The 5 Articles of Remonstrance (Arminianism)

YOU HAVE ETERNAL LIFE

Eternal equals forever
Life equals you are no longer dead

Living forever is OSAS

It means just what Jesus said, you will never die

Thats OSAS

You hate Calvin, amen, but you hate the promise of God because you hate calvin or love catholicism. Thats dad
First let's correct some of your statements for those reading along:

1. I do not hate calvinists.
I hate calvinism because it changes the nature of our loving God.

2. I don't love the CC because I believe some of their doctrine is wrong.
I don't hate Cathoics either because some of them love our Lord,,,despite incorrect doctrine.


As to eternal life meaning forever....

I've posted a about 4 verses so far that support the teaching of the NT that we can FALL AWAY from our faith....
that we must endure till the end.

That doesn't sound like FOREVER to me...
It sounds like there are conditions to remaining saved.

Please post some verses that support the idea that we are saved forever because we walked down an
isle years ago and accepted Jesus as our Lord and Savior....
With NO OTHER CONDITIONS.....

I don't find this in the NT.
 
John said those born of God can not live a life of sin
So its a mute point
I agree. Those living a life of sin cannot be born again....
either BEFORE they became saved
or
AFTER they became saved.

Yes, but you still are unworthy of salvation
That's sad EG.
How am I unworthy of salvation if I'm doing the best I can to follow the will of the Father?
This is what Jesus said to do.

Then WHAT must I do to be saved?
Is there no hope?
We can”t. What part of that can you not understand

He who lives in sin has never seen or known God

God changes us, we are no longer dogs. We are new creatures.
Please post some scripture.
 
A prodigal,son is still a son

I was one for 5 years I left the church because the church failed me. I never thought god stopped loving me or was not his child. In fact his chastening and comming after me is why I came back
The PS took his inheritance and went to live with the pigs.
JESUS said He was found AGAIN.

What do you think Jesus meant?

Luke 15:24
24 for this
son of mine was dead and has come to life again; he was lost and has been found.' And they began to celebrate.

The son was alive.
Then he was DEAD.
Then he became alive AGAIN.


(Did you leave a/the church or did you leave God?)
 
In post 115 you stated this:
"hence by defenition. we are as guilty of adams sin as he was."
In other words we suffer the same penalty

Do you understand what it means in Adam all die. Why are we all spiritually dead in Adam?
OK. So we agree that we are no GUILTY of Adam's sin...
but we suffer the consequences of itl
Never said otherwise
Ok. But I'm saying we CAN know.
We are told to believe in Jesus for salvation....
How can a child believe in Jesus?
Some do, however, at very young ages.
Once again scripture is not clear so I can not answer so I will not respond to this line of reasoning anymore

We will find out when we get to heaven
Agreed. But if you state what HE believed....then you're stating what the CC beleives.
That's my only point.
I do not follow men

I believe in the trinity because the scripture reveals it. Just because the Catholic Church teaches it to does not mean I agree with them
EG....Reread my post regarding this.
I NEVER said baptizing a baby will save him.
I saw otherwise
I think we're getting off-track.

My believing childen don't go to hell if they die is nonsense?
I do believe I posted a couple of verses stating that we each are responsible for ONLY OUR SINS.
Maybe you haven't seen it yet.


ALL babies go to heaven.
You missed my piont.
No problem.

Seems very clear to me,
and I'll keep posting on this if you wish.
Again done with this topic we can not know what is truth so arguing is fruitless
 
In other words we suffer the same penalty

Do you understand what it means in Adam all die. Why are we all spiritually dead in Adam?

Never said otherwise
There's a difference between being GUILTY of Adam's sin
and suffering the penalty of it....as you stated above.

And I'm not replying to why we're all spiritually dead in Adam.
Hasn't this been covered already?

Theology 101 was many years ago.

Once again scripture is not clear so I can not answer so I will not respond to this line of reasoning anymore

We will find out when we get to heaven

I do not follow men

I believe in the trinity because the scripture reveals it. Just because the Catholic Church teaches it to does not mean I agree with them

I saw otherwise

Again done with this topic we can not know what is truth so arguing is fruitless
OK if you don't want to discuss,
but Jesus said the following:


Matthew 18:3
And said, “Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
Mark 10:13-14

13 And they were bringing children to Him so that He might touch them; but the disciples rebuked them.
14 But when Jesus saw this, He was indignant and said to them, "Permit the children to come to Me; do not hinder them; for the
kingdom of God belongs to such as these.
Mark 9:36-37
And he took a child and put him in the midst of them, and taking him in his arms, he said to them,
“Whoever receives one such child in my name receives me, and whoever receives me, receives not me but him who sent me.”



God loves little children.
Jesus is the true reflection of God.
We can trust what Jesus teaches.
 
What happens if we return to our own vomit?
Then we were still a dog. God never created us new in Christ Jesus
  • For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit”…


For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”
2 Peter 2:20-22
These people were never saved they are false teachers and prophets who’s destruction was foretold

Ready the passage slowly read Jude. Jude called them licentious

They had the truth in their hands and did
Not act on it. It will be worse for them
 
I NEVER said God will push a person away.
Jesus said He will not lose any.....
HE will not lose any.
Amen

OSAS 101. Basic truth
But we can fall away and abandon HIM...
WE abandon HIM...
No. You’re not stronger than God. You put to much focus on self
Hebrews 3:12-14 Paul (?) is speaking to BRETHREN
12 Take
care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God.
13 But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called "Today," so * that none * of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.
14 For we have
become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end,


A few IFs in scripture....


We need endurance....

Hebrews 10:35-36
35 Therefore, do not
throw away your confidence, which has a great reward.
36 For you
have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God, you may receive what was promised.


We need endurance.
to receive what was promised.
You put to much faith in self. My faith is in God. If I depended on self I would be miserable
 
First let's correct some of your statements for those reading along:

1. I do not hate calvinists.
I hate calvinism because it changes the nature of our loving God.

2. I don't love the CC because I believe some of their doctrine is wrong.
I don't hate Cathoics either because some of them love our Lord,,,despite incorrect doctrine.


As to eternal life meaning forever....

I've posted a about 4 verses so far that support the teaching of the NT that we can FALL AWAY from our faith....
that we must endure till the end.

That doesn't sound like FOREVER to me...
It sounds like there are conditions to remaining saved.

Please post some verses that support the idea that we are saved forever because we walked down an
isle years ago and accepted Jesus as our Lord and Savior....
With NO OTHER CONDITIONS.....

I don't find this in the NT.
She teaches conditional
Life

Let’s get it straight

Either God lied. Or the Bible is not trustworthy.
 
Amen

OSAS 101. Basic truth

No. You’re not stronger than God. You put to much focus on self
Every time Jesus taught something, it was for US.
Does obeying Jesus mean I'm putting focus on myself?
Or does it mean I'm trying to obey Him?

You put to much faith in self. My faith is in God. If I depended on self I would be miserable
If your faith is in God...
then you should believe what Jesus taught and follow it.

Proverbs 3:5-6
Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make straight your paths.
Psalm 37:4-6

Delight yourself in the Lord, and he will give you the desires of your heart. Commit your way to the Lord; trust in him, and he will act. He will bring forth your righteousness as the light, and your justice as the noonday.


Righteousness: To be right with God.
God expects us to be righteous.
 
She teaches conditional
Life

Let’s get it straight

Either God lied. Or the Bible is not trustworthy.
The bible is totally trustworthy.
Do we trust Jesus or not?
Jesus NEVER stated that we are to ONLY believe in Him and all will be OK.

Why would it have taken Him over 3 years to teach this to the Apostles so they could pass it on?

And,,,,anyway,,,,BELIEVE in the original Greek means to believe in such a way as to take action.
Our faith moves us into action...

or it's a dead faith.
 
These people were never saved they are false teachers and prophets who’s destruction was foretold

Ready the passage slowly read Jude. Jude called them licentious

They had the truth in their hands and did
Not act on it. It will be worse for them

For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”
2 Peter 2:20-22


  • after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome


The words are unmistakable and irrefutable.
 
Sorry but that is a proverb, referring to a person who is set free and saved, then returns to the world from which they were redeemed.

This includes most of the Church.
Um No

that is paul trying to describe people who are false teachers and prophets..

Like a dog they return to their vomit. because they are still a dog..

or a swine, who you clean up. and no matter how clean you mnake them. the second they get to that mud hole. they wallow in their mier again

it is who they are by nature..

A dog eats vomit, and a swine wallows in mire.
 
For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”
2 Peter 2:20-22


  • after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome


The words are unmistakable and irrefutable.
It says they had knowledge of the word. that could save them

it does not say they were saved by those words.

again read.

But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”
2 peter 2:
12 But these, like natural brute beasts made to be caught and destroyed, speak evil of the things they do not understand, and will utterly perish in their own corruption, 13 and will receive the wages of unrighteousness, as those who count it pleasure to carouse in the daytime. They are spots and blemishes, carousing in their own deceptions while they feast with you, 14 having eyes full of adultery and that cannot cease from sin, enticing unstable souls. They have a heart trained in covetous practices, and are accursed children. 15 They have forsaken the right way and gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; 16 but he was rebuked for his iniquity: a dumb donkey speaking with a man’s voice restrained the madness of the prophet.

17 These are wells without water, clouds carried by a tempest, for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.



Jude: 4 For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.

5 But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. 6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; 7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

8 Likewise also these dreamers defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak evil of [dignitaries. 9 Yet Michael the archangel, in [contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” 10 But
these speak evil of whatever they do not know; and whatever they know naturally, like brute beasts, in these things they corrupt themselves. 11 Woe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain, have run greedily in the error of Balaam for profit, and perished in the rebellion of Korah.

These are the same people. Both peter and Jude say their condemnation was fortold and always in view., these were not saved people who were deceived. These people knew what they were doing. So it will be worse for them then the rest. If would be better if they had not KNOWN the way..
 
The bible is totally trustworthy.
Do we trust Jesus or not?
Jesus NEVER stated that we are to ONLY believe in Him and all will be OK.
He never stated we could save ourselves. He came so he could save us.

Why would it have taken Him over 3 years to teach this to the Apostles so they could pass it on?
Teaching salvation. and teaching christian growth are two things.

the problem with most of the church. is they do not understand this, they instead try to add we must be sanctified or our justification will not happen.
And,,,,anyway,,,,BELIEVE in the original Greek means to believe in such a way as to take action.
Our faith moves us into action...
Yes.

But action does not saved, it happens because we are saved,.

If actions could save you. Christ came in vein.
or it's a dead faith.
a dead faith does not saved. never has never will

I can claim I have faith until I am blue in the faith. if my faith is not real. I will not be saved.

How can I test my faith? Do I have works. or do I hear only and not do.

I am not lost because I did not do works. I am lost because I did not have real faith

I am not saved because I do works. I am saved because I have real saving faith.

at that moment, I have Gods promise I will never perish, I will live forever. I have eternal life. I have passed from death to life. I will not be judged. and I will be raised on the last day.

Now of non of these things are true. or they are only true if I live a certain way or do some good works.. Then God lied.
 
Um No

that is paul trying to describe people who are false teachers and prophets..

Like a dog they return to their vomit. because they are still a dog..

Wrong. Read what is written. All you seem to be focused on is dog.


  • after they have escaped the pollutions of the world
  • they are again entangled in them and overcome,
  • For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it



For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 2 Peter 2:20-21

These people were saved, then they became false teachers, kinda like today people who peddle the OSAS false doctrine of TULIP.
 
It says they had knowledge of the word. that could save them

it does not say they were saved by those words.

again read.

But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”
2 peter 2:
12 But these, like natural brute beasts made to be caught and destroyed, speak evil of the things they do not understand, and will utterly perish in their own corruption, 13 and will receive the wages of unrighteousness, as those who count it pleasure to carouse in the daytime. They are spots and blemishes, carousing in their own deceptions while they feast with you, 14 having eyes full of adultery and that cannot cease from sin, enticing unstable souls. They have a heart trained in covetous practices, and are accursed children. 15 They have forsaken the right way and gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; 16 but he was rebuked for his iniquity: a dumb donkey speaking with a man’s voice restrained the madness of the prophet.

17 These are wells without water, clouds carried by a tempest, for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.



Jude: 4 For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.

5 But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe. 6 And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day; 7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

8 Likewise also these dreamers defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak evil of [dignitaries. 9 Yet Michael the archangel, in [contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” 10 But
these speak evil of whatever they do not know; and whatever they know naturally, like brute beasts, in these things they corrupt themselves. 11 Woe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain, have run greedily in the error of Balaam for profit, and perished in the rebellion of Korah.

These are the same people. Both peter and Jude say their condemnation was fortold and always in view., these were not saved people who were deceived. These people knew what they were doing. So it will be worse for them then the rest. If would be better if they had not KNOWN the way..


Look at the context of this narrative and where it starts.


  • if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell


For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly;
2 Peter 2:4-5


Do you understand the point Peter is making here?


Do you understand that angels are called sons of God?


Do you understand what these angels were dining during the days of Noah, that got them cast down to hell?
 
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