brightfame52
Well-known member
Dont worry about it, I know you just evading the post. The post is in line with the title of the thread.
Taking credit for your salvation
- Thread starter The Rogue Tomato
- Start date
You can't do it
I know it and you know it
Aside from which you never address rebuttal
civic
Well-known member
The invisible elect
It exists only in the imagination
civic
Well-known member
Yep since it’s not in the Bible
Biblelesson
Active member
Well... Paul does appeal to election as one part of a sustained argument for God’s preservation of The Saints in Romans 8:28–39. “Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies”. I like how he uses an interrogative form of speech to press home a truth: no one can successfully press charges against God’s chosen people! The language is legal and binding.
Somewhat irrelevant to the passage under discussion
Biblelesson
Active member
Sorry Tom my bad, I thought you were talking about the whole bible. I should have paid more attention.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Who besides "God". God can certainly bring charges against His elect.
Man.... is a different story. No man can judge another. Christ is Master of all.
No problem
Johann
Well-known member
I would say every believer is elect IN the elect ONE.
Jesus as Elect
The term "elect" is used in the New Testament to refer to Jesus in a couple of key passages:
Isaiah 42:1 (cited in Matthew 12:18):
Isaiah 42:1: "Behold my servant, whom I uphold; my chosen (elect) one in whom my soul delights; I have put my Spirit upon him; he will bring forth justice to the nations."
Matthew 12:18: "Behold, my servant whom I have chosen, my beloved with whom my soul is well pleased. I will put my Spirit upon him, and he will proclaim justice to the Gentiles."
1 Peter 2:4-6:
"As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious, you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. For it stands in Scripture: 'Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a cornerstone chosen and precious, and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.'"
These passages indicate that Jesus is referred to as the chosen or elect one of God, fulfilling the role of the Messiah.
The Elect in Context
The term "elect" or "chosen" is used in various contexts within the Bible to refer to different groups of people, primarily Israel and believers in Christ.
Israel as the Elect:
Deuteronomy 7:6: "For you are a people holy to the Lord your God. The Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for his treasured possession, out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth."
Isaiah 45:4: "For the sake of my servant Jacob, and Israel my chosen, I call you by your name, I name you, though you do not know me."
Believers in Christ as the Elect:
Romans 8:33: "Who shall bring any charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies."
Colossians 3:12: "Put on then, as God's chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassionate hearts, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience."
1 Peter 1:1-2: "Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who are elect exiles of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you."
Exegesis and Theological Implications
Elect in the Old Testament: The term "elect" often refers to Israel as God's chosen people. This election was based on God's sovereign choice and love, not on Israel's merit (Deuteronomy 7:7-8).
Elect in the New Testament: The term expands to include all believers in Christ, both Jews and Gentiles. This reflects the fulfillment of God's promise to bless all nations through Abraham's seed (Genesis 12:3; Galatians 3:16). Believers are chosen by God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ.
Conclusion
In summary, Jesus is referred to as God's elect in Scripture, particularly in prophetic passages like Isaiah 42:1 and their New Testament citations. The term "elect" also applies to Israel in the Old Testament and to all believers in Christ in the New Testament. This dual application underscores the continuity and fulfillment of God's redemptive plan through Jesus Christ, extending the blessings of election from Israel to the global church.
Johann.
To be noted the election of Israel did not guarantee their salvation. So election need not encompass salvation
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
Right. Election by God just means God's choice, not man's choice. What it is election TO is shown by the context.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Believe
Active member
Now that is definitely interesting. With respect to the Old Testament Israelite, faith was essential to standing in right relationship to God. The Israelite had to believe that Yahweh, the God of Israel, was the true God, superior to all other gods. This would produce fruit in the form of loyal worship of only Yahweh and no other god. Old Testament Israelites also had to believe that Yahweh had come to their forefathers—Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob—and made a covenant with them that made them his exclusive people.
Abraham, the progenitor of the Jews was chosen by God and the promise made prior to his being circumcized. This covenant of grace insured his spiritual seed of their part in the work of redemption to be accomplished in the Messiah.
"They looked forward to the cross for their salvation and we look back to the cross for ours", I always like that one.
In the end they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Believe
Active member
Right on that's pretty much the same with everything. You have your real deal and your want to be's and your hanger-oners
Yep
TibiasDad
Well-known member
Bump for @praise_yeshua …
Kenneth Gentry in his book Before Jerusalem fell writes
Identifying the “Tyrant”It should be painfully obvious upon even a cursory reading of the text that the required name, “Domitian,” is not once mentioned in this piece of evidence – an evidence that Swete4 calls one of “the chief authorities”! John is said to return from Patmos after the death of“the tyrant.” But who was this “tyrant”? May we cite Clement of Alexander’s nebulous statement as evidence for a late date with any credible degree of certainty or conviction? It is true that “the absenceof a name in both Clement and Origen certainly does not prove that no name was known to them. But the coincidence is curious, and on the whole suggests that the Alexandria tradition assigned the stay in Patmos to banishment by an emperor, but did not name the emperor.”5As a matter of fact, Nero above all other emperors best meets up to the qualification of “tyrant” for several reasons
Apollonius of Tyana (b. 4 B.C.) says that Nero was “commonly called a Tyrant”: “In my travels, which have been wider than everman yet accomplished, I have seen many, many wild beasts of Arabia and India; but this beast, that is commonly called a Tyrant, I know not how many heads it has, nor if it be crooked of claw, and armed with horrible fangs. . . . And of wild beasts you cannot say that they were ever known to eat their own mothers, but Nero has gorged himself on this diet.”8Roman historian Tacitus (A.D. 56-117) spoke of Nero’s “cruel nature” that “put to death so many innocent men.” 10 He records a senate speech that discussed the wrongs of Tiberius and Gaius,noting that “Nero arose more implacable and more cruel” and that the senate under Nero “had been cut down.” 11 Suetonius (A.D.70-130) speaks of Nero’s “cruelty of disposition” evidencing itself at an early age. 12 He documents Nero’s evil and states: “Neither discrimination nor moderation [were employed] in putting to death whomsoever he pleased on any pretext whatever.” 13 Juvenal (c. A.D.60- 138) speaks of “Nero’s cruel and bloody tyranny.”
