Tensions in Calvin’s Idea of Predestination
- Thread starter FreeInChrist
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civic
Active Member
This Saturday and Monday I will see if it is ging to be a new trend or if it was a fluke lol.
Dont put to much pressure on yourself. I do that all the time.
civic
Active Member
Agreed my last round I was solo with no one in front or behind me. The most relaxed I have been on the course in years.
Thats the key. Play the course.
This is hyper Calvinist thought and a very narrowly held belief. It is plainly contrary to the choosing of men such as the apostles who would receive power when the Holy Spirit had come upon them and make them witnessesAny color changes are mine for emphasis.
Tensions in Calvin’s Idea of Predestination
A couple of weeks ago I had an opportunity of talking with a friend about the credibility of the Christian faith. When the conversation became somewhat personal, he bluntly said: ‘You don’t need to urge me to consider Christianity. I know there is a thing called ‘predestination’ in your...www.thegospelcoalition.org
ARTICLES
Volume 6 - Issue 1
Tensions in Calvin’s Idea of Predestination
By Wing-hung Lam
A couple of weeks ago I had an opportunity of talking with a friend about the credibility of the Christian faith. When the conversation became somewhat personal, he bluntly said: ‘You don’t need to urge me to consider Christianity. I know there is a thing called ‘predestination’ in your religion. Now, if I am elected by God, I will be saved with or without your persuasion. If I am not chosen to heaven, why waste your time to convince me of the Christian belief? In either way, human effort has little place.’ The theological implication of this comment is significant.
Acts 1:8 (LEB) — 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the farthest part of the earth.”
civic
Active Member
Late tee time this afternoon it will be 100*. I hope to play well.
Yikes, thats hot. Goid luck!Late tee time this afternoon it will be 100*. I hope to play well.
civic
Active Member
I broke 80 again shot a 78 on the same course I did last time. I'm trending in the right direction lol.
Keep it up. Its jusy as mental as it is physical
civic
Active Member
I think you are right as I was by myself again relaxed and not jib jabbing with my brother
Next weekend will be the test when we play together 100 degrees! How do you tolerate such heat?Late tee time this afternoon it will be 100*. I hope to play well.
I am assuming you are referring to C.S. Lewis's foreknowledge theory adopted by many Arminians
Among non Calvinists two forms primarily exist regarding God's election.
(1) The Wesleyan-Arminian “foresight of faith” model of Election.
and,
(2) the Corporate model of Election.
Can you state what your view is?
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FreeInChrist
Active Member
Do you perchance wonder how this statement came to be in Jer 1:5.
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
before you were born I set you apart;
I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”
Or
Psalm 139:13-18
13 For You formed my inward parts;You wove me in my mother’s womb.
14 I will give thanks to You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
Wonderful are Your works,
And my soul knows it very well.
15 My frame was not hidden from You,
When I was made in secret,
And skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth;
16 Your eyes have seen my unformed substance;
And in Your book were all written
The days that were ordained for me,
When as yet there was not one of them.
17 How precious also are Your thoughts to me, O God!
How vast is the sum of them!
18 If I should count them, they would outnumber the sand.
When I awake, I am still with You.
I count it as 2.
civic
Active Member
Drink lots of water lol
praise_yeshua
Active Member
It's hasn't just been adopted by Arminians. It is the predominate view of many different theologies. Unitarians use it too. Most people don't actually understand it. It is the concept of the Eternal nature.
There are many reasons why it is used today. Election is one of them. I don't see a contrast in how it is used between 1 and 2 in your list. Same goal. To explain the Eternal nature of God's knowledge while insisting God is unchanging.
Most people openly contradict themselves in these conversations. I decided in the mid to late 90s to extensively debate the topic. It was one of the reasons they shutdown the bible.org forums at the time. At that time there was much interest in the topic to go along with the NET Bible translation.
Lol indeed.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Those dry gentle breezes in those California valleys....... If you've never experienced it, it is different.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
To begin with. The word isn't "formed". It should be "shapen". It the same context of how David talked about what many consider "inherited original sin"
Psa 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Before I get into to the intricate details of the mistakes being made in this teaching.
May I ask, if what you say is true, then what is the difference between how you say Jeremiah was purposed and how Christ was purposed?
That question is essential because it creates a rank within God's choices and purpose. To me, you're treating Jeremiah with the exact same quality of purpose as Jesus Christ. Exact same.
In view one foreknowledge, men are elected based on God's foreknowledge of them.
Election and Foreknowledge
An Essay ByFred Zaspel
Definition
Foreknowledge, with reference to God, connotes foreordination. The doctrine of election affirms that God chose those whom he would save.Summary
The question at issue here concerns the meaning of foreknowledge with respect to election, particularly in Romans 8:29 – specifically, whether “whom he foreknew he predestined” indicates that God chose whom he would save based on their foreseen faith. Following a brief introduction to the question this essay will sketch out the deciding considerations: the biblical characterization of election, the ground of God’s knowledge, the meaning of “foreknow” with reference to God in Scripture, Romans 8:29 in context, and finally some considerations in Romans 8:29 itself.Introduction
The doctrine of election affirms that for purposes known only to himself God chose those whom he would save. He did not choose them because of anything about them but for his own “good pleasure” (Matt. 11:25-27). The Arminian doctrine of election often argues to the contrary, that God chose whom he would save based on foreseen faith – that looking ahead, God saw who would believe and on that basis chose to save them. That is, according to the Arminian doctrine, God “chose” us but only because we first chose him.What you state makes me think that is what you hold
In the second view Corporate election
II. Election Corporate A second aspect of election is implicit in Paul's Ephesian doxology: the election to salvation is corporate as well as Christocentric. The corporate nature of election has been noted by many. In his comment on Ephesians 1:4, previously cited, Lightfoot writes, "The election of Christ involves implicitly the election of the Church."3 2 Westcott comments on Ephesians 1:4, "exelexato ] He chose us (i.e. Christians as a body v. 3) for Himself out of the world."3 3 Bloomfield comments on Ephesians sians 1:5, " ... the Apostle has here no reference to the personal election of individuals.... 1134 Lange comments on Ephesians 1:3 ... "us" should be taken in its wider meaning ... and should not be limited to the Apostle ... nor to the Jewish Christians, but applies to his people, all men, who have become or will become Christians.35 The corporate inference of Lange's words above is substantiated by his comment on Romans 8:28-30, " ... Christ is the elect in God's real kingdom in the absolute sense, so that all His followers are chosen with Him as organic members, according to their organic relations (Eph. i)."3 6 Obviously, the corporate body of the elect is comprised of individuals. But the election is primarily corporate and only secondarily particular.
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