came to Shemaiah the man of God, saying,"
• 1 Ch 17:3 "And it happened the same night the Word of God came to Nathan, saying,"

Unitarians certainly love their rabbit holes. They get nailed and then they ask "what about this?" or "what about that?". They're a silly bunch.

Great verses! I've never noticed them before!

 

[charismaticlady]

Heavenly Father or holy Father is how I typically address God.

Did you know that by praying to the Father you are also praying to Jesus? They are One. And so is the Spirit listening to your prayer as well. Isa. 9:6

 

[civic]

Did you know that by praying to the Father you are also praying to Jesus? They are One. And so is the Spirit listening to your prayer as well.

Amen since both are God and worthy of all our adoration, honor, praise, glory, worship and prayer.

 

[101G]

I am saying Jesus was on earth while another person who is in heaven referred to Jesus as his son

GINOLJC, to all
ERROR, only "ONE" sits on the throne in heaven read Revelation chapter 5 & 5. now last time, "who in Revelation 4 and 5 sits on the throne". the one whom you say is the Father or the Son. your answer Please.

101G.

 

[101G]

UM that is still two.

Lol, UM NO, that's only "ONE" PERSON, ....... you still don't understand H259 ECHAD nor G243 Allos .... do you. not two separate and distinct persons. but the same one person, "EQUALLY SHARED" .... in flesh. now .... if you cannot understand the "NUMERICAL DIFFERENCE" as to what G243 allos, and H259 ECHAD states, then you need to LEARN it. and the first place is Genesis 1:1. yes at the "BEGINNING".

101G.

 

[101G]

Echad is a compound unity - like a cluster of grapes

another ERROR of the day, Listen, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"

A. go and find out how he, the Lord is in the "FORM" of, of, of, God. B. go and find out how he, the Lord is "EQUAL .... WITH" God....

101G.

 

[101G]

There is no throne here

Who is God but not the father

Matthew 3:16–17 (KJV 1900) — 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Know anyone in heaven who bear a father to son relationship with Jesus

So easy for you to be wrong

another ERROR of the day. "there is no throne here?", you better read Revelation 4 and 5.
"Who is God but not the father" if true, then it's the Father who sits on the throne? because the Lamb stands before the throne. is this what you're saying? well 101G say the One who sits on the throne in Revelation 4 & 5 is the Lord Jesus. and it is the Lord Jesus who stand before the very throne he sits on..... and yes this is the same one PERSON. .... YIKES!

"Know anyone in heaven who bear a father to son relationship with Jesus", yes, the Lord who is Father to US, scripture, UNDERSTAND THE CONTEXT, 2 Corinthians 6:14 "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?" 2 Corinthians 6:15 "And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?" 2 Corinthians 6:16 "And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people." 2 Corinthians 6:17 "Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you," 2 Corinthians 6:18 "And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty."

so. who is the Lord Almighty? answer, Revelation 1:8 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty." Revelation 22:13 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last." the Alpha and Omega, is the First and the Last? ..... Revelation 1:17 "And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:" Revelation 1:18 "I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death."

TomL who is the ONLY "FIRST and LAST" who died and rose? Checkmate...... and this first and Last who rose is the ALMIGHTY. so, do you have two Almighties? ....... (smile), double checkmate.

101G

 

[TomL]

another ERROR of the day, Listen, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"

A. go and find out how he, the Lord is in the "FORM" of, of, of, God. B. go and find out how he, the Lord is "EQUAL .... WITH" God....

101G.

Newsflash Echad does not appear in Phil 2:6

And what does appear is contrary to your theology

Christ is portrayed as one who esteems another as better than themselves

 

[101G]

Newsflash Echad does not appear in Phil 2:6

BREAKING NEWS, it do in the term "ANOTHER" as G243 Allos. and here is the OT scripture to prove it. Zechariah 13:7 "Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones."
see that term "FELLOW", in Hebrew it's "ANOTHER" of the same sort.
H5997 עָמִית `amiyth (aw-meeth') n-m.
1. companionship.
2. (hence, concretely) a comrade or kindred man.
[from a primitive root meaning to associate]
KJV: another, fellow, neighbour.

and you do know that God "MY FELLOW" is the Lord Jesus here ..... see Matthews 26:31.

now notice definition #2. concretely a comrade or kindred man. Concretely? Kindred Man. let's see this in the NT of the Lord Jesus. Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."
see that term "Offspring", it is the Greek term,
G1085 γένος genos (ǰe'-nos) n.
kin.
{abstract or concrete, literal or figurative, individual or collective}
[from G1096]
KJV: born, country(-man), diversity, generation, kind(-red), nation, offspring, stock

KIN? yes as in kindred man in "MY FELLOW" yes, ANOTHER, (G243 Allos), of himself in .... Flesh, (CONCRETE), ... Oh my this is too easy.

Checkmate 3........

101G

 

[101G]

@TomL
Just in case if you didn't understand. ...... Diversity is the EQUAL SHARE or the Numerical difference of the ONE “PERSON” God, who is the H259 ECHAD of himself in flesh, (CONCRETE). oh this is so easy. THIS IS "diversified oneness".

101G.

 

[TomL]

another ERROR of the day. "there is no throne here?", you better read Revelation 4 and 5.
"Who is God but not the father" if true, then it's the Father who sits on the throne? because the Lamb stands before the throne. is this what you're saying? well 101G say the One who sits on the throne in Revelation 4 & 5 is the Lord Jesus. and it is the Lord Jesus who stand before the very throne he sits on..... and yes this is the same one PERSON. .... YIKES!

"Know anyone in heaven who bear a father to son relationship with Jesus", yes, the Lord who is Father to US, scripture, UNDERSTAND THE CONTEXT, 2 Corinthians 6:14 "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?" 2 Corinthians 6:15 "And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?" 2 Corinthians 6:16 "And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people." 2 Corinthians 6:17 "Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you," 2 Corinthians 6:18 "And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty."

so. who is the Lord Almighty? answer, Revelation 1:8 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty." Revelation 22:13 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last." the Alpha and Omega, is the First and the Last? ..... Revelation 1:17 "And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:" Revelation 1:18 "I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death."

TomL who is the ONLY "FIRST and LAST" who died and rose? Checkmate...... and this first and Last who rose is the ALMIGHTY. so, do you have two Almighties? ....... (smile), double checkmate.

101G

There is no throne here

Who is God but not the father

Matthew 3:16–17 (KJV 1900) — 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Know anyone in heaven who bears a father to son relationship with Jesus???????????

Well?

 

[TomL]

@TomL
Just in case if you didn't understand. ...... Diversity is the EQUAL SHARE or the Numerical difference of the ONE “PERSON” God, who is the H259 ECHAD of himself in flesh, (CONCRETE). oh this is so easy. THIS IS "diversified oneness".

101G.

Sorry no

It is a oneness of being but not of persons

You have the exact same person which is not diversity at all

 

[TomL]

BREAKING NEWS, it do in the term "ANOTHER" as G243 Allos. and here is the OT scripture to prove it. Zechariah 13:7 "Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones."
see that term "FELLOW", in Hebrew it's "ANOTHER" of the same sort.
H5997 עָמִית `amiyth (aw-meeth') n-m.
1. companionship.
2. (hence, concretely) a comrade or kindred man.
[from a primitive root meaning to associate]
KJV: another, fellow, neighbour.

Do you a globe to argue for a flat earth?

another of the same sort is two not one

and you do know that God "MY FELLOW" is the Lord Jesus here ..... see Matthews 26:31.

now notice definition #2. concretely a comrade or kindred man.

That is not the same exact man

hello

Its more than one man

A globe cannot be employed in a flat earth argument

 

[synergy]

So you don't an actual rebuttal. You seem very bitter when you lose a debate.

This is a statement from someone who not only projects his bitterness at being slammed by the Bible at every turn but has also proven to possess a dirt poor understand of basic logic, as evidenced by your statement here:

I believe something I don’t believe in

You just crack me up.

 

[101G]

There is no throne here

LOL, not a Physical throne.... lol, lol, nor a lazy boy type either.... lol, lol, . Listen and Learn. Hebrews 1:3 "Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;"
do you know what "sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high" or do you know and understand what this mean? Revelation 3:21 "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne." do you understand and know this?

Matthew 3:16–17 (KJV 1900) — 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Read the post 101G responded on this. just goto Genesis chapter 22 and see who spoke to Abraham from heaven about his .... "only begotten son" ...... (smile).... see this post below

• #29

101G.