Taking credit for your salvation

[Obadiah]

Not at all. God has been good to me. I praise Him for His loving kindness and Grace. I can't tell people that God has given me something to share and then charge them for it.

She doesn't mind charging for what she claims God has given her to share to others.

Mat 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.


I once knew an evangelist named Craig. Some of you may know him. He wrote a book that he claimed that had helped many many people concerning depression. I believe what he said was true. It did help many people. I heard him preach on the topic before.

Yet, he wouldn't share that book with anyone without payment for the book. He would offer to "buy one for someone if they didn't have any money" but this book was certainly for sell.

I don't see how people can do such a thing and then pretend God is pleased with them.

God loves him. Why shouldn't He. However, I can't ignore the problem. It is contrary to the Truth.

I'm sorry that you've had such traumatic experiences with charlatans, Now get over it. And stop bringing other people down.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Here @The Rogue Tomato I did some research just for you on


Early Church Views
Pauline Authorship:

Some early Christian traditions and Church Fathers, including Clement of Alexandria and Origen, attributed the book to the Apostle Paul. However, Origen himself expressed uncertainty, famously stating, "Who wrote the Epistle, God only knows certainly."
Other Early Theories:

Barnabas: Tertullian suggested that Barnabas, a companion of Paul, might be the author.
Luke: Some early scholars proposed Luke, the author of the Gospel of Luke and Acts, due to similarities in style.
Clement of Rome: A few early suggestions also pointed to Clement of Rome.
Modern Scholarship
Language and Style:

The Greek used in Hebrews is more polished and sophisticated than that typically attributed to Paul. Additionally, the style and vocabulary differ significantly from Paul's known letters.

Theological Differences:

Hebrews contains unique theological themes and approaches not seen in Paul’s epistles. It emphasizes Jesus as the high priest in a manner that is distinct from Paul’s writings.
Anonymity and Audience:

The letter is written anonymously, and its audience appears to be Jewish Christians familiar with the Old Testament. The anonymity might suggest that the author was well-known to the recipients but chose to remain unnamed.
Leading Theories Today
Apollos:

Martin Luther proposed Apollos, an eloquent speaker mentioned in Acts 18:24-28. Apollos was well-versed in Scriptures and a colleague of Paul, fitting the profile of the author of Hebrews.
Priscilla:

Some modern scholars have suggested Priscilla, an early Christian missionary mentioned in Acts and Paul's letters. This theory suggests that the anonymity might be due to the author being a woman, which might have been controversial at the time.
Others:

Other suggestions include Silas, Philip the Deacon, and others, but these are less widely accepted.
Conclusion

The true authorship of Hebrews remains unknown. The book's high-quality Greek, distinct theological themes, and the fact that the author was likely a well-educated and respected figure in the early Christian community contribute to the ongoing mystery. While Paul, Apollos, and Priscilla are among the most frequently suggested candidates, the lack of definitive evidence means that the author’s identity remains a matter of scholarly debate and speculation.

So we still don't know.

More than likely. Paul was almost blind from the lasting affects seeing Jesus on the Damascus road. This "blindness" was the "torn in the flesh" that troubled Paul.

The epistles that Paul wrote were from various penman. As such they are uniquely different than one another in various forms.

 

[Johann]

There is no doubt whatsoever that it is Paul's message whether it came from Paul or not. It is distinctly the Gospel that Paul preached.

It's a matter "of Scholarly debate" to this day-I have personally studied the epistles of Paul and he didn't always tied the "knot"

 

[praise_yeshua]

I'm sorry that you've had such traumatic experiences with charlatans, Now get over it. And stop bringing other people down.

Do you think you're the first one that has ever told me this? It is a debate tactic. You want others to think that what I say is based upon bitterness.

Edit by admin

I'm not bitter. I'm just telling the Truth regardless of who likes it or not.

Now is a good time to do this because of how the conversation has gone in the forum. Ask @The Rogue Tomato . I'm no different now than I've been since he's known me. He likes me at times and at times he doesn't. It all revolves around when we agree or not.

I don't have a "click" where I don't say things because of who is there. I don't say everything I believe all at one time because that is not how a conversation should work.

As I said before. I have a low standard for fellowship in Jesus Christ but don't expect me to compromise on what I believe.

 

[Johann]

Do you think you're the first one that has ever told me this? It is a debate tactic. You want others to think that what I say is based upon bitterness.

"Did you beat your wife today"???

I'm not bitter. I'm just telling the Truth regardless of who likes it or not.

Now is a good time to do this because of how the conversation has gone in the forum. Ask @The Rogue Tomato . I'm no different now than I've been since he's known me. He likes me at times and at times he doesn't. It all revolves around when we agree or not.

I don't have a "click" where I don't say things because of who is there. I don't say everything I believe all at one time because that is not how a conversation should work.

As I said before. I have a low standard for fellowship in Jesus Christ but don't expect me to compromise on what I believe.

Well said brother-like you I don't particularly enjoy "clicks" and yo-yo parties and being frivolous, I do enjoy a good humor though.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Here @The Rogue Tomato I did some research just for you on Hebrews


Early Church Views
Pauline Authorship:

Some early Christian traditions and Church Fathers, including Clement of Alexandria and Origen, attributed the book to the Apostle Paul. However, Origen himself expressed uncertainty, famously stating, "Who wrote the Epistle, God only knows certainly."
Other Early Theories:

Barnabas: Tertullian suggested that Barnabas, a companion of Paul, might be the author.
Luke: Some early scholars proposed Luke, the author of the Gospel of Luke and Acts, due to similarities in style.
Clement of Rome: A few early suggestions also pointed to Clement of Rome.
Modern Scholarship
Language and Style:

The Greek used in Hebrews is more polished and sophisticated than that typically attributed to Paul. Additionally, the style and vocabulary differ significantly from Paul's known letters.

Theological Differences:

Hebrews contains unique theological themes and approaches not seen in Paul’s epistles. It emphasizes Jesus as the high priest in a manner that is distinct from Paul’s writings.
Anonymity and Audience:

The letter is written anonymously, and its audience appears to be Jewish Christians familiar with the Old Testament. The anonymity might suggest that the author was well-known to the recipients but chose to remain unnamed.
Leading Theories Today
Apollos:

Martin Luther proposed Apollos, an eloquent speaker mentioned in Acts 18:24-28. Apollos was well-versed in Scriptures and a colleague of Paul, fitting the profile of the author of Hebrews.
Priscilla:

Some modern scholars have suggested Priscilla, an early Christian missionary mentioned in Acts and Paul's letters. This theory suggests that the anonymity might be due to the author being a woman, which might have been controversial at the time.
Others:

Other suggestions include Silas, Philip the Deacon, and others, but these are less widely accepted.
Conclusion

The true authorship of Hebrews remains unknown. The book's high-quality Greek, distinct theological themes, and the fact that the author was likely a well-educated and respected figure in the early Christian community contribute to the ongoing mystery. While Paul, Apollos, and Priscilla are among the most frequently suggested candidates, the lack of definitive evidence means that the author’s identity remains a matter of scholarly debate and speculation.

So we still don't know.

Thanks!

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Do you think you're the first one that has ever told me this? It is a debate tactic. You want others to think that what I say is based upon bitterness.

Edit by admin

I'm not bitter. I'm just telling the Truth regardless of who likes it or not.

Now is a good time to do this because of how the conversation has gone in the forum. Ask @The Rogue Tomato . I'm no different now than I've been since he's known me. He likes me at times and at times he doesn't. It all revolves around when we agree or not.

I don't have a "click" where I don't say things because of who is there. I don't say everything I believe all at one time because that is not how a conversation should work.

As I said before. I have a low standard for fellowship in Jesus Christ but don't expect me to compromise on what I believe.

Clique. I are an editer.

 

[Johann]

Thanks!

Pleasure is all mine and more than willing to assist you brother.

 

[praise_yeshua]

To be clear, to everyone, I wasn't actually insisting anyone. What I said was based upon the "loaded question" reference



No offense intended.

 

[Johann]

Clique. I are an editer.

That's the word I was looking for.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Clique. I are an editer.

You know us hillbillies....

 

[Rockson]

So you live on a plane at 30,000 ft all the time?

And you're missing the point. Can one experientially be in a place where they're transcending one law by applying certain principles? The answer to that is YES. Likewise we CAN walk free from sin with it NOT having dominion over us as we walk in the Spirit. Sometimes in your writing you seem to agree with that but you want to claim but we still have to sin or we will sin. This type of rhetoric is NOT FOUND in scripture . It says IF we sin not when 1 Jn 1:9

You can stop with the "due respect" nonsense.

I can put out that I can have respect for a person. That doesn't mean I have respect for their way of thinking. You can say what you want and condemn me if you want but sorry I don't consider what I said nonsense.

You don't believe it. I respect truth.

I believe what I just told you above and if you respect truth you will consider what I've just said valid.

If you think I'm wrong, then stop this fakeness.

Sorry but YOU ARE wrong in my opinion. I never said you weren't.

You're sinning with such fakeness.

Why because I seek to show diplomacy as much as I can in my speech to others? Here's a lesson you might consider to learn and I'd appeal to you to PLEASE DO. All of our speech DOESN'T HAVE TO BE like bitter coffee which causes one pain and spiritual indigestion. Consider that you can mellow most things out with a little spiritual cream FOR THE REASON that others just might be more inclined to listen.

And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Now what I said above this verse is EXACLTY what God is talking about there! If we're going to launch out however with a spiritual mindset that we need to axe some people.....sorry but that pretty much falls under being a work of the flesh.

I see sin everywhere this forum. Everywhere. From everyone. This is proof you are not living up to your own standard.

Have I and others walked here in sin? You need to consider your opinion doesn't always make it so. You yourself have judged me as sinning in this post because I was nice enough to say with all due respect. You should admit here your judgement IS NOT INFALLIBLE. I may have respected you BUT NOT your position on a particular subject and I mean a particular subject not maybe all of them.

You need to come down out the "clouds". Land on this earth and get in with us sinners.

I'd rather PY seek to bring you up into an understanding of your position in heavenly places. Eph 1: 3 I'll say again with all due respect.....you ARE NOT who you think you are. Your writing has it that we are sinners saved by grace. Sorry but that is not what one is who is born again! Here's the truth of it. We were sinners.....we were saved by grace, but now we are new creatures created in Christ Jesus with the LIFE of God within. 2 Cor 5:17 We have now become partakers of the divine nature. 2 Pt 1:4 We've also been translated OUT of the Kingdom of Darkness and we've been put into the Kingdom of God's dear Son. Col 1:13

Does that mean we'll never sin? NOPE. But if we do sin it's like going to the shower with your socks on. It just doesn't feel right for it doesn't reflect your true identity in the Spirit. And this is a TRUE identity that as far as God is concerned there's no reason it can't be expressed 24/7 all the days of a Christian's life. God Bless and I'll see about responding to some of your other comments later.

 

[TibiasDad]

I believe Paul alright. I don't believe you. Is that requirement in pleasing God?

If I’m saying the same thing that Paul is saying why can’t you believe me too?

They were holy because the "root is holy". Jesus Christ.

Did I say anything different?

Jesus said that they had left their first love. Did you read that part. Was Jesus a liar?

The church John wrote to was decades older than the one to whom Paul wrote. Many of the original people to whom Paul wrote were probably not even alive anymore.

It is interesting that Jesus’s issue with them was that they were good at avoiding wicked people and weeding out false apostles, but that there was more to being Christian than just being right! They had stopped loving people! Notice that Jesus commanded them to “do what you did at first”, ie, loving people while correcting their mistakes.

It was not a matter of if they were doing, but how they were doing it! They hadn’t forsaken their love for Jesus, they had forsaken loving like Jesus. That’s why their lamp was in danger of being extinguished, because it was a quest for being right more than being Jesus! They were more likely to tell someone that they were a liar, than tell them that they were loved!

The earlier version of the Church at Ephesus was commended for their compassion and care; the older church was more interested in their reputation for being right!


Doug

 

[Rockson]

It was not a matter of if they were doing, but how they were doing it! They hadn’t forsaken their love for Jesus, they had forsaken loving like Jesus. That’s why their lamp was in danger of being extinguished, because it was a quest for being right more than being Jesus! They were more likely to tell someone that they were a liar, than tell them that they were loved!

Sure. At times one may have even a right theology but have a wrong spirit in how they make their case and they can actually be more wrong then the issue within somebody their seeking to correct. Jesus said Come unto me .....and I am meek and lowly in heart and you shall find rest for your souls. So the opposite of these things would be smug, proud and arrogant. None of us are perfect but may we NEVER let this be our pattern in life.

 

[praise_yeshua]

If I’m saying the same thing that Paul is saying why can’t you believe me too?

You're not. You quote the words of Paul and this discard them for your own interpretation.

Did I say anything different?

Whether it was you or @Rockson ... you pointed to living "holy" according to your own standards. That is what Arminians always do. Always. You and all the others included.

Pro 21:2 Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts.

The church John wrote to was decades older than the one to whom Paul wrote. Many of the original people to whom Paul wrote were probably not even alive anymore.

Not true but it doesn't matter. They were and then they weren't. Just like you.

It is interesting that Jesus’s issue with them was that they were good at avoiding wicked people and weeding out false apostles, but that there was more to being Christian than just being right! They had stopped loving people! Notice that Jesus commanded them to “do what you did at first”, ie, loving people while correcting their mistakes.

It was not a matter of if they were doing, but how they were doing it! They hadn’t forsaken their love for Jesus, they had forsaken loving like Jesus. That’s why their lamp was in danger of being extinguished, because it was a quest for being right more than being Jesus! They were more likely to tell someone that they were a liar, than tell them that they were loved!

The earlier version of the Church at Ephesus was commended for their compassion and care; the older church was more interested in their reputation for being right!


Doug

Wow. You sure do know how attack others and ignore the fact you're no different. I confessed my sin among you. Why don't you confess your own. Care to share?

Have you ever become guilty before God? What did if feel like? Are you still guilty before God or have you forgotten your debt?

 

[praise_yeshua]

And you're missing the point. Can one experientially be in a place where they're transcending one law by applying certain principles? The answer to that is YES. Likewise we CAN walk free from sin with it NOT having dominion over us as we walk in the Spirit. Sometimes in your writing you seem to agree with that but you want to claim but we still have to sin or we will sin. This type of rhetoric is NOT FOUND in scripture . It says IF we sin not when 1 Jn 1:9

(Edit)
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

I'm not missing anything. You say and do not. That is what mankind does. Do you mind confessing some sins. It will do you good. It will create a sense of guilt in your life that you need. You have a debt to pay. Once a Christian starts thinking they stand.... "take heed lest you fall".

I can put out that I can have respect for a person. That doesn't mean I have respect for their way of thinking. You can say what you want and condemn me if you want but sorry I don't consider what I said nonsense.

Do as you please. That is what you do anyways. I'm not your judge and you're not my judge. We are arguing about applying the Scriptures in our lives. In this, there is no place for "with all due respect" when we are in a very heated disagreement. Believe it is fake or not. Realty is reality.

Why because I seek to show diplomacy as much as I can in my speech to others? Here's a lesson you might consider to learn and I'd appeal to you to PLEASE DO. All of our speech DOESN'T HAVE TO BE like bitter coffee which causes one pain and spiritual indigestion. Consider that you can mellow most things out with a little spiritual cream FOR THE REASON that others just might be more inclined to listen.

Like the apostles or Jesus? I'll start a thread on the offensive things Jesus said to get others attention. I told the Truth. I could have said it in a far worse tone than I did. Recommendation for you, stop pretending your sin doesn't matter and everyone's else's does.

And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

I usually start out very mellow and then I do exactly what Paul did when people start "doubling and tripling down" on their claims....

2Co 13:1 This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.
2Co 13:2 I told you before, and foretell you, as if I were present, the second time; and being absent now I write to them which heretofore have sinned, and to all other, that, if I come again, I will not spare:

I have no authority and I don't want any. However, don't expect me to "pat on you the back" when we are in a contentious argument over Arminian doctrine that forms a requirement where men serve other men. I've watched this most of my entire life as people talk big about being able to escape sinfulness while they just keep on sinning.

Stop for a minute and remember that Jesus came to a group of people claiming to be waiting for Him. At every turn he told them how sinful they were and how they'd been taught wrong. Yet, here you are pretending you're different.

You know the ole "I'm not like them....."

Notice how Jesus keep saving those people that "were not like them".....

Did Jesus call a Greek women a "dog". We have a word for this in the English language that I'll not say here. Jesus told her that she didn't have any hope. Yet she shows "faith" toward Him....

Mat 15:26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.
Mat 15:27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.

Luke 14:11 For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

I'd rather PY seek to bring you up into an understanding of your position in heavenly places. Eph 1: 3 I'll say again with all due respect.....you ARE NOT who you think you are. Your writing has it that we are sinners saved by grace. Sorry but that is not what one is who is born again! Here's the truth of it. We were sinners.....we were saved by grace, but now we are new creatures created in Christ Jesus with the LIFE of God within. 2 Cor 5:17 We have now become partakers of the divine nature. 2 Pt 1:4 We've also been translated OUT of the Kingdom of Darkness and we've been put into the Kingdom of God's dear Son. Col 1:13

Does that mean we'll never sin? NOPE. But if we do sin it's like going to the shower with your socks on. It just doesn't feel right for it doesn't reflect your true identity in the Spirit. And this is a TRUE identity that as far as God is concerned there's no reason it can't be expressed 24/7 all the days of a Christian's life. God Bless and I'll see about responding to some of your other comments later.

I don't see a single word of humility in your response. Not one. I see claims that you can live above sin mixed with claims that you can't always live above it.

Consider the words of our Master.....

Joh 13:10 Jesus replied, “The one who has bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean.

Do you wash your feet daily?

Jesus acknowledges the dirtiness of our feet. At our best, we get dirty in this flesh and world we live in.... very very often. More often than you're willing to acknowledge.

You have a theology that is overstated response to Calvin's nonsense. Which is in turn, is wrong in many many ways.

 

[TibiasDad]

You're not. You quote the words of Paul and this discard them for your own interpretation.

I’m still waiting for your explanation as to how I’ve done this.

you pointed to living "holy" according to your own standards. That is what Arminians always do. Always. You and all the others included.

Please example my saying this, PY; you’re loud in proclamation but short in proof.

Not true but it doesn't matter. They were and then they weren't. Just like you.

Ephesians was written sometime between 60-62 AD, and Revelation was written in 95-96 AD, which means there were 34-36 years. The lifespan of 30 AD was 35 years on average, which would mean that the adult population of the 60 AD church were more than likely dead when John wrote.

Wow. You sure do know how attack others and ignore the fact you're no different.

Whom did I attack?


Doug

 

[TomL]

Then why are sinning against me right now? If you're so good, then why do you insist on continually sinning against me?

What makes you think I am sinning against you

There is no sin in telling you scriptural truth

BTW. I didn't say anything about progressive fulfillment. Quote me transgressor.

Are these not your words

praise_yeshua said:
As I have stated before, Ezekiel 36:27 isn't completed yet.

You did not say it has not happened yet

you stated it is not complete

I will accept your apology

Is it okay if I ask you about your own personal experience with "becoming guilty before God"?

Have you ever experience this? What did it feel like? Do you become guilty again? I know I do. I confess my sins before you.

Confessions of my sinfulness....are you going to pray for me or continue to insist that I'm not in fellowship with God?

I never stated a word about your fellowship with god

i quoted scripture

Romans 8 (KJV 1900) — 1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. 12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

1 Corinthians 10:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Ezekiel 36:26–27 (KJV 1900) — 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

You apparently do not want to discuss scripture

1. I get angry when doctrinally you insist that I'm not in fellowship with God when I can feel His presence and love every day of my life. Arminians told me I was going to hell. They still do. Feel free to me that I am. I don't like it. I confess my sin.

Show me where I stated you are not in fellowship

All I have done is post scripture

I have no desire to discuss your person

So I request you show me where i stated any such thing

And if we can not have a discussion confined to scripture I do not see any value in further discussion.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I’m still waiting for your explanation as to how I’ve done this.

I have been dealing with this for some time now. Read it again.

Please example my saying this, PY; you’re loud in proclamation but short in proof.

God has the record. What you judge doesn't matter.

Ephesians was written sometime between 60-62 AD, and Revelation was written in 95-96 AD, which means there were 34-36 years. The lifespan of 30 AD was 35 years on average, which would mean that the adult population of the 60 AD church were more than likely dead when John wrote. .

You were not there and you're dating Revelation based upon the teaching of Higher Critics. You might want to Google that term "higher critic".

Whom did I attack?

Anyone that disagrees with you. I do it too. That is what we are doing. We are arguing.

You are guilty just like everyone else. Are you confession your sins like the Scriptures teach or not?

For someone who has pastored a church before, you certain don't pay attention to what you read.

Eph 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Eph 4:31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
Eph 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

I wonder why Paul is preaching for the Ephesians to forgive one another? Why the appeal to put away malice, wrath, and anger?

Do you plan on confessing your sins like the Scriptures demand?

Jas 5:16 Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working.

 

[praise_yeshua]

What makes you think I am sinning against you

There is no sin in telling you scriptural truth

You're not. If you were, I would accept it.

Are these not your words
You did not say it has not happened yet

you stated it is not complete

I will accept your apology

Saying something isn't complete yet isn't identical to a progressive fulfillment. I try to choose my words wisely.

I never stated a word about your fellowship with god

Not specifically but that is what you teach.

You apparently do not want to discuss scripture

You are repeatedly quoting Scripture that I have already dealt with. Accept it or not. I even told you that for the sake of argument, I will concede to disagreement and move on. That is what I did.

Now pretend I didn't say this and repeat yourself again.

All I have done is post scripture

I have no desire to discuss your person

So I request you show me where i stated any such thing

And if we can not have a discussion confined to scripture I do not see any value in further discussion.

Are you going to confess your sins like the Scriptures teach? Do you mind living up to the Scriptures instead of just quoting them?

Jas 5:16 Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working.

Do you great power in prayer in James 5:16? Do you see how James talks about confessing sins?

Do you see James references Elijahs "NATURE" just like ours.

Jas 5:17 Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed fervently that it might not rain, and for three years and six months it did not rain on the earth.