Does the Bible Teach A Spiritual Israel?

[praise_yeshua]

Bigger context. Romans 9 already defined who Israel is as those who are both physical descendants of Abraham AND spiritual descendants by faith. God will not lose a single one of His elect, so all Israel, again, as previously defined by Paul in Romans, will be saved.

Hence why I am basically asking why you make God less than God in your doctrine.

So, is God the proverbial covenant breaker? Non-keeper of promises? Unfaithful? or... is He faithful? If not, can we trust I John 1:9?

Ah, you're not a calvinist. That doesn't help. You understand that that is God speaking to humans in terms they can understand, right? You are speaking as though God is one of us, in time. You know, time, the fire within which we burn. There is a lot about God that we do not know. Some things should be left as stated, with the understanding that we just can't truly understand what it means. That is, WHY did He repent? Was it determined?

You're the one that said it. If your really knew, you wouldn't have said it.

God does as He pleases but He is bound by His Character in all things. He can't be anything other than His Character demands.

Everything needs to be understood in the context of God's experience and Character.

I suppose you think God really isn't Eternal. Never ending. Worlds without end....

You have much to learn. If you just stop pretending your own Narnia....

 

[armylngst]

Not true at all. Foretold David? Where. Prove it.

I didn't say that. Jesus is of David because God declared it:
"God declared, “I will raise up for David a righteous Branch, and he shall reign as king.”"

Branch is another of the many names of Jesus. Jesus is also foretold to be a king, going all the way back to the wilderness. How else is Jesus to be a king if He isn't the seed of a king?

 

[praise_yeshua]

I didn't say that. Jesus is of David because God declared it:
"God declared, “I will raise up for David a righteous Branch, and he shall reign as king.”"

Branch is another of the many names of Jesus. Jesus is also foretold to be a king, going all the way back to the wilderness. How else is Jesus to be a king if He isn't the seed of a king?

This throne you're struggling with isn't built with hands. It is the throne of the heart brother.

That is what God saw in David. It is what God seeks from us all.

 

[armylngst]

This throne you're struggling with isn't built with hands. It is the throne of the heart brother.

That is what God saw in David. It is what God seeks from us all.

What throne? I don't see a throne mentioned in Psalms. Why, oh why, do you seek to invalidate the covenants of day and night? God made a covenant with David that there would be a king to sit on his throne (David's throne) forever. So, what day this week can we expect there to be no day or night?

Perhaps God foresaw you when He gave His "Thus saith the Lord"?

 

[praise_yeshua]

What throne? I don't see a throne mentioned in Psalms. Why, oh why, do you seek to invalidate the covenants of day and night? God made a covenant with David that there would be a king to sit on his throne (David's throne) forever. So, what day this week can we expect there to be no day or night?

Perhaps God foresaw you when He gave His "Thus saith the Lord"?

I don't believe God saw "me" in His "Thus saith the Lord". The purpose of God in creating mankind was to slowly and meticulously fashion Adam and his descendent after the 2nd Person of the Holy Trinity our Lord Jesus Christ.

WE... myself and God...... are learning one another. I know that might offend you, but I do believe this true. God is smarter than I am. He knows me better than I know myself but this process that exists were we become more like Jesus Christ is precious to our God.

David was beloved of God. I'm not rejecting such. I'm simply.... exactingly and meticulously recognizing the facts of our existence as they are "laid out" in time from the beginning. When we get it right, it all fits together perfectly.

God allowed Israel nationally to have a king. He did this because they refused to work with Him. To do EXACTLY what HE wanted. This entire life is a compromises between mankind and God. One day, there will be NO MORE compromises from God.

Compromise comes from God's love. So don't conflate what God REALLY desires with what "IS" or what "HAS BEEN". The only way you'll know the heart of God is through the Spirit of God and seeking Him.

You're mixing things together and it is become a mess for you.

God wants to sit on the "throne" of our heart.

1Co 6:19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own,
1Co 6:20 for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.

 

[armylngst]

I don't believe God saw "me" in His "Thus saith the Lord". The purpose of God in creating mankind was to slowly and meticulously fashion Adam and his descendent after the 2nd Person of the Holy Trinity our Lord Jesus Christ.

I don't either. It was meant to be a thought question. God's purpose in creating was to bring glory, honor and praise to Himself. A simpler way to put it, is God's reason was because He felt like it. I only say this because that is what Ephesians 1 basically says about God's selection of the elect. It was according to the good pleasure of His will. To me, that is almost, if not exactly, synonymous with... He felt like it.

WE... myself and God...... are learning one another. I know that might offend you, but I do believe this true. God is smarter than I am. He knows me better than I know myself but this process that exists were we become more like Jesus Christ is precious to our God.

If I have any issue it would be believing God learns anything from anyone, let alone from us. We learn from God. Who taught Jesus? (who is.... God?) Who even believed they could teach Jesus (God) anything? However, sanctification is the process of us becoming more like Jesus, and God wants, though the demand is not final, us to do that. There are those believers who fail, and they will get to see all their works burnt up in judgment, while they are saved though as through fire. Almost like saying they will enter glory naked, smelling of smoke.

God does desire this in all of His children, however, we are not robots, and we are not all the same.

David was beloved of God. I'm not rejecting such. I'm simply.... exactingly and meticulously recognizing the facts of our existence as they are "laid out" in time from the beginning. When we get it right, it all fits together perfectly.

And I am telling you that, just as God did not reveal, predict, etc that Gentiles would be welcomed into God's fold with open arms, (enter the church, the body of Christ), God did not reveal all about the Messiah all at once. Progressive revelation. We learned that the Messiah would come through David's lineage before we ever knew about a virgin birth. When you consider it all together, history unfolds in perfection. One of the prophetic instances with Moses was with the rock at Horeb (if I recall the place correctly). The first time equates to Jesus' first coming. Moses struck the rock as a slave owner strikes their slave/servant. The second time equates to Jesus' second coming as King, and you DO NOT striek a king, you talk to a king. One thing that strengthens the argument is the punishment Moses received was SEVERE. God didn't care that Moses was angry, and acted out of anger. You... do... not... strike... a... king. Not for any reason.

God allowed Israel nationally to have a king. He did this because they refused to work with Him. To do EXACTLY what HE wanted. This entire life is a compromises between mankind and God. One day, there will be NO MORE compromises from God.

Their refusing Him was what He wanted, though I must caveat immediately to say, what He determined. Everything, Jesus of David's seed, and born of a virgin, was not a spur of the moment decision. God didn't lose His mind when Israel rejected Him asking what He was going to do about the Messiah. God already knew. He had already determined this was what was going to happen.

Compromise comes from God's love. So don't conflate what God REALLY desires with what "IS" or what "HAS BEEN". The only way you'll know the heart of God is through the Spirit of God and seeking Him.

God doesn't compromise. It may appear to be compromise, but.. I'm still a determinist here. God has "compromised" before, and the ending for the person involved wasn't a good ending. (Think Hezekiah)

You're mixing things together and it is become a mess for you.
God wants to sit on the "throne" of our heart.

Um...no. That goes to far for me. To close to a Finney type heresy. God wants to be the pinnacle and focal point of our heart, soul and mind. He won't stop at heart.

1Co 6:19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own,
1Co 6:20 for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body.

That does not speak about God sitting on the throne of our heart. It speaks to who we are. We have the Holy Spirit, and as such we are a standing walking temple of His indwelling. A poster child. Just as a poster child for sobriety shouldn't be drinking adult beverages by the gallon, (or at all), we as the temple of the Holy Spirit are to act like it. We are not our own. God bought us for a price so we are His. Live like you are His.

 

[Jim]

Projecting again the false teaching is your replacement theology

What replacement theology?

 

[civic]

What replacement theology?

the church has replaced Israel, the Jews. God is done with them as a promised people from the O.T. That means there is no future kingdom where Christ rules and reigns from Jerusalem. No millennium, no new heavens, new earth, no heavenly Jerusalem coming out of heaven to earth, the new city described in detail in Revelation which fulfills all the OT prophecies yet to come. And much ,more these are just a few things off the top of my head.

 

[Jim]

I don't either. It was meant to be a thought question. God's purpose in creating was to bring glory, honor and praise to Himself. A simpler way to put it, is God's reason was because He felt like it. I only say this because that is what Ephesians 1 basically says about God's selection of the elect. It was according to the good pleasure of His will. To me, that is almost, if not exactly, synonymous with... He felt like it.

And so He brought glory, honor and praise to Himself by producing a world full of beings that almost universally He will commit to eternal condemnation. I don't think that you are seeing the "big picture" very well.

 

[Jim]

the church has replaced Israel, the Jews. God is done with them as a promised people from the O.T. That means there is no future kingdom where Christ rules and reigns from Jerusalem. No millennium, no new heavens, new earth, no heavenly Jerusalem coming out of heaven to earth, the new city described in detail in Revelation which fulfills all the OT prophecies yet to come. And much ,more these are just a few things off the top of my head.

I believe in the millennium, the new heavens, the new earth, the heavenly Jerusalem. I just don't believe your interpretation of what those are; an interpretation that derives from your adherence to premillennialism, not from the Bible. You treat premillennialism as the Calvinist treats Total Depravity.

Paul said, "For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel" (Rom 9:6). So, who or what is Israel?

 

[armylngst]

And so He brought glory, honor and praise to Himself by producing a world full of beings that almost universally He will commit to eternal condemnation. I don't think that you are seeing the "big picture" very well.

You aren't presenting things properly by talking about big picture, and then talking about the little picture. If God didn't commit sinners to eternal condemnation, that most certainly would not bring Him glorry, honor and praise. It would be an injustice. He would present Himself as weak.

The glorry, honor and praise comes from the fact that while sinners are commited to eternal condemnation, He chose to save some by His mercy. It isn't much glory, honor, and praise, if He allows people to choose Him, because then none might. However, to, of His own volition, choose to take His enemies, and by His own action and choice through mercy, make them His friends, now that is noteworthiness of a whole other level. He didn't let them choose to be His friends. That isn't how offense/sin against God works. God didn't choose to overlook the fact that they are His enemies, and that they are sinners. He in and of Himself removed/cancelled out the offense/sin, and made them His friends. God acted, in and of Himself made the way fo salvation, and chose some of those who are His enemies to bring to that salvation. The key word is justification/justified. It is not something any man can do for themselves. No man can walk up to God, set up a box, get on said box and declare before God that they are justified. It doesn't work that way. God is the one who, in and of Himself, by HIS choice, declares a man justified before Him. If God refuses to justify, it doesn't matter how many altar calls, how many times you ask Jesus into your heart, etc. YOU ARE NOT JUSTIFIED. Only God can do that. And... God does it on HIS terms, not ours.

 

[Jim]

The glorry, honor and praise comes from the fact that while sinners are commited to eternal condemnation, He chose to save some by His mercy.

Could He not have produced only those He chose to save? Why produce all those He, according to your view of things, chose not to save?

 

[praise_yeshua]

I don't either. It was meant to be a thought question. God's purpose in creating was to bring glory, honor and praise to Himself. A simpler way to put it, is God's reason was because He felt like it. I only say this because that is what Ephesians 1 basically says about God's selection of the elect. It was according to the good pleasure of His will. To me, that is almost, if not exactly, synonymous with... He felt like it.

If I have any issue it would be believing God learns anything from anyone, let alone from us. We learn from God. Who taught Jesus? (who is.... God?) Who even believed they could teach Jesus (God) anything? However, sanctification is the process of us becoming more like Jesus, and God wants, though the demand is not final, us to do that. There are those believers who fail, and they will get to see all their works burnt up in judgment, while they are saved though as through fire. Almost like saying they will enter glory naked, smelling of smoke.

God does desire this in all of His children, however, we are not robots, and we are not all the same.

And I am telling you that, just as God did not reveal, predict, etc that Gentiles would be welcomed into God's fold with open arms, (enter the church, the body of Christ), God did not reveal all about the Messiah all at once. Progressive revelation. We learned that the Messiah would come through David's lineage before we ever knew about a virgin birth. When you consider it all together, history unfolds in perfection. One of the prophetic instances with Moses was with the rock at Horeb (if I recall the place correctly). The first time equates to Jesus' first coming. Moses struck the rock as a slave owner strikes their slave/servant. The second time equates to Jesus' second coming as King, and you DO NOT striek a king, you talk to a king. One thing that strengthens the argument is the punishment Moses received was SEVERE. God didn't care that Moses was angry, and acted out of anger. You... do... not... strike... a... king. Not for any reason.

Their refusing Him was what He wanted, though I must caveat immediately to say, what He determined. Everything, Jesus of David's seed, and born of a virgin, was not a spur of the moment decision. God didn't lose His mind when Israel rejected Him asking what He was going to do about the Messiah. God already knew. He had already determined this was what was going to happen.

God doesn't compromise. It may appear to be compromise, but.. I'm still a determinist here. God has "compromised" before, and the ending for the person involved wasn't a good ending. (Think Hezekiah)

Um...no. That goes to far for me. To close to a Finney type heresy. God wants to be the pinnacle and focal point of our heart, soul and mind. He won't stop at heart.

That does not speak about God sitting on the throne of our heart. It speaks to who we are. We have the Holy Spirit, and as such we are a standing walking temple of His indwelling. A poster child. Just as a poster child for sobriety shouldn't be drinking adult beverages by the gallon, (or at all), we as the temple of the Holy Spirit are to act like it. We are not our own. God bought us for a price so we are His. Live like you are His.

I started to reply in detail, but I'm going to ask you a targeted question that will destroy your beliefs. Jesus made a statement to a group of Jews (His earthy disciples).

Luk 12:32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

What kingdom is this?

 

[praise_yeshua]

the church has replaced Israel, the Jews. God is done with them as a promised people from the O.T. That means there is no future kingdom where Christ rules and reigns from Jerusalem. No millennium, no new heavens, new earth, no heavenly Jerusalem coming out of heaven to earth, the new city described in detail in Revelation which fulfills all the OT prophecies yet to come. And much ,more these are just a few things off the top of my head.

The church is made up of Israel. There is no real distinction. Why the separation? It is a false dilemma.

Christ is not divided. The kingdom isn't about anything that the MASSOD are murdering Christians over.....

Luke 12:32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

The "Church/Assembly" is all "ONE". There isn't a gathering "assembly" without Christ.

You know I respect you greatly. Show me a separate gathering. The city Abraham "looked for" wasn't ruled by Solomon.

It will come down from God.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Um...no. That goes to far for me. To close to a Finney type heresy. God wants to be the pinnacle and focal point of our heart, soul and mind. He won't stop at heart.

Finney.... Geesh. Finney couldn't please anyone. I'm not certainly nothing like Finney.

I told you the truth. Your heart is not right with God. You want your own way. You're not allowing Christ to rule in your heart.

There is really only one context of any Greek word that equals what you believe about "ruling" something. It is found in

Col 3:15 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also you are called in one body; and be ye thankful.

Who is our peace?

Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

You still believe there is a wall that stands between the various nations of the earth. That is a false gospel that promotes the MASSOD.

That does not speak about God sitting on the throne of our heart. It speaks to who we are. We have the Holy Spirit, and as such we are a standing walking temple of His indwelling. A poster child. Just as a poster child for sobriety shouldn't be drinking adult beverages by the gallon, (or at all), we as the temple of the Holy Spirit are to act like it. We are not our own. God bought us for a price so we are His. Live like you are His.

Jesus spoke about His temple in

Joh 2:18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
Joh 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
Joh 2:20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
Joh 2:21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
Joh 2:22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

I suppose Jesus got it wrong too?

Jesus was the "temple" when He offered Himself for humanity "outside the gate". You're looking for foolish things.

 

[jeremiah1five]

On the day of the Jewish Feast of Harvest (Pentecost) which is recorded in Acts 2, the Holy Spirit of Promise PROMISED TO ISRAEL (Joel), three thousand Jews were born-again by the very Spirit that God promised to Israel. On that day natural Olive tree Israel became spiritual Olive tree Israel.
God's Spirit was never promised to non-Hebrews.

 

[praise_yeshua]

On the day of the Jewish Feast of Harvest (Pentecost) which is recorded in Acts 2, the Holy Spirit of Promise PROMISED TO ISRAEL (Joel), three thousand Jews were born-again by the very Spirit that God promised to Israel. On that day natural Olive tree Israel became spiritual Olive tree Israel.
God's Spirit was never promised to non-Hebrews.

You were almost there.......

Unless you're going to say you actually believe Romans 2 and Galatians 3

There is only one heir of Abraham with everlasting promises.

 

[Jim]

YOU ARE NOT JUSTIFIED. Only God can do that. And... God does it on HIS terms, not ours.

So why in the world does God not justify everyone?

 

[praise_yeshua]

So why in the world does God not justify everyone?

Just more Calvinist nonsense. It is a natural fit to me. Calvinists usually have no problem promoting what they believe "Jews" are above everyone else.

Our words justify or condemn us

Mat 12:34 Offspring of vipers! How are you able to say anything good, since you are evil? For the mouth speaks from what fills the heart.
Mat 12:35 The good person brings good things out of his good treasury, and the evil person brings evil things out of his evil treasury.
Mat 12:36 I tell you that on the day of judgment, people will give an account for every worthless word they speak.
Mat 12:37 For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”

 

[jeremiah1five]

You were almost there.......

Unless you're going to say you actually believe Romans 2 and Galatians 3

There is only one heir of Abraham with everlasting promises.

There was only one heir to Abraham, too. Isaac. Then, there was only one heir to Isaac: Jacob. Then, there was one heir to Jacob: Reuben. Then, Joseph. Then...
...until we come to Jesus. Who had no children. Thus, the Promises in Him are yea and yea.