The 5 Articles of Remonstrance (Arminianism)

[civic]

Weak sauce.

And of course you reject any Scriptures showing you are a sinner by nature, just out of hand, which is a double standard.

"When Augustine agrees with me, it's Bible; when he doesn't, it's Manichaean."

Yeah, that's not even honest.

In Johns writing we read the following regarding Jesus. He was in the beginning with God(John 1:1,1 John 1:1-4) We also read that in Him was life, the very source of life (John 1:4)whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life(3:16) He who believes in the Son has eternal life(3:36) He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day(6:54)This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent(17:3)These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life(1 John 5:13).

Jesus is in fact Eternal Life. He who has the Son has the life and he who does not have the Son does not have the life. He is the true God and Eternal Life(1 John 1:1-4,5:20).

Eternal life is not just unending life. It is the life we now have in God through Jesus. John refers to Jesus Christ Himself as eternal life. It is life that comes from God. A person who has eternal life has God’s life within him.

It is obvious that eternal life doesn’t begin when we die. Jesus said, He who believes in Me has (present tense) everlasting life. He didn’t say that the one who believes in Him will have (future tense) everlasting life. He said that he has eternal life in the here and now from that very first moment of faith. Eternal life is unending life.

Jesus, Paul and John emphasize that eternal life is a present reality and the present possession of the Christian in the here and now. It will have its ultimate fulfillment in the future but every believer has eternal life at the moment they believe in the Son of God.

Jesus said I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. (John 10:28).That means nothing or no one can remove a believer from Christ.

Paul tells us in Ephesians 4:30 that believers are sealed for the day of redemption. If believers did not have salvation or eternal life/security then the sealing could not truly be until the day of redemption. Paul in Romans 8:38-39 really drives home the everlasting promise of eternal life/salvation for the believer "For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Our eternal security is bought with the blood of Christ, promised to us by the Father Who cannot deny Himself and sealed in the believers heart by the Holy Spirit. What wonderful promises believers have for their eternal security in Christ.

Jesus tells us in John 3:15-16 that whoever believes in Jesus Christ will have eternal life, not might have but actually possesses that everlasting life. If a person is promised eternal life and then to have it taken away then it was never eternal to begin with and it makes Jesus out to be a liar and the promises of God to be false. Below we see more promises the believer can count on for eternal life now and in the future. We can be confident in the promises of God.

John 3:16
16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:36
"He who believes in the Son has eternal life;

John 5:24
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:47
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

John 6:54
54 "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.

John 10:27-30
"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 "I and the Father are one."

Matt 25:46
"These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

1 John 3:14
We know that we have passed out of death into life,

1 John 5:13
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

hope this helps,

 

[GodsGrace]

Grieving the Holy Spirit happens when you sin, not losing salvation

Agreed.
My point was that we can be baptized.....
but we are still warned not to grieve the Holy Spirit.
If we live a life of sin...whenever that is...that is different than sinning
and we will risk our soul due to the teachings of Jesus.

In Ephesians 4:1-3 we are told to walk in a worthy manner....
honoring our call to be in Christ.

What if we don't?
1 John 3:9 states that we should not live in sin.

What if we do?

 

[GodsGrace]

In Johns writing we read the following regarding Jesus. He was in the beginning with God(John 1:1,1 John 1:1-4) We also read that in Him was life, the very source of life (John 1:4)whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life(3:16) He who believes in the Son has eternal life(3:36) He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day(6:54)This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent(17:3)These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life(1 John 5:13).

Jesus is in fact Eternal Life. He who has the Son has the life and he who does not have the Son does not have the life. He is the true God and Eternal Life(1 John 1:1-4,5:20).

Eternal life is not just unending life. It is the life we now have in God through Jesus. John refers to Jesus Christ Himself as eternal life. It is life that comes from God. A person who has eternal life has God’s life within him.

It is obvious that eternal life doesn’t begin when we die. Jesus said, He who believes in Me has (present tense) everlasting life. He didn’t say that the one who believes in Him will have (future tense) everlasting life. He said that he has eternal life in the here and now from that very first moment of faith. Eternal life is unending life.

Jesus, Paul and John emphasize that eternal life is a present reality and the present possession of the Christian in the here and now. It will have its ultimate fulfillment in the future but every believer has eternal life at the moment they believe in the Son of God.

Jesus said I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. (John 10:28).That means nothing or no one can remove a believer from Christ.

Paul tells us in Ephesians 4:30 that believers are sealed for the day of redemption. If believers did not have salvation or eternal life/security then the sealing could not truly be until the day of redemption. Paul in Romans 8:38-39 really drives home the everlasting promise of eternal life/salvation for the believer "For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Our eternal security is bought with the blood of Christ, promised to us by the Father Who cannot deny Himself and sealed in the believers heart by the Holy Spirit. What wonderful promises believers have for their eternal security in Christ.

Jesus tells us in John 3:15-16 that whoever believes in Jesus Christ will have eternal life, not might have but actually possesses that everlasting life. If a person is promised eternal life and then to have it taken away then it was never eternal to begin with and it makes Jesus out to be a liar and the promises of God to be false. Below we see more promises the believer can count on for eternal life now and in the future. We can be confident in the promises of God.

John 3:16
16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:36
"He who believes in the Son has eternal life;

John 5:24
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:47
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

John 6:54
54 "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.

John 10:27-30
"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 "I and the Father are one."

Matt 25:46
"These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

1 John 3:14
We know that we have passed out of death into life,

1 John 5:13
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

hope this helps,

You post the above but without replying to my post to you....
have you noticed that BELIEVE is in the present tense?

Have you noticed that the sheep are following Jesus?

Do you wonder what makes us righteous?
Is it BELIEVING Jesus?

What does BELEIVE mean in Koine Greek?

And how do you explain verses such as the following:


Colossians 1:21-23
21 And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds,
22 yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach -
23 if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.


Paul states that we must continue in the faith and not be moved away.

 

[civic]

You post the above but without replying to my post to you....
have you noticed that BELIEVE is in the present tense?

Have you noticed that the sheep are following Jesus?

Do you wonder what makes us righteous?
Is it BELIEVING Jesus?

What does BELEIVE mean in Koine Greek?

And how do you explain verses such as the following:


Colossians 1:21-23
21 And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds,
22 yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach -
23 if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.


Paul states that we must continue in the faith and not be moved away.

I have never stopped believing since I was born again in 1980 and never will. My relationship with Jesus is forever, it’s ongoing daily always has been always will. I will never stop loving and living for Him. He is my Master, Lord, Savior and my daily trust is always in Him. I wake up thinking about Him everyday of my life , throughout my day and when I lay down at night. My relationship has only grown and gotten better/deeper over the decades. That will never stop or cease to be. I cannot not think about Him. His love constrains my life, motivates me daily , is the reason I find joy, peace, love etc…. I can say as Paul did for me to live is Christ and to die is gain. In Him I live, move and have my being , my identity.

Everyone who knows me personally will tell you the same things about me.

hope this helps !!!

 

[GodsGrace]

I have never stopped believing since I was born again in 1980 and never will. My relationship with Jesus is forever, it’s ongoing daily always has been always will. I will never stop loving and living for Him. He is my Master, Lord, Savior and my daily trust is always in Him. I wake up thinking about Him everyday of my life , throughout my day and when I lay down at night. My relationship has only grown and gotten better over the decades. That will never stop or cease to be. I cannot not think about Him. His love constrains my life, motivates me daily , is the reason I find joy, peace, love etc…. I can say as Paul did for me to live is Christ and to die is gain. In Him I live, move and have my being , my identity.

hope this helps !!!

This is wonderful Civic.
Unfortunately some do fall away.
Saying that they never believed just won't do.

Jesus said we could believe for a while.
Like 8:13
13 "Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.



Jesus said the Progial Son had become lost and came to life again:
Luke 15:24
24 for this son of mine was dead and has come to life again; he was lost and has been found.' And they began to celebrate.


Many verses on falling away.
Falling away from what?


Anyway,,,came by to shut down.
'night

 

[civic]

This is wonderful Civic.
Unfortunately some do fall away.
Saying that they never believed just won't do.

Jesus said we could believe for a while.
Like 8:13
13 "Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.



Jesus said the Progial Son had become lost and came to life again:
Luke 15:24
24 for this son of mine was dead and has come to life again; he was lost and has been found.' And they began to celebrate.


Many verses on falling away.
Falling away from what?


Anyway,,,came by to shut down.
'night

none of them state they were saved or had eternal life. you won't find that language in the N.T.

falling away like the Jews in the OT or judas in the N.T.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

You said that you believe that we are born GUILTY with Adam's sin.
You also said that babies go to hell...if I understood correctly.

Actually I said we suffer the penalty of adams sin

And I never said they go to hell, I said we can not know

What you have stated above is what Augustine of Hippo taught in the 5th century.
So, it's correct to say that you agree with Augustine.

I could care less what he taught. I care what the Bible teaches

Augustine did not inspire the words of God, I am sure we share a lot of beliefs with a lot of people it does not mean we follow the,

So if you believe babies go to hell,,,,
and
You do NOT believe that baptism saves anyone...
then your belief system is WORSE than that of the CC.
At least the CC teaches that if a baby is baptized he goes to heaven.

Sadly they are dead wrong

Sorry you believe in a works based gospel a parent baptizing a baby will not save that baby

The word is very clear.
Babies are NOT responsible for sin.
Children are not responsible for sin....
they don't know what sin is.

Jesus died for sin

No one will be condemned for sin

When you understand the cross. You will finally stop with this nonsense

I never add to the word of God.

You do it all the time. You just said baptized baby’s go to heaven

If Jesus paid for the debt of sin...
why didn't He pay it for some poor baby/child??

He did

I am sorry you do not understand Gods omniscience.

And I am sorry you do not understand the word is not clear on that matter

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Civic,
There are many verses in the NT that testify to the fact that a person can forfeit their salvation.

There is no verse

Is this going to be a OSAS thread?
If so....

Consider this:
When we became saved,,,did we lose our free will?
Is God going to finish what He started even if we don't want Him to?

Is it possible to fall away from our faith in God?

lol. I know I know. You think God can fail you and push you away

I am sorry

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

None of the above verses support OSAS.

But I don't understand why they're not getting printed??

After dinner if you care to continue...

YOU HAVE ETERNAL LIFE

Eternal equals forever
Life equals you are no longer dead

Living forever is OSAS

It means just what Jesus said, you will never die

Thats OSAS

You hate Calvin, amen, but you hate the promise of God because you hate calvin or love catholicism. Thats dad

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Weak sauce.

And of course you reject any Scriptures showing you are a sinner by nature, just out of hand, which is a double standard.

"When Augustine agrees with me, it's Bible; when he doesn't, it's Manichaean."

Yeah, that's not even honest.

Yes we are sinners by nature

Thats why we need grace

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Weak is right which is your argument that you are projecting.

Eternal Life- not called temporary life or conditional life for a reason.

I guess when the Bible says God is eternal He is not right ?

I guess when Jesus says the flames are eternal they are not right ?

I guess when the Bible says numerous times believed possess eternal life they don’t right ?

You make Gods promise of eternal life out to be a flat out lie.

Next fallacy

Never die, never perish, live forever, eternal life. Pass from death to life, not come into condemnation. He will raise you on last day

All promises of Jesus. I guess he can not be trusted. No wonder they think we can walk away

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Grieving the Holy Spirit happens when you sin, not losing salvation

Amen

Grieve hs. Which you were sealed until ressurection day.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Agreed.
My point was that we can be baptized.....
but we are still warned not to grieve the Holy Spirit.
If we live a life of sin...whenever that is...that is different than sinning
and we will risk our soul due to the teachings of Jesus.

John said those born of God can not live a life of sin
So its a mute point

In Ephesians 4:1-3 we are told to walk in a worthy manner....
honoring our call to be in Christ.

Yes, but you still are unworthy of salvation

What if we don't?
1 John 3:9 states that we should not live in sin.

What if we do?

We can”t. What part of that can you not understand

He who lives in sin has never seen or known God

God changes us, we are no longer dogs. We are new creatures.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

This is wonderful Civic.
Unfortunately some do fall away.
Saying that they never believed just won't do.

Jesus said we could believe for a while.
Like 8:13
13 "Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.



Jesus said the Progial Son had become lost and came to life again:
Luke 15:24
24 for this son of mine was dead and has come to life again; he was lost and has been found.' And they began to celebrate.


Many verses on falling away.
Falling away from what?


Anyway,,,came by to shut down.
'night

A prodigal,son is still a son

I was one for 5 years I left the church because the church failed me. I never thought god stopped loving me or was not his child. In fact his chastening and comming after me is why I came back

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

none of them state they were saved or had eternal life. you won't find that language in the N.T.

falling away like the Jews in the OT or judas in the N.T.

Amen. The had the truth in their grasp. And fell away

They had salvation in their grasp. And fell away

It’s like you fell off a cliff and holding on for dear life, and God comes to rescue you, his hand is held out. You consider grabbing it and letting him rescue you. But your pride is deep, in the end, you refuse to allow god to save you (free will) and you fall to your death (fall away)

 

[GodsGrace]

Actually I said we suffer the penalty of adams sin

In post 115 you stated this:
"hence by defenition. we are as guilty of adams sin as he was."

OK. So we agree that we are no GUILTY of Adam's sin...
but we suffer the consequences of itl

And I never said they go to hell, I said we can not know

Ok. But I'm saying we CAN know.
We are told to believe in Jesus for salvation....
How can a child believe in Jesus?
Some do, however, at very young ages.

I could care less what he taught. I care what the Bible teaches

Augustine did not inspire the words of God, I am sure we share a lot of beliefs with a lot of people it does not mean we follow the,

Agreed. But if you state what HE believed....then you're stating what the CC beleives.
That's my only point.

Sadly they are dead wrong

Sorry you believe in a works based gospel a parent baptizing a baby will not save that baby

EG....Reread my post regarding this.
I NEVER said baptizing a baby will save him.

I think we're getting off-track.

Jesus died for sin

No one will be condemned for sin

When you understand the cross. You will finally stop with this nonsense

My believing childen don't go to hell if they die is nonsense?
I do believe I posted a couple of verses stating that we each are responsible for ONLY OUR SINS.
Maybe you haven't seen it yet.

You do it all the time. You just said baptized baby’s go to heaven

ALL babies go to heaven.
You missed my piont.
No problem.

He did

I am sorry you do not understand Gods omniscience.

And I am sorry you do not understand the word is not clear on that matter

Seems very clear to me,
and I'll keep posting on this if you wish.

 

[JLB]

ALL babies go to heaven.

Amen. Baptized or not.

 

[JLB]

A prodigal,son is still a son

I was one for 5 years I left the church because the church failed me. I never thought god stopped loving me or was not his child. In fact his chastening and comming after me is why I came back

Amen. God is good.

He loves all of us.

 

[JLB]

We can”t. What part of that can you not understand

He who lives in sin has never seen or known God

God changes us, we are no longer dogs. We are new creatures.

What happens if we return to our own vomit?

• For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit”…

For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”
2 Peter 2:20-22

 

[GodsGrace]

There is no verse

lol. I know I know. You think God can fail you and push you away

I am sorry

I NEVER said God will push a person away.
Jesus said He will not lose any.....
HE will not lose any.

But we can fall away and abandon HIM...
WE abandon HIM...

Hebrews 3:12-14 Paul (?) is speaking to BRETHREN
12 Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God.
13 But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called "Today," so * that none * of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.
14 For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end,


A few IFs in scripture....


We need endurance....

Hebrews 10:35-36
35 Therefore, do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward.
36 For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God, you may receive what was promised.


We need endurance.
to receive what was promised.