The Divinity of Jesus Christ

[Darby]

Jesus Christ is God; this is proved:
1. By the utterances of the prophets.
2. By the testimony of His heavenly Father.
3. By His own testimony.
4. By the teaching of the apostles.
5. By the teaching of the early Church.

The prophets repeatedly declared that the future Redeemer would be God.

Isaias calls Him Emmanuel, “God with us” (7:14), and says: “God Himself will come and will save you”.

Daniel speaks of Him as “the Saint of saints,” and Jeremiah says this about who Jesus is.


In His days Judah shall be saved and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is His name by which He shall be called: The Lord Our Righteousness.
Jeremiah 23:6

When Christ speaks of Himself as Son of God, it is not in the pagan sense of representing Himself as one of the gods (as Caligula, Heliogabalus, and others did), nor is it in the pantheistic sense of describing Himself as a manifestation of God, nor in the general sense in which every just man may be called a child of God. Our Saviour described Himself as the only-begotten Son of God, being one with the Father.

Both Titus 2:13 and 2 Peter 1:1 feature the same pattern, whereby “God” and “Savior” are used to describe Jesus.

13 Awaiting and looking for the [fulfillment, the realization of our] blessed hope, even the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Christ Jesus (the Messiah, the Anointed One), Titus 2:13.

SIMON PETER, a servant and apostle (special messenger) of Jesus Christ, to those who have received (obtained an equal privilege of) like precious faith with ourselves in and through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ: 2 Peter 1:1.

 

[civic]

Amen

 

[360watt]

The way Jesus also forgave sin, is a big part of this.

He didn't just forgive someone who offended him directly, but forgave someone who had offended someone else.

I could do that in not holding a grudge, but I couldn't actually remove the sin of that offending person. Jesus has that power over sin itself.

 

[e v e]

Christ is the son of God and deity and a Being. and leader of all the sons who will rule with him in eden soon, again.

deity = the type of nature of God, the nature which has His signature upon it.

His nature is not the type of nature we find in nature magazine, as the type of nature on this earth.

 

[e v e]

this earth and body = sin nature.

where we are since after the fall.

this very physicality.

 

[Mary]

Jesus Christ is God; this is proved:
1. By the utterances of the prophets.
2. By the testimony of His heavenly Father.
3. By His own testimony.
4. By the teaching of the apostles.
5. By the teaching of the early Church.

The prophets repeatedly declared that the future Redeemer would be God.

Isaias calls Him Emmanuel, “God with us” (7:14), and says: “God Himself will come and will save you”.

Daniel speaks of Him as “the Saint of saints,” and Jeremiah says this about who Jesus is.


In His days Judah shall be saved and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is His name by which He shall be called: The Lord Our Righteousness.
Jeremiah 23:6

When Christ speaks of Himself as Son of God, it is not in the pagan sense of representing Himself as one of the gods (as Caligula, Heliogabalus, and others did), nor is it in the pantheistic sense of describing Himself as a manifestation of God, nor in the general sense in which every just man may be called a child of God. Our Saviour described Himself as the only-begotten Son of God, being one with the Father.

Both Titus 2:13 and 2 Peter 1:1 feature the same pattern, whereby “God” and “Savior” are used to describe Jesus.

13 Awaiting and looking for the [fulfillment, the realization of our] blessed hope, even the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Christ Jesus (the Messiah, the Anointed One), Titus 2:13.

SIMON PETER, a servant and apostle (special messenger) of Jesus Christ, to those who have received (obtained an equal privilege of) like precious faith with ourselves in and through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ: 2 Peter 1:1.

Hi hope you are well


Your points are noted – how would you counter the following;

• Isaiah 7:14 (RSV) - 14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, a young woman shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Imman′u-el
• [a)so it’s a young women not virgin. B) A lot of biblical scholars now suggest this relates to Isaiah’s 2 or 3 child. C) Immanuel is translated as **God is with us** in itself does prove anything as many others have similar names "Gabriel" means "Strong God" or "Mighty God" d) no one ever called Jesus this, why would he shout “My God! My God why have you forsaken me?” if God was with him. E) HIS NAME shall be Immanuel – not that he will be Immanuel
• What passages relate to the 5 points that you have raised prove Jesus’s deity?

 

[TibiasDad]

Hi hope you are well


Your points are noted – how would you counter the following;

• Isaiah 7:14 (RSV) - 14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, a young woman shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Imman′u-el
• [a)so it’s a young women not virgin. B) A lot of biblical scholars now suggest this relates to Isaiah’s 2 or 3 child. C) Immanuel is translated as **God is with us** in itself does prove anything as many others have similar names "Gabriel" means "Strong God" or "Mighty God" d) no one ever called Jesus this, why would he shout “My God! My God why have you forsaken me?” if God was with him. E) HIS NAME shall be Immanuel – not that he will be Immanuel
• What passages relate to the 5 points that you have raised prove Jesus’s deity?

Barnes’ Notes
(Emphasis mine)

A virgin - This word properly means a girl, maiden, virgin, a young woman who is unmarried, and who is of marriageable age. The word עלמה ‛almâh, is derived from the verb עלם ‛âlam, "to conceal, to hide, to cover." The word עלם ‛elem, from the same verb, is applied to a "young man," in 1 Samuel 17:56; 1 Samuel 20:22. The word here translated a virgin, is applied to Rebekah Genesis 24:43, and to Miriam, the sister of Moses, Exodus 2:8. It occurs in only seven places in the Old Testament. Besides those already mentioned, it is found in Psalm 68:25; Sol 1:3; Sol 6:8; and Proverbs 30:19. In all these places, except, perhaps, in Proverbs, it is used in its obvious natural sense, to denote a young, unmarried female. In the Syriac, the word alĕm, means to grow up, juvenis factus est; juvenescere fecited. Hence, the derivatives are applied to youth; to young men; to young women - to those who "are growing up," and becoming youths.

The etymology of the word requires us to suppose that it means one who is growing up to a marriageable state, or to the age of puberty. The word maiden, or virgin, expresses the correct idea. Hengstenberg contends, that it means one "in the unmarried state;" Gesenius, that it means simply the being of marriageable age, the age of puberty. The Hebrews usually employed the word בתולה bethûlâh, to denote a pure virgin (a word which the Syriac translation uses here); but the word here evidently denotes one who was "then" unmarried; and though its primary idea is that of one who is growing up, or in a marriageable state, yet the whole connection requires us to understand it of one who was "not then married," and who was, therefore, regarded and designated as a virgin. The Vulgate renders it 'virgo.' The Septuagint, ἡ παρθένος hē parthenos, "a virgin" - a word which they use as a translation of the Hebrew בתולה bethûlâh in Exodus 22:16-17; Leviticus 21:3, Leviticus 21:14; Deuteronomy 22:19, Deuteronomy 22:23, Deuteronomy 22:28; Deuteronomy 32:25; Judges 19:24; Judges 21:12; and in thirty-three other places (see Trommius' Concordance); of נערה na‛ărâh, a girl, in Genesis 24:14, Genesis 24:16, Genesis 24:55; Genesis 34:3 (twice); 1 Kings 1:2; and of עלמה ‛almâh, only in Genesis 24:43; and in Isaiah 7:14.

The word, in the view of the Septuagint translators, therefore conveyed the proper idea of a virgin. The Chaldee uses substantially the same word as the Hebrew. The idea of a "virgin" is, therefore, the most obvious and natural idea in the use of this word. It does not, however, imply that the person spoken of should be a virgin "when the child" should be born; or that she should ever after be a virgin. It means simply that one who was "then" a virgin, but who was of marriageable age, should conceive, and bear a son. Whether she was "to be" a virgin "at the time" when the child was born, or was to remain such afterward, are inquiries which cannot be determined by a philological examination of the word. It is evident also, that the word is not opposed to "either" of these ideas. "Why" the name which is thus given to an unmarried woman was derived from the verb to "hide, to conceal," is not agreed among lexicographers. The more probable opinion is, that it was because to the time of marriage, the daughter was supposed to be hidden or concealed in the family of the parents; she was kept shut up, as it were, in the paternal dwelling. This idea is given by Jerome, who says, 'the name is given to a virgin because she is said to be hidden or secret; because she does not expose herself to the gaze of men, but is kept with great care under the custody of parents.' The sum of the inquiry here, into the meaning of the word translated "virgin," is, that it does not differ from that word as used by us. The expression means no more than that one who was then a virgin should have a son, and that this should be a sign to Ahaz.


Doug

 

[Mary]

Barnes’ Notes
(Emphasis mine)

A virgin - This word properly means a girl, maiden, virgin, a young woman who is unmarried, and who is of marriageable age. The word עלמה ‛almâh, is derived from the verb עלם ‛âlam, "to conceal, to hide, to cover." The word עלם ‛elem, from the same verb, is applied to a "young man," in 1 Samuel 17:56; 1 Samuel 20:22. The word here translated a virgin, is applied to Rebekah Genesis 24:43, and to Miriam, the sister of Moses, Exodus 2:8. It occurs in only seven places in the Old Testament. Besides those already mentioned, it is found in Psalm 68:25; Sol 1:3; Sol 6:8; and Proverbs 30:19. In all these places, except, perhaps, in Proverbs, it is used in its obvious natural sense, to denote a young, unmarried female. In the Syriac, the word alĕm, means to grow up, juvenis factus est; juvenescere fecited. Hence, the derivatives are applied to youth; to young men; to young women - to those who "are growing up," and becoming youths.

The etymology of the word requires us to suppose that it means one who is growing up to a marriageable state, or to the age of puberty. The word maiden, or virgin, expresses the correct idea. Hengstenberg contends, that it means one "in the unmarried state;" Gesenius, that it means simply the being of marriageable age, the age of puberty. The Hebrews usually employed the word בתולה bethûlâh, to denote a pure virgin (a word which the Syriac translation uses here); but the word here evidently denotes one who was "then" unmarried; and though its primary idea is that of one who is growing up, or in a marriageable state, yet the whole connection requires us to understand it of one who was "not then married," and who was, therefore, regarded and designated as a virgin. The Vulgate renders it 'virgo.' The Septuagint, ἡ παρθένος hē parthenos, "a virgin" - a word which they use as a translation of the Hebrew בתולה bethûlâh in Exodus 22:16-17; Leviticus 21:3, Leviticus 21:14; Deuteronomy 22:19, Deuteronomy 22:23, Deuteronomy 22:28; Deuteronomy 32:25; Judges 19:24; Judges 21:12; and in thirty-three other places (see Trommius' Concordance); of נערה na‛ărâh, a girl, in Genesis 24:14, Genesis 24:16, Genesis 24:55; Genesis 34:3 (twice); 1 Kings 1:2; and of עלמה ‛almâh, only in Genesis 24:43; and in Isaiah 7:14.

The word, in the view of the Septuagint translators, therefore conveyed the proper idea of a virgin. The Chaldee uses substantially the same word as the Hebrew. The idea of a "virgin" is, therefore, the most obvious and natural idea in the use of this word. It does not, however, imply that the person spoken of should be a virgin "when the child" should be born; or that she should ever after be a virgin. It means simply that one who was "then" a virgin, but who was of marriageable age, should conceive, and bear a son. Whether she was "to be" a virgin "at the time" when the child was born, or was to remain such afterward, are inquiries which cannot be determined by a philological examination of the word. It is evident also, that the word is not opposed to "either" of these ideas. "Why" the name which is thus given to an unmarried woman was derived from the verb to "hide, to conceal," is not agreed among lexicographers. The more probable opinion is, that it was because to the time of marriage, the daughter was supposed to be hidden or concealed in the family of the parents; she was kept shut up, as it were, in the paternal dwelling. This idea is given by Jerome, who says, 'the name is given to a virgin because she is said to be hidden or secret; because she does not expose herself to the gaze of men, but is kept with great care under the custody of parents.' The sum of the inquiry here, into the meaning of the word translated "virgin," is, that it does not differ from that word as used by us. The expression means no more than that one who was then a virgin should have a son, and that this should be a sign to Ahaz.


Doug

Hi Thanks for your response.

Linguistically, the Hebrew word almah translates to "young woman" or "maiden" – referring to young woman of marriageable age, virgin is betulah.

But for argument sack even if we were to accept this;

*Jesus was never called Immanuel by anyone, anywhere in the entire Bible – which was a prophesy.

*when read in context, the birth and naming of the child Immanuel was to be a sign for king Ahaz that God was with his people who were about to be invaded by two rival kingdoms (Isa 7:10-16).

*HIS NAME shall be Immanuel – not that he will be Immanuel

*What passages relate to the 5 points that you have raised prove Jesus’s deity?

 

[TibiasDad]

Linguistically, the Hebrew word almah translates to "young woman" or "maiden" – referring to young woman of marriageable age, virgin is betulah.

You’re cutting your nose off despite your face; young maidens of marriageable age are, especially in Biblical times, virgins as to sexual activity. Any exceptions would require specification as to why virginity is not possible.


Doug

 

[Mary]

You’re cutting your nose off despite your face; young maidens of marriageable age are, especially in Biblical times, virgins as to sexual activity. Any exceptions would require specification as to why virginity is not possible.


Doug

Didn’t say virginity is not possible, pointing out the meaning of the word - implies young women

 

[TibiasDad]

Didn’t say virginity is not possible, pointing out the meaning of the word - implies young women

The exception to the rule, hermeneutically speaking, needs to be specified. The entire point is that the Messiah is not of human origin, but divine. A young woman, in biblical times, is a virgin who is of marriageable age, usually early teens.


Doug

 

[Mary]

The exception to the rule, hermeneutically speaking, needs to be specified. The entire point is that the Messiah is not of human origin, but divine. A young woman, in biblical times, is a virgin who is of marriageable age, usually early teens.


Doug

Tamar (2 Samuel 13) - is called betulah (virgin). Also what good would a sign concerning Christ would have done for King Ahaz who lived 700 years before – just not logical. Isaiah 8:1–4 tells of a son Maher-shalal-hash-baz as a sign to Judah – some say linked to Isaiah and his wife.

Where does it say the Messiah is not of human origin?

 

[TibiasDad]

Tamar (2 Samuel 13) - is called betulah (virgin).

She was a virgin, until Amnon raped her! Afterwards, she lived in disgrace with Absalom.

Also what good would a sign concerning Christ would have done for King Ahaz who lived 700 years before – just not logical. Isaiah 8:1–4 tells of a son Maher-shalal-hash-baz as a sign to Judah – some say linked to Isaiah and his wife.

The prophecy had a twofold meaning; one in the immediate context and Matthew cites it as referring to the birth of Christ. Mary was a sexual virgin, as she herself said, ”How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?” The literal Greek says “since a man I have not known”. She was a virgin in the purest sense of the word.

Where does it say the Messiah is not of human origin?

“God with us” cannot be human in origin! He is not born of human sexuality through Joseph, ie, human origin.

Doug

 

[e v e]

The way Jesus also forgave sin, is a big part of this.

He didn't just forgive someone who offended him directly, but forgave someone who had offended someone else.

I could do that in not holding a grudge, but I couldn't actually remove the sin of that offending person. Jesus has that power over sin itself.

Christ forgave sins on this earth
and let's not leave itas
Christ being a kind man
for doing that.

since, we no longer know what a man is ...
or forgiveness
or what a man was before the fall
nor what our land was
nor what power over sin is

the fall was that bad that
we were totally compromised.
deprived of our home,
in a foreign land,
separated from each other and God,
and, even becoming unaware
of this,
and over time naturalizing to the
heathen nations.

adam utterly betrayed God.
and harmed all of us.

God was not being kind ,
as a zenith of His attention,
to forgive us , who are
adams collateral damage,
who are constantly, deviously
bullied into misunderstanding Him
via tricky religious bait and
switch of terms ..
yt also is full of that wreckage.

it's a huge thing He forgives us.
and wants us back,
His sons and daughters.
it means we can return to our home,
to God, to each other.
for real. not mentally.
to be with Him
walking in the garden.
to celebrate at our feast
in heaven soon
with Him .

yeah
because that adoption thing
is untrue. an added corrupted text.
therefore no such thing as a gentile. purely
an evil invented flesh concept ,
for we are npsh eden souls.

that's the pedigree.

so no on adopted 'creatures'.
adam was given dominion
over creatures! yet here we are ...
in flesh subject to it.
what a low blow.

but what has satan not corrupted?

not only God forgives us
but the sons will be restored
and rule paradise with Christ.
Christ made that possible
at all
at the cross.

the magnitude of this is
that sin will be undone soon
as a concept
we live under.
as toil and suffering.
that s what He made possible
at the cross , our being saved

and soon this will be de facto ,
real,
from now on , and for ever.
as in time rewinding,
as in we will be restored to His
side.

this earth, this sky and its 12 zodiac evil mess,
this cosmos ,
this sin nature,
this flesh,
will not be remembered again.

Christ was there .
before the old testament,
before the fall!,
after the fall, and He came upon this earth
which he took a huge step down
to do, by incarnating .
to this foreign land.

moses , the prophets,
met christ. followed Him.
every one of His souls
has , since after the fall.

He has been helping us all to return to Him
by His every action ever since
we left our eden.

after that
other traditions and 'law'
have been there, on this current earth
claiming to be His,
threatening hell,
inquisition etc.

Christ,
our deity has been with us
since Before the fall.
the deity of the prophets and saints
of previous generations and times
and the OT...
our Majesty.

 

[e v e]

Tamar (2 Samuel 13) - is called betulah (virgin). Also what good would a sign concerning Christ would have done for King Ahaz who lived 700 years before – just not logical. Isaiah 8:1–4 tells of a son Maher-shalal-hash-baz as a sign to Judah – some say linked to Isaiah and his wife.

Where does it say the Messiah is not of human origin?

certainly the flesh body christ had to step down into

was human. what a step down!

of course, human in the context of flesh on this earth.

which is not the same as what is meant by a man
in the other reality where eden is,
which was not on this earth
.. for we have access to this earth
but were barred from our land
when adam betrayed God

which is the meaning of rapture..
to be returned to our original nature,
our land, our God, and each other

finally. soon.

 

[e v e]

Jesus Christ is God; this is proved:
1. By the utterances of the prophets.
2. By the testimony of His heavenly Father.
3. By His own testimony.
4. By the teaching of the apostles.
5. By the teaching of the early Church.

The prophets repeatedly declared that the future Redeemer would be God.

Isaias calls Him Emmanuel, “God with us” (7:14), and says: “God Himself will come and will save you”.

Daniel speaks of Him as “the Saint of saints,” and Jeremiah says this about who Jesus is.


In His days Judah shall be saved and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is His name by which He shall be called: The Lord Our Righteousness.
Jeremiah 23:6

When Christ speaks of Himself as Son of God, it is not in the pagan sense of representing Himself as one of the gods (as Caligula, Heliogabalus, and others did), nor is it in the pantheistic sense of describing Himself as a manifestation of God, nor in the general sense in which every just man may be called a child of God. Our Saviour described Himself as the only-begotten Son of God, being one with the Father.

Both Titus 2:13 and 2 Peter 1:1 feature the same pattern, whereby “God” and “Savior” are used to describe Jesus.

13 Awaiting and looking for the [fulfillment, the realization of our] blessed hope, even the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Christ Jesus (the Messiah, the Anointed One), Titus 2:13.

SIMON PETER, a servant and apostle (special messenger) of Jesus Christ, to those who have received (obtained an equal privilege of) like precious faith with ourselves in and through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ: 2 Peter 1:1.

but do realize that darby presented a dystopian wrong version of rapture (the Change)

when he poses that much of jacob is not saved
and only the small remnant returns to eden

what a brutally ugly mindset he had.
most likely confusing adam with God...
a harsh bait and switch.
right there with augustine
... what a mess.

 

[Mary]

She was a virgin, until Amnon raped her! Afterwards, she lived in disgrace with Absalom.


The prophecy had a twofold meaning; one in the immediate context and Matthew cites it as referring to the birth of Christ. Mary was a sexual virgin, as she herself said, ”How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?” The literal Greek says “since a man I have not known”. She was a virgin in the purest sense of the word.






“God with us” cannot be human in origin! He is not born of human sexuality through Joseph, ie, human origin.

Doug

I was making the point the word betulah is virgin – not asking what happened to her

Never stated Mary was not a virgin – two fold nope

I didn’t say “God with us” is human. I asked where it says Messiah is not human? Messiah is another word for messenger, prophet etc…



How many in ‘us’?

 

[Mary]

certainly the flesh body christ had to step down into

was human. what a step down!

of course, human in the context of flesh on this earth.

which is not the same as what is meant by a man
in the other reality where eden is,
which was not on this earth
.. for we have access to this earth
but were barred from our land
when adam betrayed God

which is the meaning of rapture..
to be returned to our original nature,
our land, our God, and each other

finally. soon.

Not sure if I understand - I asked passage where it says Messiah is not human? Messiah is another word for messenger, prophet etc…

 

[TibiasDad]

I didn’t say “God with us” is human. I asked where it says Messiah is not human?

I didn’t say he wasn’t human, I said that the Messiah is not of human origin, ie, the human being Joseph is not the cause of Mary’s impregnation.

Doug

 

[e v e]

Not sure if I understand - I asked passage where it says Messiah is not human? Messiah is another word for messenger, prophet etc…

terms.

Christ is not a prophet and not a fallen type flesh human like you and me but incarnated here on purpose - as a huge step Down! - to help us escape this dungeon which may as well be tartarus.

As God's actual son He did bring a message from His father who is one with God's Spirit and with Christ. They are three gorgeous Beings. And yes Jesus did talk to His father and to God's spirit during His trials on earth. Calling Him just a messenger would be a downgrade of who He is, our deity.

Christ and God's feminine spirit are with our Father, in an inseparable way , as His hands, as His soul and heart. we are made in Their image. augustines platonic pagan plotinian mystery babylon version of trinity was transmitted by augustine who has made possible the harsh modern versions. in reality Christ is our deity and will lead all the sons back to eden paradise who will rule with Him, thus replacing adam whose dominion will end for ever.

other terms

messenger

whether a messenger is a physical human or an angel has to he determined by context. nothing of christ places Him as simply a messenger.

a prophet is any soul of Him who can hear Him and to whom He gives a specific job.

example - His souls who are the remnant or moses a christian who was raptured up.

at the moment 99.9% of yt preachers and end time sorcery infused pastors who are deluding jacob are not going to meet Christ on the clouds and are causing jacob to be left behind.

yes. jacob, because of them will be left behind .

modern christianity in all its various sects is antichrist. which means against Christ. they are spelled and working for mystery babylon. drunk on wine.

not saying they want to be. neither saying jacob will go to 'hell'. just stating that they are antichrist .
may that change during trib.

term, messiah,

due to qabalah judaism, i really never use that term. not that it could not be properly explained okay. just that messiah and messenger are not, in context of God, synonymous . and not focused to earthly kingdoms or earthly rule or temples on this earth.

Christ was there in the OT and eden. His people were and are christians since before time.

Hear Him.