The Bible does not teach to pray to Jesus

[Runningman]

Good... So do I.

Now waiting til the next time someone posts against praying to Jesus so I can drop these plus more in a reply

Philippians 2:9-11
Therefore God exalted Him to the highest place and gave Him the name above all names, / that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, / and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Isaiah 45:23
By Myself I have sworn; truth has gone out from My mouth, a word that will not be revoked: Every knee will bow before Me, every tongue will swear allegiance.

Romans 14:11
It is written: “As surely as I live, says the Lord, every knee will bow before Me; every tongue will confess to God.”

Hebrews 1:6
And again, when God brings His firstborn into the world, He says: “Let all God’s angels worship Him.”

John 5:22-23
Furthermore, the Father judges no one, but has assigned all judgment to the Son, / so that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

John 5:22-23
Furthermore, the Father judges no one, but has assigned all judgment to the Son, / so that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

Psalm 95:6
O come, let us worship and bow down; let us kneel before the LORD our Maker.

That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

Isaiah 45:23-25
I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear…

This is the only teaching about how to pray in the Bible. It's about praying to God, not praying to Jesus.

Matthew 6
6But when you pray, go into your inner room, shut your door, and pray to your Father, who is unseen. And your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

9So then, this is how you should pray:
‘Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be Your name.

 

[synergy]

No. The Bible doesn't tell you God is more than one person.

Wrong. John 1:1 dictates to whoever can read English that there is more than 1 Person.

John 17:3 tells you God is one person, known as the Father.

Wrong again. Rev 17:3 says that the Father is the only true God, and so is the Son as well as the Holy Spirit. They are the one true God.

YHWH is singular and refers to the Father. Jesus is never called YHWH in the Bible.

Wrong again. YHWH was translated into kurios (Septuagint) which was then translated to Lord in English Bibles. The name Lord is ascribed to both the Father and the Son which means they are both YHWH.

 

[civic]

Clearly the bible teaches Prayers to Jesus


Prayers to Jesus

John 14:13–14
13 And whatever you ask in my name, I will do this, in order that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it.
Acts 7:59–60
59 And they kept on stoning Stephen as he was calling out and saying, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!” 60 And falling to his knees, he cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them!” And after he said this, he fell asleep.
1 Corinthians 1:2
to the church of God sanctified in Christ Jesus that is in Corinth, called to be saints, together with all those who call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ in every place, their Lord and ours.
2 Corinthians 12:8
Three times I appealed to the Lord about this, that it would depart from me.
Acts 8:24
But Simon answered and said, “You pray to the Lord for me so that nothing of what you have said will come upon me.”
1 John 5:14
And this is the confidence that we have before him: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.
1 John 5:15
And if we know that he hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests that we have asked from him.
Acts 9:14
and here he has authority from the chief priests to tie up all who call upon your name!”
2 Timothy 2:22
But flee from youthful desires, and pursue righteousness, faith, love, and peace, in company with those who call upon the Lord from a pure heart.
Romans 10:13
For “everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved.”
Acts 9:14
and here he has authority from the chief priests to tie up all who call upon your name!”
2 Timothy 2:22
But flee from youthful desires, and pursue righteousness, faith, love, and peace, in company with those who call upon the Lord from a pure heart.


Exported from Logos Bible Study, 10:24 AM February 27, 2025.


It also teaches we should honor Jesus as we honor the Father

John 5:23 (LEB) — 23 in order that all people will honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. The one who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.

Prayer is one way we honor the Father

Another way is honoring Jesus as we honor the Father

The idea the bible does not support prayer to Jesus is biblically false

Yes indeed it does brother !!!!!

 

[civic]

Wrong. John 1:1 dictates to whoever can read English that there is more than 1 Person.

Wrong again. Rev 17:3 says that the Father is the only true God, and so is the Son as well as the Holy Spirit. They are the one true God.

Wrong again. YHWH was translated into kurios (Septuagint) which was then translated to Lord in English Bibles. The name Lord is ascribed to both the Father and the Son which means they are both YHWH.

Amen !!!!

 

[Runningman]

Wrong. John 1:1 dictates to whoever can read English that there is more than 1 Person.

1 John 1:1-3 says the Word is a thing. You're going about it backwards.

Wrong again. Rev 17:3 says that the Father is the only true God, and so is the Son as well as the Holy Spirit. They are the one true God.

The statement "You, the only true God," is directly only at the Father.

Wrong again. YHWH was translated into kurios (Septuagint) which was then translated to Lord in English Bibles. The name Lord is ascribed to both the Father and the Son which means they are both YHWH.

This is a nonsense argument. Kurios applies to humans in the Bible as well. Elohim can refer to humans as well. Did you already forget that?

 

[DavidTree]

Amen !!!!

@synergy says: YHWH was translated into kurios (Septuagint) which was then translated to Lord in English Bibles. The name Lord is ascribed to both the Father and the Son which means they are both YHWH.

Attention @Runningman @Pancho Frijoles

This is the truth that most do not see/know.

The Apostles, who were devout Jews to the OT law, knew what it meant to call Jesus - Lord.

The Apostle John KNEW, beyond any doubt, exactly who Jesus was BEFORE HE came to earth.

Therefore, any and all who speak against CHRIST speak against His FATHER who is GOD and therefore FORFEIT eternal life.

"And I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you.
Holy FATHER, keep them in your name, which you have given ME, that they may be one, even as we are one." - John 17:11

 

[Runningman]

Attention @Runningman @Pancho Frijoles

This is the truth that most do not see/know.

The Apostles, who were devout Jews to the OT law, knew what it meant to call Jesus - Lord.

The Apostle John KNEW, beyond any doubt, exactly who Jesus was BEFORE HE came to earth.

Therefore, any and all who speak against CHRIST speak against His FATHER who is GOD and therefore FORFEIT eternal life.

"And I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you.
Holy FATHER, keep them in your name, which you have given ME, that they may be one, even as we are one." - John 17:11

David, read this now.

Lord basically translates to master. There are many human lords in the Bible. It's a weak argument that if someone is called lord then it would imply they are God, which would not only be a big leap, but blasphemy. Futhermore, did you know that Jesus was turned into a lord?

Read Acts 2:36. God made Jesus both Lord and Christ. That word "made" there means manufactured or constructed.

 

[synergy]

1 John 1:1-3 says the Word is a thing. You're going about it backwards.

Since when is a "He" or "Him" a thing???? You need to go back to elementary school and brush up on your personal pronouns.

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.

The statement "You, the only true God," is directly only at the Father.

That does not nullify the fact that John 1:1 exists also.

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

This is a nonsense argument. Kurios applies to humans in the Bible as well. Elohim can refer to humans as well. Did you already forget that?

Give me one example where anyone was called Lord ("Kurios") besides Jesus or the Father by any of the Disciples.

 

[Runningman]

Since when is a "He" or "Him" a thing???? You need to go back to elementary school and brush up on your personal pronouns.

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.

I'll post the KJV, but all of the versions, even the modern ones, call the Word of life a thing. It's because the Word isn't God. When you come across exceptions in the Bible, it's good to take a closer look options you have not considered or translation issues. John 1 provides cluses that the Word isn't God.

1 John 1 KJV
1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 2(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us 3That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

That does not nullify the fact that John 1:1 exists also.

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Give me one example where anyone was called Lord ("Kurios") besides Jesus or the Father by any of the Disciples.

There's at least a dozen examples of regular earthly masters being called kurious. It isn't exclusive to God or Jesus.

Matthew 10
24The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord. 25It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?

Ephesians 6
5Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;

Colossians 3
22Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God:

 

[synergy]

I'll post the KJV, but all of the versions, even the modern ones, call the Word of life a thing. It's because the Word isn't God. When you come across exceptions in the Bible, it's good to take a closer look options you have not considered or translation issues. John 1 provides cluses that the Word isn't God.

1 John 1 KJV
1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 2(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us 3That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

Where in the world did you get those verses from? Every website and software (e-sword) I go to has the following verses for KJV:

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

If that's not enough for you we can go into the Greek which totally obliterates the unitarian attempt to depersonalize Jesus.

There's at least a dozen examples of regular earthly masters being called kurious. It isn't exclusive to God or Jesus.

Matthew 10
24The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord. 25It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?

Ephesians 6
5Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;

Colossians 3
22Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God:

Notice the phrase "according to the flesh". Interesting isn't it? Was Jesus ever called Lord "according to the flesh"? Why not? Because Jesus is Lord according to the Spirit just as the Father is.

Keep those Trinitarian verses coming!

 

[mikesw]

Where in the world did you get those verses from? Every website and software (e-sword) I go to has the following verses for KJV:

Not the gospel John but the first John letter --1 John 1 KJV

This commentary points out that 1 John 1 is emphasizing the concept of life rather than the identity of Jesus.

it is plain from the parenthesis which immediately follows the use of this expression (v. 2) that the emphasis in it in the author’s mind is not on ‘Word’ but on ‘life’, for the word logos is not used in the preface, or indeed in the whole letter, whereas ‘life’ is repeated twice in verse 2 and five times more in the rest of the letter (2:25; 3:14; 5:11–12, 20). It is significant that what the author writes is not ‘concerning the Word of life—the word became flesh’ but ‘concerning the Word of life—the life appeared’ John R. W. Stott, The Letters of John: An Introduction and Commentary, vol. 19, InterVarsity Press, 1988, 71.

The passage may parallel and complement John 1 but the purpose and message is different. This hardly functions as a statement against the divinity of Christ Jesus in the Godhead.

 

[synergy]

Not the gospel John but the first John letter --1 John 1 KJV

Thanks for the heads up. Again, @Runningman chooses to run away from the verses that destroy unitarianism (John 1) in the hopes that he will find others that might support his heresy. He did name himself perfectly with what he consistently does.

 

[synergy]

I'll post the KJV, but all of the versions, even the modern ones, call the Word of life a thing. It's because the Word isn't God. When you come across exceptions in the Bible, it's good to take a closer look options you have not considered or translation issues. John 1 provides cluses that the Word isn't God.

1 John 1 KJV
1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; 2(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us 3That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

To show that Trinitarians do not run away from anything, here is how 1 John 1:1 supports the Trinitarian view that the Word of God is a Person and not a thing:

Let's start by looking at the Greek version of 1 John 1:1. In particular, lets look at the first 2 Greek words ῞Ο ἦν that you claim refer to a “thing”.

1Jn 1:1 ῞Ο ἦν ἀπ᾿ ἀρχῆς, ὃ ἀκηκόαμεν, ὃ ἑωράκαμεν τοῖς ὀφθαλμοῖς ἡμῶν, ὃ ἐθεασάμεθα καὶ αἱ χεῖρες ἡμῶν ἐψηλάφησαν, περὶ τοῦ λόγου τῆς ζωῆς·

The phrase “ὁ ἦν” is found in multiple other locations (see below) and never once is it considered a neuter pronoun:

Rev_1:4 ᾿Ιωάννης ταῖς ἑπτὰ ἐκκλησίαις ταῖς ἐν τῇ ᾿Ασίᾳ· χάρις ὑμῖν καὶ εἰρήνη ἀπὸ ὁ ὢν καὶ ὁ ἦν καὶ ὁ ἐρχόμενος, καὶ ἀπὸ τῶν ἑπτὰ πνευμάτων, ἃ ἐνώπιον τοῦ θρόνου αὐτοῦ,
Rev_1:8 ᾿Εγώ εἰμι τὸ Α καὶ τὸ Ω, λέγει Κύριος ὁ Θεός, ὁ ὢν καὶ ὁ ἦν καὶ ὁ ἐρχόμενος, ὁ παντοκράτωρ.
Rev_4:8 καὶ τὰ τέσσαρα ζῷα, ἓν καθ᾿ ἓν αὐτῶν ἔχων ἀνὰ πτέρυγας ἕξ, κυκλόθεν καὶ ἔσωθεν γέμουσιν ὀφθαλμῶν, καὶ ἀνάπαυσιν οὐκ ἔχουσιν ἡμέρας καὶ νυκτὸς λέγοντες· ἅγιος, ἅγιος, ἅγιος Κύριος ὁ Θεὸς ὁ παντοκράτωρ, ὁ ἦν καὶ ὁ ὢν καὶ ὁ ἐρχόμενος.
Rev_11:17 λέγοντες· εὐχαριστοῦμέν σοι, Κύριε ὁ Θεὸς ὁ παντοκράτωρ, ὁ ὢν καὶ ὁ ἦν καὶ ὁ ἐρχόμενος, ὅτι εἴληφας τὴν δύναμίν σου τὴν μεγάλην καὶ ἐβασίλευσας,
Rev_16:5 καὶ ἤκουσα τοῦ ἀγγέλου τῶν ὑδάτων λέγοντος· δίκαιος εἶ, ὁ ὢν καὶ ὁ ἦν, ὁ ὅσιος, ὅτι ταῦτα ἔκρινας·

Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia. Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is coming; and from the seven spirits which are before His throne;
Rev 1:8 I am the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the Ending, says the Lord, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.
Rev 4:8 And each one of the four living creatures had six wings about him, and within being full of eyes. And they had no rest day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God, the Almighty, who was and is and is to come.
Rev 11:17 saying, We thank You, O Lord God Almighty, who are, and who was, and who is coming, because You took Your great power and reigned.
Rev 16:15 Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is the one who watches and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.

Listen, John’s understanding of The Word didn’t go from being a Person (ουτος in John 1:2) to a “thing”. Such an outlandish view can only come from a Judaizing Unitarian that has a dirt poor understanding of Greek.

 

[mikesw]

Thanks for the heads up. Again, @Runningman chooses to run away from the verses that destroy unitarianism (John 1) in the hopes that he will find others that might support his heresy. He did name himself perfectly with what he consistently does.

This other commentary still identifies the word of life with Jesus incarnate. Either way, there is hardly cause to dissociate the word of life from Christ.

Second, the ‘Word of life’ is described as that which we have heard. It is sometimes suggested that this does not imply a firsthand hearing of Jesus’ preaching by the author, but only a hearing of the message of Jesus handed down by others. Taken on its own, ‘we have heard’ could mean this. However, the immediate context of the expression in 1:1 makes it clear that an actual firsthand hearing of the proclamation of Jesus is implied.
Colin G. Kruse, The Letters of John, The Pillar New Testament Commentary,Apollos, 2000, 52.

I think there is a lot more interesting stuff here -- like seeing the word of life with his eyes. I just am not ready to investigate further.

 

[Runningman]

Where in the world did you get those verses from? Every website and software (e-sword) I go to has the following verses for KJV:

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

If that's not enough for you we can go into the Greek which totally obliterates the unitarian attempt to depersonalize Jesus.

Notice the phrase "according to the flesh". Interesting isn't it? Was Jesus ever called Lord "according to the flesh"? Why not? Because Jesus is Lord according to the Spirit just as the Father is.

Keep those Trinitarian verses coming!

Blah blah blah. Your "Jesus is God because he's kurious" argument was shot down and crashed and burned. Don't use that argument again.

 

[Runningman]

To show that Trinitarians do not run away from anything, here is how 1 John 1:1 supports the Trinitarian view that the Word of God is a Person and not a thing:

Let's start by looking at the Greek version of 1 John 1:1. In particular, lets look at the first 2 Greek words ῞Ο ἦν that you claim refer to a “thing”.

1Jn 1:1 ῞Ο ἦν ἀπ᾿ ἀρχῆς, ὃ ἀκηκόαμεν, ὃ ἑωράκαμεν τοῖς ὀφθαλμοῖς ἡμῶν, ὃ ἐθεασάμεθα καὶ αἱ χεῖρες ἡμῶν ἐψηλάφησαν, περὶ τοῦ λόγου τῆς ζωῆς·

The phrase “ὁ ἦν” is found in multiple other locations (see below) and never once is it considered a neuter pronoun:

Rev_1:4 ᾿Ιωάννης ταῖς ἑπτὰ ἐκκλησίαις ταῖς ἐν τῇ ᾿Ασίᾳ· χάρις ὑμῖν καὶ εἰρήνη ἀπὸ ὁ ὢν καὶ ὁ ἦν καὶ ὁ ἐρχόμενος, καὶ ἀπὸ τῶν ἑπτὰ πνευμάτων, ἃ ἐνώπιον τοῦ θρόνου αὐτοῦ,
Rev_1:8 ᾿Εγώ εἰμι τὸ Α καὶ τὸ Ω, λέγει Κύριος ὁ Θεός, ὁ ὢν καὶ ὁ ἦν καὶ ὁ ἐρχόμενος, ὁ παντοκράτωρ.
Rev_4:8 καὶ τὰ τέσσαρα ζῷα, ἓν καθ᾿ ἓν αὐτῶν ἔχων ἀνὰ πτέρυγας ἕξ, κυκλόθεν καὶ ἔσωθεν γέμουσιν ὀφθαλμῶν, καὶ ἀνάπαυσιν οὐκ ἔχουσιν ἡμέρας καὶ νυκτὸς λέγοντες· ἅγιος, ἅγιος, ἅγιος Κύριος ὁ Θεὸς ὁ παντοκράτωρ, ὁ ἦν καὶ ὁ ὢν καὶ ὁ ἐρχόμενος.
Rev_11:17 λέγοντες· εὐχαριστοῦμέν σοι, Κύριε ὁ Θεὸς ὁ παντοκράτωρ, ὁ ὢν καὶ ὁ ἦν καὶ ὁ ἐρχόμενος, ὅτι εἴληφας τὴν δύναμίν σου τὴν μεγάλην καὶ ἐβασίλευσας,
Rev_16:5 καὶ ἤκουσα τοῦ ἀγγέλου τῶν ὑδάτων λέγοντος· δίκαιος εἶ, ὁ ὢν καὶ ὁ ἦν, ὁ ὅσιος, ὅτι ταῦτα ἔκρινας·

Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia. Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is coming; and from the seven spirits which are before His throne;
Rev 1:8 I am the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the Ending, says the Lord, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.
Rev 4:8 And each one of the four living creatures had six wings about him, and within being full of eyes. And they had no rest day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God, the Almighty, who was and is and is to come.
Rev 11:17 saying, We thank You, O Lord God Almighty, who are, and who was, and who is coming, because You took Your great power and reigned.
Rev 16:15 Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is the one who watches and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.

Listen, John’s understanding of The Word didn’t go from being a Person (ουτος in John 1:2) to a “thing”. Such an outlandish view can only come from a Judaizing Unitarian that has a dirt poor understanding of Greek.

So you lost your kurious argument, but that isn't enough. I need to root you out of every hole of heresy you've nested in until you have no where else to go? Is it really going to take that?

 

[mikesw]

So you lost your kurious argument, but that isn't enough. I need to root you out of every hole of heresy you've nested in until you have no where else to go? Is it really going to take that?

Why do you keep on rejecting scripture? Is it because you had an encounter with what you thought was God so you hold that as more important than scripture? Maybe you can describe why that supposed vision or encounter is so persuasive.

 

[synergy]

Blah blah blah.

So that's your counterargument against Jesus being kurios not according to the flesh.

Your "Jesus is God because he's kurious" argument was shot down and crashed and burned. Don't use that argument again.

I've refined my argument thanks to you. You are a great help in helping me to pinpoint exactly the difference between how the Apostles used the word kurios for Jesus & the Father and how they used the same word for everyone else. You've helped many times before in other occasions such as Rev 3:21. I can't thank you enough.

 

[TomL]

Yes indeed it does brother !!!!!

That poster is just ignoring the evidence.

 

[TomL]

So that's your counterargument against Jesus being kurios not according to the flesh.

I've refined my argument thanks to you. You are a great help in helping me to pinpoint exactly the difference between how the Apostles used the word kurios for Jesus & the Father and how they used the same word for everyone else. You've helped many times before in other occasions such as Rev 3:12. I can't thank you enough.

Yep

Mark 12:29 (LEB) — 29 Jesus answered, “The most important is, ‘Listen, Israel! The Lord our God, the Lord is one.

Lord here is kurios

Kurios substitutes for Jehovah of the Old Testament

Deu 6:4 "Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah.