The issue you are not discussing is Christ's Pre-existance
Are you affirming the word personally pre-existed?
BTW the bible nowhere states he pre-existed as Michael
Shema Israel and identifying Jesus as Jehovah/Yahweh
- Thread starter TomL
- Start date
Are you affirming the word personally pre-existed?
BTW the bible nowhere states he pre-existed as Michael
Only ones in darkness do not know that he is Michael. They refuse to believe bible evidence because of 1 single mistranslated letter=G at John 1:1 when g is correct for the Word=god, not God.
Prove to us Fred--That its not Jesus' voice-1Thess 4:16
Prove to us Fred that When Michael stands up for Gods chosen( Dan 12:1) during these last days its not as Gods appointed king.
Prove to us Fred that Rev 6:2 is not the war in Heaven and the birth of Gods kingdom.( both events explained at Rev 12) Michael took that ride, yet gets the crown. Did you miss the fact that its Jesus God appointed as king?
I know you can't prove a word above wrong so why are you laughing?
Prove it, then you can laugh, otherwise your own judgement is in your face and the last laugh will be on you, but it won't be so funny. The bible describes it as weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Prove to us Fred that When Michael stands up for Gods chosen( Dan 12:1) during these last days its not as Gods appointed king.
Prove to us Fred that Rev 6:2 is not the war in Heaven and the birth of Gods kingdom.( both events explained at Rev 12) Michael took that ride, yet gets the crown. Did you miss the fact that its Jesus God appointed as king?
I know you can't prove a word above wrong so why are you laughing?
Prove it, then you can laugh, otherwise your own judgement is in your face and the last laugh will be on you, but it won't be so funny. The bible describes it as weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Sorry, you provided not a shred of proof that Jesus pre-existed as Michael.
But you have contradicted those who deny Christ's pre-existence.
BTW you have no evidence for a mistranslation Multiple biblical examples of theos being translated God exist even in your own translation
Then you show us Who God sent from the OT.
Theos for God only when the true God is spoken of alone in a paragraph. When another is being called god-Theos= god, Ton Theon = God.=FACT of life.
Sorry but you assume Jesus is not a true God and state which is not a rule of the greek but the asumption of your doctrine
BTW seeing as you state he is not a true God, What is he a false God in your religion?
You have 0 explanation of why the true God is called a different Greek word than the Word is-Why? There is only 1 possible reason= God and god. And 0 explanation of why the Word is given the same exact different Greek word than the true God is given at both John 1:1,2Cor 4:4 where satan gets that word and its god. Tell us all WHY? One gets God and another gets god in the same scenario? There has to be a rule for that to be reality. What is it?
Wake up it is not a different word in the Greek
It is the same word (lemma) as you have been told multiple times
Only the place it is used in the sentence determines whether it is spelled theon or theos
Jehovah is routinely called theon or theos
You best wake up while there is time TomL.
You ignored the facts
Wake up it is not a different word in the Greek
It is the same word (lemma) as you have been told multiple times
Only the place it is used in the sentence determines whether it is spelled theon or theos
Jehovah is routinely called theon or theos
Jehovah is called-Theon( God) when another is called Theos( god) in the same paragraph. Many Greek scholars translated it correctly. The trinity religions cannot accept the fact because it exposes them as false religion. I say they know 100% its fact. They would lose billions of dollars a year and get sued by 2 billion humans because they do know its fact and are stealing the money. Its not so easy to give up billions of free dollars that just keep flowing in.
Sorry there is no such rule in Greek. The watchtower has invented this
(MLV2021) {Joh 1:1-18 Jesus’ Deity; see also Php 2:6, Gen 1:26.}
The Word was in the beginning and the Word was with God and the Word was God.
(ACV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
AFV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(AKJV-R) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(ABU_NT) IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(ARV 2005) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(ASV-2014) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(Anderson) IN the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD. was with God, and the WORD was God.
(ANT) in beginning was The Word and The Word was to the god and God was The Word
ASV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(BBE) From the first he was the Word, and the Word was in relation with God and was God.
(VW) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(Bishops) In the begynnyng was the worde, & the worde was with God: and that worde was God.
(CEV) In the beginning was the one who is called the Word. The Word was with God and was truly God.
(CGV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and God was the Word.
(CENT) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(cjb) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(Complete Apostles' Bible) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(CLV) In the beginning was the word, and the word was toward God, and God was the word. "
(CTBible) In the beginning was the Word; and the Word was with God; and the Word was God.
(Mace) In the beginning was the Logos, and the Logos was with God, and the Logos was God.
(Darby) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(Douay-Rheims) D:ModulesIn the beginning was the Word: and the Word was with God: and the Word was God.
(DRB) In the beginning was the Word: and the Word was with God: and the Word was God.
(Diaglott-NT) In a beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the God, and a god was the Word.
(EMTV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(JB2000) ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the God, and the Word was God.
(ERV) Before the world began, the Word was there. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(ESV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(FAA) In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God.
(FBV) In the beginning the Word already was281. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(Geneva) In the beginning was that Word, and that Word was with God, and that Word was God.
(Noyes NT) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(GNB) In the beginning the Word already existed; the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(GDBY_NT) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(GW) In the beginning the Word already existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(csb) In the beginning was the Word; and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(HNC-NT) The Word was in the beginning, and the Word was with God, and the Word is the essence of God.
(ISV) In the beginning, the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(Moffatt NT) THE Logos existed in the very beginning, the Logos was with God, the Logos was divine.
(LITV-TSP) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(WORNT) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(JUB) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the God, and the Word was God.
(KJ2000) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(KJVCNT) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(KJ3) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(BSV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(BSB) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(BSB 1.2) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(EHV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(EWG) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(HBIE) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(HCSB) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
JPS-ASVII) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(Julia) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and God was the Word.
(KJB
CE) IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.(KJV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
LEB) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(LHB) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(LONT) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(LSB) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
MRC) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(MNT) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was face to face with God, and the Word was God.
(MSB1stDraft) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(NAB-A) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(NAS95) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
ETC
The use of Theos or Theon is governed solely on how the word is used in a sentence
Sorry there is no such rule in Greek. The watchtower has invented this
(MLV2021) {Joh 1:1-18 Jesus’ Deity; see also Php 2:6, Gen 1:26.}
The Word was in the beginning and the Word was with God and the Word was God.
(ACV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
AFV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(AKJV-R) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(ABU_NT) IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(ARV 2005) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(ASV-2014) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(Anderson) IN the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD. was with God, and the WORD was God.
(ANT) in beginning was The Word and The Word was to the god and God was The Word
ASV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(BBE) From the first he was the Word, and the Word was in relation with God and was God.
(VW) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(Bishops) In the begynnyng was the worde, & the worde was with God: and that worde was God.
(CEV) In the beginning was the one who is called the Word. The Word was with God and was truly God.
(CGV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and God was the Word.
(CENT) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(cjb) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(Complete Apostles' Bible) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(CLV) In the beginning was the word, and the word was toward God, and God was the word. "
(CTBible) In the beginning was the Word; and the Word was with God; and the Word was God.
(Mace) In the beginning was the Logos, and the Logos was with God, and the Logos was God.
(Darby) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(Douay-Rheims) D:ModulesIn the beginning was the Word: and the Word was with God: and the Word was God.
(DRB) In the beginning was the Word: and the Word was with God: and the Word was God.
(Diaglott-NT) In a beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the God, and a god was the Word.
(EMTV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(JB2000) ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the God, and the Word was God.
(ERV) Before the world began, the Word was there. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(ESV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(FAA) In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God.
(FBV) In the beginning the Word already was281. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(Geneva) In the beginning was that Word, and that Word was with God, and that Word was God.
(Noyes NT) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(GNB) In the beginning the Word already existed; the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(GDBY_NT) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(GW) In the beginning the Word already existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(csb) In the beginning was the Word; and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(HNC-NT) The Word was in the beginning, and the Word was with God, and the Word is the essence of God.
(ISV) In the beginning, the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(Moffatt NT) THE Logos existed in the very beginning, the Logos was with God, the Logos was divine.
(LITV-TSP) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(WORNT) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(JUB) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the God, and the Word was God.
(KJ2000) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(KJVCNT) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(KJ3) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(BSV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(BSB) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(BSB 1.2) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(EHV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(EWG) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(HBIE) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(HCSB) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
JPS-ASVII) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(Julia) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and God was the Word.
(KJB
CE) IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.(KJV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
LEB) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(LHB) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(LONT) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(LSB) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
MRC) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(MNT) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was face to face with God, and the Word was God.
(MSB1stDraft) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(NAB-A) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(NAS95) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
ETC
The use of Theos or Theon is governed solely on how the word is used in a sentence
John 1:1–3 (LEB) — 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 This one was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through him, and apart from him not one thing came into being that has come into being.
Context clearly points to in the beginning- creation
Seeing as all this came into being - creation was through the son
The son was not a part of that creation
Outside of all creation we are left only with God
The word was indeed God
God is trying to show you now what is reality. Soon he will show the whole world.Sorry there is no such rule in Greek. The watchtower has invented this
(MLV2021) {Joh 1:1-18 Jesus’ Deity; see also Php 2:6, Gen 1:26.}
The Word was in the beginning and the Word was with God and the Word was God.
(ACV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
AFV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(AKJV-R) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(ABU_NT) IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(ARV 2005) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(ASV-2014) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(Anderson) IN the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD. was with God, and the WORD was God.
(ANT) in beginning was The Word and The Word was to the god and God was The Word
ASV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(BBE) From the first he was the Word, and the Word was in relation with God and was God.
(VW) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(Bishops) In the begynnyng was the worde, & the worde was with God: and that worde was God.
(CEV) In the beginning was the one who is called the Word. The Word was with God and was truly God.
(CGV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and God was the Word.
(CENT) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(cjb) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(Complete Apostles' Bible) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(CLV) In the beginning was the word, and the word was toward God, and God was the word. "
(CTBible) In the beginning was the Word; and the Word was with God; and the Word was God.
(Mace) In the beginning was the Logos, and the Logos was with God, and the Logos was God.
(Darby) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(Douay-Rheims) D:ModulesIn the beginning was the Word: and the Word was with God: and the Word was God.
(DRB) In the beginning was the Word: and the Word was with God: and the Word was God.
(Diaglott-NT) In a beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the God, and a god was the Word.
(EMTV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(JB2000) ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the God, and the Word was God.
(ERV) Before the world began, the Word was there. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(ESV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(FAA) In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God.
(FBV) In the beginning the Word already was281. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(Geneva) In the beginning was that Word, and that Word was with God, and that Word was God.
(Noyes NT) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(GNB) In the beginning the Word already existed; the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(GDBY_NT) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(GW) In the beginning the Word already existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(csb) In the beginning was the Word; and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(HNC-NT) The Word was in the beginning, and the Word was with God, and the Word is the essence of God.
(ISV) In the beginning, the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(Moffatt NT) THE Logos existed in the very beginning, the Logos was with God, the Logos was divine.
(LITV-TSP) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(WORNT) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(JUB) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the God, and the Word was God.
(KJ2000) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(KJVCNT) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(KJ3) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(BSV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(BSB) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(BSB 1.2) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(EHV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(EWG) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(HBIE) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(HCSB) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
JPS-ASVII) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(Julia) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and God was the Word.
(KJB
(KJV) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
LEB) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(LHB) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(LONT) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(LSB) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
MRC) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(MNT) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was face to face with God, and the Word was God.
(MSB1stDraft) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(NAB-A) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
(NAS95) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
ETC
The use of Theos or Theon is governed solely on how the word is used in a sentence
Sorry but your translation is absurd
We have the word who existed with God before anything was created.
The word pre-existed all creation for everything that came into being came into being through him.
Before a single thing was created your theology has the God and a god
Two uncreated beings in a polytheist relationship.
The God through a god created all things
Absurd
Satan infiltrated after Jesus and the apostles were dead. Catholicism ( 2Thess 2:3) rose up and screwed it all up. Thus all using the altered translations( catholicism translating) rely on their errors and are putting their eternal life on those errors. They will all lose. God fixed it in these last days=The New world translation-- you can take it to the bank.
John 1:1–3 (LEB) — 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 This one was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through him, and apart from him not one thing came into being that has come into being.
John 1:1–3 is a profound theological statement that has deep implications concerning Christ.
- Christ’s Eternal Nature – The passage begins with "In the beginning was the Word." This echoes Genesis 1:1, showing that Christ (the Word) existed before creation. This means He is eternal and not a created being.
- Christ’s Relationship with God – "The Word was with God." This phrase indicates a personal distinction between Christ and God the Father, yet an intimate relationship. It shows that Christ has always existed alongside God.
- Christ’s Divinity – "The Word was God." This is one of the clearest declarations of Christ’s divine nature. He is fully God, not just a representative or prophet—He shares the very essence of God.
- Christ’s Role in Creation – "All things came into being through Him." This makes it clear that Christ was the active force in creation. He is not just present at the beginning—He is the Creator. Everything that exists owes its existence to Him.
- Christ’s Authority and Power – Since all things were created through Him and nothing exists apart from Him, Christ holds absolute authority over creation. This reinforces His sovereignty over the universe and His ability to redeem and restore it.
Point # 1 refutes your theology by itself
All things came into being through Christ, so he is not a part of creation.
All that existed before creation is God and eternal. There is but one God that can exist before creation.
Christ must not be a god which would an affirmation of polytheism but he must be God in the same sense as the God he is stated to be with
dwight92070
Well-known member
You are one confused puppy.
dwight92070
Well-known member
Oh the Jehovah's Witness scam translation.
In error translations has God to the Word when god is correct, another simple proof= the second line at John 1:1, in simple trinity English it reads--And God( Word) was with God--is that not more than 1 God?
