Tensions in Calvin’s Idea of Predestination

[praise_yeshua]

Stop, take a slow, deep breath, and think about it! Free will is why you asked the question. You didn’t have to ask it. You were not forced to ask it. You asked because you wanted to ask it. Because you were free to ask or not ask.

Doug

Hide from the wise....

 

[praise_yeshua]

I can agree with that, probably.

But that begs a question..... I had 2 but I don't remember the 2nd one

#1. Your belief in the Trinity?

#2. Oh, Your belief on what exactly predestination is because
you said this " I would insist we first start with how Christ was predestined."

A very provocative statement.

If you reply but If I dont reply to you until tomorrow, I will. I wont run away.

Good!

1. @civic and I are largely compatible with one another on our doctrinal defense of the Trinity. We both start with the purity of our Christology. My thoughts always begin with God's choice for and in humanity through Jesus Christ.

2. Predestination is the intent of God in the work of Christ. I'll go ahead and say this, God doesn't always get what He wants. He doesn't need to. He is without external need. The only time there is an absolute relative to predetermination to be found in my theology, it is in the Immaculate and Impeccable work of God in Jesus Christ. God choice in forming Adam was for Adam to be just like Jesus Christ. That happened long before this world was ever formed. Calvinism destroys this truth by rewriting this narrative with some imaginary choice in themselves. It is why I asked one of the resident Calvinists recently if God first chose them and then established the means of their election with Jesus Christ. It is all about them in such nonsense. Always is..

In knowing the mind of God relative to intent in this world, we must first start with that choice. That choice was made in Eternity and it is written and accomplished in the Immutable character of the Holy Trinity. God choice in Himself. Jesus Christ first in all things.

 

[FreeInChrist]

Scripture makes no of conditions whereby election takes place.. the bible does not say God chose you because you chose Him.

Also, your view of God's foreign knowledge violates his aseity

No it does not.

 

[FreeInChrist]

Good!

1. @civic and I are largely compatible with one another on our doctrinal defense of the Trinity. We both start with the purity of our Christology. My thoughts always begin with God's choice for and in humanity through Jesus Christ.

2. Predestination is the intent of God in the work of Christ

Yes, in this I agree fully.

. I'll go ahead and say this, God doesn't always get what He wants. He doesn't need to. He is without external need. The only time there is an absolute relative to predetermination to be found in my theology, it is in the Immaculate and Impeccable work of God in Jesus Christ. God choice in forming Adam was for Adam to be just like Jesus Christ.

OK... listen... I will be back later but I was just called to run a little interference int eh debate thread we viewer can post in...
by Red Baker who is a friend????? of mine..... for years.... who is such a solid Predestined person and we have fought and fought
for years over his beliefs.... He wont claim calvin, he often says he is a high preterist.... sigh.... anyway I cant do that and continue to reply to you

So once I have done that I will be back

That happened long before this world was ever formed. Calvinism destroys this truth by rewriting this narrative with some imaginary choice in themselves. It is why I asked one of the resident Calvinists recently if God first chose them and then established the means of their election with Jesus Christ. It is all about them in such nonsense. Always is..

In knowing the mind of God relative to intent in this world, we must first start with that choice. That choice was made in Eternity and it is written and accomplished in the Immutable character of the Holy Trinity. God choice in Himself. Jesus Christ first in all things.

 

[FreeInChrist]

I am back.

Good!

1. @civic and I are largely compatible with one another on our doctrinal defense of the Trinity. We both start with the purity of our Christology. My thoughts always begin with God's choice for and in humanity through Jesus Christ.

2. Predestination is the intent of God in the work of Christ. I'll go ahead and say this, God doesn't always get what He wants.

I cannot say I agree with this, exactly. God is all knowing and all sufficient. He CAN do and have whatever he wants...He can speak it and it will be.... but I see it as by design that there are things within the human will.. and also angelic free will ( "Heylel, aka Lucifer aka Satan") that He will not interfere with.

Billy Graham... you may hate him but he was very wise in many things and he
The late evangelist Billy Graham discussed how the Almighty God, who created the whole world, can do anything except interfere with a person’s will.

Billy Graham ​

Billy Graham Says, 'God Never Interferes With Your Will' | Christian Learning & News

Billy Graham discussed how the Almighty God, who created the whole world, can do anything except interfere with a person's will.

www.christianlearning.com

​

Billy Graham left timeless messages about the nature of God. In one of his sermon clips, he shared about how God will never intervene in a person’s will, including their decision to follow God and be saved.

Billy first referred to Revelations 3:20 to prove his point. It says, “Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me.”

I actually held that belief before I ever read he taught that.

I believe God has honored that from the day he breathed life into Adam and continues this day, even after the crucifixion of the
of the second and last Adam, Jesus Christ.

I cannot put the actual term Predestination on this but I can say I believe it to be by design. Or Pre-planned.

He doesn't need to. He is without external need. The only time there is an absolute relative to predetermination to be found in my theology, it is in the Immaculate and Impeccable work of God in Jesus Christ.

Except, to me there are specific people who were pre-selected and pre-determined to do the job God had for them.
Prophets, Job (especially) , the Disciples, including Judas , the additional apostles, and others that had a specific role to play down through history. These I would say were predestined because even though God is all knowing, I believe there are some things he would not leave to chance.

God choice in forming Adam was for Adam to be just like Jesus Christ. That happened long before this world was ever formed. Calvinism destroys this truth by rewriting this narrative with some imaginary choice in themselves. It is why I asked one of the resident Calvinists recently if God first chose them and then established the means of their election with Jesus Christ. It is all about them in such nonsense. Always is..

As I understood things when I was. Except it did not "fit" me.

In knowing the mind of God relative to intent in this world, we must first start with that choice. That choice was made in Eternity and it is written and accomplished in the Immutable character of the Holy Trinity. God choice in Himself. Jesus Christ first in all things.

Maranatha,

Amen, amen