Taking credit for your salvation

[TomL]

I'm not going to respond to what I have dealt with multiple times. I asked that you do your own work by providing the semantic range of your argument. If you do, then you will realize that there is no absolute in your arguments.

No, you have not dealt with the text. You resorted to personal experience as though that were how one interprets Scripture. It is not

As I have stated before, Ezekiel 36:27 isn't completed yet.

Book, Chapter, verse

Where is it stated it will be fulfilled progressively over thousands of years?

Rom 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body

Nothing at all to do with the interpretation of

Romans 8:3–13 (NASB 2020) — 3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are in accord with the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are in accord with the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. 10 If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. 12 So then, brothers and sisters, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh—13 for if you are living in accord with the flesh, you are going to die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

That "law" you claim you have isn't changing you like you claim it does. You're proof that our redemption isn't complete. The Scriptures are proof that our redemption isn't complete.

The issue is not the completeness of our redemption. It is the interpretation of the texts

1 Corinthians 10:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

and you are not interpreting the texts

Our redemption isn't complete until we are all joined together in Christ.

Heb 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

Heb 11:40 has nothing at all to do with our present sanctification. Nothing

 

[TomL]

Like....

Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Scripture does not contradict scripture. Where does that verse state one will never be able to fulfill the righteous demands of the law?

Romans 8:3–4 (NASB 2020) — 3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

 

[Johann]

I have never advocated for this or implied it. The ability to not sin does not preclude the ability to sin.

Why is it so hard to believe that the believer in Christ should be able to stop the sinful behavior of his former life? Why is a consistent level of godly behavior that continually grows as we mature in the faith an absurdity that cannot be attained when that is the biblical expectation and expressed goal.


Doug

I have never advocated for this or implied it. The ability to not sin does not preclude the ability to sin.

Why is it so hard to believe that the believer in Christ should be able to stop the sinful behavior of his former life? Why is a consistent level of godly behavior that continually grows as we mature in the faith an absurdity that cannot be attained when that is the biblical expectation and expressed goal.


Doug

You believe the scriptures and our Lord Jesus Christ @TibiasDad and far be it from me to question you.


Ephesians 2:1-5 (KJV)

"And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved"
Colossians 2:13 (KJV)

"And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;"
Romans 6:4 (KJV)

"Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."
Romans 8:11 (KJV)

"But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you."
1 Peter 3:18 (KJV)

"For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:"

Galatians 5:24 (KJV)

"And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."
Romans 6:6 (KJV)

"Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."
Galatians 2:20 (KJV)

"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."
Colossians 3:5 (KJV)

"Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:"
Romans 8:13 (KJV)

"For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live."


These verses highlight the call for believers to actively put to death their sinful nature and live according to the Spirit. This metaphorical crucifixion of the flesh represents a decisive break with past sins and a commitment to follow Christ, embodying the transformative power of the gospel in a believer's life.

Shalom to you and family
Johann

 

[TibiasDad]

You believe the scriptures and our Lord Jesus Christ @TibiasDad and far be it from me to question you.


Ephesians 2:1-5 (KJV)

"And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved"
Colossians 2:13 (KJV)

"And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;"
Romans 6:4 (KJV)

"Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."
Romans 8:11 (KJV)

"But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you."
1 Peter 3:18 (KJV)

"For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:"

Galatians 5:24 (KJV)

"And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."
Romans 6:6 (KJV)

"Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."
Galatians 2:20 (KJV)

"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."
Colossians 3:5 (KJV)

"Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:"
Romans 8:13 (KJV)

"For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live."


These verses highlight the call for believers to actively put to death their sinful nature and live according to the Spirit. This metaphorical crucifixion of the flesh represents a decisive break with past sins and a commitment to follow Christ, embodying the transformative power of the gospel in a believer's life.

Shalom to you and family
Johann

That is all I have been saying…

Doug

 

[Johann]

That is all I have been saying…

Doug

Grace and eirene/peace to you and family dear brother.
Johann.

 

[TibiasDad]

Grace and eirene/peace to you and family dear brother.
Johann.

To you as well!

Doug

 

[Aeliana]

Joyce Myers is a false prophet and Charlatan. She has made her living off the backs of innocent Christians. This is the Truth.

Does this offend your pride?

Not at all everyone's entitled to their uninformed opinion. She's actually helps millions overcome sexual abuse by writing books about how God delivered her. Not to mention the thousands of conferences she's held. And the wonderful work she's doing in Africa.

Here's one of her books I recommend for you "Managing Your Emotions: Instead of Your Emotions Managing You"
And here's today's devotion from Joyce that I know you're going to love.

Rose-Colored Glasses and Magnifying Glasses

THEREFORE YOU have no excuse ordefense orjustification, O man, whoever you are who judges andcondemns another. For in posing as judge andpassing sentence on another, you condemn yourself, because you who judge are habitually practicing the very same things [that you censure and denounce]. Romans 2:1

When we think and talk about what is wrong with everyone else, we are usually deceived about our own conduct. Jesus commanded that we not concern ourselves with what is wrong with others when we have so much wrong with ourselves (see Matthew 7:3-5). The Bible clearly tells us that when we judge others, we often judge them for things that we also do! I once asked God why we would do something ourselves and think it was perfectly alright but judge someone else who does it.

The Lord said, "Joyce, you look at yourself through rose-colored glasses, but you look at everyone else through a magnifying glass." It's true! We make excuses for our own behavior, but when someone else does the same thing we do, we are often merciless. I encourage you to reverse the process, assume the best in others, but keep your own life under the magnifying glass. Allow God to deal with you first, and then you will learn the scriptural way of helping others grow.

Prayer Starter: Holy Spirit, instead of examining the lives of others, I want You to help me examine my own life. I know that with Your help, I can correct the issues I have and find the proper way to help others grow as well.

 

[Johann]

Not at all everyone's entitled to their uninformed opinion. She's actually helps millions overcome sexual abuse by writing books about how God delivered her. Not to mention the thousands of conferences she's held. And the wonderful work she's doing in Africa.

Here's one of her books I recommend for you "Managing Your Emotions: Instead of Your Emotions Managing You"
And here's today's devotion from Joyce that I know you're going to love.

Rose-Colored Glasses and Magnifying Glasses

THEREFORE YOU have no excuse ordefense orjustification, O man, whoever you are who judges andcondemns another. For in posing as judge andpassing sentence on another, you condemn yourself, because you who judge are habitually practicing the very same things [that you censure and denounce]. Romans 2:1

When we think and talk about what is wrong with everyone else, we are usually deceived about our own conduct. Jesus commanded that we not concern ourselves with what is wrong with others when we have so much wrong with ourselves (see Matthew 7:3-5). The Bible clearly tells us that when we judge others, we often judge them for things that we also do! I once asked God why we would do something ourselves and think it was perfectly alright but judge someone else who does it.

The Lord said, "Joyce, you look at yourself through rose-colored glasses, but you look at everyone else through a magnifying glass." It's true! We make excuses for our own behavior, but when someone else does the same thing we do, we are often merciless. I encourage you to reverse the process, assume the best in others, but keep your own life under the magnifying glass. Allow God to deal with you first, and then you will learn the scriptural way of helping others grow.

Prayer Starter: Holy Spirit, instead of examining the lives of others, I want You to help me examine my own life. I know that with Your help, I can correct the issues I have and find the proper way to help others grow as well.

Well zed!
Johann.

 

[Aeliana]

Well zed!
Johann.

Yea, Me and Zed go way back.

 

[Johann]

Yea, Me and Zed go way back.

Way, way back-nicely done!

 

[praise_yeshua]

Not at all everyone's entitled to their uninformed opinion. She's actually helps millions overcome sexual abuse by writing books about how God delivered her. Not to mention the thousands of conferences she's held. And the wonderful work she's doing in Africa.

Here's one of her books I recommend for you "Managing Your Emotions: Instead of Your Emotions Managing You"
And here's today's devotion from Joyce that I know you're going to love.

Rose-Colored Glasses and Magnifying Glasses

THEREFORE YOU have no excuse ordefense orjustification, O man, whoever you are who judges andcondemns another. For in posing as judge andpassing sentence on another, you condemn yourself, because you who judge are habitually practicing the very same things [that you censure and denounce]. Romans 2:1

When we think and talk about what is wrong with everyone else, we are usually deceived about our own conduct. Jesus commanded that we not concern ourselves with what is wrong with others when we have so much wrong with ourselves (see Matthew 7:3-5). The Bible clearly tells us that when we judge others, we often judge them for things that we also do! I once asked God why we would do something ourselves and think it was perfectly alright but judge someone else who does it.

The Lord said, "Joyce, you look at yourself through rose-colored glasses, but you look at everyone else through a magnifying glass." It's true! We make excuses for our own behavior, but when someone else does the same thing we do, we are often merciless. I encourage you to reverse the process, assume the best in others, but keep your own life under the magnifying glass. Allow God to deal with you first, and then you will learn the scriptural way of helping others grow.

Prayer Starter: Holy Spirit, instead of examining the lives of others, I want You to help me examine my own life. I know that with Your help, I can correct the issues I have and find the proper way to help others grow as well.

I don't believe you. Your pride brought you to her defense. Will you defend Christ like you've defended her? Is He your first thought or your last? Have you left your first love?

Yeah. She is wonderful. I mean she hasn't made a single penny on the Good Name of God to her benefit. I had a website very early on the web called "withoutcharge"

1Co 9:18 What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.

Christ helped you. Give Him the Glory and stop praising those that can benefit you here. Lay up treasures in heaven.

 

[praise_yeshua]

With all due respect PY so what? When you're in an airplane at 30,000 ft you're still surrounded outside the plane by gravity. So just why is it that you don't just fall out of the sky. You know the answer to that. It's because you're applying other principles which cause you to transcend about gravity. Same as with the walk in the Spirit. Walk in the Spirit and you shall not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. SHALL NOT.

So you live on a plane at 30,000 ft all the time? You can stop with the "due respect" nonsense. You don't believe it. I respect truth. You should do the same. If you think I'm wrong, then stop this fakeness. You're sinning with such fakeness. I see sin everywhere this forum. Everywhere. From everyone. This is proof you are not living up to your own standard.

You need to come down out the "clouds". Land on this earth and get in with us sinners.

I am bound if you want to say it that way to a life where I can see sin working in the lives of others. That doesn't mean my life is filled with sin any more than if 10 people were rolling in the mud yards around me. Doesn't mean I am..

Yet you are. Maybe less than these others but you're not seeing yourself for what you are. Do you plan to keep doing this if you end up having dementia and start using the Lord's name in vain? I mean you talk "big". We all do. I stopped because it is LYING. You're lying and don't even realize it. I believe God still loves you and has mercy upon you. He will protect you all the days of your life.

Psa 23:6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

David might have died from a sexually transmitted disease. Do you see that little word "might" in what I just said. Don't tell me "might" is an absolute. Some of you are being entirely ridiculous in these arguments you're making.

Sorry PY but a born again child of God isn't in the presence of sin in the way that you're saying it.

Sure you are. Your flesh is rotten. It will prove it to you one day. I can tell you're a young man. A smart young man. Your life is confined to flesh and that flesh you have is getting weaker and weaker every day of your life.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Paul called them God’s holy people:

To God’s holy people in Ephesus, a the faithful in Christ Jesus: (Eph 1:1)

Are you calling Paul false?
Doug

I believe Paul alright. I don't believe you. Is that requirement in pleasing God?

They were holy because the "root is holy". Jesus Christ.

Jesus said that they had left their first love. Did you read that part. Was Jesus a liar?

 

[Johann]

I believe Paul alright. I don't believe you. Is that requirement in pleasing God?

They were holy because the "root is holy". Jesus Christ.

Jesus said that they had left their first love. Did you read that part. Was Jesus a liar?

Does it mean we all have left our first love brother? Especially when we read the context?
Scriptural Reference:
Revelation 2:1-7:

The specific verse is Revelation 2:4 (ESV): "But I have this against you, that you have abandoned the love you had at first."
Context of the Letter to the Church in Ephesus:
Authorship: The book of Revelation was written by the Apostle John while he was exiled on the island of Patmos.

Recipient: The church in Ephesus, one of the seven churches in Asia Minor (modern-day Turkey).
Purpose: Jesus Christ, through John, addresses the church to commend their works and perseverance but also to rebuke them for losing their initial love and zeal.
Detailed Analysis:
Commendation (Revelation 2:2-3):

Jesus begins by acknowledging the positive aspects of the Ephesian church:
Their hard work and perseverance.
Their intolerance of wicked people.
Their ability to test and reject false apostles.
Their endurance and hardships for His name without growing weary.
Rebuke (Revelation 2:4):

Despite these commendable qualities, Jesus rebukes them for abandoning their "first love." This likely refers to their initial fervor, passion, and devotion to Christ and to each other that had waned over time.

The "first love" can be understood as both their love for Christ and their love for one another, reflecting the greatest commandments to love God and love others (Matthew 22:37-40).

Exhortation and Warning (Revelation 2:5-6):

Jesus exhorts them to "Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first."
He warns that if they do not repent, He will come and remove their lampstand from its place, symbolizing the church's witness and effectiveness.
He also acknowledges that they hate the practices of the Nicolaitans, which He also hates, further affirming their discernment in doctrinal matters.
Promise (Revelation 2:7):

Jesus concludes with a promise to those who overcome: "To the one who conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God."


This promise is an encouragement for the faithful to persevere and return to their initial love and devotion.
Historical and Cultural Background:


Ephesus: Ephesus was a major city in the Roman province of Asia, known for its significant commercial, political, and religious influence. It was home to the Temple of Artemis, one of the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World.
Church in Ephesus: The Ephesian church had a rich history, having been established by Paul (Acts 19) and having received extensive teaching from him, as well as from other prominent early Christians like Apollos and Timothy. The Apostle John himself is believed to have spent significant time in Ephesus.


Theological and Practical Implications:
Spiritual Vigilance: The message serves as a warning to all believers and churches to maintain their initial zeal and love for Christ and not let it diminish over time.
Repentance and Renewal: It emphasizes the importance of repentance and returning to foundational principles of faith and love.
Balance of Doctrine and Love: While doctrinal purity and perseverance in good works are commendable, they must be balanced with heartfelt love and devotion to God and others.

I believe we all should have a zest and zeal, albeit not a misplaced zeal, like the Pharisees and Sadducee's-Sanhedrin-and I believe we can "wander" for a while, like the prodigal but our heavenly Father is always there, more than willing, running to come to our aid and rescue us.

Rom 8 is a powerful passage-as you are aware, that WE need to crucify ourselves and live holy, upright lives, the Imperatives are on US to crucify the flesh and fleshly desires. Now should I strive to live like that would you call me a hypocrite?

Before you do!---

¶ Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in union with the Messiah [Or Christ] Jesus. [Other mss. read Jesus, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit]
Rom 8:2 For the Spirit’s law of life in the Messiah [Or Christ] Jesus has set me [Other mss. read you] free from the Law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the Law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the flesh, God did. By sending his own Son in the form of humanity, [Lit. of the flesh] he condemned sin by being incarnate,
Rom 8:4 so that the righteous requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not live according to human nature but according to the Spirit.

Rom 8:5 ¶ For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 To focus our minds on the human nature leads to death, but to focus our minds on the Spirit leads to life and peace.
Rom 8:7 That is why the mind that focuses on human nature is hostile toward God. It refuses to submit to the authority of God’s Law because it is powerless to do so.
Rom 8:8 Indeed, those who are under the control of human nature cannot please God.

Rom 8:9 ¶ You, however, are not under the control of the human nature but under the control of the Spirit, since God’s Spirit lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of the Messiah, [Or Christ] he does not belong to him.
Rom 8:10 But if the Messiah [Or Christ] is in you, your bodies are dead due to sin, but the spirit [Or Spirit] is alive due to righteousness.
Rom 8:11 And if the Spirit of the one who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, then the one who raised the Messiah [Or Christ] from the dead will also make your mortal bodies alive by his Spirit who lives in you.

Heirs with Christ
Rom 8:12 ¶ Consequently, brothers, we are not—with respect to human nature, that is—under an obligation to live according to human nature.
Rom 8:13 For if you live according to human nature, you are going to die, but if by the Spirit you continually put to death the activities of the body, you will live.
Rom 8:14 For all who are led by God’s Spirit are God’s children.
Rom 8:15 For you have not received a spirit of slavery that leads you into fear again. Instead, you have received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba! [Abba is Aram. for Father.] Father!”
Rom 8:16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children.
Rom 8:17 Now if we are children, we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with the Messiah [Or Christ] —if, in fact, we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory.

Future Glory
Rom 8:18 God’s Spirit Helps Us
¶ For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed to us.
Rom 8:19 For the creation is eagerly awaiting the revelation of God’s children,
Rom 8:20 because the creation has become subject to futility, though not by anything it did. [Lit. by its subjecting] The one who subjected it did so in the certainty [Lit. hope]
Rom 8:21 that the creation itself would also be set free from corrupting bondage in order to share the glorious freedom of God’s children.
Rom 8:22 For we know that all the rest of creation has been groaning with the pains of childbirth up to the present time.
Rom 8:23 However, not only the creation, but we who have the first fruits of the Spirit also groan inwardly as we eagerly await our adoption, the redemption of our bodies.
Rom 8:24 For we were saved with this hope in mind. [The Gk. lacks in mind] Now a hope that can be observed is not really hope, for who hopes for what can be seen?
Rom 8:25 But if we hope for what we do not yet observe, we eagerly wait for it with patience.

Rom 8:26 ¶ In the same way, the Spirit also helps us in our weakness, since we do not know how to pray as we should. But the Spirit himself intercedes for us [Other mss. lack for us] with groans too deep for words,
Rom 8:27 and the one who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, for the Spirit [Lit. he] intercedes for the saints according to God’s will. [Lit. according to God]
Rom 8:28 And we know that for those who love God, that is, for those who are called according to his purpose, all things are working together [Other mss. read that God works all things together for good for those who love God and who are called according to his purpose] for good.

Rom 8:29 ¶ For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that the Son [Lit. that he] might be the firstborn among many brothers.
Rom 8:30 And those whom he predestined, he also called; and those whom he called, he also justified; and those whom he justified he also glorified.

God's Everlasting Love
Rom 8:31 Nothing Can Separate Us from God’s Love
¶ What, then, can we say about all of this? If God is for us, who can be against us?
Rom 8:32 The one who did not spare his own Son, but offered him as a sacrifice [The Gk. lacks as a sacrifice] for all of us, surely will give us all things, along with his Son, [Lit. with him] won’t he?
Rom 8:33 Who will accuse God’s elect? It is God who justifies!
Rom 8:34 Who is the one to condemn? It is the Messiah [Or Christ] Jesus who is interceding on our behalf. He died, and more importantly, has been raised and is seated at the right hand of God.

Rom 8:35 ¶ Who will separate us from the Messiah’s [Or Christ’s] love? Can trouble, distress, persecution, hunger, nakedness, danger, or a violent death [Lit. a sword] do this? [The Gk. lacks do this]
Rom 8:36 As it is written,
“For your sake we are being put to death all day long.
We are thought of as sheep headed for slaughter.” [Ps 44:22]

Rom 8:37 ¶ In all these things we are triumphantly victorious due to the one who loved us.
Rom 8:38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor rulers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers,
Rom 8:39 nor anything above, nor anything below, nor anything else in all creation can separate us from the love of God that is ours [The Gk. lacks ours] in union with the Messiah [Or Christ] Jesus, our Lord.

Shalom
J.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Where is it stated it will be fulfilled progressively over thousands of years?

Then why are sinning against me right now? If you're so good, then why do you insist on continually sinning against me?

BTW. I didn't say anything about progressive fulfillment. Quote me transgressor.

Is it okay if I ask you about your own personal experience with "becoming guilty before God"?

Have you ever experience this? What did it feel like? Do you become guilty again? I know I do. I confess my sins before you.

Confessions of my sinfulness....are you going to pray for me or continue to insist that I'm not in fellowship with God?

1. I get angry when doctrinally you insist that I'm not in fellowship with God when I can feel His presence and love every day of my life. Arminians told me I was going to hell. They still do. Feel free to me that I am. I don't like it. I confess my sin.

2. I'm angry at times and shouldn't be. I fail the requires of the Scriptures concerning anger.

3. My wife agreevated me this morning. I responded badly. I love her so much. I should not have reacted the way I did because of how much I love her. I needlessly made my wife upset.

4. I drank a diet mountain dew this morning. I really enjoyed but I sinned against my flesh in doing so. I know this sin isn't a "sin unto death" but I do believe it hurt my body. I keep doing it because of the caffeine and taste.

5. I haven't tithed but a few times when I was young. Arminians told me that I was robbing God. However, I think they were actually robbing me. No matter how I try, I can't change my mind. I can't.

6. I'm stuck in a conflict. I believe those who preach Arminianism are not pleasing God. In fact, I believe they are actually damaging my brothers in Adam and Christ. I don't want anyone to be judged by God but I can't help but want them to stop doing this. I don't believe any Arminian actually "live up to" what they require of others. I've never meet one who has. I can see with my own eyes how every single active Arminian in this forum doesn't live up to what they doctrinal require of others.

Now that I've shared my "sins" and been very "real" with all of you, please tell me how I'm not "holy" and you are.....

 

[Johann]

Then why are sinning against me right now? If you're so good, then why do you insist on continually sinning against me?

BTW. I didn't say anything about progressive fulfillment. Quote me transgressor.

Is it okay if I ask you about your own personal experience with "becoming guilty before God"?

Have you ever experience this? What did it feel like? Do you become guilty again? I know I do. I confess my sins before you.

Confessions of my sinfulness....are you going to pray for me or continue to insist that I'm not in fellowship with God?

1. I get angry when doctrinally you insist that I'm not in fellowship with God when I can feel His presence and love every day of my life. Arminians told me I was going to hell. They still do. Feel free to me that I am. I don't like it. I confess my sin.

2. I'm angry at times and shouldn't be. I fail the requires of the Scriptures concerning anger.

3. My wife agreevated me this morning. I responded badly. I love her so much. I should not have reacted the way I did because of how much I love her. I needlessly made my wife upset.

4. I drank a diet mountain dew this morning. I really enjoyed but I sinned against my flesh in doing so. I know this sin isn't a "sin unto death" but I do believe it hurt my body. I keep doing it because of the caffeine and taste.

5. I haven't tithed but a few times when I was young. Arminians told me that I was robbing God. However, I think they were actually robbing me. No matter how I try, I can't change my mind. I can't.

6. I'm stuck in a conflict. I believe those who preach Arminianism are not pleasing God. In fact, I believe they are actually damaging my brothers in Adam and Christ. I don't want anyone to be judged by God but I can't help but want them to stop doing this. I don't believe any Arminian actually "live up to" what they require of others. I've never meet one who has. I can see with my own eyes how every single active Arminian in this forum doesn't live up to what they doctrinal require of others.

Now that I've shared my "sins" and been very "real" with all of you, please tell me how I'm not "holy" and you are.....

You have nothing to fear, I am not judging you.
J.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Does it mean we all have left our first love brother? Especially when we read the context?
Scriptural Reference:
Revelation 2:1-7:
Despite these commendable qualities, Jesus rebukes them for abandoning their "first love." This likely refers to their initial fervor, passion, and devotion to Christ and to each other that had waned over time.

My argument is NOT that all of us are at this very moment, in the same condition.

MY argument is that it is inevitable.

Even John the Baptist questioned Messiah when he was in prison.

I left my first love when my wife abandoned me (first wife) for a deacon in a church. She is dead now from the results of her sins. I'm remarried now. God has been good to me. When others told me that God would abandon me....... I tell you He didn't. He just keep loving on me.

I look forward to the day that I can meet my first wife again..... fully restored and in perfect perfection in the Resurrection.

Can I ask you how does on choose between the children of Abel and the children of Cain? We fabricate nonsense to justify our hate. Such is the false doctrines of men.

Can you imagine asking Adam and Eve to choose between Abel and Cain?

God is Gracious to all of humanity.

Arminians talk big and then go home and live like they want to. My mother said one time there are Arminians that pretend they finally got saved every few months so they can pretend their sins are gone now.....

 

[Johann]

My argument is NOT that all of us are at this very moment, in the same condition.

MY argument is that it is inevitable.

Even John the Baptist questioned Messiah when he was in prison.

I left my first love when my wife abandoned me (first wife) for a deacon in a church. She is dead now from the results of her sins. I'm remarried now. God has been good to me. When others told me that God would abandon me....... I tell you He didn't. He just keep loving on me.

I look forward to the day that I can meet my first wife again..... fully restored and in perfect perfection in the Resurrection.

Can I ask you how does on choose between the children of Abel and the children of Cain? We fabricate nonsense to justify our hate. Such is the false doctrines of men.

Can you imagine asking Adam and Eve to choose between Abel and Cain?

God is Gracious to all of humanity.

Arminians talk big and then go home and live like they want to. My mother said one time there are Arminians that pretend they finally got saved every few months so they can pretend their sins are gone now.....

Brother-I lost my dear wife a couple years ago and STILL grieving, my son is severely handicapped, cerebral palsied and in need of constant daily care 24/7 and I live of my pension and we could very easily lose everything, I am in a house full of nothing and have to wear the same clothes daily-I think I have more reason to leave my first Love that you and just "live it up" eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die.

ALL I have is Jesus, and His word, the holy Scriptures and the Holy Spirit.

But I won't abandon our Lord-I should have been dead many times over, yet here I am having fellowship with you brother.

You now know more of Johann than many here, all the more reason to keep our eyes upon Christ Jesus and not our circumstances nor what the members are saying.

To be honest, I don't know what a Arminian is-have to look it up and their belief system. Keep your head up and rather encourage the brethren, you can take my advice, sound advice, or forbear.

You don't know a man unless you have walked a mile with him brother.

peace to you and family
Johann.

 

[Aeliana]

I don't believe you. Your pride brought you to her defense. Will you defend Christ like you've defended her? Is He your first thought or your last? Have you left your first love?

Yeah. She is wonderful. I mean she hasn't made a single penny on the Good Name of God to her benefit. I had a website very early on the web called "withoutcharge"

1Co 9:18 What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.

Christ helped you. Give Him the Glory and stop praising those that can benefit you here. Lay up treasures in heaven.

I think it was my love for a fellow sister in Christ that brought me to her defense against the false accusations made by you. Let me ask you a question, is it your pride that wants to tell us about your website?

You're not my teacher so please refrain from telling me what to do. Also mocking people by making statements about them you don't believe "Yeah. She is wonderful" is definitely not what Jesus taught.

 

[Johann]

I think it was my love for a fellow sister in Christ that brought me to her defense against the false accusations made by you. Let me ask you a question, is it your pride that wants to tell us about your website?

You're not my teacher so please refrain from telling me what to do. Also mocking people by making statements about them you don't believe "Yeah. She is wonderful" is definitely not what Jesus taught.

Please remind me not "to have intense moments of fellowship with ya" ya hear? Lol!!
J.