The Trinity study ,plural references to God in the Old Testament:Plural nouns, pronouns, verbs, adverbs

[Runningman]

If that could Save anyone, then JESUS death was a mute point.

If Jesus were just a man, he would of been conceived and born in sin = already contaminated with sin

Yeah, the only ways into heaven are be perfect or forgiven. Even Jesus required a savior (Hebrews 5:7) and faced judgement (1 Timothy 3:16) and was found innocent because he's a human and under the same law of God like everyone else (Romans 9:1-5)

Hebrews 5
7During the days of Jesus’ earthly life, He offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the One who could save Him from death, and He was heard because of His reverence.

1 Tim 3
16By common confession, the mystery of godliness is great:
He appeared in the flesh,
was vindicated by the Spirit,
was seen by angels,
was proclaimed among the nations,
was believed in throughout the world,
was taken up in glory.

Romans 9
1I am speaking the truth in Christ, I am not lying; my conscience bears me witness in the Holy Spirit, 2that I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. 3For I could wish that I myself were accursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brethren, my kinsmen by race. 4They are Israelites, and to them belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; 5to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ. God who is over all be blessed for ever.

 

[Capbook]

The Philippian 2 explanation you have provided doesn't jive with the context. Begin with Philippians 2:5 where Paul said "Let this mind be in you that was also in Christ Jesus:" and I might add it ends with a colon in every English translation. When a colon is used in a sentence it introduce something that explains, clarifies, or gives examples of what comes before it. So when a list comes after a colon it means “Here is what I’m talking about.”

5Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus:

Here is what Paul is talking about:

1. existing in the form of God
2. did not consider equality with God something to be grasped
3. emptied himself
4. taking the form of a servant
5. made in human likeness
6. being found in appearance as a man
7. he humbled himself
8. became obedient to death, even death on a cross.

So was Paul telling the church of Philippi to believe they are God, like you seem to be suggesting, or was Paul telling them to have the kind of mind that is humanly attainable and reasonable to have? What the reasonable conclusion is here is that Paul was not trying to say Jesus is God, Paul was teaching the Philippians how to be like Jesus because he's a human as Paul explicitly stated in Philippians 2:7,8. Doesn't make sense if Jesus is God.

The difference between our discussion is, I consult Bible lexicons to know the meaning of original Bible words at the time it was used, unlike to yours, is your own private interpretation.

Here, let me explain further, the Word that was God became flesh in relation to Philippians 2.
We know that John the Baptist is six months older than Jesus but he know that Jesus existed before him of as the bloodless Word that was God from the beginning, Whom He emptied Himself to become flesh, and had blood to shed and accomplish the plan of salvation to all mankind in faith, including you and me.

Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Joh 1:15 John *testified about Him and cried out, saying, "This was He of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.'"

 

[amazing grace]

Please explain how you derived at this = "his Father sent him."

I really don't know what there is to explain......it seems pretty self explanatory to me - "His Father sent him".

But here are a few verses for you:
Whoever receives you receives me, and whoever receives me receives him who sent me. [Matt. 10:40]
“Whoever receives one such child in my name receives me, and whoever receives me, receives not me but him who sent me.” [Mark 9:37]
“The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed, [Luke 4:18]
“The one who hears you hears me, and the one who rejects you rejects me, and the one who rejects me rejects him who sent me.” [Luke 10:16]
For he whom God has sent utters the words of God, for he gives the Spirit without measure. [John 3:34]
Jesus said to them, “My food is to do the will of him who sent me and to accomplish his work. [John 4:34]
I can do nothing on my own. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me. [John 5:30] + many more.

 

[DavidTree]

I really don't know what there is to explain......it seems pretty self explanatory to me - "His Father sent him".

But here are a few verses for you:
Whoever receives you receives me, and whoever receives me receives him who sent me. [Matt. 10:40]
“Whoever receives one such child in my name receives me, and whoever receives me, receives not me but him who sent me.” [Mark 9:37]
“The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed, [Luke 4:18]
“The one who hears you hears me, and the one who rejects you rejects me, and the one who rejects me rejects him who sent me.” [Luke 10:16]
For he whom God has sent utters the words of God, for he gives the Spirit without measure. [John 3:34]
Jesus said to them, “My food is to do the will of him who sent me and to accomplish his work. [John 4:34]
I can do nothing on my own. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me. [John 5:30] + many more.

Then JESUS Pre-Existed as the WORD that was GOD.

There is no other Place for the WORD to have Come From.

 

[amazing grace]

Then JESUS Pre-Existed as the WORD that was GOD.

There is no other Place for the WORD to have Come From.

Were we talking about preexistence? I don't think so.

There is another place for Jesus to have come from ---- He was conceived in the womb of Mary and Mary gave birth to a Son, namely Jesus. Which is exactly how Jesus came from God, how God sent him, how God gave him, how he came from heaven, etc.

 

[DavidTree]

Were we talking about preexistence? I don't think so.

There is another place for Jesus to have come from ---- He was conceived in the womb of Mary and Mary gave birth to a Son, namely Jesus. Which is exactly how Jesus came from God, how God sent him, how God gave him, how he came from heaven, etc.

The Angel told Mary that the child placed inside her was not from her but from the FATHER = Luke 1:26-37

Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent by God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth, 27to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. The virgin’s name was Mary. 28And having come in, the angel said to her, “Rejoice, highly favored one, the Lord is with you; blessed are you among women!”

29But when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and considered what manner of greeting this was. 30Then the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. 31And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name Jesus. 32He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. 33And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end.”

34Then Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I do not know a man?”

35And the angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, the Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.

 

[Runningman]

The difference between our discussion is, I consult Bible lexicons to know the meaning of original Bible words at the time it was used, unlike to yours, is your own private interpretation.

Here, let me explain further, the Word that was God became flesh in relation to Philippians 2.
We know that John the Baptist is six months older than Jesus but he know that Jesus existed before him of as the bloodless Word that was God from the beginning, Whom He emptied Himself to become flesh, and had blood to shed and accomplish the plan of salvation to all mankind in faith, including you and me.

Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Joh 1:15 John *testified about Him and cried out, saying, "This was He of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.'"

The Word was not God because if God became flesh, that isn't an incarnation, but rather a transformation from something into something else. Therefore, the flesh would be God, therefore the flesh is an idol, and it contradicts the Bible 7 ways to Sunday. Test your theories against sound reasoning before jumping to inappropriate conclusions. Consult your lexicon on what the word "became" means and read more of the context of John 1. Plainly, Jesus was created, which is stated elsewhere in the Bible (Colossians 1:15, Revelation 3:14)

And consult your lexicon about John 1:15 regarding "he existed before me." The Greek word prótos means principal, most important which means John 1:15 be can be translated as "he is more important than me" which makes sense since Jesus didn't pre-exist and John was older than Jesus, but not as important as Jesus.

 

[amazing grace]

The Angel told Mary that the child placed inside her was not from her but from the FATHER = Luke 1:26-37

Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent by God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth, 27to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. The virgin’s name was Mary. 28And having come in, the angel said to her, “Rejoice, highly favored one, the Lord is with you; blessed are you among women!”

29But when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and considered what manner of greeting this was. 30Then the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. 31And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name Jesus. 32He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. 33And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end.”

34Then Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I do not know a man?”

35And the angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you; therefore, also, the Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.

<snip>
There is another place for Jesus to have come from ---- He was conceived in the womb of Mary and Mary gave birth to a Son, namely Jesus. Which is exactly how Jesus came from God, how God sent him, how God gave him, how he came from heaven, etc.

I believe that is what I said.

 

[DavidTree]

I believe that is what I said.

No, you and @Runningman believe the false doctrine of jw.


You both believe that Mary was the progenitor - whereas GOD the FATHER was the Progenitor of the WORD becoming flesh.

Mary was the incubator for the flesh body prepared inside her for the WORD that was GOD to become flesh.

Who is the 'He' of Hebrews 10:5-7 ???

Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:

“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
To do Your will, O God.’ ”

 

[amazing grace]

No, you and @Runningman believe the false doctrine of jw.

I am not a JW or else I would be claiming Jesus was the archangel, Michael.

You both believe that Mary was the progenitor - whereas GOD the FATHER was the Progenitor of the WORD becoming flesh.

According to Jesus' genealogy he is descended from Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David, etc. Jesus was a Jew from the tribe of Judah.

Mary was the incubator for the flesh body prepared inside her for the WORD that was GOD to become flesh.

Mary was the 'incubator' for God? How little regard you have for the young woman God chose to be the mother of his Son!

Who is the 'He' of Hebrews 10:5-7 ???
Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:
“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
To do Your will, O God.’ ”

The Messiah, Christ is the HE at Hebrews 10:4:
Consequently, when Christ came into the world, HE said, ........ Christ came into the world and we have discussed HOW Christ came into the world as recorded in Matthew and Luke.

"A body you have prepared for me" ---- A body God has prepared for Christ ---- the body that Jesus was born in and the body which was sacrificed on the cross for the sins of the world. NOT MARY'S BODY AS AN INCUBATOR!!!!

He does away with the first in order to establish the second. And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. [Hebrews 10:9b,10]
Hebrews 10 a comparison of the old way of sacrifice - throught prepared animals - goats, bulls - with the sacrifice Jesus made through his shed blood and the death of his body.

Yep, in the volume of the book it is written of me......Jesus is the subject of scripture from Genesis 3:15 through Revelation 22.

Who came to do the will of God? Jesus, the Messiah, the Son of God. I don't think God came to do the will of God.

 

[DavidTree]

I am not a JW or else I would be claiming Jesus was the archangel, Michael.

According to Jesus' genealogy he is descended from Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David, etc. Jesus was a Jew from the tribe of Judah.

Mary was the 'incubator' for God? How little regard you have for the young woman God chose to be the mother of his Son!

The Messiah, Christ is the HE at Hebrews 10:4:
Consequently, when Christ came into the world, HE said, ........ Christ came into the world and we have discussed HOW Christ came into the world as recorded in Matthew and Luke.

"A body you have prepared for me" ---- A body God has prepared for Christ ---- the body that Jesus was born in and the body which was sacrificed on the cross for the sins of the world. NOT MARY'S BODY AS AN INCUBATOR!!!!

He does away with the first in order to establish the second. And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. [Hebrews 10:9b,10]
Hebrews 10 a comparison of the old way of sacrifice - throught prepared animals - goats, bulls - with the sacrifice Jesus made through his shed blood and the death of his body.

Yep, in the volume of the book it is written of me......Jesus is the subject of scripture from Genesis 3:15 through Revelation 22.

Who came to do the will of God? Jesus, the Messiah, the Son of God. I don't think God came to do the will of God.

HERESEY = "mother of God"

TRUTH = The HOLY SPIRIT used an egg from Mary to prepare the flesh body for the WORD that was GOD

Mary was mother of the 'flesh body' for Mary could never begat GOD = John 1:1 and Hebrews 10:5-7

Every women's womb was DESIGNED as a incubator for the life development of the child inside the womb.

A woman's womb was DESIGNED for Conception, Development/Incubation of the child for 9 months then Delivery.

This is the why woman of the world have such hatred toward God and why they demand the 'right' to abort/destroy their child.

 

[amazing grace]

HERESEY = "mother of God"

You are the one who is making Mary the Mother of God by claiming that Jesus is God - not me

TRUTH = The HOLY SPIRIT used an egg from Mary to prepare the flesh body for the WORD that was GOD

Truth - I agree that Mary's egg was used in the creation of a human being, the body of Jesus --- NOT a body for God.

Mary was mother of the 'flesh body' for Mary could never begat GOD = John 1:1 and Hebrews 10:5-

Every women's womb was DESIGNED as a incubator for the life development of the child inside the womb.

A woman's womb was DESIGNED for Conception, Development/Incubation of the child for 9 months then Delivery.

This is the why woman of the world have such hatred toward God and why they demand the 'right' to abort/destroy their child.

Again, I am not the one saying Mary conceived God --- I don't believe Jesus was God.

Women have hatred toward God?? First I have heard of that.

 

[Runningman]

No, you and @Runningman believe the false doctrine of jw.


You both believe that Mary was the progenitor - whereas GOD the FATHER was the Progenitor of the WORD becoming flesh.

Mary was the incubator for the flesh body prepared inside her for the WORD that was GOD to become flesh.

Who is the 'He' of Hebrews 10:5-7 ???

Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:

“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
To do Your will, O God.’ ”

You're making too many theological assumptions. Being born or coming into the world isn't meant to be interpreted as a pre-existence, unless you're trying to suggest that all people who are born pre-existed their birth in the same supernatural sense you claim Jesus did.

John 16
21A woman has pain in childbirth because her time has come; but when she brings forth her child, she forgets her anguish because of her joy that a child has been born into the world.

Whenever the Bible says Jesus came into the world it just refers to his birth, nothing more. The thing that were written about Jesus are prophecy.

 

[mikesw]

You're making too many theological assumptions. Being born or coming into the world isn't meant to be interpreted as a pre-existence, unless you're trying to suggest that all people who are born pre-existed their birth in the same supernatural sense you claim Jesus did.

John 16
21A woman has pain in childbirth because her time has come; but when she brings forth her child, she forgets her anguish because of her joy that a child has been born into the world.

Whenever the Bible says Jesus came into the world it just refers to his birth, nothing more. The thing that were written about Jesus are prophecy.

stop reducing who Christ while converting everything of his divine origin to mere natural humanity.

you only respond to a tiny bit of David Tree's evidence and think you have made an argument against Jesus.

 

[DavidTree]

You're making too many theological assumptions. Being born or coming into the world isn't meant to be interpreted as a pre-existence, unless you're trying to suggest that all people who are born pre-existed their birth in the same supernatural sense you claim Jesus did.

John 16
21A woman has pain in childbirth because her time has come; but when she brings forth her child, she forgets her anguish because of her joy that a child has been born into the world.

Whenever the Bible says Jesus came into the world it just refers to his birth, nothing more. The thing that were written about Jesus are prophecy.

At what point did Jesus Christ come into existence?


The WORD that was GOD left Heaven when HE entered into Mary's womb via the HOLY SPIRIT.

Only the physical flesh body came into existence when the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary = Hebrews 10:5-7 and Luke 1:34-35

Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:

“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
To do Your will, O God.’ ”

Then Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I do not know a man?”

And the angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you;
therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Then how can He exist at both the beginning and the end?

SIMPLE = HE Always EXISTED as ELOHIM

John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

HE always EXISTED
John 1:2 - He was in the beginning with God.

HE is the Alpha and the Omega because ALL THINGS were CREATED thru HIM
John 1:3 - All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

Conclusion of TRUTH
HE is the Alpha and the Omega because HE is the Beginning and the End of the Eternal Plan of Salvation for Man made in the Image of ELOHIM.

GENESIS is the BEGINNING = In the Beginning ELOHIM

REVELATION is the END(COMPLETION)
And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb.
In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him. They shall see His face, and His name shall be on their foreheads. There shall be no night there: They need no lamp nor light of the sun, for the Lord God gives them light. And they shall reign forever and ever.

 

[DavidTree]

Truth - I agree that Mary's egg was used in the creation of a human being, the body of Jesus --- NOT a body for God.

NOT a body for God???

Are you 100% certain???

LOOK-n-SEE
That you may BELIEVE
IAM HE

Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: After His mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit. Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not wanting to make her a public example, was minded to put her away secretly. But while he thought about these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.”

So all this was done that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying:
“Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,”
which is translated, “God with us.”

 

[amazing grace]

NOT a body for God???

Are you 100% certain???

LOOK-n-SEE
That you may BELIEVE
IAM HE

Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: After His mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit. Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not wanting to make her a public example, was minded to put her away secretly. But while he thought about these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.”

So all this was done that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying:
“Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,”
which is translated, “God with us.”

Yep, I am 100% certain.

Immanuel = God with us or God is with us --- God was with us through Jesus Christ - God was not with us literally, but working powerfully throught his Son, just as 2 Corinthians 5:19 indicates: “That God was in Christ, reconciling the world to Himself” (NKJV). It is important to read exactly what was written: God was in Christ, not God was Christ.

The woman said to him, “I know that Messiah is coming (he who is called Christ). When he comes, he will tell us all things.” Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am he.”........ Yes, Jesus is the Messiah. And yes, he was 'before Abraham' in the foreknowledge of God.

 

[Runningman]

stop reducing who Christ while converting everything of his divine origin to mere natural humanity.

you only respond to a tiny bit of David Tree's evidence and think you have made an argument against Jesus.

Stop making Jesus out to be someone he isn't.

Yes, I don't need run down every rabbit hole with you all if I can just sweep your arguments off their feet with one point. The premise and conclusion cannot follow soundly since coming into the world is demonstrably about just simply being born. Actually, people still talk this way about live birth. When someone is born they say they brought them into the world.

 

[Runningman]

At what point did Jesus Christ come into existence?


The WORD that was GOD left Heaven when HE entered into Mary's womb via the HOLY SPIRIT.

Only the physical flesh body came into existence when the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary = Hebrews 10:5-7 and Luke 1:34-35

Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:

“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
To do Your will, O God.’ ”

Then Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I do not know a man?”

And the angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Highest will overshadow you;
therefore, also, that Holy One who is to be born will be called the Son of God.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Then how can He exist at both the beginning and the end?

SIMPLE = HE Always EXISTED as ELOHIM

John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

HE always EXISTED
John 1:2 - He was in the beginning with God.

HE is the Alpha and the Omega because ALL THINGS were CREATED thru HIM
John 1:3 - All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

Conclusion of TRUTH
HE is the Alpha and the Omega because HE is the Beginning and the End of the Eternal Plan of Salvation for Man made in the Image of ELOHIM.

GENESIS is the BEGINNING = In the Beginning ELOHIM

REVELATION is the END(COMPLETION)
And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb.
In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him. They shall see His face, and His name shall be on their foreheads. There shall be no night there: They need no lamp nor light of the sun, for the Lord God gives them light. And they shall reign forever and ever.

You're making too many theological assumptions again, i.e., the Bible doesn't what your commentary does on the points of "The WORD that was GOD left Heaven when HE entered into Mary's womb via the HOLY SPIRIT. Only the physical flesh body came into existence when the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary = Hebrews 10:5-7 and Luke 1:34-35"

Rather, what the Bible says regarding the Word is that it's a thing, the same thing as eternal life (1 John 1:1-3) and we know that eternal life is immortality, not a person. We also have no examples of the Word pre-existing as a person, but rather "The Word became flesh" which is in line with a creation, not an incarnation. The way to make sense of the rest of the Bible that contradicts your commentary is that John 1 has some translation and interpretation errors. Since we now know based on the testimony of Scripture that the Word is a thing, isn't actually God, isn't a pre-existing being, then your conclusions are not Biblical.

Also, I might add, you are placing too much of a heavy focus on logos theology. Everyone else just simply stated that Jesus is a human who came into the world, meaning that he was born, and others even only mentioned Jesus' human genealogy and didn't add anything to it. Everyone who wrote about him after he was taken to heaven kept right on referring to him as a human, a man who is a high priest and mediator between God and men, temporarily at the right hand of God until his reign ends (1 Corinthians 15)

 

[Capbook]

The Word was not God because if God became flesh, that isn't an incarnation, but rather a transformation from something into something else.

The Bible doesn't say "incarnation" but "became flesh," the bloodless Word though was God, emptied Himself the form of God and take the form of a servant in the likeness of man/flesh that had blood to shed for the hope of salvation to us all in faith.

Therefore, the flesh would be God, therefore the flesh is an idol, and it contradicts the Bible 7 ways to Sunday. Test your theories against sound reasoning before jumping to inappropriate conclusions.

Was the disciples that worship Jesus commit idolatry? (Mat 28:17)
Was all the creation in heaven and on earth, etc., and the elders commit idolatry when they worshiped the Father and Jesus?
I might say, test your theories, and answer with Bible verses not just own private interpretation.

Rev 5:13 And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying, "To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever."
Rev 5:14 And the four living creatures kept saying, "Amen." And the elders fell down and worshiped.

Consult your lexicon on what the word "became" means and read more of the context of John 1. Plainly, Jesus was created, which is stated elsewhere in the Bible (Colossians 1:15, Revelation 3:14)

The word "became" with Strong#G1096, in Greek "γίνομαι ginomai" Bible Lexicons defined it as means - to come, to acquire or experience a state, to become, the Word became a human being' or 'the Word became a person' John 1:14, come into existence, begin to be, to become and etc.

Through Bible lexicons definitions it means that the Word became human being or person, to become flesh, to come into existence as flesh, begin to be flesh and etc., and no definition as being created.

Joh 1:14 And R1the WordG3056 R2becameG1096 fleshG4561, and N1 R3dweltG4637 amongG1722 us, and R4we sawG2300 His gloryG1391, gloryG1391 as of N2the onlyG3439 begottenG3439 from the FatherG3962, fullG4134 of R5graceG5485 and R6truthG225.

NT:1096 (Louw and Nida Greek-English Lexicon)
γίνομαι ginomai
to come, to acquire or experience a state, to become, the Word became a human being' or 'the Word became a person' John 1:14;
(from Greek-English Lexicon Based on Semantic Domain. Copyright © 1988 United Bible Societies, New York. Used by permission.)

G1096 (Thayer)
γίνομαι ginomai
1) to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being
2) to become, i.e. to come to pass, happen
2a) of events
3) to arise, appear in history, come upon the stage
3a) of men appearing in public
4) to be made, finished
4a) of miracles, to be performed, wrought
5) to become, be made

G1096 (TDNT)
γίνομαι ginomai
It means in the literal sense become, originate, come into existence.
(from Exegetical Dictionary of the New Testament © 1990 by William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company. All rights reserved.)

And consult your lexicon about John 1:15 regarding "he existed before me." The Greek word prótos means principal, most important which means John 1:15 be can be translated as "he is more important than me" which makes sense since Jesus didn't pre-exist and John was older than Jesus, but not as important as Jesus.

The word "before" with Strong#G4413, in Greek "πρῶτος prōtos" defined by various Bible Lexicons as means - pertaining to a point of time earlier in a sequence, etc.

Thus, as the Word became human named Jesus, Who is Jesus before He became human?
A very simple logic, He existed as the Word that was God in the beginning, through the Word all things were created, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

John 1:15 JohnG2491 *R1testifiedG3140 aboutG4012 Him and criedG2896 out, sayingG3004, "ThisG3778 was He of whomG3739 I saidG3004, 'R2He who comesG2064 afterG3694 me N1hasG1096 a higherG1715 rankG1715 than I, R3for He existedG1510 beforeG4413 me.'"

G4413 (Louw and Nida Greek-English Lexicon)
πρῶτος prōtos
pertaining to a point of time earlier in a sequence - 'before, former, formerly.
(from Greek-English Lexicon Based on Semantic Domain. Copyright © 1988 United Bible Societies, New York. Used by permission.)

G4413 (TDNT)
πρῶτος prōtos
More common is the meaning "first" in time, number, or sequence
(from Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, abridged edition, Copyright © 1985 by William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company. All rights reserved.)

G4413 (Vine's)
πρῶτος prōtos
denotes "the first," whether in time or place.
(from Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words, Copyright © 1985, Thomas Nelson Publishers.)

G4413 (Thayer)
πρῶτος prōtos
1) first in time or place
1a) in any succession of things or persons
2) first in rank
2a) influence, honour
2b) chief
2c) principal
3) first, at the first