Calvinism/Refromed Theology
I have and they don't.
And you would accuse another of being prideful. Amazing, simply amazing.
The 5 Articles of Remonstrance (Arminianism)
- Thread starter atpollard
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And you would accuse another of being prideful. Amazing, simply amazing.
I see. So that is why you are blind and have a hardness of heart. OK.
The evidence is your faulty reading of God's word.
Again, you need to look into the mirror when you make statements like that.
Evidence of what? That you are not a teacher? That is obvious
And you have given no evidence of what that statement by Jesus even means/
synergy
Active Member
Gentiles, who have never heard the Gospel, will be judged according to how closely they allowed themselves to be drawn to God according to their Good Works, the Law in their Hearts, their Conscience, their Heart, their Mindfulness, their Mercy, etc... according to each individual's specific case. The standard of God's judgment remains the Gospel (Cross, Resurrection, Ascension, etc...). Read Rom 2:12-16.
12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law
13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;
14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves,
15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)
16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.
atpollard
Active Member
You keep talking about how they will be JUDGED after they are dead.
I am asking you about Jesus’ promise to DRAW THEM TO HIMSELF while they are alive?
How are those that never hear the gospel “drawn to me (Jesus)”?
As Paul asks in Romans 10 …
- But how can they call on him to save them unless they believe in him?
- And how can they believe in him if they have never heard about him?
- And how can they hear about him unless someone tells them?
- And how will anyone go and tell them without being sent?
synergy
Active Member
Jesus is God. Do you believe that?
While alive, evidence of them being drawn to God is their Good Works, the Law in their Hearts, their Conscience, their Heart, their Mindfulness, their Mercy, etc..
That's a general question for all OT people, Jewish and Pagan. Jesus is God. He always has his abilities and ways throughout all times.
Now you're stepping into NT times where the Cross has made salvation possible for anyone who believes in Christ. Before the Cross, there was no salvation for anyone. Noone can be saved without the Cross. There is no other way.
Here is what Calvinists, Arminians and Traditionalists believe about Prevenient Grace:
Calvinism:
Fallen humanity lacks the capacity to positively respond to God’s appeals, and therefore God has predestined to unilaterally give an elect portion of humanity an ontological change in nature through pre-faith “Regeneration” or “New Birth” (i.e. being made “Born Again” in order to believe in the gospel) otherwise described as an “Irresistible Grace,” so that Calvinism’s elect are effectually made willing to compatibilistically receive the gospel message.
Arminianism (classical):
Fallen humanity lacks the capacity to positively respond to God’s appeals, and therefore God has predestined to unilaterally give all men an ontological change in nature through a pre-regenerating grace (or “Partial Regeneration”) constituting the Holy Spirit’s preceding work on the human heart of opening spiritual eyes (though which is not “Regeneration” or the “New birth” since that is reserved only for those who are converted “in Christ” as believers), otherwise known as a “Resistible Grace,” so that all men are effectually enabled with the power of contrary choice to autonomously either receive or reject the gospel message. [1]
Arminianism (modern):
Fallen humanity lacks the capacity to positively respond to God’s appeals, and therefore God has predestined to unilaterally help all men to believe the gospel (not “Partial Regeneration”) constituting the Holy Spirit’s preceding work of enlightening, convicting, drawing, and opening the heart (not “Regeneration” or the “New birth” since that is reserved only for those who are converted “in Christ” as believers), otherwise known as a “Resistible Grace,” so that all men are effectually enabled with the power of contrary choice to autonomously either receive or reject the gospel message. [2]
Traditionalism
Provisionism)Fallen humanity maintains the capacity to positively respond to the gospel, inclusive of the power of contrary choice to autonomously either receive or reject the gospel message, without any ontological change in nature (or “Partial Regeneration), in which the “Resistible Grace” of God presents itself in the form of the Holy Spirit goading and convicting man’s conscience through general revelation or the compelling message of the gospel. [3]
Dizerner
Active Member
For further distinguishing between the recently branded "Provisionism" and Classical Arminianism see here:
Dizerner
Active Member
This is incorrect, and this false myth continually perpetuated online needs to die.
“No one is pure from defilement, not even if his life were but for one day." — Epistle to the Corinthians, Clement, ~96 AD.
Last time I checked the first century is before the third. Clement was perhaps ordained by Peter himself.
And many years before Augustine, the doctrine of Original Sin was believed and described in full:
“Every soul, then, by reason of its birth, has its nature in Adam until it is born again in Christ; moreover, it is unclean all the while that it remains without this regeneration; and because unclean, it is actively sinful, and suffuses even the flesh (by reason of their conjunction) with its own shame.” — On the Soul, Tertullian,~210 AD
synergy
Active Member
If human nature is intrinsically sinful then what does that make Jesus who assumed the very same human nature we all possess?
So you hold to a partial regeneration of older Arminianism or non regenerative but resistible Holy Spirit grace?For further distinguishing between the recently branded "Provisionism" and Classical Arminianism see here:
Provisionism sees the power in the gospel or in the goading, convicting work of the Holy Spirit
John 16:7–15 (NASB95) — 7 “But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you. 8 “And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment; 9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me; 10 and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you no longer see Me; 11 and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged. 12 “I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 “But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. 14 “He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you. 15 “All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you.
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That is indeed problematic.
Hebrews 2:14–17 (LEB) — 14 Therefore, since the children share in blood and flesh, he also in like manner shared in these same things, in order that through death he could destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil, 15 and could set free these who through fear of death were subject to slavery throughout all their lives. 16 For surely he is not concerned with angels, but he is concerned with the descendants of Abraham. 17 Therefore he was obligated to be made like his brothers in all respects, in order that he could become a merciful and faithful high priest in the things relating to God, in order to make atonement for the sins of the people.
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